Stephen Kenny to Dunfermline?

[Poor Student]

I think people are also forgetting that after nearly 10 years as an eL manager he could really be looking forward to a change of scene. Particularly after the league problems this season he must feel like he'd like to get out of here. There's strong rumours that the goings on at Shels have worn Nutsy down to the point of quitting soon and these things have probably similarly affected Kenny.

[dcfcsteve]

I'd be fecking fuming if I was a Derry fan. That means he was in talks about another job a day or two before the massive game against Drogs on Tuesday night, a game which ultimately may cost them the title.

Not ideal, but he wasn't in control of the timings for when Dunfermline either needed a Manager or made their approach to him. So what was he to do - pretend to himself that he hadn't been approached, and ask them to go away and come back in a few weeks ? Yeah - they'd love to do that for someone who refused to even talk to them initially..... :rolleyes:


Whether Harps like to admit it or not, this is going to have a profound effect on our own destiny. New manager comes in - Higgsy comes to us, McHugh coming back, Pizza manages us other Derry players released etc etc.

Holy fcuk Cheech - where do you get your drugs from ?!? Mc Hugh going to Finn Harps - are you for real ? :eek: As for this notion of a clear out at the club - one word : Why ? We have a very good, young, hard-working squad based-locally. Even if another Manager did want to make changes, where would he get the money to do it ?? And he would struggle to gte a lot of new players to move to the city - something I suspect the Board would insist upon now from any signing.


Will be very interesting to see and although he will be very very difficult to replace, he still only won one league cup.

Two actually. About as accurate as the rest of your post.


He could have been (still could) an all time hero and legend in Derry had he went on and won the treble, or even the league for that matter.

Be in no doubt about this - Stephen Kenny will remain a legend on Foyleside. Even more so as the whole 'would could've been/if only' dreaming kicks-in with time.

[BohsPartisan]

You've said that a few times now without any shred of evidence.

.

The evidence is there in front of your nose. Like when Kenny was with us, he got you into a position to challenge for the league title and when the pressure was really on he was found wanting. BTID and Neill have already outlined the evidence of him being a bottler while at Bohs. His last season was so bad that things actually improved for a while when Farrelly came in - more because of Kenny's absence than Farrelly's presence.

[dcfcsteve]

The evidence is there in front of your nose. Like when Kenny was with us, he got you into a position to challenge for the league title and when the pressure was really on he was found wanting. BTID and Neill have already outlined the evidence of him being a bottler while at Bohs. His last season was so bad that things actually improved for a while when Farrelly came in - more because of Kenny's absence than Farrelly's presence.

I'll let you into two secrets BP.

Firstly - only one team can win the league.

Secondly - both this season and last season, we have been the team chasing the top spot - not in it. We've constantly been trying to play catch up. So how the hell can you bottle being first place when you've never actually resided there ???:confused: Did Cork and Drogheda bottle it as well ? Drogs spent more of this season top of the table than we did. Did all 10/11 other Premier clubs likewise 'bottle it' ?

Hell hath no bitterness like a Gypsy scorned...

[BohsPartisan]

Drawing with us, Bray and losing to the Drogs when you were in a position to over-take Shels is bottling it. The other two weren't in the position you were in. Doolin didn't even get Drogheda close enough to bottle it. If this was a once off then you'd give Kenny the benefit of the doubt but the fact this is the third time he has been in this situation speeks volumes. I don't get the "Hell hath no bitterness like a Gypsy scorned..." - We sacked him after all. I wouldn't have him back either. This campaign has proven that he's learned nothing since he was with us.

[SwanVsDalton]

Would never have considered taking a club on the brink of relegation to within touching distance of the treble as 'bottling it.' But if Connor emulates him i'm sure you'll still be dissapointed. :rolleyes:

[Jerry The Saint]

Says a lot about the state of the League that the managers of three of the top five clubs either have walked or look like they're about to do so.

Just what I was thinking - and it's not a new thing either. In recent years, Dermot Keely, Roddy Collins and Pat Dolan have all managed to talk themselves out of jobs or walk away from successful teams.

[bohs til i die]

Would never have considered taking a club on the brink of relegation to within touching distance of the treble as 'bottling it.' But if Connor emulates him i'm sure you'll still be dissapointed. :rolleyes:


Kenny did the same thing at Bohs. He took over and we were in the playoff spot, 13 months later we were champions.

Its no surprise that he has done well at Derry as he is a good manager but he lsot his way at Bohs quite a bit and there was a lot of stuff going on in the backround but at Derry he has been afforded funds to sign quite a few players [Kelly, Oman, McCourt, Brennan, McHugh, O'Flynn, McCafferty, Holmes, Molloy] so he has hardly turned a relegation troubled squad into title challengers, he has signed quite a few players to add to some decent players already there and has done quite well.

As for his two league cup wins, Alan Matthews has Two FAI Cup wins and a league cup win, does that make Matthews a better manager? No. Titles decide that and so far Kenny has ONE. Fenlon has TWO and probably THREE in 8 days time [although i hope not].

[BohsPartisan]

Plus Fenlon has had to motivate players who quite often have to go without pay.

[dcfcsteve]

Drawing with us, Bray and losing to the Drogs when you were in a position to over-take Shels is bottling it. The other two weren't in the position you were in. Doolin didn't even get Drogheda close enough to bottle it.

Complete and utter nonesense. If Drogs had beaten Shels last friday, they'd only be one point behind the leaders now with 3 games to go. How the hell does that constitute "not getting close enough to bottle it"....?!? :confused: You're talking out of your arse.

Clubs fortunes ebb and flow over a season. Shels had their bad run a good few months ago. Drogs had their bad run in the middle of the campaign, and are having their good spell at the moment. Unfortunately for Derry, our bad run of form has come as the league has drawn to a close, and Europe meant that our games against Drogheda all coincided with their good spell and our bad one. That's what's really costing us any title. Sh!t happens.

If any Manager has 'bottled' it this season it's Rico. He took a team that were worthy Champions last year, and is currently in danger of seeing them finish 4th and miss out on Europe altogether this season. He should be the target of any managerial disdain or childish accusations of 'bottling'.

I'll remind you again that Drogs have spent more of this season at the top of the table than Derry have, and had they beaten Shels last Friday would've been only one point off the top with 9 points left to play for and an easier run-in than Shels. If you didn't view Irish football through anti-Stephen Kenny glasses you might have grasped that that is a clearer case of blowing it for a team that is currently in-form.

[BohsPartisan]

I'm not anti-stephen kenny. I was one of the people who was defending him on the Bohs message board for a long time when others were calling for his head but I was proved wrong and I applaud those who saw what I couldn't at the time. Now if you take off your Pro-Kenny glasses you might see what I mean.

He's the Irish Kevin Keegan.

[cavan_fan]

It's a stunning indictment of the EL that Kenny is going to Dunfermline. As stated above they are a nothing team and yet this is probably a good career move. (You can imagine if he got them into the top half of the table someone like Preston taking a chance on him, from there a Premiership job is achievable).

With this, financial problems at Shels, a chaotic end to the season it's hard to see next seasons european runs matching this seasons.

[LukeO]

I really dont give two S**T about Europe as we have so many issues to deal with here in our domestic league that people shoud refocus themselves on getting a well organised and well run and strong league. I cant see why so many people have a facination with Europe i cant imagine any of clubs made too much money from it.

You can make a hell of a lot of money from Europe. I'd imagine Shels made thousands the season they played Deportivo.

The season we played Kaiserslautern we got about half a milion from German tv alone. Plus in terms of gate receipts we played in front of a sell-out croud at Tolka against Aberdeen and a sell-out croud in Dalymount when we played Rosenborg.

[pete]

I think the big issue now is who will Stephen Kenny take with him to Scotland. How many players out of contract or have clauses in their contracts?

[SwanVsDalton]

I think the big issue now is who will Stephen Kenny take with him to Scotland. How many players out of contract or have clauses in their contracts?


That's what i'm worried about. Not sure who has clauses or could easily leave but i'm sure most of the players would jump at the chance to join Kenny in the SPL. Deery, Kelly, Molloy and Oman are the most likely to be targeted IMO.

[NY Hoop]

I'm not anti-stephen kenny. I was one of the people who was defending him on the Bohs message board for a long time when others were calling for his head but I was proved wrong and I applaud those who saw what I couldn't at the time. Now if you take off your Pro-Kenny glasses you might see what I mean.

He's the Irish Kevin Keegan.

Keegan never won the top championship even with millions at his disposal. Gypos just have a chip on their shoulders because of his subsequent success. Boez have done squat since he left.

Brought Longford from nothing to Europe. Won the league with boez. Great European success with Derry.

In addition when you dont win the league generally its because you are not good enough over the whole season not because you "bottled" it. A myth along with the new "punching above your weight" crap.

Dunfermline is a promotion for Kenny. Not the playing standard which is pretty much the same but the administration and the facilities are so far ahead over there we will never come near with plebs administering the game here. Can anyone really blame him for leaving?

Without doubt the Gretna result got him the job. Best of luck to him.


KOH

[dcfcsteve]

I'm not anti-stephen kenny. I was one of the people who was defending him on the Bohs message board for a long time when others were calling for his head but I was proved wrong and I applaud those who saw what I couldn't at the time. Now if you take off your Pro-Kenny glasses you might see what I mean.

He's the Irish Kevin Keegan.

Rubbish. Keegan was 12 points clear at the top of the English Premier league at Christmas, yet still managed to blow the title.

Kenny has been nowhere near being in such a situation - in fact, he's usually been with the team challenging the club at the top - so your comparison is lazy and untrue.

I note you haven't addressed the point that if anyone has bottled it this season it's an in-form Drogheda side who could be only 1 point off the top now with an easy run-in, and also arch-bottler Damien Richardson, who's taken Cork form worthy champions to a team struggling for 3rd place in less than 12 months. But just you keep plugging away at SK though...

But as NY Hoop has pointed out, this notion of "bottling it" is just a lazy cliche. Only one team can win the league. That doesn't make every other club 'bottlers'....

[BohsPartisan]

Yes I have. I think Doolin is a bad manager. Nothing to do with Bottling. I think Kenny is a good manager until he gets to the final hurdle. Thats my definition of bottling, falling when the finish line is insight.

[Bosco]

Plus Fenlon has had to motivate players who quite often have to go without pay.


When Kenny came to Longford he had to motivate players who were stuck to the very bottom of Division One and some weeks were only getting paid because of generous donations from fans,3 years later and walla we had just been in our very first cup final and were now playing for the first time in our brand new 7,000 all seater stadium.Poor aul Fenlon having to try and motivate overpaid mutts chasing the league title when they may have had to wait a whole extra week for their wages!

[sonofstan]

walla

:confused:

[BohsPartisan]

I'm not disputing that he did well with Longford but he didn't really have anything to bottle then - see my definition above. Fenlon is a better manager than Kenny - end of. His record speaks for itself. I like Kenny, I can't stand Fenlon, so thats not a biased opinion.

[pete]

Fenlon is a better manager than Kenny - end of. His record speaks for itself. I like Kenny, I can't stand Fenlon, so thats not a biased opinion.

It agree. Time has not been favourable to Bohs sacking Kenny but they were correct at the time. Shocking european result & crap start to season with team that could not defend a lead. Bohs made some other terible decisions with managers but Kenny was not one.

Fenlon is the best manager in the league, he is on the brink of 3 leagues in 4 seasons which is best record in 20 years. Best managers usually get the best teams just like any other sport. He has had some dodgy results in europe but learnt fronm them & CL 3rd round not been bettered. (I did to cleanse myself now after praise him like that)

[dcfcsteve]

Yes I have. I think Doolin is a bad manager. Nothing to do with Bottling. I think Kenny is a good manager until he gets to the final hurdle. Thats my definition of bottling, falling when the finish line is insight.

That's a rubbish analogy.

SK hasn't fallen at any final hurdle - he's just completed the race in second. As stated previously only one horse can win the race. That doesn't make every other horse bottlers or abject failures - particularly when SK's horse wasn't leading the pack at any point during the race.

If City had been top of the league for any significant period of time, and then we blew it towards the end of the season - just like Kevin Keegan did with Newcastle - then your bottling theory might start to have some mileage. But the fact is that we weren't - hence your view is a nonsense.

[osarusan]

:confused:

"voila" perhaps?

[sonofstan]

"voila" perhaps?

Mersea bowkoo

[BohsPartisan]

That's a rubbish analogy.

- hence your view is a nonsense.

Thats your opinion I have mine. I doubt we will agree so continuing to argue the toss with you is pointless.

[hoops1]

Bottling it is harsh, but i definately think Derry missed out the week they
won the league cup. Kenny totally lost the run of himself that week and the
legaue game in Tolka the 2-2 is where it was lost imo.
Derry's surrender of the 2 goal lead gave the advantage to Shels
If Kenny had controlled the players discipline better after the 2 sendings
off instead of its all the refs fault the 3rd might not have happened
Derry would have won the match and probably the title

[dcfcsteve]

Bottling it is harsh, but i definately think Derry missed out the week they
won the league cup. Kenny totally lost the run of himself that week and the
legaue game in Tolka the 2-2 is where it was lost imo.
Derry's surrender of the 2 goal lead gave the advantage to Shels
If Kenny had controlled the players discipline better after the 2 sendings
off instead of its all the refs fault the 3rd might not have happened
Derry would have won the match and probably the title

What screwed us in that game was not having a sub-keeper on the bench. That is the only decision SK has made in his 2 years at Derry that I personally would criticise him for.

A proper keeper would've saved at least one, if not both, of Shels' goals in that match.

[Aaron]

This whole shebang about Fenlon being a better manager is based on winning trophies of course. Yes but as far as being a better tactical manager i would say Stephen Kenny is better. Thats not biased because its like sayin Felix Healy is a better manager than Kenny because he won more trophies at us but my definition of a good manager is based on how a team plays and how far they have come since the previous manager. Yes managers are judged on success and rightly so but like Dunfermline are doing, they look at the style of football and organisation of a team and how they play rather than just how many trophies the person has won

[bohs til i die]

This whole shebang about Fenlon being a better manager is based on winning trophies of course. Yes but as far as being a better tactical manager i would say Stephen Kenny is better. Thats not biased because its like sayin Felix Healy is a better manager than Kenny because he won more trophies at us but my definition of a good manager is based on how a team plays and how far they have come since the previous manager. Yes managers are judged on success and rightly so but like Dunfermline are doing, they look at the style of football and organisation of a team and how they play rather than just how many trophies the person has won



In the 3 league games between Derry and Shels this season both clubs have 4 points yet Derry are 3/6 points behind Shels. That indicates that Fenlon's team are more consitant over the league season to pick up more points fromthe other teams in the league.

In 2003 and 2004 Bohs took more points from our games with Shels yet finished 5 and 8 points respectively behind Shels over the course of the season. I know Kenny wasnt around for half of 2004 but the main pioint stands.

Fenlon has 2 [probably 3] titles in 5 seasons. He musnt be too bad at the oul tactics and motivation when you consider he has kept Shels at the top despite two winding up orders, players strikes and 4/5 weeks of non payment of wages.

A manager's tactics and how he gets them across to his playersis a huge part of football. If Fenlon makes it 3 from 5 then surely you cannot deny he is the best manager currently employed in the eircom league?

[BohsFans]

It's funny how Derry fans are changing their ambitions around now that they can't realistically win the league.

They were going for the title a few weeks ago, now it's second place they're aimed for.

[nzamcdza]

obviously??? :confused:

[dcfcsteve]

It's funny how Derry fans are changing their ambitions around now that they can't realistically win the league.

They were going for the title a few weeks ago, now it's second place they're aimed for.

What's so funny about that ?? :confused: The table doesn't lie - you have to accept what it says.

Mathematically we can still win the league, but are unlikely to do so. We therefore now have to worry about whether Cork or Drogs can pip us to 2nd place. That's the reality of the situation. Would you rather fans ignore the reality their teams face....?

[derrymac]

There is still an outside chance we can win the league but we will all know a lot more this time tomorrow. If Shels lose to Cork and Derry beat St Pats and arbitration announces the original decision to deduct Bohs 3 points and no replay it leaves Derry 3 points behind with a game in hand. Beat Waterford on Monday night and it is level on points going into the last game of the season. Yes, we would have to rely on a Bohs team that has done nothing lately except draw with us and screw our title challenge so we would have to hope that the desire to screw Shels will motivate them like nothing else could and they beat Shels and we beat Cork and we win the lague.

Its a lot to ask for and we haven't done ourselves any favours by drawing with Bray and losing to Drogheda but it aint over yet.

[nzamcdza]

We dont think Kenny is the best because of what he has won its the vast improvement he has made.

Fenlon has done a great job winning the legaue with shels, but they were good when he took over and he had money to spend.

When Kenny took over us we were relegation candiadates, to go from that to (probably) 2 second places, 2 league cups, a possible fai cup, a good european run, while having very little money to spend is remarkable.

[BohsFans]

obviously??? :confused:

:rolleyes: read it.


I don't see anyone saying 2nd isn't good enough, especially when you were in a better position (not physically speaking) to win the league then Shels. Your all saying lets go for 2nd.

[dcfcsteve]

:rolleyes: read it.


I don't see anyone saying 2nd isn't good enough, especially when you were in a better position (not physically speaking) to win the league then Shels. Your all saying lets go for 2nd.

When were we in a better position to win the league than Shels ??? :confused: As we've seen, games in-hand don't count for nought.

Waterford could have 20 games in-hand, but I still doubt that would put them in a better position to win the league than Shels....

[BohsPartisan]

Were you not level on points with games in hand at one stage? I was sure you were but I could be wrong.

[bohs til i die]

When Kenny took over us we were relegation candiadates, to go from that to (probably) 2 second places, 2 league cups, a possible fai cup, a good european run, while having very little money to spend is remarkable.


Eh Derry have signed a lot of players in the past 18 months. Holmes, McCourt, Kelly, Oman, O'Flynn, McCafferty, Brennan, McHugh, Molloy - Thats just under half your squad

Fenlon took over an ageing Shels team in 2002 and has made some necessary changes and won titles.

Kenny has had two full seasons at Derry now.

[lofty9]

interesting no-one has noted that he presumably isnt moving for a paycut....

According to today's Derry Journal he was offered a package to stay that beat Dunfermilines salary. Business men in the city put together finances to persuade him to stay.

[passinginterest]

Newstalk this morning said Kenny had signed 2 year contract with Duns to commence within the next ten days.

[BohsPartisan]

Heard on the radio last night that he was definitely staying until after the cup final. Would be poor form if he left before hand.

[dcfcsteve]

Were you not level on points with games in hand at one stage? I was sure you were but I could be wrong.

No. We've always been chasing, both in terms of points and games in-hand.

Which blows your ill-informed little theory re 'falling at the last hurdle' entirely out of the water..

[bohs til i die]

No. We've always been chasing, both in terms of points and games in-hand.

Which blows your ill-informed little theory re 'falling at the last hurdle' entirely out of the water..

7 points behind with 3 games in hand plus a home tie against Shels [which you won]

Maybe you should have tried to play Droghedawhen you were scheduled to.

[SRFC Head]

Its a pity he won't be in charge tomorrow, easy first game away to Rangers!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/d/dunfermline_athletic/6133944.stm

[cheech]

Not ideal, but he wasn't in control of the timings for when Dunfermline either needed a Manager or made their approach to him. So what was he to do - pretend to himself that he hadn't been approached, and ask them to go away and come back in a few weeks ? Yeah - they'd love to do that for someone who refused to even talk to them initially..... :rolleyes:

Holy fcuk Cheech - where do you get your drugs from ?!? Mc Hugh going to Finn Harps - are you for real ? :eek: As for this notion of a clear out at the club - one word : Why ? We have a very good, young, hard-working squad based-locally. Even if another Manager did want to make changes, where would he get the money to do it ?? And he would struggle to gte a lot of new players to move to the city - something I suspect the Board would insist upon now from any signing.

Two actually. About as accurate as the rest of your post.

Be in no doubt about this - Stephen Kenny will remain a legend on Foyleside. Even more so as the whole 'would could've been/if only' dreaming kicks-in with time.

Listen Mr Self-Righteous. Apologies for giving an opinion that you don't agree with. Belittle me all you want like you try to do with everyone else on here that says something you don't like but don't make snide comments about drug abuse when you don't know the first thing about me.

Inaccuracy with the league cup ok. Fair play. But the dogs on the street know that McHugh's job won't let him fulfil full-time football. Maybe he will get something sorted with Derry, maybe not but he isn't getting it easy at the minute with a demanding job and an intense training schedule. His Missus gave birth to their first child a few months ago and they're building a new house and he hardly sees them.

Secondly, both Pizza and Higgsy were candidates for the Harps job last time out and Gorman is under huge pressure as he has failed to deliver this season with a large budget. Where is the inaccuracies there?

If a new manager comes to the Brandywell, chances are he will bring his own assistant. Most do. If Higgsy is left out in the cold do you think he would turn down the Harps job? He has applied for it twice in the past.

Thirdly, I didn't mention a clear out but it is common knowledge that Derry will be releasing 'fringe' players at the end of the season to relieve quite a big wage bill. Ask someone in the know at Derry and don't take my word for it but this was going to happen regardless if Kenny was manager or not.

Kenny leaving Derry will have a direct impact on Finn Harps. That was the jist of my post yet you chose to discect it and point out a mistake I made regarding your league cup wins.

If you can't accept that then don't bother replying with your usual smug, long-winded, self indulgent know-it-all crap.

[harpskid]

Holy fcuk Cheech - where do you get your drugs from ?!? Mc Hugh going to Finn Harps - are you for real ? :eek:

It's well seen that you're not based in the North West when you can just rubbish that claim - just don't be surprised if it happens Steve!:ball:

[cheech]

It's well seen that you're not based in the North West when you can just rubbish that claim - just don't be surprised if it happens Steve!:ball:

Watch Harpskid. Don't argue anymore with him.

We'll be here until next week reading his replies.

[dcfcsteve]

7 points behind with 3 games in hand plus a home tie against Shels [which you won]

In otherwords - no, we were never on level points with a game in-hand.... :rolleyes: Games in-hand mean nothing until they're converted into points.


Maybe you should have tried to play Droghedawhen you were scheduled to.

We wanted to play at least one of the Drogs games earlier, but weren't allowed to. As for the other 2 games, I'm afraid Drogs and ourselves were too busy putting the EL on the map in Europe, erasing memories of poor defeats to Estonian and Moldovan minnows on the way, to be able to play those games. When you buy yourselves back into European contention, then you'll understand...

[dcfcsteve]

Listen Mr Self-Righteous. Apologies for giving an opinion that you don't agree with. Belittle me all you want like you try to do with everyone else on here that says something you don't like but don't make snide comments about drug abuse when you don't know the first thing about me.

Inaccuracy with the league cup ok. Fair play. But the dogs on the street know that McHugh's job won't let him fulfil full-time football. Maybe he will get something sorted with Derry, maybe not but he isn't getting it easy at the minute with a demanding job and an intense training schedule. His Missus gave birth to their first child a few months ago and they're building a new house and he hardly sees them.

Secondly, both Pizza and Higgsy were candidates for the Harps job last time out and Gorman is under huge pressure as he has failed to deliver this season with a large budget. Where is the inaccuracies there?

If a new manager comes to the Brandywell, chances are he will bring his own assistant. Most do. If Higgsy is left out in the cold do you think he would turn down the Harps job? He has applied for it twice in the past.

Thirdly, I didn't mention a clear out but it is common knowledge that Derry will be releasing 'fringe' players at the end of the season to relieve quite a big wage bill. Ask someone in the know at Derry and don't take my word for it but this was going to happen regardless if Kenny was manager or not.

Kenny leaving Derry will have a direct impact on Finn Harps. That was the jist of my post yet you chose to discect it and point out a mistake I made regarding your league cup wins.

If you can't accept that then don't bother replying with your usual smug, long-winded, self indulgent know-it-all crap.

When you're finished ranting....

Where did I say anything about Pizza not going to manage Harps etc ? The one thing I was questioning was a McHugh transfer, as my understanding/information (yes, from the North-West...) is that that is extremley unlikely. I could well be proven wrong - but only time will tell.

As for the idea of SK's move having an impact upon Harps, it may well do so in terms of fringe players. And it may well not. But where did I say what impact it would have upon Harps ? If you'd paused mid-rant you might have read again what I'd said and realised this.

Getting rid of fringe players like Delaney is far form beign a "clear out". You were implying that Kenny leaving would cause a lot of changes in playing personnel, which we simply can't afford to do. Some will leave, who probably would have left anyway, but any notion of a "clear out" is likely to be far from the truth.