Biased Dublin Refs

[EireBadBoy]

Wh...what? I'll tell you what Daniel, you address me in something more closely approximating to the language of your beloved sovereign and I might deign to proffer a response.

In our beloved Sovereigns language could you explain what or who Dublin City are/were? ********!

I'm suprised the irony of you posting in English passed you by in the first place you Anglicised hure! Now, have you not got a dictionary you should be reading because your big words are very impressive.

[dahamsta]

Rubbish moved here (http://foot.ie/showthread.php?t=41942). Keep it up lads, I'm looking forward to bannng ye.

[OneRedArmy]

Tip for OneRedArmy, in that incident the referee applied the rules, what do you want him to do - ignore them ? Make up your mind !How about sending him off for treatment when the challenge occurred & the bleeding starter, not coincidentally at a random time later when defending a set piece

[Aaron]

Everyone has their own opinion on this and MHO is that refs are biased no question!! No amount of barking at how one ref done this or that will change my thinking!!

[pete]

1. Pat Jennings red card was never a sending off in a million years!! Not only was the man goin away from goal but there were two derry defenders covering.


100% definite red card. The keeper was 10 yards outside his box & his hand prevented the ball from advancing towards the goal. What other decision could the ref give.



2. David fordes red card was never a red card!! Again refs being biased towards dublin teams!


Only saw the replay & brainless goalkeeping of the highest degree. Keepers have a penalty area for a reason. What was he doing outside the box? What other decision could the ref give? You cannot leave players off because they thick.

[bohs til i die]

Everyone has their own opinion on this and MHO is that refs are biased no question!! No amount of barking at how one ref done this or that will change my thinking!!

but your only saying they are biased about decisions that have gone against Derry, not the decisions that have gone your way

[micls]

100% definite red card. The keeper was 10 yards outside his box & his hand prevented the ball from advancing towards the goal. What other decision could the ref give.



Only saw the replay & brainless goalkeeping of the highest degree. Keepers have a penalty area for a reason. What was he doing outside the box? What other decision could the ref give? You cannot leave players off because they thick.

I think in your post you mixed up the two Pete but about the Jennings one i think it was a free kick and a yellow card. It doesnt matter if the keeper was outside his box, the rules are the same for keepers outside the box as a defender.

If it had been a defender made that tackle with the keeper and another defender behind him the ref would not have given a red card. Poor call, should have consulted the linesman

[Aaron]

but your only saying they are biased about decisions that have gone against Derry, not the decisions that have gone your way


Thats prob because when we play a dublin club with a dublin ref we get very few if any decisions our way at all!! There are refs who are genuinely ****e but there are also those who are genuinely biased!!

[Aaron]

Naw because we dont have biased refs towards us when playing dublin clubs with dublin refs

[Paddyfield]

Last year, lowly Galway United had to go to Turners Cross for a Cup replay. Local ref, Alan Kelly officiated. Extra Time seemed likely as the minnows from the First Divison were standing up to Premier Divison leaders.

And then City got a penalty for nothing. The rest is history.

Cork referee bias? If there was a ref from Galway, Sligo, Derry, wherever, then he (or indeed she) should not be the ref.

Same can be said of Dublin refs when Dublin teams are playing. It's an age old story.

[Aaron]

big deal. get a life, its football. teams get screwed every week one way or the other. nothing to do with biased dub refs, just poor officials. I can understand derry fans whinging if you were in relagation trouble but you are flying high so big deal. o ye, good luck in paris.


All this crap about "its football" really gets on my wick. Crap refereeing and biased refereeing is part of the reason why teams live or survive. And it is a big deal!!


Last year, lowly Galway United had to go to Turners Cross for a Cup replay. Local ref, Alan Kelly officiated. Extra Time seemed likely as the minnows from the First Divison were standing up to Premier Divison leaders.

And then City got a penalty for nothing. The rest is history.

Cork referee bias? If there was a ref from Galway, Sligo, Derry, wherever, then he (or indeed she) should not be the ref.

Same can be said of Dublin refs when Dublin teams are playing. It's an age old story.

This shud never have been allowed to happen! There shud always be a rule, even at that common sense shud prevail as refs from a city shud not be allowed to officiate in games involving teams from the same city as the ref. The English Premiership is an example; Mark Clattenburg is from Newcastle, when they are playing, he is probably at the other side of the country officiating in another game. The FA Cup is another example, Mike Dean was scheduled to ref the FA Cup final but was pulled out because he was from the wirral and Liverpool reached the final. This was to avoid any chance of the ref being biased! Things like this only make people like Roddy Collins and Dermot Keely who criticise the league for being amateur sound as if they are right! And none of us want that......do we?

[John83]

I'm sick of this pro-Dublin conspiracy nonsense. I'm from Dublin, and I'd as soon shaft Bohs as Cork. I have no particular dislike of either, but the fact that Bohs are from Dublin would mean sweet FA to me.

[Peadar]

Monday nite and tonite proved that referees are corrupt. They are clearly favouring dublin teams against teams outside of the city.
There's a difference between being corrupt and being incompetant!


How do you explain the multitude of bizarre decisions in Dublin derbies then.

And I would expect many a Gypsy curse to come your way citing the Devlin goal that wasn't and the Fabio goal that was.

So it's true, Bray and Drogheda are in Dublin? I knew it! :D


This shud never have been allowed to happen! There shud always be a rule, even at that common sense shud prevail as refs from a city shud not be allowed to officiate in games involving teams from the same city as the ref.
That's complete nonsense! There are more clubs and more referees from Dublin. Are we to stagger the league so that we cancel games for Dublin clubs, simply because there's no referee from a neutral county available?
Why do people think that referee's are fans of a club, just because they're from the same county? If anything, the very fact that they decided to become a referee would suggest that they dislike football and want to harm it.

The Galway thing in the cup is just sour grapes. The game was replayed at short notice, during the week and Alan Kelly was available. Galway were never going to win anything so crying over that game for well over a year is just plain sad.

[Aaron]

Why do people think that referee's are fans of a club, just because they're from the same county?

I nor anyone else never said refs were fans of any particular clubs!! I said they were biased towards clubs!!


The Galway thing in the cup is just sour grapes. The game was replayed at short notice, during the week and Alan Kelly was available. Galway were never going to win anything so crying over that game for well over a year is just plain sad.

Things like this show people like Collins and Keely know wot they are talking about. The League should have prepared themselves incase there was a replay and assigned a ref for that game at notice before the tie. We all preach at how we think Collins and Keely talk the biggest load of balls but every time things like this happen, they sound more and more correct about this league!!

[EnDai]

Funny all the Dubs here believe there is no biased refs, just bad.

Dub referees are rotten to the core, when refereeing Shels games.

Read a report on the game on the Shels site and you will read that Tuite also missed a cert penalty when Heary handed in the box.

But that's not biased just bad.

He could have given Jenning a yellow card, but give him a Red one

But that's not biased just bad.

He could have given Forde a yellow card, but give him a Red one

But that's not biased just bad.

He could have given Brennan a yellow card, but give him a Red one

But that's not biased just bad.

He could have given Heary a Red card, but he ignored the punch he threw.

But that's not biased just bad.

ALL these decisions went Shels way

But that's not biased just bad

http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/5580/rotten1be7.jpg

Don't forget Sean Hargan. Could have picked up about 6 yellow cards over the 2 games recently, got one. Should have been sent off in both games, early in both games aswell (first half in both could have gone). Stayed on the pitch for both.

Clearly another case of someone favour Shelbourne.

[BohDiddley]

Piece in the Sindo today claiming Dub ref bias, on the basis of the Shels-Derry debacle.
Neatly evades any mention of the serial atrocities committed against Bohs this season.

[Dr.Nightdub]

Two examples involving Pats:

First one was last night, us away to Sligo, ref was Hancock - from Dublin. Their winger was about three yards off when he received a pass, he crossed into the box, they scored and their fightback was on.

Second one was a cup game a few years ago, ref was that stumpy little bald tosser from Dublin, now retired from ref'ing and whose name I have thankfully forgotten (possibly Whelan but don't hold me to that). Pats are 1-0 up heading into the half time break, Ozo gets chopped in half by an opponent, opponent lands on top of him, Ozo pushes him off angrily, Ozo gets red card, everyone knows how influential he was for us, we end up losing. The game? Away to Derry in the Brandywell.

[Aaron]

Ozo pushes him off angrily

Pushed him off angrily, he hit him a slap in the face FFS!!!

[Aaron]

any link??

[OneRedArmy]

100% definite red card. The keeper was 10 yards outside his box & his hand prevented the ball from advancing towards the goal. What other decision could the ref give.



Only saw the replay & brainless goalkeeping of the highest degree. Keepers have a penalty area for a reason. What was he doing outside the box? What other decision could the ref give? You cannot leave players off because they thick.Learn the rules of the game and then come back and join the discussion about how they are applied.

3 word "clear goalscoring opportunity". Doesn't matter if the keeper is 2 yards outside the box or 20 and it doesn't matter whether its a handball or a trip.

[sonofstan]

Sweeney's article;
T has long been an article of faith among Eircom League fans outside the capital that some big Dublin teams have benefitted from poor refereeing decisions. Back in the days of the League of Ireland, Shamrock Rovers were the top Dublin team and the chief beneficiaries. These days it's Shelbourne who seem to get a perpetual rub of the green.

This could not have been more graphically demonstrated than it was on Friday night during the biggest match of the season so far in domestic soccer.

I should make it clear that I'm not accusing Paul Tuite (Friday night's referee) of anything other than making a terrible call, in good faith, at a crucial moment. With second-placed Derry City leading 2-0 at Tolka Park and apparently cruising to victory, their goalkeeper Pat Jennings was sent off for bringing down Jason Byrne.

The fact that there were a couple of Derry defenders in covering position meant the offence looked worth no more than a yellow card. Don't just take my word for it, that was the opinion of Shelbourne stalwart Mick Neville after the game.

The net result of this howler by the referee was that the game changed completely. Derry did not have a goalkeeper on the bench so they were forced to put striker Stephen O'Flynn between the sticks. So, in addition to being a man short they had no recognised 'keeper. Shels duly scored two goals, neither of which would have gone in had Jennings been there, and earned a draw which could be crucial in the title race.

City manager Stephen Kenny was understandably apoplectic after the final whistle speaking about Derry being "isolated in the North West," with no one to fight their corner and vowing that his players would rise above it. Kenny just happens to be the best young manager the League has ever produced, having wrought miracles on a budget, first with Longford and now with Derry.

He is not one of life's complainers, but Kenny knows which way the cookie tends to crumble. Fans of Derry, of Sligo Rovers, of Cork City and Finn Harps have witnessed a series of appalling decisions over the years, decisions which have had a material effect on the destination of honours.

Mistakes happen. But this mistake might well cost Derry the league title.

Had they won in Tolka, as they undoubtedly would have if that red card hadn't been so hastily flashed, they'd have been just four points behind Shelbourne with three games in hand. Now the gap is seven. You can be sure the scheduling of those extra games won't do the Candystripes any favours.

Every season there is much big talk from the likes of Shels about the necessity to improve the Eircom League. But one obvious flaw is never addressed. The standard of refereeing is a total joke. It doesn't matter what structural tinkering you do with the league if you can't guarantee the highest standards of refereeing for the teams on the pitch.

After Friday Derry might be wondering if they'd get better treatment in the Irish League. And perhaps, just perhaps, the big Dublin clubs won't mind them wondering.

[el punter]

Sweeney's article;


Looks to me like Mr Sweeney was somewhat inspired by this thread and just padded out a few of the posts.

[razor]

If Kenny had put another keeper on the bench the other night then Derry would have probably won and he wouldn't have to keep harping on about refs.
Think they are more than likely crap as opposed to biased.Always thought Tuite wasn't too bad, Stokes is awful.

[Sheridan]

Pats are 1-0 up heading into the half time break, Ozo gets chopped in half by an opponent, opponent lands on top of him, Ozo pushes him off angrily, Ozo gets red card, everyone knows how influential he was for us, we end up losing. The game? Away to Derry in the Brandywell.

Pffffff. I'll see your red card and raise you a penalty for a handball in the box that wasn't a handball and wasn't in the box back in 2004 (Ref: D McKeon - Dublin.)

[sonofstan]

Pffffff. I'll see your red card and raise you a penalty for a handball in the box that wasn't a handball and wasn't in the box back in 2004 (Ref: D McKeon - Dublin.)

Sorry, but it's going to be hard to beat our three aces, all from this year - the penalty that wasn't a penalty and was 3 yards outside the box (McKeon, in Drogheda), the goal that was a goal but wasn't given because Alan Kelly thought it instead defied the laws of physics (Paul Devlin in the Carlisle grounds) and the 'goal' that was given that never came close to crossing the line (Drogs at Dalymount)

[Sheridan]

I should have clarified that Mr McKeon's spatial confusion favoured Derry City over Dublin City in a fixture at the Brandywell.

[dfx-]

Is this thread still going?:eek:

[Sheridan]

Oh, the pathology has yet to attain its fastigium. Observe this case study (http://foot.ie/showthread.php?t=24631&page=3)for a stark demonstration of just how intellectually debilitating the condition can become.


Those officials were paid to give shels that game. I have no doubt whatsoever- I'll swear it on everything I own. It was a fix. Whether shels bought him, or Setanta paid him off to make the final game more interesting i don't know, but the goal aside (I haven't seen it on tv yet) he gave every possible (and some impossible) decisions to shels. Robbery of the highest order. The fact that EVERY player (shels included) played on afterwards is proof enough IMO

Message for Shels and their fans- don't bother calling George a cheat after tonight, ok?

[Aaron]

Oh, the pathology has yet to attain its fastigium. Observe this case study for a stark demonstration of just how intellectually debilitating the condition can become.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Éanna
Those officials were paid to give shels that game. I have no doubt whatsoever- I'll swear it on everything I own. It was a fix. Whether shels bought him, or Setanta paid him off to make the final game more interesting i don't know, but the goal aside (I haven't seen it on tv yet) he gave every possible (and some impossible) decisions to shels. Robbery of the highest order. The fact that EVERY player (shels included) played on afterwards is proof enough IMO

Message for Shels and their fans- don't bother calling George a cheat after tonight, ok?


Most quotes bar the personal attacks from cork fans were true! They wur robbed and typical Shels try defend the fact they got away with an extremely shocking decision by the linesman. Exact same with the Drogs goal against bohs a few weeks ago! I am pointing out here that the standard of refereeing is brutal but when it comes to regional teams playing shels or some other dublin clubs with a dublin ref in charge they are either robbed by shocking refereeing or made to fight for every decision, unlike the dubliners who have it spoon fed to them! Its disgraceful!!

[OneRedArmy]

Is this thread still going?:eek:Is your ground built yet?

[Peadar]

(Ref: D McKeon - Dublin.)

That name pops up quite a lot.

[bigmac]

Sorry, but it's going to be hard to beat our three aces, all from this year - the penalty that wasn't a penalty and was 3 yards outside the box (McKeon, in Drogheda), the goal that was a goal but wasn't given because Alan Kelly thought it instead defied the laws of physics (Paul Devlin in the Carlisle grounds) and the 'goal' that was given that never came close to crossing the line (Drogs at Dalymount)

I'll raise you a referee ignoring his lines(wo)man's flag and then sending off two players for protesting!

[BohsPartisan]

I'll raise you a referee ignoring his lines(wo)man's flag and then sending off two players for protesting!

A referee making three correct descisions hardly counts now does it?

[sonofstan]

I'll raise you a referee ignoring his lines(wo)man's flag and then sending off two players for protesting!

I think we can see that one (to keep this creaky metaphor going) since the same thing happened to us in the RSC last year - although at least our players had the sense not to go pushing officials around the place

[bigmac]

I think we can see that one (to keep this creaky metaphor going) since the same thing happened to us in the RSC last year - although at least our players had the sense not to go pushing officials around the place

yeah, see my reply in the thread on it for a more detailed exposition - just pointing out that there are crap loads of incidents where one team feels hard done by but it doesn't mean that the refs are biased at all.

[David]

cork played shels in the setanta cup last year and wen a header went towards goal and clearly didnt cross the line, the ref(Dave Mckeown, weres he from??) have a goal!!! HHHMMMMMMM!!! Is that poor refereeing or biased? I think u know my answer!!

Was that not an Irish League referee. I think it was Davy Malcolm but not sure.

[David]

The rules are very clear - with the playing running away from goal and 2 City defenders behind the keeper when the incident happened, Jennings should've received a yellow card and a free kick against, but not a sending off. I don't give a fcuk about anyone's personal opinions on this - the rules are very clear on what should have happened. End of story.



Are the rules clear though? I could be wrong but I think the fact that players were covering is irrelevant and it is a red card if a player stops a clear goalscoring opportunity with foul play.

[David]

That name pops up quite a lot.


The worst referee that I have ever seen and with the Irish League refs that is saying something.

[OneRedArmy]

Are the rules clear though? I could be wrong but I think the fact that players were covering is irrelevant and it is a red card if a player stops a clear goalscoring opportunity with foul play.Covering players generally mean its interpreted as not a clear goalscoring opportunity.

[bohs til i die]

Covering players generally mean its interpreted as not a clear goalscoring opportunity.

define a clear goalscoring opportunity?

Would Jason Byrne have been able to get to the ball and shoot for goal with the keeper AWOL?

IMO thats a clear goalscoring opportunity ......

[bigmac]

define a clear goalscoring opportunity?

Would Jason Byrne have been able to get to the ball and shoot for goal with the keeper AWOL?

IMO thats a clear goalscoring opportunity ......

good point - an outfield player (or two) covering is not the same as akeeper or keeper and defender covering.

[seand]

The rules state (among other criteria) that for a professional foul the player must be moving towards goal, so Derry were absolutely robbed on Friday.

While I'd like to agree that its a Dublin ref conspiracy, can you really comprehend the FAI/League/referees having the ability to organise something on that scale? Yes referees giving shocking decisions against non-Dublin teams, they also give shocking decisions against Dublin teams- a simple example is Bohs suffered grieviously at Bray and Drogs (or are both of those also Dublin teams ;-) )

[bigmac]

can we have a poll on this maybe?

do you believe that EL referees are
(a) incompetent but basically unbiased
(b) incompetent and biased towards certain teams
(c) excellent and unbiased
(d) excellent but biased towards certain teams

[bohs til i die]

Most quotes bar the personal attacks from cork fans were true! They wur robbed and typical Shels try defend the fact they got away with an extremely shocking decision by the linesman. Exact same with the Drogs goal against bohs a few weeks ago! I am pointing out here that the standard of refereeing is brutal but when it comes to regional teams playing shels or some other dublin clubs with a dublin ref in charge they are either robbed by shocking refereeing or made to fight for every decision, unlike the dubliners who have it spoon fed to them! Its disgraceful!!


Drogheda v Bohs, June 2nd 2006
- Drogheda awarded a penalty outside the area
Ref: Dave McKeon


Bray v Bohs, August 11th 2006
- Paul Devlin scores, goal kick awarded as the officials dont see it
- Bohs fined €250 after Gareth Farrelly dismissed from dugout for arguing about that decision [that fact that he shouldnt have been there is irrelevant], we still got fined for our manager arguing over an INCORRECT decision
Ref: Alan Kelly

Bohs v Drogheda, September 1st 2006
http://irishfootballonline.com/clubs.php?club=Bohemians&newsid=5289
Check out the top picture.
Ref: Anthony Buttimer

We have had 3 plain WRONG decisions given against us, Derry fans are arguing over referee's interpretations of the rules.

[Peadar]

Bohs v Drogheda, September 1st 2006
http://irishfootballonline.com/clubs.php?club=Bohemians&newsid=5289
Check out the top picture.
Ref: Anthony Buttimer.

The assistant referee gave that goal though, didn't he?



We have had 3 plain WRONG decisions given against us, Derry fans are arguing over referee's interpretations of the rules.

I agree with you 100%
The referee has a call to make on the spot and he does, it's about opinion. The decisions against Bohs this season simply beggar belief.
Like I said about Stokes sending Devine off v Longball in the Cup, he had a call to make and it's hard to argue about that.

From what I've seen of the two Derry keepers getting sent off, I think both decisions were right. Failing to spot the antics of Heary is simply a matter of too much going on at the one time. Easy to spot when you've got a load of cameras in the ground, not so easy to spot if you're on the pitch.

I certainly think that Stokes does his best, and is usually fair. Certainly not biased. Dave McKeon is quite simply incomptetent!

[bohs til i die]

The assistant referee gave that goal though, didn't he?



Buttimer was at the edge of the penalty area and should ahve been able to see the ball in the middle of the 6 yard box, but it was the assistant who gave the goal, think his name is Ian Ward

[dcfcsteve]

Are the rules clear though? I could be wrong but I think the fact that players were covering is irrelevant and it is a red card if a player stops a clear goalscoring opportunity with foul play.

But how can it be considered a "clear goal-scoring opportunity" if :

a) The attacking player is moving away from goal at the time; and
b) There are 2 other players covering behind the player involved in the foul ??

How can you be a cert, or even likely, to score when you're running away from goal and you still have another 2 players to get the ball past/around ??:confused:

[David]

But how can it be considered a "clear goal-scoring opportunity" if :

a) The attacking player is moving away from goal at the time; and
b) There are 2 other players covering behind the player involved in the foul ??

How can you be a cert, or even likely, to score when you're running away from goal and you still have another 2 players to get the ball past/around ??:confused:

I was not speaking about any incident in particular. I only seen the start of the Shels-Derry game the other night so did not see the sending off. Even if there are players covering it could still be a clear goalscoring opportunity though. I take your point about going away from the goal.

[Peadar]

But how can it be considered a "clear goal-scoring opportunity" if :

a) The attacking player is moving away from goal at the time

I've said this elsewhere, Steve, but Jennings is going away from goal, Byrne is going towards the goal, by trying to round the keeper.

Be objective and consider Jennings missing Byrne completely and landing on his arse, while Byrne continued, in the same direction with the ball.

You've plenty more games left to win the league.
This incident is only a setback. Build a bridge, get over it!

[bohs til i die]

But how can it be considered a "clear goal-scoring opportunity" if :

a) The attacking player is moving away from goal at the time; and
b) There are 2 other players covering behind the player involved in the foul ??

How can you be a cert, or even likely, to score when you're running away from goal and you still have another 2 players to get the ball past/around ??:confused:



Would a striker in possession of the ball with two defenders who CANNOT handle the ball to beat be considered a CLEAR GOALSCORING OPPORTUNITY?

In my opinion it is a clear goalscoring opportunity.

If a centre half fouls a striker who would then only have the goalkeeper to beat, would the centre half be considered to have prevented a CLEAR GOALSCORING OPPORTUNITY despite the fact the striker would still have to get the ball past an opposition player?

Yes he would, and a red card would be the result according to the rules.

So two defenders covering the AWOL goalkeeper is the same in my opinion as having a goalkeeper in position.


The striker doesnt have to be denied an open goal for it to be classed as a clear goal-scoring opportunity.