Ireland squad vs Holland

[Fergie's Son]

No investment at home = sh1t international team eventually. 1966 was that last 4-0. vs Germany!!!

FFS we're a small country with limited resources. We've only recently become a first world country so it's not like we've had the time or the finances to fund a good Irish league.

Now it would be a great idea but let's not get carried away with ourselves. Even a strong Irish league wouldn't help as the quality of football played in Ireland and England is so low.

Did you see how the Dutch just kept possession? Even England, with 60 million people and a massive league can't do that.

[Réiteoir]

ALL HAIL STEVE STAUNTON AND THE NEW DAWN OF INTERNATIONAL FOOTBALL

my arse

[dancinpants]

FFS we're a small country with limited resources. We've only recently become a first world country so it's not like we've had the time or the finances to fund a good Irish league.

Bull sh!t excuse


Now it would be a great idea but let's not get carried away with ourselves. Even a strong Irish league wouldn't help as the quality of football played in Ireland and England is so low.

A team playing with some PRIDE would go along way to start with!!!


Did you see how the Dutch just kept possession? Even England, with 60 million people and a massive league can't do that.

This isn't the best ever Dutch side, they are a talented side no doubt, but that doesn't excuse losing 4-0 (so far)

[cavan_fan]

As a friendly this was of some use. Things we've learned:

Pluses
Aiden McGeady is getting there, should start v Germany
Alan O'Brien is fast, strong (and selfish!), one for 2010 qualifying
Finnan looks the cool head we need, should play RB

Minuses (and if these are learned then its a useful match)
We are the opposite of old Irish teams, we're good going forward (esp with Duff and Keane added), and poor at the back. I think this stems from not having a good defensive midfielder. I still think if Steven Reid was told to sit back it would help. Also would help to have Dunne back, would consider begging Cunningham to come back, we need a bit of experience.

John O'Shea should have been our star player today, but looked awful. He needs to be dropped and made to fight for his place (if he cares).

Paddy Kenny, hard to criticise since there were some chances but Shay would prob have kept it to 2/3

Finally Stan, I keep hoping there is more to him than meets the eye but he looked lost today. I don't want to do him down but is it too late for the FAI to consider appointing an experienced EPL type manager (e.g. Alan Curbishley) on a part time basis for 2 years to run the team? Stan could be his No.2 and take on the day to day activities with a view to taking over in 2008.

[Fergie's Son]

Bull sh!t excuse


I'm sorry. I didn't mean to get all rational and cogent with you. Reason is well overrated, eh?

The team did play with pride but they just aren't good enough.

You think Elliot doesn't have pride in the shirt? Or Doyle?

Kilbane is not good enough for the team. Carr should have stayed retired and Reid was mostly annonymous.

Fact is, players were not good enough.

I will offer one glimmer of hope, however, in that the Germans play a similar rush style to ourselves and can't pass the ball the way the Dutch did.

[steno]

Stan better get things in order and quick or this could be a painful Qualifer group for us.
Most lifeless lacklusture performance from an irish team in a long time shows as well the lack of strength and dept in the squad at the mo

[shakermaker1982]

The first half was one of the worst performances I have ever seen from a side. The 2nd half was only marginally better -Doyle and O'Brien added a bit of impetus and pace. The only other positive was MacGeady - he has to start on the right wing. 3 games in and I think we are starting to go backwards, I don't wanna criticise Staunton so soon but he's jumped into the deep end here and if he cannot swim in this environment we are gonna all sink - no qualifications on the horizons if we keep plaing like that. What formation were we trying to play in the 1st half? 4-3-3?!

[ger121]

Was ****ed off i had to work late so i had to give away my 2 tickets for free to some lad in work. God am I glad I couldn't go to see that drubbing.

[dancinpants]

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to get all rational and cogent with you. Reason is well overrated, eh?

What was rational about it? There no investment in the local game in Ireland because the government and populace in general choose to IGNORE it - not because we've only "recently" become a "first world country" - and I have to say your concept of "recent" is very strange.

[The Legend]

Back to the early 70s we go.... ah well, we had our golden period!

[thejollyrodger]

tonight was a disgrace

[Fergie's Son]

What was rational about it? There no investment in the local game in Ireland because the government and populace in general choose to IGNORE it - not because we've only "recently" become a "first world country" - and I have to say your concept of "recent" is very strange.

Ten years is recent.

So we've not had much investment for 40 odd years yet we rarely get hammered this badly. Statistically, your argument is without merit.

Moreover, if the populace in general ignore a domestic league then that is their perogative.

[dancinpants]

Ten years is recent.

If yer 90!!!


So we've not had much investment for 40 odd years yet we rarely get hammered this badly. Statistically, your argument is without merit.

It was you who argued the following as an excuse:


FFS we're a small country with limited resources. We've only recently become a first world country so it's not like we've had the time or the finances to fund a good Irish league.

Make yer mind up



Moreover, if the populace in general ignore a domestic league then that is their perogative.

Where did I say it WASN'T their perogative?

[Gareth]

"FFS we're a small country with limited resources. We've only recently become a first world country so it's not like we've had the time or the finances to fund a good Irish league."

We have had plenty of time to do plenty of things. Its just that we export our fanbase, just like our young players.

[Fergie's Son]

10 years is a very short period of time a particularly when pre-'96 we had a significantly smaller economy than we do now.

We never have had a particularly well-funded league yet we have rarely been beaten so badly. To wit, your argument that we would not lose this badly with a well-funded league is without merit given the statiscally small number of times we have lost this badly.

The real problem is the culture of football on these islands. Holland kept possession. We gave it away. Holland waited for an opening. We hoofed the ball as soon as possible.

No amount of money will help unless we change our basic style of football. I have seen nothing in England or in Ireland to suggest that such a change is coming anytime soon.

Only Mcgeady and Doyle show any sort of real promise.

[Gareth]

10 years is a very short period of time a particularly when pre-'96 we had a significantly smaller economy than we do now.

We never have had a particularly well-funded league yet we have rarely been beaten so badly. To wit, your argument that we would not lose this badly with a well-funded league is without merit given the statiscally small number of times we have lost this badly.

The real problem is the culture of football on these islands. Holland kept possession. We gave it away. Holland waited for an opening. We hoofed the ball as soon as possible.

No amount of money will help unless we change our basic style of football. I have seen nothing in England or in Ireland to suggest that such a change is coming anytime soon.

Only Mcgeady and Doyle show any sort of real promise.

No investment at home = sh1t international team eventually

The culture as you clearly pointed out has changed and now you need that ground work to support and feed an International team. England have failed to grow English players to the top level in the same quantity as years ago and they are suffering. If we had a strong league here, I do think it would benefit our international team.

[Fergie's Son]

No investment at home = sh1t international team eventually
.

That's an utterly meaningless comment. Put another way, it's so open-ended that it has no value.

Scotland have a significant league yet they have been poor for nearly 15 years now.

Ireland are poor for many reasons and lack of a domestic league is one of them but only one of them.

Overall though, I agree with you. A good, strong LOI would be better in the long run (but only if the culture of football changes i.e. we move away from the English model of kick & run).

[Soper]

Yeah, Irish clubs need to change, espcially after Derry getting thrashed 5-1 by Gretna after hoofing the ball all game.

[Fergie's Son]

Yeah, Irish clubs need to change, espcially after Derry getting thrashed 5-1 by Gretna after hoofing the ball all game.

Right because Gretna are top class continental opposition....right?

[dancinpants]

Right because Gretna are top class continental opposition....right?

Well before that match? According to the media and bar stoolers? YES

What about Gothenburg then?
What about Djurgadens?
Malmo?
Hadjuk Split?
Njemingens? (however its spelt)
Appollon Limmasol?
Oh and I s'pose we could say...

...Aberdeen (of said significant league)
Kaiserslautern maybe?

Fergie wrote:

Scotland have a significant league yet they have been poor for nearly 15 years now.

Yet you are quick to dismiss a team that are almost as certain as you can get to be promoted to the SPL, and who will also possibly hold down (admittedly at best) a mid-table spot in said SPL.

:rolleyes:

[Fergie's Son]

And mid-table in the SPL is meaningful in what way?

Until we see EL teams beating the likes of even a Blackburn or a Hamburg let's drop this nonsensical notion that the EL is on a par with any decent European league.

Indeed, I would take a Rosenberg in 10 games over any EL team.

As I have pointed out numerous times, using an objective criteria (i.e. $$) the EL just does not rate.

[ifk101]

Until we see EL teams beating the likes of even a Blackburn or a Hamburg let's drop this nonsensical notion that the EL is on a par with any decent European league.

If our national team could beat Blackburn or Hamburg I'd be happy.

And why do you have this big chip on your shoulder about the LOI? What's the big fear with trying out LOI players in a friendly?

Personally I don't think there're any players in the LOI at the moment that could be first-choice for the national team but there are players in the league that can add depth to the squad and shouldn't be ignore just because the play their football in Ireland.

[Soper]

As I have pointed out numerous times, using an objective criteria (i.e. $$) the EL just does not rate.
And as I am pointing out now, you are just wrong.

Anyway, enough about this now.

[youngirish]

People can bang on all they like about the players not being good enough and all that recycled bullsh*t but if you follow football to any degree you should know that player for player we should be better than the likes of Chile, Wales, Slovakia and similar to the Czech Republic (Nedved has retired, Kohler probably will follow).

Our first 11 all play in the Premiership which is apparently one of the top 3 leagues in the world. Many of our players play for top Premeriship clubs (Tottenham, Liverpool, Man U). None of the above teams can make the same claim (including the Czech Republic).

The real problem is the amateurish, inexperienced (particlarly at the top level) managers that the toss*rs in the FAI keep on appointing to save themselves a few quid. Few have ever looked like they actually had a clue what they were doing. It says it all that our most successful manager ever (Charlton) deep down had really only been an average English first division manager but even then was so much better than what came before or after that he was incorrectly thought to be a great manager.

[John83]

Did you see how the Dutch just kept possession? Even England, with 60 million people and a massive league can't do that.
Part of the reason they could do that was the space we gave them last night. We've never played slick football like them, and I don't think you have to to be reasonably successful at international level.


We never have had a particularly well-funded league yet we have rarely been beaten so badly. To wit, your argument that we would not lose this badly with a well-funded league is without merit given the statiscally small number of times we have lost this badly.
I don't want to get into that arguement, but I'd just like to point to the example of the Czechs, who export their youngsters later, and have a decent domestic league and a superb NT.

[theworm2345]

For what reason might that be? Can anyone give me one (besides personal issues again Doherty (add in Breen here) and Connolly, Ive heard them all)? I cant think of multple reasons for each of them why they should be in the squad.
Could I have been right here? Of course, in Saipan, Staunton supported Mick McCarthy (at least I assume so as he sat with him at the press conference) and according to Keane's book, Gary Breen and David Connolly supported Roy. Now neither of them are in the squad (Connolly may have not been in regardless, but Breen?). Perhaps I'm wrong, but it could be, as it did say on FAI.ie (Holland match) that Breen, Doherty, Connolly and maybe a few others were not selected for "other reasons" that were not mentioned

Yeah, Im probably wrong