Bohs v Shels

[Mr_Parker]

Ah well, if it's any comfort at least it's not just the FAI & eL...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_league/international_and_australian/6098474.stm

I could give you a 101 examples form the IFA!!

[garyderry]

Tough, even if I think any protest of this type pointless...


Bohs contacted the FAI looking for confirmation and were told he was OK to play. Bohs argued they were not notified correctly but shose to accept the 3 point punishment

Derry played a player suspended, were not notified correctly, and had no action taken against them.

Rovers signed a player, who was suspended at a time he had no club, played him and were deducted 3 points. No replay

Its the ****ing inconsitencies that make it a sham

so if all this is true, neither, derry, rovers or bohs should have had ANY punishment as in ALL cases the FAI fecked up,

who punishes the FAI?

[OneRedArmy]

who punishes the FAI?Us, the fans, who they are there to serve (although I think this frequently escapes their mind).

Its up to fans of the EL to present a united front against the football (mis)administrators who have repeatedly failed in their role as custodians of Irish football.

This season is a farce already and NOTHING can save it, regardless of whose name eventually sits at the top of the final League table.

The only good that can come of this is to get the incompetent blazers out of Irish football once and for all.

[joe_barry80]

so if all this is true, neither, derry, rovers or bohs should have had ANY punishment as in ALL cases the FAI fecked up,

who punishes the FAI?
Fifa and Uefa can punish these C***s. If enough people send Emails they should take notice. It's just not normal for leagues to be decided this way. It's an absolute joke.:eek:

[paudie]

I know little or nothing of Eircom League politics or about Ollie Byrne but to be totally honest if I was a Shels fans I would be very annoyed at this decision. The logical thing to do if a player fields an ineligible player is to award the game to the opposition. A replay is simply nonsensical. Why was it not awarded to Shels in the first place? Sure three points cannot just simply be wiped out. In the original game Shels did no wrong and were beaten by a team who had a player that should not have been on the pitch. Therefore it should have been a straightforward decision intially, a Shelbourne win.

There seems to be a conflict between EL rules on fielding an ineligible player (points deducted, match not awarded to opponents) and UEFA/FIFA rules (3-0 award to opponents).

There are also questions as to whether the EL/FAI were obliged to change their rules to agree with the standard FIFA ones for this season. IMO the fact that the "EL" punishment had been levied on other clubs this season should have had weight when coming to a final decision.

Therefore the final decision should have one of these 2 outcomes and Shels were entitled to argue their case.

It's the replay decision that makes the whole thing a farce. It's the kind of thing you might see in a junior league. In my opinion it shows that the FAI dosen't see the EL (even potentially) as a serious league worth spending time administering properly

[Anto McC]

If people think it's bad now,wait untill take over the running of the league full time!

Billy Lord is right and we as fans of the national league have to do everything in our power to show the FAI up for what they are. Which is a bunch of incompetent self serving w*nkers. They are doing their best to silence management and players at clubs but can never silence the fans.

[LukeO]

a point not really mentioned heretofore

Bohemians played "silly buggers" here and IMO deliberately fielded McGuinness to create mischief

Don't be ****ing stupid, what an idiotic post. Why on earth would we do that? Can you give me one good reason? What were we to achieve by doing that? :rolleyes:

I suppose Pats deliberately fielded Paul Marney and Mbabazi "to create mischief" did they?? :rolleyes:

[oriel]

Dundalk can't now turn around and demand a replay, the difference being that Shels didn't accept the original decision to dock 3 points from Bohs but from day one made an official appeal which resulted in yesterdays decision. Dundalk haven't followed that route and have missed the deadlines by which they should of appealed.... now that of course doesn't mean the FAI wouldn't now entertain a appeal from Dundalk, however IMO were Dundalk to do that it would be nothing more than an opportunistic ruse on their part , which IMO would make them no better than the idiots in Merrion Square.



I dont believe Dundalk will be looking for this match to be re-played.

[Rebal Boy]

This is a disgrace that Shels always get their own way just cause their w*nker of a chairman can't take his beaten. Hope 2 GOD Bohs win this game.

[sonofstan]

The league table on the FAI site has been adjusted - Shels have now played 25 for 55 points, we've played 26 for 25 points - i.e. our original 3 point punishment stands, plus we've had the 3 points we won for the Shels match expunged.

[BohsFans]

In the original game Shels did no wrong and were beaten by a team who had a player that should not have been on the pitch. Therefore it should have been a straightforward decision intially, a Shelbourne win.

The league told 2 different Bohs officials the day of the game that he wasn't suspended.

[dancinpants]

The league table on the FAI site has been adjusted - Shels have now played 25 for 55 points, we've played 26 for 25 points - i.e. our original 3 point punishment stands, plus we've had the 3 points we won for the Shels match expunged.


Thats the beauty of it. The match was scrubbed from the records - like it never took place.

Bohs were docked 3 points for a match that was "never played".

[DmanDmythDledge]

I think it is different from the game being expunged. The FAI are saying that the game should be repalyed, so they are acknowledging that it took place originally.

[BohsFans]

It's a pity we can't cash-in on this soap like drama attached to the league these days.

[sonofstan]

It's a pity we can't cash-in on this soap like drama attached to the league these days.

if it ends up with Ollie or Delaney or both buried under patio tiling I'm all for it..

[David]

The league told 2 different Bohs officials the day of the game that he wasn't suspended.

I can understand in that case Bohs being annoyed at this, the league does seem to have acted unbelievably bad.

Here's a hypothetical scenario though. Last game of season, Shels v Derry, Shels at top of table two points ahead of Derry in second. Shels have a number of key players suspended. What is to stop them playing these players and getting a win with them? So what if the points get taken off them, they have still won the league.

[BohsFans]

I can understand in that case Bohs being annoyed at this, the league does seem to have acted unbelievably bad.

Here's a hypothetical scenario though. Last game of season, Shels v Derry, Shels at top of table two points ahead of Derry in second. Shels have a number of key players suspended. What is to stop them playing these players and getting a win with them? So what if the points get taken off them, they have still won the league.

Well it depends what the league tell shels when they ask; "Have we got any suspensions tonight"?

[OneRedArmy]

Here's a hypothetical scenario though. Last game of season, Shels v Derry, Shels at top of table two points ahead of Derry in second. Shels have a number of key players suspended. What is to stop them playing these players and getting a win with them? So what if the points get taken off them, they have still won the league.Nothing.
And whose fault is that? (correct answer is the clubs who signed up to the defective rulebook, ie all of them).

[dcfcsteve]

I can understand in that case Bohs being annoyed at this, the league does seem to have acted unbelievably bad.

Here's a hypothetical scenario though. Last game of season, Shels v Derry, Shels at top of table two points ahead of Derry in second. Shels have a number of key players suspended. What is to stop them playing these players and getting a win with them? So what if the points get taken off them, they have still won the league.


Well Bohs not only lost the 3pts won in their game, but had a further 3pts deducted from them as a penalty.

So in your hypothetical scenario, it would see the title handed to City by a point.

Though that makes the dangerous assumption that the league would judge consistency, particularly when it came to seedy little Shelbourne.

[LukeO]

Well Bohs not only lost the 3pts won in their game, but had a further 3pts deducted from them as a penalty.


No we didn't. :confused:

We only had three points deducted. :confused:

[dancinpants]

No we didn't. :confused:

We only had three points deducted. :confused:


Your use of emoticons lead me to believe you are as confused as I am.

You were deducted 3 points. Dropping you from 31 to 28.
The "win" against Shels is scrubbed from the records and you are then dropped from 28 to 25. :confused: To me that seems almost like a FURTHER 3 points deduction.

[BohsFans]

Your use of emoticons lead me to believe you are as confused as I am.

You were deducted 3 points. Dropping you from 31 to 28.
The "win" against Shels is scrubbed from the records and you are then dropped from 28 to 25. To me that seems almost like a FURTHER 3 points deduction.

http://www.irishfootballonline.com/tables.php?division=Premier

:eek: :(

Looks like it!

Can't be right though. The FAI decision is hardly binding. The el board of control haven't ratified it.

FARCE! :mad:

[dancinpants]

http://www.irishfootballonline.com/tables.php?division=Premier

:eek: :(

Looks like it!

Can't be right though. The FAI decision is hardly binding. The el board of control haven't ratified it.

FARCE!


Thats what I think anyway. Everyone is on here spouting off sh!t from the rule books. But the bottom line is, if a replay is granted - if the game is wiped from the records, then so should the 3 point deduction. As it stands Bohs have NOTHING to gain from a replay - if you win it, you will still be sitting at the end of the season with an asterix beside you in the league table inicating a 3 point deduction. I've read a few articles where its been suggested that Bohs could "win back" their 3 points - thats NOT going to happen. Looking at the league table, and a bit of simple mathmatics will tell you that

If you want to get down to brass tacks, the replay is purely geared towards giving Shels an opportunity to gain 3 points. What benefit will Bohs get from this game - with regards to the league table? Nothing, no matter what way you dice and slice it.

To follow on from Davids "hypothetical" scenario - should the replay go ahead, and (god forbid) a Bohs player is badly injured - would Bohs be in a position to take the FAI to court for forcing them to play a meaningless game? :confused:

[David]

I didn't realise that it was in effect a 6 point deduction and now Bohs are playing to get 3 of those back. Absolute madness. As I said earlier the logical thing to do would have been (if Bohs were found guilty, and it seems there is a very good case for finding them not guilty) to award Shelbourne the win for the game. If the rules do not allow for this then they should be changed immediately. I thought it was only the IFA that screwed these things up. Why make it easy when it can be hard seems to be the attitude.

[lofty9]

I didn't realise that it was in effect a 6 point deduction and now Bohs are playing to get 3 of those back. Absolute madness. As I said earlier the logical thing to do would have been (if Bohs were found guilty, and it seems there is a very good case for finding them not guilty) to award Shelbourne the win for the game. If the rules do not allow for this then they should be changed immediately. I thought it was only the IFA that screwed these things up. Why make it easy when it can be hard seems to be the attitude.

David, The rules were in place that Bohs should be docked the points. Precedent has been set by the league on various occaisions. The EL teams all signed up for the league and therefore by doing so accepted the rule book. Shels are one of those teams. The eircom league made the decision to deduct the points. There is no place for a replay in the rule book or for a 3-0 win. Fair play is the FAI's excuse to hand Ollie his Champions League spot and pay the wages of his mercenaries for another year. To change the rules mid season are idiotic and have led to the chaos.

The Irish League gave the EL Derry, any chance of taking Shelbourne from us a thank you?:D

[dcfcsteve]

I didn't realise that it was in effect a 6 point deduction and now Bohs are playing to get 3 of those back. Absolute madness. As I said earlier the logical thing to do would have been (if Bohs were found guilty, and it seems there is a very good case for finding them not guilty) to award Shelbourne the win for the game. If the rules do not allow for this then they should be changed immediately. I thought it was only the IFA that screwed these things up. Why make it easy when it can be hard seems to be the attitude.


Now you see why I'd be happy for any all-island league to be run out of Belfast....!:eek:

[cavan_fan]

Anyone see any similarities with the Rugby League story in New Zealand where NZ played an Australain who had a Kiwi Great grandmother rahter than grandmother (are you listenting Tony Cascarino). Anyway there seems to have been a quick decision whihc everyone accepts that NZ lose the points but Britain (who he played against) dont gain any.

Of course in Ireland it's an opportunity to have a drawn out argument!

[thomas]

For all the moaning Ollie is right, as the points deduction stood and boez didn't appeal Ollie was fully entitled to point out that UEFA granted 3-0 walkovers to the opposition in all such cases. The fact that they have given a replay is effectively the same thing, exept they might not get the 3-0.

In dundalks case, they'd be threading thin ice, as would the fai in awarding a replay since the matter there still has the potential to go further, that would completely fook things up.

[OneRedArmy]

For all the moaning Ollie is right, as the points deduction stood and boez didn't appeal Ollie was fully entitled to point out that UEFA granted 3-0 walkovers to the opposition in all such cases. The fact that they have given a replay is effectively the same thing, exept they might not get the 3-0.

In dundalks case, they'd be threading thin ice, as would the fai in awarding a replay since the matter there still has the potential to go further, that would completely fook things up.If ever there was a skewed analysis to suit your own club, thats it.

[WeAreRovers]

If ever there was a skewed analysis to suit your own club, thats it.

Eh, I actually think Thomas's analysis doesn't suit Rovers. We'd love if Dundalk asked for and were granted a replay.

Mind you, I'd prefer consistent, logical decision making across the board applied to all clubs. But then, I've always been a dreamer. :rolleyes:

KOH

[OneRedArmy]

Eh, I actually think Thomas's analysis doesn't suit Rovers. We'd love if Dundalk asked for and were granted a replay.

Mind you, I'd prefer consistent, logical decision making across the board applied to all clubs. But then, I've always been a dreamer. :rolleyes:

KOHApologies Thomas.

But I think the precendent in the Bohs case would carry, if it sticks through arbitration.

Obviously its Dundalks perogative and since they have less to gain it makes it unlikely that a replay would be foisted upon them against their will.

More worrying is the precedent established for the other cases (Hargan being one).

[Burnsie]

Ollie was fully entitled to point out that UEFA granted 3-0 walkovers to the opposition in all such cases..

utter nonsense.

what uefa would do is as irrelevant as what the north wicklow under 16 girls' hockey league would do. the eircom league rules are clear, and the precedents of their application are clear: 3 points deduction, no walkover, no replay.

if ollie byrne doesn't like it, by all means he can lobby for the rule to be modified for next season.

[wws]

utter nonsense.

what uefa would do is as irrelevant what the north wicklow under 16 girls' hockey league would do. the eircom league rules are clear, and the precedents of their application are clear: 3 points deduction, no walkover, no replay.

if ollie byrne doesn't like it, by all means he can lobby for the rule to be modified for next season.


WRONG

uh uh

what uefa do is paramount - and thats why ollie has them over a barrel here and thats why they made up a ruling with no reference to their own rules

[Burnsie]

WRONG

uh uh

what uefa do is paramount - and thats why ollie has them over a barrel here and thats why they made up a ruling with no reference to their own rules

where does it say that? genuinely? the league have the power to determine their own administrative rules. if this was the case, why weren't the UEFA rules mentioned in the decision?

[wws]

where does it say that? genuinely? the league have the power to determine their own administrative rules. if this was the case, why weren't the UEFA rules mentioned in the decision?

uuuhm i dunno sherlock
Ollie issued the threat of appeal via that UEFA precedent
its seems to have been enough to convince the fai - el or WHOEVER the fck issued this ruling that they'll back away

[LukeO]

Your use of emoticons lead me to believe you are as confused as I am.

You were deducted 3 points. Dropping you from 31 to 28.
The "win" against Shels is scrubbed from the records and you are then dropped from 28 to 25. :confused: To me that seems almost like a FURTHER 3 points deduction.

Jesus that's even more disgraceful than I'd realised. To be honest our season has been so bad that I wasn't even aware how many points we were on, hence me not realising the further points deduction.

[Mr A]

John Delaney has his say on things:


FAI chief executive John Delaney refused to be drawn on the controversial state of the domestic league today, opting instead to keep his council until after tomorrow's eircom League Board of Control meeting.

Whether or not Delaney will elaborate following that meeting remains to be seen but he has promised a "speedier process" to deal with registration and suspension issues once the FAI takes control of the league later this year.

"It's important to learn from the past but certainly not live in it," he said when questioned on the litany of disputes that have dogged the domestic league in recent seasons.

"We're working on putting different processes in place to learn from all the mistakes of the past, in all areas.

"Going forward there will be speedier processes to deal with something, for example, which occurred in the middle of August and is only now being dealt with. . . that I believe will help in terms of process."

For more see: http://www.ireland.com/sports/soccer/2006/1103/1162547475642.html

[Macy]

What a knob - It's the bloody FAI part of the process that has dragged it out till now.

[lofty9]

Maybe next year they can do us all a favour by having something similar to the FA in England. This is a good site.

http://www.thefa.com/TheFA/RulesAndRegulations/

Interestingly on fair play:

FAIR PLAY IN FOOTBALL
means that EVERYONE connected with football

shows understanding of and respect for the Laws of the Game
supports the belief that the game should be played in an entertaining and positive way
behaves on and off the field in a sporting manner towards all others involved, be they players, officials or spectators, irrespective of resultsMaybe certain people should action this as this is what FAIR PLAY is.

[pól-dcfc]

This whole debacle is a fúcking joke. The FAI are destroying the game, as is Ollie with his constant legal wranglings. The only way to sort this out is for all clubs to resign from the league and reform a new league with a clear and decent rule book and decent administration. Fúck Genesis and the new Super Ultra Extreme Premier Eircom FAI League.

[CollegeTillIDie]

Fair play = Bohs V Shels get a replay
What about Shamrock Rovers getting a replay for their game when they allegedly played a suspended player , from a club that no longer existed, whose results had been expunged from the record books, so legally never took place. How can a player be suspended from a game which now has officially never occurred?

What's the difference between their case and Shels case?
What is sauce for the goose should also be sauce for the ganders!

[holidaysong]

We will take that replay against Rovers now please.