View Full Version : FAI Seeking New League Member
bigmac
03/10/2006, 11:10 AM
It could be argued that UCD has an unfair advantage over other LOI clubs in that scholarships are tax exempt.
True, but the oppoprtunity has been there for every other club to get involved in a similar scheme - Waterford Utd recently launched a scholarship scheme with WIT - let's not penalise UCD for having a good idea - why don't Cork, Limerick, Galway etc.. link in with local 3rd level institutions?
EDIT: posted before PS pointed out that several other clubs do link up
dcfcsteve
03/10/2006, 11:13 AM
Dunno what the standard wage at UCD is. I think scholarship players get €100-200 a week. Every player either has another job or is scholarship so they're all part time. They train 3 times a week I think.
Steve, I'm confused by your questions. Do you mean UCD as in the club or the college? I'm not sure who pays for the upkeep of the stadium. UCD will very soon move into the Belfield Bowl stadium at the other end of the campus to share with the rugby club. I don't know if the clubs maintain it or the Department of Sport (in UCD) in general or what.
When I say 'UCD' I'm refering to the club.
When i say 'the college' I mean the college.
My point was that whilst UCD paying their scholarships sounds expensive, a number of the other costs that EL clubs usually face (e.g. ground hire/upkeep) don't appear to be covered by the club, which means that the cost of scholarships is probably offset by cost savings elsewhere.
dcfcsteve
03/10/2006, 11:14 AM
It could be argued that UCD has an unfair advantage over other LOI clubs in that scholarships are tax exempt.
It could likewise be argued that Derry City has an unfair disadvantage versus all other EL clubs, as we are the only ones who have to pay tax on gate receipts.
Swings and roundabouts....
bigmac
03/10/2006, 11:18 AM
My point was that whilst UCD paying their scholarships sounds expensive, a number of the other costs that EL clubs usually face (e.g. ground hire/upkeep) don't appear to be covered by the club, which means that the cost of scholarships is probably offset by cost savings elsewhere.
true, but there are also quite a few clubs out there who benefit from preferential rates from local authorities etc. I would suggest that there are very few clubs who have to pay full commercial rates for their facilities. Does anyone know the breakdown of grants for example - how much is UCD getting towards the development of the Bowl in comparison to other clubs?
Obviously it is in the college's interest to have an EL team associated with the university, but equally so, it is in the interests of Waterford Corporation to have an EL team in Waterford and to have the RSC in more regular use than if it were kept for athletics alone. Therefore, WUFC get somewhat preferential treatment from the corporation.
Poor Student
03/10/2006, 11:25 AM
true, but there are also quite a few clubs out there who benefit from preferential rates from local authorities etc. I would suggest that there are very few clubs who have to pay full commercial rates for their facilities.
It could likewise be argued that Derry City has an unfair disadvantage versus all other EL clubs, as we are the only ones who have to pay tax on gate receipts.
Swings and roundabouts....
That pretty much sums it up. People would have you believe that we're some exception who completely lives off tax payer's money but there are varying circumstances all over the league where someone is aided by a local authority or the likes.
Does anyone know the breakdown of grants for example - how much is UCD getting towards the development of the Bowl in comparison to other clubs?
50% of the money is coming in the form of a capital grant from the Department of Sport (as in the government department). That's fair enough, it will host two clubs from two sports all year round. I think the clubs are coming up with the rest. Not sure how much the actual college are chipping in. There is a downside to the college owning our ground. UCD were supposed to have redeveloped Belfield Park years back but the college decided to put a research centre on the pitch instead. This has lead us to not being able to move forward and play in a ground receiving no investment. With the upcoming new league critera and the old licencing criteria this has been a hinderance.
WeAreRovers
03/10/2006, 11:35 AM
Have also heard a bit of a story saying that Rovers probably have to win the 1st to get into the new top division.
So for this season I think what is in the premier this year will stay and the winner of the 1st will make up the 12. Just based this on what I have heard.
Funny how you heard it shortly after getting knocked out of the cup by us. :D
What you, and others, are missing is that the Premier and First Divisions will cease to exist after this season. The new league is exactly that, a brand, spanking new league.
Winning the 1st will give Rovers (or Galway or Dundalk) x amount of points towards entry to the new league. Nothing more, nothing less.
KOH
bigmac
03/10/2006, 11:56 AM
Winning the 1st will give Rovers (or Galway or Dundalk) x amount of points towards entry to the new league. Nothing more, nothing less.
It is entirely possible however, that the points allocation for off the field matters will coincidentally turn out to be such that the team who is in 13th place would have been in 12th if they had won the first division. Not that I'm suggesting this will be looked at before the off the field points are allocated.
bluemovie
03/10/2006, 11:57 AM
To whom it concerns (including our own staff), do yourselves a favour and leave Waterford United out of this. Once the criteria were announced, it was clear that the FAI want the Blues in next year's Premier Division. Our record over the last 4/5 years (worth 300 points) would have us in the Top 8. We won the First Division, then finished 6th, 5th and 8th in the Premier. [As an aside, we've finished ahead of Shamrock Rovers in each of the four seasons since we were promoted]. So for the Dundalk fan who said that nobody should complain if they were promoted and we were relegated, stop deluding yourself.
We've done everything that the FAI wanted off the field including ground improvements, building a second stand for next year, eliminating our debt, lowering our wages massively, developing a scholarship system with WIT and improving links greatly with local Junior and Schools leagues.
But the biggest giveaway of the FAI's intentions was when they said they wanted teams in every major population/geographic centre. That translates as "we want Waterford, Galway and Limerick in the Premier along with the other obvious candidates".
Limerick, unfortunately, have blown their chance for this season both on and off the field. Galway have a strong case, but it will depend on whether the FAI have the neck to boot Bray or UCD out. Dublin City's implosion, in my view, immediately handed Rovers promotion. I don't think Cobh would have been allowed up even if they had won the First Division. Dundalk have a strong case IF they win the First.
As for the existing Premier clubs, Sligo are guaranteed to stay up - they're challenging for Europe and their entire set-up is very impressive. Longford's record keeps them up too. I think it would be very harsh to boot UCD out and I personally think that Bray are most at risk, but there's a strong possibility all 11 clubs will stay up and be joined by Rovers.
The only potential spanner in the works for Waterford was if we finished miles behind everybody in 12th. That looked possible at one stage this season, but DC's exit and our recent improvement ruled this out.
See ye in the Premier Divison in 2007.
Dundalk have a strong case IF they win the First.
No they don't, at least not under the criteria as set out by the FAI. Their 4 year record is pretty bad, Rovers will rank ahead of them due to cup exploits no matter what happens at this stage and there's no way they'll make up the difference off the field.
As has been pointed out several times- winning the first division will get you a few extra points, which COULD mean the difference between promotion and relegation but almost certainly won't.
pineapple stu
03/10/2006, 12:44 PM
A fair few comments to post here! Have a root and find the one relating to you! :)
It could be argued that UCD has an unfair advantage over other LOI clubs in that scholarships are tax exempt.
No it can't. The players are mostly students, so don't earn enough to pay any tax anyway. Another great cost-cutting measure! :)
If UCD are treated like any other college course/school by having to pay for their own scholars, does that mean they're also treated the same as any other college school/course* in terms of not having to pay for the use/upkeep of their facilities ? Do UCD also receive a grant from the college, like oher courses/schools ? If so - scholarships would be more than possible due to reduced costs elsewhere.
I don't know for sure, but I think the likes of ground upkeep is paid by the college, and rent is minimal. But then, I don't think this differs hugely from grounds owned by, say, the local councils.
We do receive a grant from the college, as far as I know, but I heard it amounted to about 8-10% of our turnover in the First Division; less in the Premier obviously.
On the mention of scholarships, how is Ger O'Callaghan settling in? Has he played for you yet? He's a good kid & hope he does well.
Hasn't made the bench yet anyway.
Yes the clubs have.
They were given it at a seminar on September 7th and now have till the end of October to get their information together to demonstrate how they satisfy the various crtieria.
How wishy-washy are they? Are marks awarded for "present"/"absent" or "good"/"bad"? Do marks go from, say, 10 down to 0 or from 8 down to 4? If you can get top marks or no marks, then the stuff about four-year history is really irrelevant as there's only 100 marks between about ten teams in the middle, which could easily be made up over 500 marks. (God, this is the greatest load of rubbish I've heard in my life when you actually type it...) In this case, Galway Harps' point about Dundalk's 4-year record holding them back is irrelevant. If the FAI want to (not saying that they do, but if), they could realistically promote or relegate any borderline club they want to.
ya i did as a certain element of criteria which will aid our endeavours in getting into the elite.You then said "if your going to go up on a website".-Stupid Comment there.
You just said it again - mentioning a website as part of your way into the elit. Dodge is right, I'm afraid.
For instance, you and many other supporters of other league clubs do not know the true financial picture of your club. I'd be surprise that the football club, if it is classified as a society, doesn't get a share of society funding that is allocated by the college each year. I doubt also that ground maintenance is paid by the club but rather by the college, or that the club pays rent to the college for use of Belfield Pk.
I'd know a reasonable amount about the financial workings of the club. The committee will answer any questions if we ask. I know our loss for 2005 and the amount we owe to Revenue, for example. I would agree with you that I don't think we pay rent and that we get a grant. Don't see anything wrong with it though.
Duffman
03/10/2006, 12:46 PM
No they don't, at least not under the criteria as set out by the FAI. Their 4 year record is pretty bad, Rovers will rank ahead of them due to cup exploits no matter what happens at this stage and there's no way they'll make up the difference off the field.
I may have missed something along the line but how come that Shamrock Rovers aren't handicapped in any way for being homeless? Do they therefore get the benefit (assessment wise) of their landlords having good off the field facilities etc? Not trying to stir it but curious that away from the field of play I would have thought that would hinder their cause. That said there is no way that SRFC won't go up, even if they lose all their remaining games it would matter a jot to their inclusion in the superdooperpremiership next term.
Rovers could suffer for their record on licensing and for not having a ground of their own. However most of the points are for realistic plans etc as much as what's currently in place. Rovers still have the Tallaght thing- so while they may suffer a bit they won't in all likelihood be hit that hard.
How wishy-washy are they? Are marks awarded for "present"/"absent" or "good"/"bad"? Do marks go from, say, 10 down to 0 or from 8 down to 4? If you can get top marks or no marks, then the stuff about four-year history is really irrelevant as there's only 100 marks between about ten teams in the middle, which could easily be made up over 500 marks. (God, this is the greatest load of rubbish I've heard in my life when you actually type it...) In this case, Galway Harps' point about Dundalk's 4-year record holding them back is irrelevant. If the FAI want to (not saying that they do, but if), they could realistically promote or relegate any borderline club they want to.
The details are confidential to the clubs so while I've heard the gist of them I can't answer anymore than that. I didn't feel they were too wishy washy, some of it based directly on licensing compliance, some on figures like attendances, some on structures, like youth, some on plans - business plans, marketing plans etc.
I think most clubs will do reasonably well unless they are a total shambles off the field.
pineapple stu
03/10/2006, 12:56 PM
Fair enough.
Are they going to get released to the fans or the general public at any stage, before or after the tally? I think it's only fair that such an important decision be carried out in full view, not in a shady room in Merrion Square.
dcfcsteve
03/10/2006, 1:13 PM
... there are varying circumstances all over the league where someone is aided by a local authority or the likes.
Or, as in the case of City, actively held-back by a local authority..... :(
Schumi
03/10/2006, 1:14 PM
Or, as in the case of City, actively held-back by a local authority..... :(
Any progress on that recently?
harps1954
03/10/2006, 2:00 PM
Our record over the last 4/5 years (worth 300 points) would have us in the Top 8. We won the First Division, then finished 6th, 5th and 8th in the Premier. [As an aside, we've finished ahead of Shamrock Rovers in each of the four seasons since we were promoted]. So for the Dundalk fan who said that nobody should complain if they were promoted and we were relegated, stop deluding yourself.
I have no doubt that both Waterford and Rovers will be in the Premier Division next season. However, Rovers and Waterford's record over the seasons 2002/03 - 2005 (4 seasons) are almost identical. Both clubs score the same number of points for their league positions and FAI Cup records. But Rovers picked up a couple of points because of their European record in 2003. Also, Rovers run to the FAI Cup Semi-Final this season means that Rovers will outscore Waterford this season - unless Waterford move up another couple of positions in this seasons' Premier. Waterford will in all likelihood end up ranked 10th at the end of this season, but Rovers will be ranked 8th - even if they finish 3rd in the First Divison this season. If Rovers were to win the Cup and the First Division, they could even finish ranked 7th at the end of the campaign. What will do damage to Rovers though is their licensing record over the past few years (remember they operated without a licence in 2005) so they will lose points here.
It is also likely that Sligo Rovers, Bray Wanderers and Galway United could outscore Waterford in the off-the-field criteria, which would mean that Waterford would then be ranked in 13th place and therefore form part of the new First Division next season. If Galway do get ranked in the top twelve this season, it will be at the expenses of either Sligo/Bray/Waterford with Bray currently ranked lower than the three of these. The team that finishes bottom of the Premier this season (Bray/Waterford) is in real danger of not being in the Premier next year.
Having said that, I still expect the 12 team Premier next year to feature all eleven teams that are currently in it, along with Shamrock Rovers. Galway United might just make it ahead of either Bray/Waterford, but I think the top ten currenlty in the Premier are certs. As for the rest of the teams currently in the First Division, I can't see any of them doing enough in the "off the field" criteria to make the top twleve - and that includes Dundalk winning the First Division.
Sorry if this is on another post but what will happen the following year
as regards promotion/relegation, or has that been decided yet.
If its being cut from a 12 to a 10 will there be no promotion, or will
bottom 2 get automatic relegation and 3rd last plays top of Div1
Student Mullet
03/10/2006, 2:48 PM
Sorry if this is on another post but what will happen the following year
as regards promotion/relegation, or has that been decided yet.
If its being cut from a 12 to a 10 will there be no promotion, or will
bottom 2 get automatic relegation and 3rd last plays top of Div1The document says 3 down and 1 up.
Poor Student
03/10/2006, 3:27 PM
Pete Mahon said in the latest edition of the College Tribune something like Tony McGuirk told someone he knows that Bray were given guarantees they'd be there and the Shamrock Rovers assistant manager told him something similar about themselves.
Pineapple is right, if the criteria are marked like say college exams where over 70% or 80% is a superhuman unachievable score and also that even mediocre efforts get you 20-30% automatically then it will be far harder for teams to make up the off field difference. But if it's working under the assumption that say Belfield = 0 in ground criteria and Tolka = 100% then clubs like UCD are in trouble.
holidaysong
03/10/2006, 5:28 PM
No they don't, at least not under the criteria as set out by the FAI. Their 4 year record is pretty bad, Rovers will rank ahead of them due to cup exploits no matter what happens at this stage and there's no way they'll make up the difference off the field.
This is the bit that really annoys me. The FAI originally said it would be the previous 5 seasons (which would have included our 2002 FAI Cup win) and then later on they brought it down to the previous 4 seasons (which very conveniently omits our cup win). :mad: If I was cynical I might think the FAI doesn't want Dundalk at the party. :eek: Perhaps our great form this season as well as our private takeover is really giving them a headache. I certainly hope it is. :p
Poor Student
03/10/2006, 5:30 PM
holidaysong, there's a very simple reason as to why they reduced the years from 5 to 4. Kildare didn't exist in the first season of that period and they only realised after they released the information.
passerrby
03/10/2006, 5:36 PM
Pete Mahon said in the latest edition of the College Tribune something like Tony McGuirk told someone he knows that Bray were given guarantees they'd be there and the Shamrock Rovers assistant manager told him something similar about themselves.
Pineapple is right, if the criteria are marked like say college exams where over 70% or 80% is a superhuman unachievable score and also that even mediocre efforts get you 20-30% automatically then it will be far harder for teams to make up the off field difference. But if it's working under the assumption that say Belfield = 0 in ground criteria and Tolka = 100% then clubs like UCD are in trouble.
therein lies the problem I think a number of clubs were giving vague promises because otherwise it would not have got through.
holidaysong
03/10/2006, 5:44 PM
holidaysong, there's a very simple reason as to why they reduced the years from 5 to 4. Kildare didn't exist in the first season of that period and they only realised after they released the information.
That shows how infinitely useless the FAI are though. Firstly, it shows that they just randomly chose 5 years to be the right number to reflect a clubs performance in recent years (I wonder if they pulled it out of a hat). Secondly, it shows they didn't even know when it was the last new club had joined when they made the decision. And these are the people who are going to run the league next season and make everything run like clockwork... :rolleyes:
Comic Book Guy
03/10/2006, 8:13 PM
Back on topic, I heard from a friend living in Tipp that St.Michael's (Tipp town) were considering making the move to the First div. How true that is remains to be seen.
I know they have a decent set up but would they really want to make the leap?
Am really looking forward to seeing who (if any) apply.
Read somewhere today that a team from either Kerry or Mayo are the two favourites. But it will all come down to present setup and the ability to upgrade as well as pulling potential in the end.
Also wondering that if those that apply and miss out on the Div 1 place will be offered a place in the A championship since they have shown aspirations to make it to the Eircom League and they could make it up in to the league proper through that. Could also develope and upgrade their facilities along the way also.
pineapple stu
03/10/2006, 9:00 PM
Back on topic, I heard from a friend living in Tipp that St.Michael's (Tipp town) were considering making the move to the First div. How true that is remains to be seen.
I know they have a decent set up but would they really want to make the leap?
Unlikely I'd say, although I'd love to see it seeing as my family's from there and I've been down many a time. Tipp Town's too small to support an eL team, and there's no big towns around to help out either - you're looking at Cashel and Thurles a good 20-30 miles away.
Duffman
03/10/2006, 10:43 PM
That shows how infinitely useless the FAI are though. Firstly, it shows that they just randomly chose 5 years to be the right number to reflect a clubs performance in recent years (I wonder if they pulled it out of a hat). Secondly, it shows they didn't even know when it was the last new club had joined when they made the decision. And these are the people who are going to run the league next season and make everything run like clockwork... :rolleyes:
Is there then merit in deciding to change the whole criteria again due to Dublin City folding? All results from the last 5 (oh sorry 4) years to be expunged and reassessing all records from within that time, negating any points that DCFC had or cup rounds they had won? Idiotic maybe but it was on the cards for this season only. I feel that as a new club coming in it should have been tough luck on Kildare, the one good thing as a Dundalk fan was that good (ish)season that we had in 2002. That was then just exounged totally. I appreciate that the FAI have to draw a line somewhere but it grates mightily that DFC are suffering due to the change in timeframe.
dcfcsteve
03/10/2006, 11:33 PM
Is there then merit in deciding to change the whole criteria again due to Dublin City folding? All results from the last 5 (oh sorry 4) years to be expunged and reassessing all records from within that time, negating any points that DCFC had or cup rounds they had won? Idiotic maybe but it was on the cards for this season only. I feel that as a new club coming in it should have been tough luck on Kildare, the one good thing as a Dundalk fan was that good (ish)season that we had in 2002. That was then just exounged totally. I appreciate that the FAI have to draw a line somewhere but it grates mightily that DFC are suffering due to the change in timeframe.
There are winners and losers no matter where you draw the line, so tough sheet I'm afraid.
2002 was a better year than 2003 for City, for example - we finished higher in the league and won the Cup. So if we're going to make it a fantasy football time-span, I'd like 2002 included and 2003 erased please..... :D
Anyway - if I was a Dundalk fan I'd be more worried about whether the FAI sees a role for 2 clubs in Louth beyond the short to medium term. Tinkering with your average performance over recent years won't stop you paling in comparison to Drogheda, nor would it save you form any deeper/darker plans the FAI may have up their sleeves for representation from Louth...
monutdfc
03/10/2006, 11:46 PM
Anyway - if I was a Dundalk fan I'd be more worried about whether the FAI sees a role for 2 clubs in Louth beyond the short to medium term. Tinkering with your average performance over recent years won't stop you paling in comparison to Drogheda, nor would it save you form any deeper/darker plans the FAI may have up their sleeves for representation from Louth...
But even if Dundalk were to finish 3rd this season, if they win the First next season then they're promoted no matter what the FAI's vision (is that an oxymoron?) is.
harps1954
04/10/2006, 8:57 AM
Sorry if this is on another post but what will happen the following year
as regards promotion/relegation, or has that been decided yet.
If its being cut from a 12 to a 10 will there be no promotion, or will
bottom 2 get automatic relegation and 3rd last plays top of Div1
Took this from the FAI website's on the proposal for the new league. It will show exactly how the next two seasons are to run. Although the FAI are going to increase the prizes money on offer, it is worth noting that to play in the Premier Division in the future, premiership fees will be €17,000 with a further €5,000 to have an 'A' team which is a must for Premier sides. So, this season it cost Premier sides a fee of €10,000 to play in the Premier, in two years time (when the 'A' League runs), it will cost Premier clubs €22,000 - an increase of over €12,000.
Competitions
2007
In 2007 the following competitions will be promoted and run by the FAI National League Committee on behalf of clubs which have entered into a Participation Agreement with the FAI –
- Premiership - 12 teams
- Division 1 – 10 teams
- U-21 – number of entrants to be confirmed
The exact make up of the Premiership and 1st Division for the start of the 2007 season will be decided as a consequence of the Independent Assessment Process, which is detailed in section 4 of this document.
In addition each club will need to have secured the licence required to compete in the competition as provided for in the terms of the Participation Agreement, which is outlined below in section 3. 2007 will see a substantial increase in the level of prize monies being made available to the competitors. An increase in fees Premiership (€17,000) and 1st Division (€8,000) is also proposed. At the end of the 2007 regular season, there will be one automatic promotion (Division 1 winners) and one club automatically relegated (last place in Premiership). In addition, Winner Division 1 to have once-off play off with Winners League Cup for Setanta Cup place (worth €15,000 in 2006). A play off series as outlined below will decide the final place in 2008 Premiership:
• 2nd Div 1 vs. 3rd Div 1 in once-off play off match.
• Club finishing 2nd gets home advantage.
• Winner of 2nd vs. 3rd plays 11th place finisher in Premiership home and away. (1st Division side to have choice of home advantage in 1st or 2nd game of the series).
• The exact details of this play off series may be subject to change as directed by amendments to League Rules
• Winner of Play off series gains final Premiership place for 2008 season.
2008
This is a ‘transitional’ season, which should see the following 3 major developments take shape:
Premiership to be reduced from 12 to 10 clubs for 2009 season
Proposed inaugural running of ‘A’ Championship (see below).
Age grade National Competition currently run as U 21 League is to change to U 20 grade.
In 2008 the following competitions will be promoted and run by the FAI National League Committee on behalf of clubs which have entered into a Participation Agreement with the FAI –
- Premiership - 12 teams
- Division 1 – 10 teams
- ‘A Championship’ - entry for non-League entities by application only => number of entrants to be confirmed
- U-20 – number of non-League entrants to be confirmed (all League clubs must have team)
Premiership & 1st Division (2008)
At the beginning of the season the Premiership will comprise 12 teams and the 1st Division will have 10 teams. At the end of the season, 3 clubs will be automatically relegated and 1 promoted. No play off series is required because automatic relegation and promotion will apply. Clubs finishing 12th, 11th & 10th in the Premiership will be relegated to compete in 1st Division 2009. 1st Division Winners will be promoted and compete in Premiership in 2009 season.
Inaugural Running of ‘A’ Championship
The ‘A’ Championship outlined here, for initiation in 2008 season, developed from the accepted need to link underage competition, national league standard competition and other structures operating at non-professional level, builds on the need to ‘enliven’ the prospect of relegation from 1st Division and the objectives of the FAI to provide player and organisational pathways to the highest level of the game in Ireland.
Participation of non-league organisations / entities / clubs will be by application. Applicants will be expected to meet certain criteria as part of their developmental pathway towards full licensing compliance. Such criteria will be set out in a ‘developmental’ licence to be generated in conjunction with the Licensing Scheme. The ‘Developmental Licence’ process for participants in ‘A’ Championship will provide guidance and act as a stepping stone for clubs with ambitions to progress to National League Status. The ‘A’ Championship will comprise 20-30 teams depending on take-up from Div 1 clubs and strategic needs of FAI. The cost of entry to the A Championship will be €5,000 per team. Proposals for A Championship require further work. It is proposed that a Project Group would be established as a sub-group of the FAI National League Committee to fully develop issues such as the developmental licence, registrations, integration with other competitions and so on. Such proposals would be finalised in early 2007 to allow non-League clubs / entities to prepare fully for 2008 season. A forum for those entities to contribute to the deliberations of the National League Committee and to clubs’ deliberations at Convention should also be looked at by this Group. Entrants
How the ‘A’ Championship might work, depending on no of entries, is outlined below. These includes reserve teams from Premiership (compulsory for Premiership clubs to have reserve / ‘A’ team). Groups could also include reserve teams from 1st Division clubs (it will be optional for 1st Division clubs to enter ‘A’ Championship).
Top sides in each group will compete to win ‘A Championship’ outright. In the event that Group winners compete for existing League clubs, the A Championship Qualifier series will be staged between top non-League sides in each Group, which finish no lower than 4th in the group. The play off for the Qualifier spot will mirror the championship play offs (in terms of no. groups, no. games etc).
In the event that only one non-League side finishes 4th or higher in its group it will be deemed to be the ‘A Qualifier’ and will proceed directly to the promotion / relegation play off with last place finisher in 1st Division. ‘A Qualifier’ to meet last in Div 1 to decide final spot in subsequent season’s 1st Division. In the event that no non-League side secures 4th place or higher in its group and thus no A Championship Qualifier emerges, the decision to reinstate the last place finisher in 1st Division will rest with the FAI National League Committee and be contingent on that club retaining its licence / adhering to Participation Agreement.
As per the overarching principles governing these competitions, a club new to National League is eligible to take up its place only if meeting Club Licensing requirements in order to enter into a Participation Agreement with the FAI.
U 20 League (from U 21) to compete for the Tony O’Neill Memorial Cup
This competition will operate strictly as an Under 20 competition. Sanctions will be imposed for breaches of the age grading. Entrants (non-league entities are listed here for modelling purposes only).
10 U 20 teams from Premiership (compulsory for Premiership clubs to have U 20 team)
10-12 teams from 1st Division (compulsory for 1st Division clubs to have U 20 team)
6 non-National League clubs (e.g. Inisowen, Mayo league, Belgrove, Mullingar)
3rd Level Institutions (e.g. UCD, DU, UCC, UL, LIT, IT Blanchardstown, IT Tallaght) Academies (e.g. FÁS Academy Castlebar)
League groups and set up will depend on number of entries. It may be played on home & away basis in large group or round robin matches in smaller groups leading to play off series v other group etc.
Based on 2006 U21 League there would be 2 groups of 10.
Organisers would look to provide a playing season of 18 matches.
This League will run September – April and initially matches would take place at weekends but progressing to midweek games.
Incentive package (including prize money) 2008 (proposed). The Prize funds / incentive package for 2008 will be €823,000 including €20,000 for winners of ‘A’ Championship, Clubs Promotions Officers subsidies and TV fees.
2009
In 2009 the following competitions will be promoted and run by the FAI National League
Committee on behalf of clubs which have entered into a Participation Agreement with the FAI –
- Premiership - 10 teams
- Division 1 – 12 teams
- A Championship – entry for non-League entities by application only => number of
entrants to be confirmed
- U-20 – number of entrants to be confirmed
Movement between Premiership & 1st Division will be via one automatic promotion and one automatic relegation place (subject to licence) and a play off series.
Premiership – Last place (10th) will be relegated.
8th & 9th place finishers will enter into a play off. Winner retains its place in Premiership. Loser goes to play off series against winner of 2nd & 3rd place play off from 1st Division.
1st Division Winners will gain promotion.
2nd and 3rd in 1st Division will play off.
Winners of that once-off match will play loser of 8th vs. 9th in Premiership home and away to decide on final Premiership place.
As per 2007 - the exact details of the play off series may be subject to change as directed by amendments to League Rules
Movement between 1st Division and ‘A’ Championship will be via a promotion / relegation play off between last place (12th in 1st Division) and ‘A’ Championship Qualifier (non-League entity) seeking promotion to 1st Division.
dcfcsteve
04/10/2006, 9:30 AM
But even if Dundalk were to finish 3rd this season, if they win the First next season then they're promoted no matter what the FAI's vision (is that an oxymoron?) is.
True. But let's not forget that the league is now about 'inviting' members.
I can't see them asking an established club like Dundalk to just disappear, though, but I likewise wouldn't be surprised if they have an agenda re a small county like Louth that they'd like to follow if they can.
Poor Student
04/10/2006, 9:34 AM
True. But let's not forget that the league is now about 'inviting' members.
As of yet I can't see any logic to this bit. It's rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. The natural order will be restored in a couple of seasons anyway. If they promote a team that isn't ready, they'll be in trouble and if they relegate a team above the bottom they'll be back provided their squad isn't utterly decimated. If the latter is the case then it's disgraceful that any club had that inflicted on them.
holidaysong
04/10/2006, 2:34 PM
True. But let's not forget that the league is now about 'inviting' members.
I can't see them asking an established club like Dundalk to just disappear, though, but I likewise wouldn't be surprised if they have an agenda re a small county like Louth that they'd like to follow if they can.
I don't think that Louth being the smallest county in the country has much to do with it. Dundalk and Drogheda Utd don't battle on a common fanbase area like the Dublin clubs (particularly Bohs and Shels) do. You know as well as I do that eliminating one of the Louth clubs in the long term isn't going to significantly increase (if at all increase) the support of the other club. There is definitely room in the Super-dooper Premiership for two Louth clubs and the Louth derby, one of (if not) THE best in the country.
ciaraa
04/10/2006, 2:49 PM
I don't think that Louth being the smallest county in the country has much to do with it. Dundalk and Drogheda Utd don't battle on a common fanbase area like the Dublin clubs (particularly Bohs and Shels) do. You know as well as I do that eliminating one of the Louth clubs in the long term isn't going to significantly increase (if at all increase) the support of the other club. There is definitely room in the Super-dooper Premiership for two Louth clubs and the Louth derby, one of (if not) THE best in the country.
Yeah definitely agree there! Its THE best in the country with the possible exception of Harps - Derry. Forget these "dublin derby" 10-a-penny matches... sure they happen every weekend...
The Louth derby is safe as houses.
As of yet I can't see any logic to this bit. It's rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. The natural order will be restored in a couple of seasons anyway. If they promote a team that isn't ready, they'll be in trouble and if they relegate a team above the bottom they'll be back provided their squad isn't utterly decimated. If the latter is the case then it's disgraceful that any club had that inflicted on them.
You've a good point there, but I think the key this time around is to enforce standards so that from now on off the field criteria must be met to make the premier division. This should be made transparent and straightforward. of course, if licensing was done properly that'd cover that, but that's another day's work.
Dundalk and Drogheda Utd don't battle on a common fanbase area like the Dublin clubs (particularly Bohs and Shels) do.
I agree.
There is definitely room in the Super-dooper Premiership for two Louth clubs and the Louth derby, one of (if not) THE best in the country.
There might be room for both clubs but sure won't Drogs be in Meath soon so no more Louth derby. :D
holidaysong
04/10/2006, 2:57 PM
There might be room for both clubs but sure won't Drogs be in Meath soon so no more Louth derby. :D
Well there goes that idea! :D :D.
Surely population will have to be taken into account, louth may well be the smallest county in size but its in the top 10 for population, last census ealier this year, it was 118,000, thats bigger than monaghan/cavan combined.
also re derbies, these games conssistenly draw min of 4,000
2004 fai cup
oriel 4,000
utd park replay 4,500
2005 cup
oriel 4,100
Let us in please !
bluemovie
04/10/2006, 4:28 PM
I can just see it if a Mayo team joins the league. They'll have huge crowds for the first match and will tell everyone that they're the best fans in the world. Then they'll go a couple of goals down and everyone will leave at half-time. Well that's what happens their GAA fans anyway.
Yeah, they'd come into the league, make the cup final in their first year and their fans would get all high and mighty but their team would collapse to a 10-0 defeat with the usual 'Mayo Final Day Head Staggers' striking again.
EalingGreen
04/10/2006, 7:20 PM
I'd consider the chances of Cliftonville joining the EL next year to be extremly low.
As well as the reasons you list, Steve, AFAIK, such a move would have to be sanctioned by the IFA, so there's absolutely NO chance - even if C'ville wanted it (which I guess they don't actually).
EalingGreen
04/10/2006, 7:31 PM
God help us if there ever was an end to partition. They might put Derry down in it's medieval 'Derrie' form as well.....? :)
Actually, if that day should ever come, I feel there's a better chance of the Office of National Statistics in Whitehall naming (keeping) it as Londonderry, though you may be right about Laois reverting to its proper name (and Offaly, as well, for that matter) ;)
dcfcsteve
04/10/2006, 10:39 PM
As well as the reasons you list, Steve, AFAIK, such a move would have to be sanctioned by the IFA, so there's absolutely NO chance - even if C'ville wanted it (which I guess they don't actually).
This issue raises it whorry old head again !
If a team in one footballing jurisdiction wants to play in the competitions of another footballing jurisdiction, it would be illegal under European Competition and Restraint of Trade Laws for their home jurisdiction ro prevent them from doing so. There is legal precedent for this with the Welsh clubs vs the Welsh FA in 1994 (Lord Blackburn's High Court ruling).
So if Cliftonville wanted to join the EL, the IFA would have no legal means of preventing them. What would scupper such a move, however, would be if the EL clubs/FAI voted not to accept uch an extra-judicial club into their league through their usual procedures for deliberating upon new joiners.
Derry City needed IFA permission in 1984/5, because that period pre-dated the Maastricht Treaty in 1992 that introduced the competition and restraint of trade rules that are now in-force.
Fact ! :D
I usually have to spend hours explaining and debating this issue to the death every time it rises once every 6 months, and I can't be arsed to do it again. A former FIFA ruling committee member and Welsh FA President, confirmed the above directly to me last year, so I've no interest in debating it with anyone who will undoubtedly know less about world football than that individual.
:D
dcfcsteve
04/10/2006, 10:42 PM
Actually, if that day should ever come, I feel there's a better chance of the Office of National Statistics in Whitehall naming (keeping) it as Londonderry, though you may be right about Laois reverting to its proper name (and Offaly, as well, for that matter) ;)
Well - as the unclear legal status of the crown's insistence upon using the name 'Londonderry', despite the democratic name change of the Council in 1984, is up for challenge in the next couple of months in the High Court, you may well find the ONS having to resort to mis-spellings of 'Derry' in future to ease the taste of any sour grapes they may be made to swallow on the issue... :D
:p
Calcio Jack
05/10/2006, 9:11 AM
The easy answer to this issue is rather than try and find some pub team from the likes of Mayo , Kerry etc that wouldn't bring anything beneficial to the league, is to ask Dery to witdraw and suggest that they apply to return to play in the league in their own country... surely that is the logical thing to do... would also have the added benefit of freeing us from having to listen to the incessant whinning from "Mrs" Kenny.
Red&White
05/10/2006, 9:18 AM
Hark, do I hear the first wind-up of the day?
Shedzer
10/10/2006, 4:06 PM
Word around here is tha its either Carrick United or the Statoil FAI junior cup winners Waterford Crystal.;)
in fairness, Waterford Utd are only average, why another team from there??
dcfcsteve
11/10/2006, 10:17 AM
Hark, do I hear the first wind-up of the day?
And not even a good one at that. He must still be waking up, poor lad...
Lim till i die
11/10/2006, 11:48 AM
And not even a good one at that. He must still be waking up, poor lad...
That was six days ago your obviously not that wide awake either :p
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