Jim Roddy - All-Ireland League

[dcfcsteve]

Just thought i'd throw the cat amongst the pidgeons here but since the initial premise of Derry's inclusion into the LOI in 1985 looks 'anachronistic' (God spite me for saying that word) given the current political process, are there moves underfoot by the IFA to bring Derry City back into the IL.

This could be a double edged sword here being the fact the the talk of the proposed AIL might make the IFA move on Derry. Is Derry's membership of the eL copperfastened by both FIFA & UEFA?

I love the angle of your question Partizan - suggesting that it's at the IFA's discretion on whether or not we would return to the Irish League !

Reality is the complete opposite. The Irish League would take Derry City back in a heartbeat if we wanted. That is a fact. However - another fact is that we simply don't want to. We will not rejoin the Irish League. Why would we ? We're happy in a much better league and doing very well there thank you - without all the sectarian sh!te that is inescapable in Northern football on occassion.

The club's position is very clear - the only way DCFC will be back in the same league as the Northern teams is within an all-island set-up.

Now then - a more interesting, and equally as relevant, question would be - when are Shels and Bohs going to rejoin the Irish League......? :eek: :D

[Student Mullet]

I was down at the debate in Portlaoise and Delaney seemed in favour of an All Ireland League but still seperate associations and everything else.

I'm in favour myself and I wouldn't be surprised if we saw it sooner rather than later. I hope we stay on summer soccer though.

[David]

I was down at the debate in Portlaoise and Delaney seemed in favour of an All Ireland League but still seperate associations and everything else.

I'm in favour myself and I wouldn't be surprised if we saw it sooner rather than later. I hope we stay on summer soccer though.

Your last point is the one thing about an all Ireland League that I would have a problem with, I do not like the idea of summer football. What sort of effect, if any, has it had on attendances down south. I honestly believe it would have a detrimental effect up here. I also don't fancy telling my wife she cannot have her summer holiday because I won't miss watching Linfield for a few weeks, it would be divorce courts here I come. You have the added political difficulties in Northern Ireland every summer to contend with too.

[Strabane_Harp]

Your last point is the one thing about an all Ireland League that I would have a problem with, I do not like the idea of summer football. What sort of effect, if any, has it had on attendances down south. I honestly believe it would have a detrimental effect up here. I also don't fancy telling my wife she cannot have her summer holiday because I won't miss watching Linfield for a few weeks, it would be divorce courts here I come. You have the added political difficulties in Northern Ireland every summer to contend with too.


Just tell your wife its a romantic weekend in Cork :D

summer football hasnt affected attendances, but it sure as hell has improved the quality of football on view and european performance

[A face]

What sort of effect, if any, has it had on attendances down south.

In Cork we used to have average attendances of 1000-2000 for league games and that has risen 4000 with some full houses in that lot. Having replays and fixture pile ups doesn't help as extra games are midweek. Have sold out completely before a few games though. League and Setanta (because its midweek games) are lower attendances because they are midweek.

Over all there is a huge up turn in attendances in recent years and lots of people say its down to the brand of football we play. Summer soccer lends its self to this as players aren't swimming around in muck and can play football on the deck.

As said above ... being in good shape for Europe is THE biggest improvement ... Irish teams used to get spanked but last year people were wincing on the edge of their seats because Shels wouldn't play to their strengths and ended up throwing away a tie which would have been the furthest any Irish teams has ever gone.

[anto eile]

its very possible and most likely to happen at some stage in the next ten years. even many unionists would like to see it happen (provided it didnt change the status quo regarding international teams)

where theres a will theres a way- ie 18 team premier governed by a committee of elected ifa/fai/el/il directors, and two regional 1st divisions governed by the fail/el and the ifa/il repsectively would enable everyone to fudge the issue neatly

stubbornly saying "it wont happen" ad nauseum isnt an argument. logic dictates that it will

[anto eile]

I agree entirely. I'm just trying to correct Steve's maths. As a UCD fan, I'd welcome it too (though with the proviso of an expanded Premier). We'd still have the Fair Play award anyway!


If the IFA and the FAI don't join in, there's no European slots at all. The clubs have much less sway than you make out.
and if the fai and ifa have no league then they have no international team either.

[anto eile]

Losing European slots is quite clearly an issue

its not rally. use your amazing knowledge of maths to average out the amount of games that EL teams play in europe,and the resulting benefits. the benefits of one or two rounds over two weeks of the summer pales in comparison to the potential of a 36 game season in a resurgent All Ireland league
shels got to play in two ruounds of the champions league last summer. their finances hinge on such risks, its actually dangerous for clubs to do so, by basing their financial well'being on two weeks of the summer theyre running huge risks, as oposed to havinga steady 36game season in a financially prudent and regenerated AIL

[anto eile]

There are way too many clubs playing League football on this island , especially North of the Border. The number of clubs South of the border in financial difficulties is one example of it. There are also a number of clubs North of the border struggling financially. The demise of Omagh Town is another example of it, and over the next 5-10 years I expect to see anywhere from 2-4 clubs South of the Border go bust and another 5-10 clubs North of the border go bust.

That would leave before the advent of an All-Ireland League something like an 18 team Eircom League and possibly only a two division Irish League.
the second division in the IL is only intermediate, theyre not senior clubs and cruel as it may seem, they can be discarded when it comes to an AIL. given they are intermediate id consider them to be about as relevant to an AIL as leinster senior league teams

(apologies for the multiple posts, just replying as i go through the thread)

[anto eile]

Your last point is the one thing about an all Ireland League that I would have a problem with, I do not like the idea of summer football. What sort of effect, if any, has it had on attendances down south. I honestly believe it would have a detrimental effect up here. I also don't fancy telling my wife she cannot have her summer holiday because I won't miss watching Linfield for a few weeks, it would be divorce courts here I come. You have the added political difficulties in Northern Ireland every summer to contend with too.
seen cliftonville v loughgall on saturday, the abysmal state of the pitch reminded me of one of the simple but HUGE benefits of summer football-the relatively good state of the pitches in the EL over the last couple of seasons.

as for the parade season and summer holidays....a 2-3 week mid season break in july to allow for international tournaments (ie this year the EL will have a break for the world cup anyway) as well as allowing clubs competing in europe time off from the league to prepare for europe. the fact that it will mean a break in football during the marching season is merely a side benefit that we can pretend we didnt consider..but will benefit us anyway

attendances have stayed more or less averaged the same. i think mid season they are down while the early and late periods of the season the bigger games are seeing better crowds
european rsults have definitely improved. irish league teams should look at this.il teams are embarrassing themselves in europe still while only in the last few years has it seen the EL teams results significantly improve

[A face]

I think if things are to move forward something similar is going to have to happen. If anyone seriously thinks either association gives a twopenny f.uck about senior domestic soccer they need their head examined. This move if it comes will be as a result of a handful of relatively major teams saying "times up lads, we've had enough".

I'd agree with you there, but i'd really really hope it doesn't come to that. I'd like to see the associations moving with the times, i mean they actually are meant to be leading the way imo.

The FAI and eL are due to merge hopefully within two years time. When (if) that happens, then i think it'll make anything down south more mobile and easier to shuffle around.

[Lux Interior]

Basically the FAI are up for it, the big clubs North and South are up for it and momentum is a powerful thing.

KOH

Linfield, officially, are NOT up for an A-IL.

Apologies, if already been posted.

[Dassa]

The FAI and eL are due to merge hopefully within two years time. When (if) that happens, then i think it'll make anything down south more mobile and easier to shuffle around.

IFA and Il combined up here now and its all still a joke. Hopefully when your amalgamation goes ahead its more benificial than the s..t we have.

[Lux Interior]

I think if things are to move forward something similar is going to have to happen. If anyone seriously thinks either association gives a twopenny f.uck about senior domestic soccer they need their head examined. This move if it comes will be as a result of a handful of relatively major teams saying "times up lads, we've had enough".

Nail on head, here.

I don't know what contempt the FAI has for it's senior members but I do know the IFA has thrown (almost all) it's lot in with the national side, whilst continuing to maladminister the local league. We have been allocated £8million govt. money for the sport (at all levels) but on the proviso that the IFA is re-organised root and canal.

This has been ongoing for TWO years and clubs are deprived of much needed cash whilst the suits bicker over which gravy train to de-rail.

"Times up, we've had enough". Yeah, but the loss of European places will hit the Glens hard, particularly as we qualify virtually every year (and made a tidy sum this year with minimal travelling costs to Dublin, rather than, say, Israel). Personally, I like a trip to Europe but it's a one/two game excursion and I'd much rather watch a higher standard of football each week.

The issue of national sides shouldn't be side-stepped. Feelings run deeper here than whether we play Loughgall or Bohs.

[Lux Interior]

IFA and Il combined up here now and its all still a joke. Hopefully when your amalgamation goes ahead its more benificial than the s..t we have.

Dassa, if anything it's got progressively worse because the contempt for the irish League, displayed by the new streamlined suit, was never more obvious than the ridiculous fines totalling £26k handed out to Glentoran and Linfield lst week.

Particularly after the shabby and shady way they managed the whole affair.

[Dassa]

lets face it there are no big trips around the world for free connected to IL or EL football so many within the associations just dont give a f..k. you know who were talking about.

[Macy]

In Cork we used to have average attendances of 1000-2000 for league games and that has risen 4000 with some full houses in that lot. Having replays and fixture pile ups doesn't help as extra games are midweek. Have sold out completely before a few games though. League and Setanta (because its midweek games) are lower attendances because they are midweek.
With a much more successful team it has to be said.

Attendances seem to be up at successful clubs, down at the rest especially rural clubs. So pretty much the same as it ever was. It certainly hasn't been the great benefit that some proponates claim - has to be taken as part of more professional clubs, better players, as well as better pitches and better weather.

I was at a game in england over the weekend, and give me Saturday afternoon, 3pm kick off, winter football on crisp afternoons like that rather than summer football, but that's just me.

[monkey magic]

The simple fact of this matter is that the moment a handful of top teams agree in principle to an all island league and then go to their associations and TELL them it is going to happen then all the head shaking from the likes of Jim Boyce won't be worth a tinkers****.

If a total of ten teams from the north and south make this decision and form a company to administer and promote the concept then the game is up. Simple as. Yes the IFA can try to play tough but if the IL loses two or three from the following: Linfield, Glentoran, Portadown, Glenavon or Crusaders then the IL as a senior contest is over. Slightly higher numbers signing up would be needed from the EL but take, say, any four or five from the following, Shelbourne, Derry, Cork, Bohs, St Pats, Sligo, Finn Harps, Drogheda and the EL is pretty ****ed.


ya know i doubt it would even take that many clubs to force change, id hazard a guess that if any two of the big three up north were to back such a proposal combined with any three of shels, bohs, cork and derry the ifa and fai would be facing a serious problem..

and as regards fifa and uefa blocking it, i fail to see how they could, as was mentioned before the combination of our entitlement to dual nationality under the gfa, and the eu's restraint of trade laws suggests, to me at least, that they could be sucesfully challenged on this.

and as regards this opening the floodgates for other clubs such as celtic to join bigger leagues, surely this would be seen as an exceptional case given the political situation in this country?

or course im far from an expert on any of the aforementioned issues, and thay may well be not that simple, here but im starting to think that an AIL may not be all that difficult to achieve

[David]

Linfield, officially, are NOT up for an A-IL.

Apologies, if already been posted.

Correct. The Linfield Chairman has denied being involved in any talks and I was at a meeting recently where he stated he was against it.

[ConorE]

What level of success would we need to achieve in Europe to be give another UEFA place?

[Dazzy]

What level of success would we need to achieve in Europe to be give another UEFA place?

To make up another 20 positions in the co-efficent thing! good group stage should do the trick!!:o

[thejollyrodger]

i think northern clubs will have no option but to beg to join a sucessful southern league. There will be far more money down south, better facilites and bigger crowds and teams who can actually make group stages of the UEFA CUP / C.L.

Who would want to play in a nightmare northern ireland back water anyway

[David]

i think northern clubs will have no option but to beg to join a sucessful southern league. There will be far more money down south, better facilites and bigger crowds and teams who can actually make group stages of the UEFA CUP / C.L.

Who would want to play in a nightmare northern ireland back water anyway

Posts like this are totally unhelpful. It seems to be that both leagues need each other. The facilities in both leagues I would say leave a lot to be desired with Windsor and Mourneview a match for any EL stadium. In recent years the EL grounds that I have been at are minimal (Derry City, Longford, Tolka and Dalymount but in the past I have been at Sligo, Dundalk, Finn Harps and Athlone Town. Tolka looks decent but some of the facilities there are awful. When we were there the toilets were a disgrace so I certainly do not think that EL league clubs can claim much superiority with facilities.

[liamon]

A few years ago, the big teams in Europe wnated more chances to play each other and rake in cash, but no one wanted to lose out on their existing markets....hence the revamped European Cup/Champions League system. This more or less guarantees the big teams some mini league football in the autumn and then a few more games after Xmas. Lots of tv exposure and lots of cash.

Would it surprise anyone to see the Setanta Cup extended to include a league format, while preserving the existing doemstic leagues. Include more teams and play mid-week over several months from Jan-June or whatever suits. Maybe have the league section in Autumn and play offs in Feb-March? That way, we get our AI league, we retain Eurpean spots and the clubs get more cash.

Should please everyone and that's what I expect to see happening.

[David]

A few years ago, the big teams in Europe wnated more chances to play each other and rake in cash, but no one wanted to lose out on their existing markets....hence the revamped European Cup/Champions League system. This more or less guarantees the big teams some mini league football in the autumn and then a few more games after Xmas. Lots of tv exposure and lots of cash.

Would it surprise anyone to see the Setanta Cup extended to include a league format, while preserving the existing doemstic leagues. Include more teams and play mid-week over several months from Jan-June or whatever suits. Maybe have the league section in Autumn and play offs in Feb-March? That way, we get our AI league, we retain Eurpean spots and the clubs get more cash.

Should please everyone and that's what I expect to see happening.

I would agree that this would probably be the next step and something that I would expect to happen in the next couple of years.

[thejollyrodger]

what you on about bohsfan ? Give it a few years and you would have no facilites if it werent for the government money and shels offering a ground share with you lot. The amount of money you were spending on players wages and yet couldnt afford it.

By right Shels should move to Abbotstown or Lissadel since the Metro will be operating there in the next 6 years. That gives us enough time to save up , get planning permission, build the stadium and move in. We could concentrate on growing our fan base there liek what the Shams are doing..

thats off topic though. The fact of the matter is that the northern irish teams are vastly inferior both technically and physically to the EL sides. Everyone knows Shels gave Linfield the Setanta Cup last year out of good will. It was a sop to the northerns to get them intrested.

If any of those clubs like Glentoran, Linfield etc joined the EL they would be mid table at best and probably fighting relegation

[dcfcsteve]

Everyone knows Shels gave Linfield the Setanta Cup last year out of good will. It was a sop to the northerns to get them intrested.

I look forward to seeing if anyone bites for you on this one.... :D


If any of those clubs like Glentoran, Linfield etc joined the EL they would be mid table at best and probably fighting relegation

I'm happy to take a bite on this one myself. If any of the 'big' clubs in the south should be worried about their future in an all-island league, it's Shels !

Linfield and Glens have very big active, passive and potential fan bases. You can hardly scrape 1,800 for your first home game of the new season against the Northern Irish Champions, ffs !

Once playing in a league with greater competition and more money available, the inherent strengths of teams like Linfield and Glentoran will propel them to the fore. The inherent weaknesses of teams like Shels (namely a low fanbase) will see them pushed down the pecking order by the bigger clubs...

[A face]

If any of the 'big' clubs in the south should be worried about their future in an all-island league, it's Shels !

But the Bohs merger will be nearly complete soon so that should raise the attendance a bit though yeah !?! ;)

[Lux Interior]

i think northern clubs will have no option but to beg to join a sucessful southern league. There will be far more money down south, better facilites and bigger crowds and teams who can actually make group stages of the UEFA CUP / C.L.




rodger, there are two clubs in the "northern backwater" with away followings EVERY EL club chairman / treasurer would happily embrace.

:)

[Lux Interior]

If any of those clubs like Glentoran, Linfield etc joined the EL they would be mid table at best and probably fighting relegation

Yeah, possibly (in our case, at the mo, definitely).

But only for a few seasons at best.

After that, order restored;)

[Lux Interior]

Lux, don't even dignify him, his lot (Shels) are in the process of begging a ground from us, except they are using the FAI to do the begging on their behalf so as it won't actually look like real honest to goodness- cap touching- knee bending- spare a bit o change for the hostel mistha-, begging at all. Thing is they sold the lease on the ground they currently use to pay stupid money to a bunch of aul donkeys. By the time an all island league is seriously on the table they probably won't even exist anymore, about 3 years so. It's really gonna make their 30 fans very unhappy.

Why are they "begging a ground"?

Are they not the resident Tolka Park club?:confused:

EDIT: just re-read your post properly

[thejollyrodger]

Were the most sucessful club in Europe FACT. We would have made it to the group stages of the champions league if it werent for a bitter narrow minded Eircom League. We were hit like a train when we came back for the league games after Europe. Thats another thread.

Shels do have problems with supporters but we are making head way. If we just had a definte position regarding the stadium we would be laughing and enjoy a lot more support..

The northern teams are inferior and thats another FACT.

[goattail]

Uefa wouldnt be the problem, its the greedy power grubbing scum that run the FAI and IFA that want to keep their cushy jobs and expense accounts. They are the reason we have two leagues and national teams in the first place. As for Uefa setting a precedent Ireland is hardly like Celtic and Rangers wanting to play in England or that Atlantic league nonsense back in the 90s. Every other sport has one league and one national team, even so its quite possable we could have one all Ireland league and keep two seperate national teams, for a time at least, we can claim the AIL was a steppingstone, would of had an even better chance if the league hadnt decided to hand over its future to the most incompatent, crooked non-government body in the country. Besides it wouldnt be a precedent, it would be a league that split in two re-establishing itself (couple of IFA founders playing in eL and all), we could also throw in a load of nonsense about communities coming together and healing the divide blahdy blah and so on, they couldnt refuse it.
Despite what FIFA and the British Olympic council might wish a Great Britain team is not going to happen and thanks to devolution its further away then ever.

I wouldnt say Northern teams are inferior, the top teamsfrom either league would be a boost the the other. And hopefully an eL team will win the Setanta cup this time around.

[David]

Were the most sucessful club in Europe FACT. We would have made it to the group stages of the champions league if it werent for a bitter narrow minded Eircom League. We were hit like a train when we came back for the league games after Europe. Thats another thread.

Shels do have problems with supporters but we are making head way. If we just had a definte position regarding the stadium we would be laughing and enjoy a lot more support..

The northern teams are inferior and thats another FACT.

But still nothing to back up these "FACTS".

[Speranza]

David, your search to facts to back up what is widely accepted by the media on this island and anyone with any knowledge of football is futile. People like your clubs manager ensure there are no "facts" because there will always be a nice little excuse to fall back on. These excuses range from "our players are tired" to "Derry City are a full time team" to "the ref was rubbish" and all of these are rubbish. I would rather City players had a packed schedule heading into the Setanta than be in pre-season and we are not full time and I know your manager really struggles to accept that one but trust me we aren't.

[Student Mullet]

Were the most sucessful club in Europe FACT.You had a good run 2 years ago. Get over it.


We would have made it to the group stages of the champions league if it werent for a bitter narrow minded Eircom League.You would have made the group stages had you won all the qualifiers. You didn't and you didn't, there's no conspiracy.


If we just had a definte position regarding the stadium we would be laughing and enjoy a lot more support.. The confusion over your stadium is only recent, what problems you have pre-date it.


The northern teams are inferior and thats another FACT.The Setanta Cup will decide that. The IL is one nill up at the moment.

[A face]

Lux, don't even dignify him, his lot (Shels) are in the process of begging a ground from us, except they are using the FAI to do the begging on their behalf so as it won't actually look like real honest to goodness- cap touching- knee bending- spare a bit o change for the hostel mistha-, begging at all. Thing is they sold the lease on the ground they currently use to pay stupid money to a bunch of aul donkeys. By the time an all island league is seriously on the table they probably won't even exist anymore, about 3 years so. It's really gonna make their 30 fans very unhappy.

"Pleeze gov'nah ... has you got six'pince for a bottle o'gin .... thanks you sir, thanks you ... good day to ya sirs, good day" !! :p

[sonofstan]

But still nothing to back up these "FACTS".

everything from (the soon to be former) residents of Tolka is like that -

[CollegeTillIDie]

The point that one of the Linfield posters here made is very valid. That is the whole summer soccer thing in an All_Ireland League context. Assuming all other obstacles are overcome, it will be impossible to play matches in the IFA jurisdiction during at least the month of July and possibly longer and I am open to correction on just how long that window might have to be.

[David]

David, your search to facts to back up what is widely accepted by the media on this island and anyone with any knowledge of football is futile. People like your clubs manager ensure there are no "facts" because there will always be a nice little excuse to fall back on. These excuses range from "our players are tired" to "Derry City are a full time team" to "the ref was rubbish" and all of these are rubbish. I would rather City players had a packed schedule heading into the Setanta than be in pre-season and we are not full time and I know your manager really struggles to accept that one but trust me we aren't.

I can back it up with facts though. The last two times an all Ireland competiton has been played we have won it yet people still say we are inferior. Last year we played Shelbourne (supposedly the best team by far anywhere on the island) at their home ground in the final and we beat them. How more comprehensive can it be yet some people are saying that it is not reflective. Yet if an EL club win it this year then that means all the best teams are in the EL. Forgive me for finding this logic baffling.

[David]

I would totally agree with this and have said a few times that overall EL is the stronger. However I feel the gap at the top of each division is minimal and pretty much on a par.

[thejollyrodger]

Im not going to reply to some of those idiotic posts but just to remind a few people we humilated Glens this year and what was the score line in the Champions League qualifers again ? Games that count that is.

Bohs are in more trouble that we will ever be. We have won the title more recently that you have and Tolka is grand for the time being but we need to follow the shams example of making ourselfves more invovled in a local comunity.

As for an All ireland league. well we have more or less seen what the crowds would be like and the standard of play offered by the best of what NI can offer. Its not up to much and the northern ireland teams can benefit a lot more than us.

[ConorE]

JR, I suggest you go to the Shels site where the most prominent poster such as Higgens etc. ALL accept that your days at Tolka are numbered. THIS IS THE REALITY, you can run around with your fingers in your ears but it's just making you look even more stupid.

Bohs are in a fairly decent position at the moment. We have our debts to a managable level and most of all own a five acres patch in the middle of Phibsboro. Your club has been selling its home from underneath itself for the past couple of years and your only realistic option lies in Dalymount. As you can imagine, the punters/members/owners down that way are not overly eager to assist an organisation that tried to publicly humiliate our club in both action, in the form of signing players, and in the form of well documented words from Ollie. As BohsFan said, your best option would be to speak very nicely to us and hope to God that the current 90% against letting Shels in to our home changes to the required 75% for. Unlikely I know, but you haven't much else.

[Lux Interior]

As for an All ireland league. well we have more or less seen what the crowds would be like and the standard of play offered by the best of what NI can offer. Its not up to much and the northern ireland teams can benefit a lot more than us.

JR, check out the respective away followings at last seasons Champions League qualifier, if you're going down the 'crowd' route .......

:)

[thejollyrodger]

Im at work and dont have the time to reply to all that nonsense. Your a bitter man bohsFan and your club isnt up to much Lux.

FORZA SHELS

[Speranza]

Comparing crowds is more pointless bravado. Glens and Linfield have huge away followings because the furthest they have to travel is to Institute. You have the Belfast clubs and I include Distillery in this and then the ones like Larne, Bangor and Ards who are a stone throw away.

The only clubs who can shout about their away support on this island are clubs with a large distance to travel. Ourselves, Harps, Cork e.t.c have to travel to Dublin every few weeks which is a trek compared to a jaunt around the six counties. Critics of an AIL in the North often cite the long distances to away matches as a stumbling block so the commitment to travel away.

Comparing leagues, crowds, resources e.t.c is not what is needed. Clubs with potential and willingness to succeed in Europe need to start looking after themselves and cut out the deadwood who stunt the growth of football on our island. This is more of an issue to IL teams who ahve to face minnows every few weeks but it is certainly becoming an issue to us in the EL.

[anto eile]

Were the most sucessful club in Europe FACT. We would have made it to the group stages of the champions league if it werent for a bitter narrow minded Eircom League. We were hit like a train when we came back for the league games after Europe. Thats another thread.

Shels do have problems with supporters but we are making head way. If we just had a definte position regarding the stadium we would be laughing and enjoy a lot more support..

.
im laughing at that post anyway:D:D

[Lux Interior]

Comparing crowds is more pointless bravado. Glens and Linfield have huge away followings because the furthest they have to travel is to Institute. You have the Belfast clubs and I include Distillery in this and then the ones like Larne, Bangor and Ards who are a stone throw away.

The only clubs who can shout about their away support on this island are clubs with a large distance to travel. Ourselves, Harps, Cork e.t.c have to travel to Dublin every few weeks which is a trek compared to a jaunt around the six counties. Critics of an AIL in the North often cite the long distances to away matches as a stumbling block so the commitment to travel away.

Comparing leagues, crowds, resources e.t.c is not what is needed. Clubs with potential and willingness to succeed in Europe need to start looking after themselves and cut out the deadwood who stunt the growth of football on our island. This is more of an issue to IL teams who ahve to face minnows every few weeks but it is certainly becoming an issue to us in the EL.

The issue of "crowds" will be a major variable in the construction of any new A-IL because one of the current burning issues is the amount of empty terrace at any given ground north or south. Large away gates will always be welcomed by any club treasurer and make no mistake, Glens and Blues WILL travel in numbers. Surely the "deadwood", notwithstanding any progress on the pitch, are clubs who are racking up home crowds in the region of the low hundreds anyway?

I think any club who can regularly turn out 700 plus away following during the worst season on and off the pitch in living memory can certainly have "something to shout about", regardless of distance travelled.

[David]

The issue of "crowds" will be a major variable in the construction of any new A-IL because one of the current burning issues is the amount of empty terrace at any given ground north or south. Large away gates will always be welcomed by any club treasurer and make no mistake, Glens and Blues WILL travel in numbers. Surely the "deadwood", notwithstanding any progress on the pitch, are clubs who are racking up home crowds in the region of the low hundreds anyway?

I think any club who can regularly turn out 700 plus away following during the worst season on and off the pitch in living memory can certainly have "something to shout about", regardless of distance travelled.

I would agree with this. In the event of an all Ireland League I still think the Blues and Glens will have a very substantial away support. For last year's Setanta final when Shelbourne were at home, Linfield near enough matched their support. We took in the region of 600 to Longford on a Monday night when tickets were restricted to certain groups of supporters and I would expect us to take between 700 and 1000 to Shels later this month on a Monday night and sell out our allocation against Derry City with many people left disappointed.

[Speranza]

To keep up my cynicism of IL away support....the reason Blues and Glens take big support to these matches is because the Setanta cup and process of travelling to strange places is still a novelty. For further evidence of this check our own away support when we first came into the EL, although we still travel well the numbers in those days were amazing.

In an AIL this novelty will die and give it a few years and I would say you won't get this 700 crowd to Cork or Waterford.