Shamrock Rovers Tallaght

[Erstwhile Bóz]

The GAA are trying to have their cake and eat it. By all means campaign to get additional funding for GAA grounds, but given they won't let anyone on their patch, what right have they to interfere in someone elses?
Do Rovers own Tallaght now? Apart from the facts that the GAA are indeed letting people on their patch and two wrongs don't make a right.

[BohsPartisan]

Do Rovers own Tallaght now? Apart from the facts that the GAA are indeed letting people on their patch and two wrongs don't make a right.

OK so they won't mind Rovers using Thomas Davis's pitch?

[John83]

But the GAA Central Council and in certain situations Congress (both presumably the Grand Council of Wizards :D in question) are the equivalents of "my local soccer club" and "owners of Lansdowne" here. Presumably there are some procedures the owners of Lansdowne/the top bods at your football club follow when deciding on the use of their property.
For Croker, certainly, it's entirely reasonable that they'd need a high level decision, but for my local GAA club, not so much. That's where I was going with the "my local soccer club" reference.

[Erstwhile Bóz]

OK so they won't mind Rovers using Thomas Davis's pitch?
Maybe Rovers should ask them for the crack.

[GavinZac]

Do Rovers own Tallaght now?No, the government do not straight out pay for association football pitches for clubs in Ireland, unlike their stance for the GAA. Strange, considering football (the real one, not the shoddy thrown-together code conceived by the GAA to be different) is the largest participation sport in Ireland.

[Erstwhile Bóz]

For Croker, certainly, it's entirely reasonable that they'd need a high level decision, but for my local GAA club, not so much. That's where I was going with the "my local soccer club" reference.
Would the local soccer pitch be the property of the FAI in the same way as a club pitch is "of" the GAA, though?

What are the procedures, if I am a homeless GAA club, for renting out the local soccer club? Can the groundsman let us in? Who re-paints the pitch?

[Erstwhile Bóz]

No, the government do not straight out pay for association football pitches for clubs in Ireland, unlike their stance for the GAA.
Sorry. I thought you were comparing the provision of a stadium free of charge to the massive, world-famous, best-supported, more-hoops-than-Celtic Shamrock Rovers Professional Football Club to a grant for the removal of jagged rocks from the surface of the mountainside pitch of Tóin Fhuar an Chnoic CLG of Ballytroordinnadeague.

[GavinZac]

Sorry. I thought you were comparing the provision of a stadium free of charge to the massive, world-famous, best-supported, more-hoops-than-Celtic Shamrock Rovers Professional Football Club to a grant for the removal of jagged rocks from the surface of the mountainside pitch of Tóin Fhuar an Chnoic CLG of Ballytroordinnadeague.
You just couldnt leave the 'rivalry' aside for a moment, could you.

[Erstwhile Bóz]

You just couldnt leave the 'rivalry' aside for a moment, could you.
;)

I'm fairly pleased with myself that I actually stepped back and looked at the case on its merits and despite my fondness for Gah and my lack of fondness for Rovers I'm on ... I'm up for ... I want ... gnnn ... I'm not on the GAA's side in this row.

[galwayhoop]

No, the government do not straight out pay for association football pitches for clubs in Ireland, unlike their stance for the GAA. Strange, considering football (the real one, not the shoddy thrown-together code conceived by the GAA to be different) is the largest participation sport in Ireland.

and therein lies another question:
why are the FAI unable to garner political backing / funding for their projects in the same way that the GAA are?
are the government also bigots?
or, are the people who run soccer in this country just a tad incompetitent at organising anything!
do more GAA supporters actually use their vote and therefore politicans answer their demands more readily than the higher participation sport of soccer?
have the GAA shown themselves tobe more capable at managing funds in the past?
i would bet a few quid that you would have to visit a fair amount of the parishs of this great country to find a GAA club who have been homeless for 20 YEARS, nevermind the most successiful club that the country has ever produced!

Fact is that soccer in this country is pure and utter nickle and dime and will remain so while those who support it claim to be on the receiving end of prejudice. get the finger out and apply for a grant or better still canvass your local catchment for finances to up the standards on and off the pitch before you go blaming other sports for not allowing you play in their stadiums!

on the municiple stadium question you just have to read the posts in the ireland fans forum to see how happy people are with their placing in the stands at croker and it's distance form the action!

however here's galway city as an example - and i'm just using professional/inter-county venues and no local club pitches of which there are loads - both soccer & GAA:

pearse stadium: GAA
terryland park: soccer / association football / real football :confused:
glenania: rugby (galwegians RFC)
sportsgrounds: rugby (connacht rugby) / greyhound racing

yes the logical thing to do would be to sell all grounds and build a municiple stadium. soccer on friday, rugby on sat, GAA on sunday and the dogs can go after all matches. the combined value of all of these stadia would be over €150m euro (glenia was up for sale by tender last week with an AMV of €25m and would be located in the least central / valuable of the 4 grounds).

the main problem with it would be that soccer fans will be too far from the pitch (if pitch meets GAA standards), greyhound track won't fit around a GAA pitch ... etc. but these could be overcome by removable pitches as was proposed at eircom park. i totally agree with the logical solution of municipal stadiums but the organisations involved would not, unfortunately! and thats not just the GAA.

[Erstwhile Bóz]

the main problem with it would be that soccer fans will be too far from the pitch (if pitch meets GAA standards),

Easily overcome. Each club keeps an élite squad of eight-foot-tall football players for use on the Gaelic pitches and an élite squad of five-foot-tall gaelic players for use on the soccer pitches. Supporters will never know the difference.

[OneRedArmy]

Galwayhoop as for the impartiality of Government and the public services, why have the Revenue not investigated the widespread under the table cash payments to players and managers in club and county GAA in the same manner they have investigated similar in the EL?

As Bertie would say, the dogs on the street know its going on but its like the elephant in the room that nobody associated with the GAA will talk about.

[galwayhoop]

Galwayhoop as for the impartiality of Government and the public services, why have the Revenue not investigated the widespread under the table cash payments to players and managers in club and county GAA in the same manner they have investigated similar in the EL?

As Bertie would say, the dogs on the street know its going on but its like the elephant in the room that nobody associated with the GAA will talk about.

can't answer that but if you know of cases then by all means name and shame. under the table payments to sportsmen in every sport in the country is rife. have the revenue taken a hard line with soccer? or is it just Shels whose lies were so blatent that they had to be investigated or it would have been a total farce. are shels the only club paying under the counter payments?

i am not on here to say that everything GAA is good and everything that is not is bad. merely putting forward the side that is being pillared on the forum

[khoop]

For all those undecided as to whether it actually makes PHYSICAL sense to have a full-sized GAA pitch in Tallaght Stadium - leaving out any other arguments for a moment - just watch the Ireland v Wales game. You will note the huge expanse around the edge of the soccer pitch. A space that could easily be used to build an average size housing estate.

That should end that argument. It simply doesn't make sense to have GAA and soccer LONG TERM in the same stadium. In fact it's ludicrous. The two pitch sizes aren't remotely compatible.

Croke Park is a different matter. Pitch-wise, it's a very unsatisfactory solution - but it's only a very temporary SHORT TERM solution, made more bearable by the fact that all the soccer games there should be close to sell-out.

However in Tallaght Stadium, for the sake of having the possibility of playing an occasional GAA game there, Shamrock Rovers are expected to play EVERY home game out in the middle of a vast empty expanse - miles away from the crowd. With half of the originally-planned spectator facilities left unbuilt to make room for the GAA pitch.

A farcical situation - pure and simple.

John O'Donoghue is NOT anti GAA and never has been. He simply wants to build a stadium which prioritises soccer (and rugby). A stadium built to soccer (and rugby) specifications.

What he is clearly saying to the GAA is "Listen guys..... we gave you huge financial help with Croke Park..... you got further millions upon millions in grants for the excellent stadiums and clubhouses springing up all over the country..... we are giving you money to pay your players..... you will continue to receive generous financial help in the future..... but this one is for soccer. YOU CAN'T HAVE EVERYTHING."

[wws]

For all those undecided as to whether it actually makes PHYSICAL sense to have a full-sized GAA pitch in Tallaght Stadium - leaving out any other arguments for a moment - just watch the Ireland v Wales game. You will note the huge expanse around the edge of the soccer pitch. A space that could easily be used to build an average size housing estate.

That should end that argument. It simply doesn't make sense to have GAA and soccer LONG TERM in the same stadium. In fact it's ludicrous. The two pitch sizes aren't remotely compatible.

Croke Park is a different matter. Pitch-wise, it's a very unsatisfactory solution - but it's only a very temporary SHORT TERM solution, made more bearable by the fact that all the soccer games there should be close to sell-out.

However in Tallaght Stadium, for the sake of having the possibility of playing an occasional GAA game there, Shamrock Rovers are expected to play EVERY home game out in the middle of a vast empty expanse - miles away from the crowd. With half of the originally-planned spectator facilities left unbuilt to make room for the GAA pitch.

A farcical situation - pure and simple.

John O'Donoghue is NOT anti GAA and never has been. He simply wants to build a stadium which prioritises soccer (and rugby). A stadium built to soccer (and rugby) specifications.

What he is clearly saying to the GAA is "Listen guys..... we gave you huge financial help with Croke Park..... you got further millions upon millions in grants for the excellent stadiums and clubhouses springing up all over the country..... we are giving you money to pay your players..... you will continue to receive generous financial help in the future..... but this one is for soccer. YOU CAN'T HAVE EVERYTHING."


The best post on this thread by a mile. I'd add check the picture of the soccer pitch marked within Croke park in all the tabs today - was just laughing at how lost it looked with a few GAA heads there a few mins ago. The tallaght case is not about "reciprocal" gestures or "accommodating all sports in a municipal" venue its about stopping the "sacar crowd" getting any decent foothold in Tallaght. To do this involves destroying a stand half built with public money. Fck them.

[Sam Savic]

Just to clear up a point made earlier: it was in the Davis submission about the Tallaght Municipal stadium being ideal for use as a southside inter county venue - the southside Parnell Park. Ideal for inter county hurling and some league games. It was pointed out to them that it was a pointless part of their submission because Davis have nothing to do with inter county affairs. If it was the idea of the ground being used for inter county matches, then the Dublin Board or CLG HQ should have been taking the case.
Another point: anyone go to the wrestling in the Davis clubhouse?
Also: a soccer club cannot hire a gaa all weather pitch for training. However, Joe Bloggs, from the same soccer club, can book the venue for the same players under his own name.
Also: Linfield FC allowed the free use of their grounds a couple of years ago to a camogie team because other venues were unplayable.
Also: don't forget the "last man standing..." quote from the man of the year at Davis.
I'm not for one minute saying that all gaa heads are bigots - but too many of them are.

[Murpholini]

Thomas Davis have no real interest in the long term benefit of the Tallaght stadium. They are a club in decline due to the competition from other sports and they see this as an opportunity to delay this from happening. I hope Rovers get the stadium to themselves and their sleeping fanbase comes to life. With Kelleher backing the Saints it would be great if someone came in and did the same with the hoops as they have massive potential.

[galwayhoop]

For all those undecided as to whether it actually makes PHYSICAL sense to have a full-sized GAA pitch in Tallaght Stadium - leaving out any other arguments for a moment - just watch the Ireland v Wales game. You will note the huge expanse around the edge of the soccer pitch. A space that could easily be used to build an average size housing estate.

That should end that argument. It simply doesn't make sense to have GAA and soccer LONG TERM in the same stadium. In fact it's ludicrous. The two pitch sizes aren't remotely compatible.

Croke Park is a different matter. Pitch-wise, it's a very unsatisfactory solution - but it's only a very temporary SHORT TERM solution, made more bearable by the fact that all the soccer games there should be close to sell-out.

However in Tallaght Stadium, for the sake of having the possibility of playing an occasional GAA game there, Shamrock Rovers are expected to play EVERY home game out in the middle of a vast empty expanse - miles away from the crowd. With half of the originally-planned spectator facilities left unbuilt to make room for the GAA pitch.

A farcical situation - pure and simple.

John O'Donoghue is NOT anti GAA and never has been. He simply wants to build a stadium which prioritises soccer (and rugby). A stadium built to soccer (and rugby) specifications.

What he is clearly saying to the GAA is "Listen guys..... we gave you huge financial help with Croke Park..... you got further millions upon millions in grants for the excellent stadiums and clubhouses springing up all over the country..... we are giving you money to pay your players..... you will continue to receive generous financial help in the future..... but this one is for soccer. YOU CAN'T HAVE EVERYTHING."


Hard to argue with anything here. Great post. Not biased at all and very accurate.

[galwayhoop]

and is it proposed that development will be phased, i.e. just one stand initally, or will the entire ground, i.e. 4 sides, be completed? again assuming the green light is received in court.

[khoop]

whats the capacity going to be then assuming ye are left alone

The initial planned capacity was for 6,000. The GAA claim that this can be maintained, but frankly I doubt it severely.

However - it was ALWAYS part of the plan that the capacity would be later increased to at least 10,000 - and that possibility would go out the window FOREVER with a GAA pitch included.

So you're building a brand-new stadium, which prioritises soccer, and which may eventually be home to two clubs - but every time you get a half-decent European game (or who knows, a good league or cup game in a couple of years) it's not big enough.....

That's what the GAA want. Either stop the venue from ever becoming a soccer venue or - at the very least - greatly hinder Rovers from becoming as successful as they could be in Tallaght.

[fergalr]

khoop's post sums up the Tallaght situation brilliantly. POTM.

[BohDiddley]

greatly hinder Rovers from becoming as successful as they could be in Tallaght.
... and that's our job, not theirs! :mad:

[TommyT]

http://www.yourdictionary.com/ahd/a/a0360100.html


n.
2. A policy or practice of separating or segregating groups.
3. The condition of being separated from others; segregation.
apartheid synonyms

and the above is an accurate description of rule 44 (formally rule 42) which i posted above?

Yes as far as I and many on this forum are concerned.

The same can be said of talk of ''National'' games (Mulvihill is lying in yesterday's report), does the Camachnd or whatever it's called in Scotland have similar rules ?