Aiden McGeady

[SkStu]

Here Im not one for sticking up for Scotland but come on tae feck mate, how can anybody fae Ireland call Glasgow a sh!thole. it beggars belief.

Apart from the odd hun tap you see kicking about the place, Glasgow is one of the best cities to live in in the whole of the UK.

hook. line. sinker. :) ya radge cant.

[The Fly]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/2010/08/10/spartak-moscow-boss-valeri-karpin-insists-10m-mcgeady-deal-is-right-move-despite-criticism-from-supporters-86908-22477352/

[Sullivinho]

"And Karpin fell in love with the winger over the starters during their first evening out."

First dates can be so awkward.

[Closed Account 2]

Moscow in November is about the last place anyone would want to be (and that is when I came across Roma in Red Square who were there for a Champions League game). I don't know how anyone could play in the conditions. It was painfully cold. Its not just learning a language - its also learning a new alphabet and even though I was really only in the main tourist area of Moscow, there were no roman signs on anything. I was also unable to buy a map to get around. Luckily I had a bit of a map from a magazine that I had taken off the plane. (I was only on a stop over). I've been in a lot of countries (including China), and I would rate it as being the most difficult to get around.

Really? I would say the opposite, I did the transiberian over 3 months in 2008, I found China pretty difficult the alphabet was very difficult to understand and bears zero relationship to latin (western) letters. Pinyin was useful but only really was available in Beijing and even then only in the tourist areas. In Moscow there are some Latin-alphabet based signs (more than say Kiev, Sofia, St. Petersburg) it's not perfect but even after 2-3 weeks there he will have grasped most of the Cyrillic alphabet in terms of reading menus etc. Moscow is cold in winter but it always has been and the city is geared up for it, trains are heated, shopping centers are undergound etc, the football season ends in October / November...


Gotta love Trap's quotes on the possible McGeady move:

“I think Russia is too far and the championship is not easy. I want to ask him if he is ready psychologically, because McGeady is a very sensitive man and he is very young. Maybe it is a great opportunity, though, and I will be happy for him if he is sure he wants to go. If he is convinced, then okay.”


Really? I read it as wise council from a man who knows the mindset of his players & knows that a move to Russia could be a disaster. Can't say I like the idea myself; he might as well move to Japan for all the culture shock he'll likely experience. It could really damage his confidence if it didn't work out, dangerous stuff for a "tricky" midfielder.

Also, the raging cynic in me wonders whether the FAI would be willing to pay for a player to be flown to/from Russia for every international game. It must be a real money saver that all our squad plays in England / Scotland.

Spartak would normally pay for flights back for sanctioned UEFA/FIFA games, I think Noboa the Ecuadorian at Rubin and Giorgev the Bulgarian at Terek both have homebound flights paid for by their clubs (and these flights from Kazan and Grozny would probably be more expensive than a Moscow - Dublin flight).

I dont see distance being a problem, 4-5 hours, Carl Robinson had futher to fly from Toronto when playing for Wales, Beckham from LA, Danny from St. Petersburg (to Portugal) to say nothing of the Latin American, Australian or African players in Europe. Sometimes in life you have to push yourself, take risks and overcome daunting challenges - if McGeady has the desire to succeed he will. There are some positives for the Irish team, McGeady should have some useful knowledge about Russian players, admittedly at the moment Saenko is the only Spartak player near the squad, but that could change - anyway he'll be familiar with the Zenit (Zyrianov, Denisov, Kerzhakov, Bukharov etc) and CSKA (Akinfeev, Berezuitski x2, Ignashevich players) - he'll hopefully know their strengths and weaknesses (e.g. Akinfeev's dodgy at long shots, Denisov's temprament, the Berezuitskis tend to get caught upfield attacking corners) whereas I don't know if any FAI dossier would pick up this. Additionally he'll have the advantage of playing in the Luzhniki in a highly charged game (he should play in Spartak v Zenit, which has now been postponed due to smog) before we play the Russians there (assuming it will be played there) in June next year.

[aidinho]

McGeady deal signed sealed and delivered for £9.6M, hope you do Celtic proud ma man.

[DannyInvincible]

Any official confirmation?

Best of luck to him. A move that definitely captures the imagination. Hope it works out for him.

[aidinho]

Any official confirmation?

Best of luck to him. A move that definitely captures the imagination. Hope it works out for him.

yeah was just on the leading Moscow newspapers website and they said this

Представляем MCGEEDI вниманию привилегии для обладателей Карты болельщика:

* скидка 5% в магазинах Red-White Sport (м. «Улица 1905 года» или «Краснопресненская», улица Красная Пресня, 21, м. «Парк Культуры», Комсомольский проспект, 9а);
* возможность приобретения электронного билета;
* приоритетное право на покупку билетов на матчи Лиги чемпионов;
* эксклюзивные предложения от клуба, партнеров и спонсоров клуба;
* розыгрыши призов среди обладателей карты болельщика;
* право на покупку билетов на домашние матчи-дерби (только через Фан-клуб два билета на одну карту);
* возможность (но не гарантия) покупки билетов на гостевые игры (один билет на одну карту) через Фан-клуб: условия приобретения определяются перед каждым матчем;
* право на посещение открытых тренировок, клубных мероприятий;
* другие привилегии и скидки, которые могут появляться по ходу сезона.
Все средства, полученные от продажи карт болельщика, пойдут на нужды Академии «Спартак» по футболу имени Ф.Ф.Черенкова. То есть вы делаете инвестиции в спартаковскую молодежь, инвестиции в будущее клуба!
1. Оформление карты возможно двумя способами:
1.1. Из после на сайте. Для этого необходимо указать, что вы хотите заказать карту. Далее вам необходимо оплатить карту и прислать в течение 10 дней копию документов, удостоверяющих личность (для иногородних), на адрес fancard@spartak.com, по факсу: (495) 737-6484 или принести их в офис Фан-клуба по адресу Зубовский бульвар, д.17, стр.1.
Важно: вступление в Фан-клуб осуществляется только указанными

[SkStu]

yeah was just on the leading Moscow newspapers website and they said this

Представляем MCGEEDI вниманию привилегии для обладателей Карты болельщика:

* скидка 5% в магазинах Red-White Sport (м. «Улица 1905 года» или «Краснопресненская», улица Красная Пресня, 21, м. «Парк Культуры», Комсомольский проспект, 9а);
* возможность приобретения электронного билета;
* приоритетное право на покупку билетов на матчи Лиги чемпионов;
* эксклюзивные предложения от клуба, партнеров и спонсоров клуба;
* розыгрыши призов среди обладателей карты болельщика;
* право на покупку билетов на домашние матчи-дерби (только через Фан-клуб два билета на одну карту);
* возможность (но не гарантия) покупки билетов на гостевые игры (один билет на одну карту) через Фан-клуб: условия приобретения определяются перед каждым матчем;
* право на посещение открытых тренировок, клубных мероприятий;
* другие привилегии и скидки, которые могут появляться по ходу сезона.
Все средства, полученные от продажи карт болельщика, пойдут на нужды Академии «Спартак» по футболу имени Ф.Ф.Черенкова. То есть вы делаете инвестиции в спартаковскую молодежь, инвестиции в будущее клуба!
1. Оформление карты возможно двумя способами:
1.1. Из после на сайте. Для этого необходимо указать, что вы хотите заказать карту. Далее вам необходимо оплатить карту и прислать в течение 10 дней копию документов, удостоверяющих личность (для иногородних), на адрес fancard@spartak.com, по факсу: (495) 737-6484 или принести их в офис Фан-клуба по адресу Зубовский бульвар, д.17, стр.1.
Важно: вступление в Фан-клуб осуществляется только указанными

thats a lot easier to understand than the stuff you write... ;)

[aidinho]

thats a lot easier to understand than the stuff you write... ;)

it is isn't it, but I promised in an earlier thread I would only type in the Queens English from now on. so no more Glaswegian banter from me mate.

[mypost]

Spartak would normally pay for flights back for sanctioned UEFA/FIFA games, I think Noboa the Ecuadorian at Rubin and Giorgev the Bulgarian at Terek both have homebound flights paid for by their clubs (and these flights from Kazan and Grozny would probably be more expensive than a Moscow - Dublin flight).

I dont see distance being a problem, 4-5 hours, Additionally he'll have the advantage of playing in the Luzhniki in a highly charged game before we play the Russians there (assuming it will be played there) in June next year.

There'll be no need to pay for his flights, as he'll never be called up.

Once Irish players venture out of the British leagues, they're out of sight, out of mind. Trap was reluctant to see English league games, so I don't think he'll be heading out to Moscow anytime before the game in September next year. He's even ruled out of the squad for tomorrow. It's not quite Andy Reid treatment, but it'll be just as effective.

[Philly]

There'll be no need to pay for his flights, as he'll never be called up.

Once Irish players venture out of the British leagues, they're out of sight, out of mind. Trap was reluctant to see English league games, so I don't think he'll be heading out to Moscow anytime before the game in September next year. He's even ruled out of the squad for tomorrow. It's not quite Andy Reid treatment, but it'll be just as effective.

I really don't agree here. Trap has not had an opportunuty to choose players outside of England and Scotland because there are no Irish players in foreign leagues that are good enough. As long as McGeady performs for for Spartak and gets game (and probably even if he does not...), I am certain he will be called up for Ireland. I don't understand where your skeptisism is coming from on this topic... he has not been dropped from the squad either, he asked to be released from it so he can travel to Moscow to sign his contract etc...

Also, this whole flight payment malarkey. Moscow ain't a millionmiles away and is pretty easy and relatively cheap to fly to from Moscow, maybe around 600 euro or less. I higly doubt that is going to bother the FAI too much!!

[irishfan86]

McGeady is the only Irish player guaranteed to be playing in the group stages of the Champions League this season. I think he'll easily be on Trap's radar....

[jbyrne]

He's even ruled out of the squad for tomorrow. It's not quite Andy Reid treatment, but it'll be just as effective.

was allowed leave to sort out his future before transfer deadline. not even remotely the same thing as the A Reid situation and you know it

[Razors left peg]

I didnt particularly want him to go there but now that its done I hope it works out for him. Along with Sheridan hopefully they might encourage more young Irish players to look abroad rather than just want to play in Scotland and England

[DannyInvincible]

There'll be no need to pay for his flights, as he'll never be called up.

Once Irish players venture out of the British leagues, they're out of sight, out of mind.

Not sure what you're basing such a cynical belief on. Any specific examples of Irish international-standard players who were ignored or given the cold shoulder simply because they played outside of Britain? Tony Cascarino didn't experience any such treatment whilst playing in France and I'm pretty sure even Phil Babb, of all players, received a call-up whilst at Sporting Lisbon. Those are just two players off the top of my head who make your theory look rather nonsensical.

[Kingdom]

Really? I would say the opposite, .......... Additionally he'll have the advantage of playing in the Luzhniki in a highly charged game (he should play in Spartak v Zenit, which has now been postponed due to smog) before we play the Russians there (assuming it will be played there) in June next year.

Nothing better than reading something like that from a person who knows what he's talking about.

[Closed Account 2]

There'll be no need to pay for his flights, as he'll never be called up.

Once Irish players venture out of the British leagues, they're out of sight, out of mind. Trap was reluctant to see English league games, so I don't think he'll be heading out to Moscow anytime before the game in September next year. He's even ruled out of the squad for tomorrow. It's not quite Andy Reid treatment, but it'll be just as effective.

Cascarino and Aldo spring to mind... when Cascarino was at Marseille and Nancy he was still making the squad (his autobiography details having to get up at 4am to get to Luxembourg Airport and then make countless connecting flights) and I'm pretty sure Aldo was at Sociedad when he was in the 1990 World Cup squad. As others have said there are few Irish playing on the continent (or further abroad) who have the quality to be in contention for the squad. Ronnie O'Brien was sounded out when in the MLS but it didnt come to anything for personal reasons, Joseph Lapira also was given a run out in 2007 while playing university / amateur football in the USA. Connolly was getting selected for us while at Feyenoord / Excelsior Rotterdam.

I agree that the media coverage of McGeady will be minimal in Ireland, but ESPN show Russian league games and as someone else said Spartak will be in CL group stage so their games will be on Sky (also at least 2 of their home games should be seperate 6pm kickoffs, so there will always be the chance for Trap to watch him on tv). You would hope that RTE might make a point of showing at least one Spartak match given McGeady's position in the national squad...

Also you would hope that Trap or Tardelli or even Brady will be going to Russian league games to scout out the Russian national team players given they are in our group.

[Den Perry]

hook. line. sinker. :) ya radge cant.

Dinne be acting the wido wi' aidinho, ya jakey cant...

[geysir]

All credit to McGeady for being the player who managed to earn his club the going transfer rate, a good deal in a stagnant market. If the market was not so dead, he would surely have had a rake of offers. The Spartak coach with that transfer kitty at his disposal and wage contract to offer, could have had a wide choice of decent players from around the world. This transfer is another recognition of the high respect for the player that is McGeady amongst coaches.

[mypost]

Not sure what you're basing such a cynical belief on. Any specific examples of Irish international-standard players who were ignored or given the cold shoulder simply because they played outside of Britain? Tony Cascarino didn't experience any such treatment whilst playing in France and I'm pretty sure even Phil Babb, of all players, received a call-up whilst at Sporting Lisbon. Those are just two players off the top of my head who make your theory look rather nonsensical.

Robbie Keane, David Connolly, Ian Harte, etc, etc.

Once they're not playing in England or Celtic, they're practically ignored by the management, and the general public. So Spartak will play 6 games this year in the CL, isn't that wonderful? Robbie Keane will have 6 games on tv in a lot less time.

Look at Keith Fahy tonight. Look at Kevin Doyle in recent years. More than capable players who were deliberately shunned until they crossed the water. McGeady may as well retire from international football, if he goes to Moscow. The exclusion of him tonight, is the start of what his life in the Ireland setup is about to become.


Also you would hope that Trap or Tardelli or even Brady will be going to Russian league games to scout out the Russian national team players given they are in our group.

Why would Brady be going, when he's not part of the set up anymore? There's more chance of Trap or Tardelli taking up a season ticket in Tallaght, than of them flying out to Novosibirsk, Volgograd, or Grozny, to watch Russians play. DVD's only.

[Charlie Darwin]

Harte had been dropped from the Irish team long before he went to Spain and briefly won his place back while in Spain. David Connolly scored almost all of his Ireland goals while starring in the Dutch second division. Robbie Keane played in every Irish international while he was at Inter.

Fahey and Doyle both improved immensely when they went to England and despite the improvement Fahey is still only a fringe player.

If you're going to make things up, at least try to make them things that aren't so easily disproven.

[rebelmusic]

Agree with Charlie, you're talking out your arse. Do a tiny bit of research and you'll see that Trap pubicly excused McGeady from the match to sort out his move to Russia

[DannyInvincible]

Robbie Keane, David Connolly, Ian Harte, etc, etc.

You've shot yourself in the foot there. Each one of those intended examples actually disproves your theory, as aptly demonstrated by 'Charlie Darwin'. Who are the lists of others you must be referring to when you write "etc, etc."?


Once they're not playing in England or Celtic, they're practically ignored by the management, and the general public.

How on earth would you know who the management is watching or not? Plenty of examples have been given to demonstrate that what you're claiming is complete nonsense. There really isn't any evidence to suggest to the contrary that if a player is considered up to international standard, he'll play for Ireland, regardless of whatever country he plays in. A belief in anything else is unduly cynical, if not an outright conspiracy theory.

And I dunno why you're bringing the general Irish public into this... What does the public have to do with it? When did the general Irish public ever remotely bother to follow something en masse that isn't fed to them direct through their television sets? I think you're trying to justify your own ignorance of these players with that odd and irrelevant inclusion. One thing you can be sure of is that the management aren't choosing squads based on the limited knowledge and insight of the general public.


Look at Keith Fahy tonight. Look at Kevin Doyle in recent years. More than capable players who were deliberately shunned until they crossed the water.

Fahey is still only a squad player, as 'Charlie' highlights, and even when he first made his move back across the pond, as they say, it's not as if he went straight into the international side. Same for Doyle; it was a few months after joining Reading until he made his senior debut. I'm an advocate for a strong game in Ireland and as much as I like to see current and former League of Ireland players do well for themselves, to suggest that the league here is of a standard that will adequately prepare a player for regularly playing sides at the pinnacle of international football is just deluded. Fahey and Doyle weren't shunned whilst at St. Pat's and Cork; they simply weren't considered to have proven that they were yet good enough. Once they proved they were able to make a competitive step up, they received recognition for this. It's not coincidental that a player shows himself as a precious talent and is signed up by a club with greater clout around the same time when the FAI begins to take greater notice of him. Besides, hasn't Trap stated that he views Conor Powell of Bohs to be a potential option at left-full? Playing in the league didn't stop previous managers calling up Jason Byrne and Glen Crowe either.

And, furthermore, Kevin Doyle moved to Reading from Cork at the age of 21, if I'm not mistaken. He'd been in our under-21 team whilst at Cork and made eleven appearances for the side. Hardly amounts to shunning...


McGeady may as well retire from international football, if he goes to Moscow. The exclusion of him tonight, is the start of what his life in the Ireland setup is about to become.

McGeady was given leave, presumably at his own behest or consultation with Trap and the FAI. He is in Moscow undergoing a medical and signing a contract, after all, isn't he? Nothing at all has been said to indicate we'll never see nor hear of him again.

Edit: He's actually in Frankfurt for the medical, not that that makes any difference.

[DannyInvincible]

On this whole myth that a player will get straight into the international set-up once he moves to Britain from the League of Ireland, it's not as if Seamus Coleman, for example, has gone straight into the international team since his move from Sligo to Everton and subsequent loan performances for Blackpool last season. This all in spite of the many calls on here and amongst Ireland's support generally, I'd imagine, for his inclusion. He will be included in time if he continues to improve and demonstrate he's up to it. He always has been on the radar of our under-age staff anyway.

There's quite evidently no policy of shunning players just because they're not playing in either England or with Celtic. How utterly preposterous a notion. This country does have a depressing - one might even argue shameful - reliance on the British game - that cannot be denied - and your overt cynicism is a subtle expression of grievance and clearly an attempt to attack what you see as our football association ignoring the league you love, but in this instance, as incompetent as the FAI is in running the League of Ireland, you're attacking something that just doesn't exist. Really.

[mypost]

Harte had been dropped from the Irish team long before he went to Spain and briefly won his place back while in Spain.
Fahey and Doyle both improved immensely when they went to England and despite the improvement Fahey is still only a fringe player.

While in Spain, Ian Harte wasn't considered until we had run out of full backs through injury. Which backs up my point.

The fact Fahy and Doyle are/were fringe players when they arrived is irrelevant to this discussion. The point is, they were shunned until they arrived in England. Doyle got his first squad call-up within weeks of his move from Cork, Fahy not much later after moving from Pats.

Frank Stapleton was also given the cold shoulder by JC while he was at Ajax. He made few appearances for Ireland afterwards.


McGeady was given leave, presumably at his own behest or consultation with Trap and the FAI. He is in Moscow undergoing a medical and signing a contract, after all, isn't he? Nothing at all has been said to indicate we'll never see nor hear of him again.

I know the official reasons why he left. The point I'm making is, it's imo the start of things to come for him, regarding his Ireland career. He will get games, but not as often as he was. I think he recognises that, and is one of the reasons why the transfer is taking so long.

Basically the unwritten rule is, if you're not in the UK, you're on your own.

[DannyInvincible]

Frank Stapleton was also given the cold shoulder by JC while he was at Ajax. He made few appearances for Ireland afterwards.

Stapleton went to Ajax in 1987 at the age of 31, so it's only inevitable that he would have seen fewer games at this age; he was on the way out anyway with younger players like Aldridge, Cascarino and Quinn making their mark on the scene. I'd imagine that would have more to do with him getting less playing time rather than the fact he decided to move outside of the UK to play his football. I'm not sure of the ins and out of it, but I'm aware Stapleton didn't always see eye-to-eye with Charlton either, although I doubt this was over any decision to play his football outside of the UK. If I'm mistaken, feel free to correct me. He still captained Ireland in all three of our Euro '88 games, mind you, so I'm not sure where that leaves your point ultimately.


I know the official reasons why he left. The point I'm making is, it's imo the start of things to come for him, regarding his Ireland career. He will get games, but not as often as he was. I think he recognises that, and is one of the reasons why the transfer is taking so long.

I'd argue that there are plenty of other more obvious reasons as to why the transfer process is taking so long - namely, the length of travel-time between Glasgow and Moscow, McGeady's possible holding out for interest from Aston Villa before O'Neill's resignation, the player having to make sure he's making the right lifestyle choice to live in what many might think of as an alien environment (people generally don't make such decisions overnight) and his having to fly to Frankfurt for a medical - but I suppose we'll have to wait and see on this one. I'll get back to you in a few months. ;)

[Supreme feet]

Aside from dropping Stapleton (which had nothing to do with him joining Ajax, but rather for personal reasons, as Charlton outlined in his autobiogbraphy), Jack Charlton also picked Mick McCarthy (Lyon), Kevin Moran (Sporting Gijon) and John Aldridge (Real Sociedad) consistently while they were on the continent. Connolly was an ever-present in the squad while with Feyenoord/Exelsior, as was Cascarino at Marseille/Nancy. Harte was first dropped by Brian Kerr when he was still at Leeds, and going to Levante didn't change his situation. His inconsistent form for Ireland, when selected, didn't help his cause.

As for the LOI debate, Doyle did not get his first cap until March 2006, nine months after joining Reading - by which time he was into double figures for the season, and one of the top scorers in the Championship. Fahey wasn't called up until last summer, after a tidy (if unspectacular) year and a half with Birmingham.

[Charlie Darwin]

While in Spain, Ian Harte wasn't considered until we had run out of full backs through injury. Which backs up my point.
Because he wasn't good enough.


The fact Fahy and Doyle are/were fringe players when they arrived is irrelevant to this discussion. The point is, they were shunned until they arrived in England.
Because they weren't good enough.


Doyle got his first squad call-up within weeks of his move from Cork, Fahy not much later after moving from Pats.
Neither of these points is remotely true.

[mypost]

Neither of these points is remotely true.

Doyle got his first squad call up in October 2005, 4 months after leaving Cork City. He was perfectly capable of being called up before then, but because he wasn't playing in England, never was.

Whether Ian Harte was or wasn't good enough is a moot point, but it's not mine. The facts are he wasn't considered for selection for 12 months after moving to Spain, partly because he was playing in Spain. That is my point.

Stapleton moved to Ajax in 1987. Later, he went on to play for Anderlecht and Le Havre. Two years later, he was part of the retirement shootout with Brady and Galvin in the Germany game. Having survived it, he retired the following year.

LOI players are automatically excluded from selection these days, not because of ability, but because of location. Unlike most international teams, none of today's squad* play their trade anywhere else bar England or Scotland. They know what the benefits and consequences for their international career are, of that. It's not a coincidence.

*McGeady excepted.

[DannyInvincible]

He was perfectly capable of being called up before then, but because he wasn't playing in England, never was.

Nonsense. Glen Crowe made an appearance for Ireland as late as 2003 despite playing in the League of Ireland, whilst Jason Byrne was called up as late as 2006; the appearances of both these players in an Ireland shirt either side of Doyle's first call-up indicates that there was no policy whatsoever of shunning League of Ireland players in effect when it came to deciding whether or not to bring Doyle, an under-21 international anyway whilst at Cork, into the senior set-up. Doyle moved to Reading at the age of 21 so naturally you'd expect him to progress to the senior team at that point if considered able enough.

Why do you so steadfastly believe that there is some policy at play behind the scenes? What would the motive or rationale behind it be and how would it benefit the FAI to shun Irish-based players who, on the off-chance, could otherwise offer something more to the international team than what would be on offer from other players playing elsewhere at a higher level?

I'm not sure you're making a point about Stapleton there at all. You haven't really dealt with anything I said and it just reads like a short bio of his footballing career post-Ajax; the decline of which can be more accurately put down to his ageing, no longer being good enough, being replaced by younger attackers in the Ireland team and, at a stretch, maybe a personal spat with Jack Charlton.

[DannyInvincible]

Whether Ian Harte was or wasn't good enough is a moot point

It's not a moot point. To the contrary, it is the point. It's simply the most obvious reason as to why he wasn't called up to the team. He had a poor World Cup in 2002 and never really recovered his form thereafter. He was first dropped whilst still playing at Leeds, as has already been pointed out.

[Supreme feet]

Joe Gamble also won a couple of caps, as recently as 2007, while playing for Cork City.

[mypost]

Nonsense. Glen Crowe made an appearance for Ireland as late as 2003 despite playing in the League of Ireland, whilst Jason Byrne was called up as late as 2006; the appearances of both these players in an Ireland shirt either side of Doyle's first call-up indicates that there was no policy whatsoever of shunning League of Ireland players in effect when it came to deciding whether or not to bring Doyle, an under-21 international anyway whilst at Cork, into the senior set-up. Doyle moved to Reading at the age of 21 so naturally you'd expect him to progress to the senior team at that point if considered able enough.

Why do you so steadfastly believe that there is some policy at play behind the scenes? What would the motive or rationale behind it be and how would it benefit the FAI to shun Irish-based players who, on the off-chance, could otherwise offer something more to the international team than what would be on offer from other players playing elsewhere at a higher level?


Joe Gamble also won a couple of caps, as recently as 2007, while playing for Cork City.

I'm sure we're going to get fleeting exceptions in posts throughout the day, but in all the above cases, they amounted to no more than token appearances, some of them injury time substitutions. It's not proof that LOI players are allowed to freely play for the senior team.

Will McGeady play again for Ireland? Probably. Will he play regularly? Probably not. Will the management team fly out to Russia to watch him? Absolutely not.

JC decided 24 years ago, that LOI players weren't good enough to play for Ireland. His successors carried, and continue to carry out that policy. Moving away from Britain has mainly hindered rather than helped that cause. We all know there are a minimum of exceptions, and post-Charlton's appointment, that minimum is very very very small. The policy is what it is, if you don't want to believe it, fair enough.

[DannyInvincible]

I'm sure we're going to get fleeting exceptions in posts throughout the day, but in all the above cases, they amounted to no more than token appearances, some of them injury time substitutions. It's not proof that LOI players are allowed to freely play for the senior team.

Err, yes, it is. Self-evidently so. What other proof could one offer as evidence that League of Ireland players are allowed to freely play for the senior team other than providing perfectly valid examples of League of Ireland players actually freely playing for the senior team?

You might call them "fleeting exceptions". It probably appears that way because those who are anywhere near international standard and still plying their trade in the League of Ireland are extremely few and far between. That's just a reality, whether we like it or not. See, you've erected your argument so that you can't really lose either way, but in doing so you're contradicting yourself somewhat. First, you say that Doyle was deserving of a call-up whilst playing with Cork. If he's ignored, you say it's indicative of some behind-the-scenes official policy against calling up Irish-based players. If your wishes were met and he had have been called up, you would have considered it a fleeting exception or a token gesture anyway. A general shun policy with token selections here and there could exist in theory, but, in the absence of any evidence of such, there are much better explanations available for the lack of League of Ireland players in our international side. Seeing as the FAI were supposedly so willing to make these token gestures every once in a while, why not have given Doyle a go instead of Jason Byrne or someone?


The policy is what it is, if you don't want to believe it, fair enough.

Is what it is? As in a conspiracy theory you have concocted with rather scant supporting evidence beyond a stubborn sense of grievance?

[tetsujin1979]

Doyle got his first squad call up in October 2005, 4 months after leaving Cork City. He was perfectly capable of being called up before then, but because he wasn't playing in England, never was. He was playing in the U21s regularly before the move.


Whether Ian Harte was or wasn't good enough is a moot point, but it's not mine. The facts are he wasn't considered for selection for 12 months after moving to Spain, partly because he was playing in Spain. That is my point. So the fact that he wasn't good enough is irrelevant? John O'Shea was playing regularly for Man United at the top of the Premiership, and in the Champions Leauge. Levante finished 18th and were relegated from the Primera Liga the same season. But you still think he should have been included?

Trapattoni has praised McGeady since he first took over, and constantly picked him for squads. I don't see that changing in the future.

[Closed Account 2]

Why would Brady be going, when he's not part of the set up anymore? There's more chance of Trap or Tardelli taking up a season ticket in Tallaght, than of them flying out to Novosibirsk, Volgograd, or Grozny, to watch Russians play. DVD's only.

Why would they go to Novosibirsk no active Sibir player has ever played for the Russian national team, the likes of Chizhov and Laktionov got thier only caps (1 and 2) while playing at other clubs, this is Sibir's first season in the Russian Premier league, they are very much small fry in terms of Russian football. It's similar with Terek in terms of national team players, they have had no Russian NT players for years, they do have a few Bulgarians, Ukrainians and Georgian internationals playing with them though - their best Russian player, Lakhiyalov the Dagestani, hasnt been in the reckoning for the Russian National team as he faces inordinate competition in central midfield the more gifted of the Yatchenko twins might get into the squad if he gets lucky but I can't see him starting any competitive games for years.

Rotor Volgograd had a bit of international pedigree 10 years ago when the likes of a young Aldonin were playing there, but they've been struggling of late playing southern regional leagues and being on the verge of being declared bankrupt. There is no prospect of anyone from the FAI (or the Slovak federation) going to these cities. Why would they anyway, given 5 of the teams in the Premier League (Spartak, Lokomotiv, CSKA, Dinamo and Saturn) come from the greater Moscow area, and Moscow teams together with Zenit and Rubin provide almost all of the domestic players in the Russian squad ?

Brady may yet be able to combine his roles with Arsenal and Ireland, especially in the context of scouting players / opposition. Arsenal have as much chance of drawing a Russian team in their group as a French or German team (Rubin and Spartak are already in the group stage and Zenit have to beat Auxerre) if Brady goes then one would hope he might pass on information to the FAI about key players etc.

Looking at your other posts in this thread it seems as though your arguement is not about continential (or further abroad) players not getting a fair chance of being selected for Ireland - as you have ignored the examples of Cascarino, Aldridge, Connolly etc getting regularly selected while playing on the continent and even the examples of the likes of Lapira who have been given a chance despite hardly playing professional football. Your primary gripe seems to be the fact that few Airtricity League players have been selected in the last decade or so, which is a seperate arguement.

[livehead1]

MYPOST would it be folly to assume you are a huge fan of the League of Ireland perchance?

[EAFC_rdfl]

Why would they go to Novosibirsk no active Sibir player has ever played for the Russian national team, the likes of Chizhov and Laktionov got thier only caps (1 and 2) while playing at other clubs, this is Sibir's first season in the Russian Premier league, they are very much small fry in terms of Russian football. It's similar with Terek in terms of national team players, they have had no Russian NT players for years, they do have a few Bulgarians, Ukrainians and Georgian internationals playing with them though - their best Russian player, Lakhiyalov the Dagestani, hasnt been in the reckoning for the Russian National team as he faces inordinate competition in central midfield the more gifted of the Yatchenko twins might get into the squad if he gets lucky but I can't see him starting any competitive games for years.

Rotor Volgograd had a bit of international pedigree 10 years ago when the likes of a young Aldonin were playing there, but they've been struggling of late playing southern regional leagues and being on the verge of being declared bankrupt. There is no prospect of anyone from the FAI (or the Slovak federation) going to these cities. Why would they anyway, given 5 of the teams in the Premier League (Spartak, Lokomotiv, CSKA, Dinamo and Saturn) come from the greater Moscow area, and Moscow teams together with Zenit and Rubin provide almost all of the domestic players in the Russian squad ?

Brady may yet be able to combine his roles with Arsenal and Ireland, especially in the context of scouting players / opposition. Arsenal have as much chance of drawing a Russian team in their group as a French or German team (Rubin and Spartak are already in the group stage and Zenit have to beat Auxerre) if Brady goes then one would hope he might pass on information to the FAI about key players etc.

Looking at your other posts in this thread it seems as though your arguement is not about continential (or further abroad) players not getting a fair chance of being selected for Ireland - as you have ignored the examples of Cascarino, Aldridge, Connolly etc getting regularly selected while playing on the continent and even the examples of the likes of Lapira who have been given a chance despite hardly playing professional football. Your primary gripe seems to be the fact that few Airtricity League players have been selected in the last decade or so, which is a seperate arguement.
which has absolutely no relevance in this thread

[passinginterest]

I think a lot of people have failed to grasp one of the key fundamentals of the Internet; there is no point in trying to argue with MyPost, he lives in his own little world and never agrees with anyone about anything.

[Lionel Ritchie]

I think a lot of people have failed to grasp one of the key fundamentals of the Internet; there is no point in trying to argue with MyPost, he lives in his own little world and never agrees with anyone about anything.

This is nuthin' ...You should pop over to the Eurovision Uberthread and try explaining to him that directing the sum of the national effort toward winning Eurovision might just be a misallocation of already scarce resources. ;-D

[The Fly]

http://en.rian.ru/sports/20100812/160169421.html

[The Fly]

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11781_6308005,00.html


http://www.sportinglife.com/football/scottishpremier/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=soccer/10/08/11/SOCCER_Celtic_Nightlead.html

[mypost]

Why would they go to Novosibirsk.....

Brady may yet be able to combine his roles with Arsenal and Ireland, especially in the context of scouting players / opposition.

Spartak play games against those teams in their own league. Brady has left the Ireland setup to go back to work for Arsenal.


He was playing in the U21s regularly before the move.

So the fact that he wasn't good enough is irrelevant?

I'm a) not arguing about the U-age sides, and b) not arguing who is good/not good enough to play. My argument is all to do with "location, location, location". I've been watching us play for 25 years, and the overwhelming majority of Irish players since then, played while at British clubs. So it's clear that you have to play there, in order to play regularly for Ireland.


I think a lot of people have failed to grasp one of the key fundamentals of the Internet; there is no point in trying to argue with MyPost, he lives in his own little world and never agrees with anyone about anything.


This is nuthin' ...You should pop over to the Eurovision Uberthread and try explaining to him.... ;-D

As you can see, a disagreement with mypost can't possibly be complete without the old reliables chipping in with the likes of the above.

[Closed Account]

I'm a) not arguing about the U-age sides, and b) not arguing who is good/not good enough to play. My argument is all to do with "location, location, location". I've been watching us play for 25 years, and the overwhelming majority of Irish players since then, played while at British clubs. So it's clear that you have to play there, in order to play regularly for Ireland.
And yet you've been giving countless evidence of people playing in France, Italy, Spain, Belgium, Holland, USA, Portugal and yes even Ireland who have been capped by Ireland. Whilst of the 213 players playing in England/Scotland at the moment (tets stats), only 60ish have been capped and thats being generous.
Here are the facts:
90% of players who play outside of Ireland, England and Scotland have been capped by Ireland whilst there
25% of players who play in England/Scotland get capped. (Being very generous)
Less than 1% of players who play in Ireland get capped.

So it seems players are far more likely to get capped playing on the continent according to those stats!
But no matter what spin anyone puts on this they won't convince you that Airtricity league players are being shafted.

You've hit the nail on the head with 'Location, Location, Location' but your looking at it wrong. International Managers like to watch their prospective selections play against other international players as a yardstick. And unfortunately, there are little or no International players playing in the Airtricity League, its the wrong location.

[DannyInvincible]

I'm a) not arguing about the U-age sides, and b) not arguing who is good/not good enough to play. My argument is all to do with "location, location, location". I've been watching us play for 25 years, and the overwhelming majority of Irish players since then, played while at British clubs. So it's clear that you have to play there, in order to play regularly for Ireland.

a) Is there a good reason to ignore them, other than them proving an inconvenience to the bizarre point you're trying to peddle? Why would the under-21 players based in Ireland be exempt from a "shun policy" if such did exist? If you're the FAI, why not just apply it to them as well?

b) The overwhelming majority of Irish players appearing for us internationally in the past 25 years have played for us whilst at British clubs because, sure enough, the overwhelming majority of international-standard Irish players in the past 25 years just so happen to have played, and continue to play, for British clubs. And their playing for British clubs is down to the fact that these individuals have the ability to attract the attention of these clubs, play at a higher standard and naturally earn a better living. Their departure from these shores would have had little to do with trying to break free from some imaginary policy of shunning them because of their location. You still haven't given any viable or valid rationale for the FAI utilising such a policy other than Jack Charlton having decided 24 years ago that Irish-based players weren't good enough and every manager since wishing to carry that decision of his on as some sort of weird tradition or something...

[DannyInvincible]

And yet you've been giving countless evidence of people playing in France, Italy, Spain, Belgium, Holland, USA, Portugal and yes even Ireland who have been capped by Ireland. Whilst of the 213 players playing in England/Scotland at the moment (tets stats), only 60ish have been capped and thats being generous.
Here are the facts:
90% of players who play outside of Ireland, England and Scotland have been capped by Ireland whilst there
25% of players who play in England/Scotland get capped. (Being very generous)
Less than 1% of players who play in Ireland get capped.

Good post. Just a few minor things:


So it seems players are far more likely to get capped playing on the continent according to those stats!
But no matter what spin anyone puts on this they won't convince you that Airtricity league players are being shafted.

"Are" or "aren't", you mean? I assume you meant "aren't" as 'mypost' seems to beleive they are being shafted by some official shun policy anyway.


You've hit the nail on the head with 'Location, Location, Location' but your looking at it wrong. International Managers like to watch their prospective selections play against other international players as a yardstick. And unfortunately, there are little or no International players playing in the Airtricity League, its the wrong location.

I gather you're using "location" in the rhetorical and metaphoric sense. League of Ireland players who stand out in the league are given a chance when it's warranted, as is fair and to be expected - to put it down to tokenism is particularly cynical - but ultimately, as I think you're agreeing, it comes down to judging a player by the standard at which he is playing being a factor in deciding whether or not a player is good enough to play for Ireland or not. That's not indicative of an active shun policy; it just shows that the general standard - save for the odd exception - isn't considered high enough to warrant regular senior and consistent call-ups from across the board. And, to be fair, it isn't. Would anyone really argue otherwise? Other than 'mypost', of course...

[mypost]

a) Is there a good reason to ignore them, other than them proving an inconvenience to the bizarre point you're trying to peddle? Why would the under-21 players based in Ireland be exempt from a "shun policy" if such did exist?

That's not indicative of an active shun policy; it just shows that the general standard - save for the odd exception - isn't considered high enough to warrant regular senior and consistent call-ups from across the board. And, to be fair, it isn't.

I'm talking exclusively about the players playing for the senior team.

The standard of a league doesn't matter. Players playing for countries, play in leagues all over the planet. If the player is good enough to play for his country, then he's good enough.

[DannyInvincible]

I'm talking exclusively about the players playing for the senior team.

I'm fully aware of that, as I acknowledged. I was asking why you wish to talk exclusively about them considering there's no valid reason to ignore the under-age players who are Irish-based and are chosen without a gripe or reluctance to line out for our junior sides, other than it being inconvenient to your argument.

[Closed Account]

"Are" or "aren't", you mean? I assume you meant "aren't" as 'mypost' seems to beleive they are being shafted by some official shun policy anyway.
I meant 'are'. Remember mypost started this by saying that McGeady wouldn't get called up because he is playing in Russia. mypost included every country outside of Britain in his shun policy. So I was highlighting that a higher proportion of people playing outside of Britain and Ireland get capped than those playing in Britain (selective I know but so is mypost).


I gather you're using "location" in the rhetorical and metaphoric sense. League of Ireland players who stand out in the league are given a chance when it's warranted, as is fair and to be expected - to put it down to tokenism is particularly cynical - but ultimately, as I think you're agreeing, it comes down to judging a player by the standard at which he is playing being a factor in deciding whether or not a player is good enough to play for Ireland or not. That's not indicative of an active shun policy; it just shows that the general standard - save for the odd exception - isn't considered high enough to warrant regular senior and consistent call-ups from across the board. And, to be fair, it isn't. Would anyone really argue otherwise? Other than 'mypost', of course...
Exactly. When Doyle and Fahey were looking promising in Ireland, Trapattoni/Kerr didn't have the luxury to call him into the Ireland squad for a trial like club managers do. There is a natural progression to international recognition and it generally follows the same path save for exceptional talents. Work your way up, through youth systems/lower leagues etc until your playing at your level. Just because Doyle and Fahey are good enough now doesn't mean they always were, and if you believe that mypost, then your incredibly naive.

[DannyInvincible]

The standard of a league doesn't matter. Players playing for countries, play in leagues all over the planet.

Certainly, but those playing for better countries tend to play in better leagues because these better leagues, naturally enough, tend to attract better players, or at least potentially better players. It's all pretty straightforward. The level at which you play can be a fairly good indication of your own abilities more often than not, I would think.


If the player is good enough to play for his country, then he's good enough.

Indeed. Which explains why certain League of Ireland players who've stood out as exceptional talents in the league have been given the chance to shine now and again over the years. Only thing was they generally failed to make a considerable enough impact to confirm their status as permanent, international-standard players.