Brian Kerr Documentary

[sligoman]

It's called "Final Words". Next Tuesday at 10:15pm on RTE 1. Watch it!;).

[thejollyrodger]

looking forward to the show.

(ever hear that sketch of him on today fm ? pure funny)

[onenilgameover]

I'ill be watchin it myself....in fairness I reckon its gonna fairly pathetic showing from BK. Back tracking, reversing and generally defending himself badly....

[thejollyrodger]

he was useless on the late late show in fairness. weak and pathetic (even though i thought he did alright with the ireland team considering)

[sligoman]

Back tracking, reversing and generally defending himself badly....You talking about Kerr or the Irish team?:confused: :D.

[Reality Bites]

Think i'll go on the beer that night, listening to Kerr on the Late Late was cringeworthy enough without this giving him a forum to justify himself, when the truth is we all know he was a one trick pony bluffer in way over his head..

[eirebhoy]

Jesus, I can't wait until Kerr proves himself. I'm getting fed up listening to this. He made his mistakes but he had us playing some quality football a lot of the time. Motivational skills was probably his biggest flaw but he'll learn from experience. Gerard Houllier couldn't motivate Mike Tyson yet he's doing really well at Lyon.

People like to use "out of his depth" as an excuse for everything regarding Kerr. Out of his depth means he'd find it hard to handle a few primadonna's an things like that, it doesn't mean his brain decides to go and make some crazy tactical decisions that he wouldn't have made on his way to winning European titles at underage level and league titles with Pats.

[onenilgameover]

Jesus, I can't wait until Kerr proves himself. I'm getting fed up listening to this. He made his mistakes but he had us playing some quality football a lot of the time. Motivational skills was probably his biggest flaw but he'll learn from experience. Gerard Houllier couldn't motivate Mike Tyson yet he's doing really well at Lyon.

People like to use "out of his depth" as an excuse for everything regarding Kerr. Out of his depth means he'd find it hard to handle a few pre-Madonna's an things like that, it doesn't mean his brain decides to go and make some crazy tactical decisions that he wouldn't have made on his way to winning European titles at underage level and league titles with Pats.


EB in fairness it seems Kerr could have made every single decision a bad one and you would still back him up....and I don't reckon kerr will ever get a chance to prove himself (not in the way he or yourself might want) and that I reckon is a shame. He deserve's a second chance but no way with Ireland. The ''out of his depth'' stuff i'm not sure about.....at any rate of course it was always gonna be mentioned because of his background..thats the kind of stuff ye just have to put up with untill ye prove that your not ''out of depth''. Kerr I'm sorry to say did not prove himself and this kind of show if it is done in the way I think it will be done ie ''Final Words..........on how everyone else is to blame but me'' will not further Kerr chance of being a sucessful manager again at any level....

and Houllier inherited that Lyon team and he'ill mess it up in time.....Won't be French Champions next year I reckon...

[eirebhoy]

EB in fairness it seems Kerr could have made every single decision a bad one and you would still back him up....
Because he's an excellent manager. I have no reason to be biased. I don't usually make statements like that without using phrases like "in my opinion" after it but I'm certain he'll prove a success.

[CraftyToePoke]

Because he's an excellent manager. I have no reason to be biased. I don't usually make statements like that without using phrases like "in my opinion" after it but I'm certain he'll prove a success.

what level will he have to drop to in order to get back into the game, do you reckon EB ?

[Stuttgart88]

pre-Madonna

That'd be around 1982 then I suppose, give or take a year or two? :)

"Holiday" was the first one I remember.

Sorry, am in pedantic mode today.

[onenilgameover]

Because he's an excellent manager. I have no reason to be biased. I don't usually make statements like that without using phrases like "in my opinion" after it but I'm certain he'll prove a success.


Fair enough if that's your opinion but he was anything but excellent with Ireland. I can't see how your opinion hasn't changed looking back on it....

[Reality Bites]

EB its time you took of your rose-tinted St Pats Glasses and accept facts that Kerr was a deperately poor international manager ( for chrissakes Gary Doherty bailed him out twice) at best he can hope for is a Job with a League one side or assisstant coach at Championship side, but a premiership manager - Ur having a Laff!!

[eirebhoy]

That'd be around 1982 then I suppose, give or take a year or two? :

"Holiday" was the first one I remember.

Sorry, am in pedantic mode today.
I deserved that, silly mistake. :)


EB its time you took of your rose-tinted St Pats Glasses and accept facts that Kerr was a deperately poor international manager ( for chrissakes Gary Doherty bailed him out twice) at best he can hope for is a Job with a League one side or assisstant coach at Championship side, but a premiership manager - Ur having a Laff!!
I had very little interest in the Eircom league a few years ago. I posted on another forum saying I'm going to take a bit more of an interest in our domestic league. I felt it would be easier if I took a team up to start following and since Pats are the closest team to me I took my nephew with me to Richmond Park a few times since then. By no means would I call myself a Pats fan and I certainly wasn't when Kerr was in charge so there's no rose tinted glasses on me. my interest in Pats is usually a lot bigger at the start of the season than it is at the end. :) Maybe in a few years I can call myself a fan.

I just hope this site is still up when Kerr proves himself at the top. :)

[geysir]

Maybe in a few years I can call myself a fan.
So that explains the plastic pats thing ;;;; very good.

He made his mistakes but he had us playing some quality football a lot of the time.
Almost any bog standard manager could have brought the team down to this level and over the course of 18 competitive games could pull out of the hat the odd golden 20 minutes from here and there. It was the most uninspired, unmemorable first 3 years of any manager since.... ... Mick Meagan?
We will find out more when the next manager has his chance with the team. I hope Kerr can get another profile job and do well with it.

[eirebhoy]

So that explains the plastic pats thing ;;;; very good.

Almost any bog standard manager could have brought the team down to this level and over the course of 18 competitive games could pull out of the hat the odd golden 20 minutes from here and there. It was the most uninspired, unmemorable first 3 years of any manager since.... ... Mick Meagan?
We will find out more when the next manager has his chance with the team. I hope Kerr can get another profile job and do well with it.
It was no worse than McCarthy's start. I'm not going to debate this again as I've done so before. Do a search. :)

[Irish_Praha]

Lyon are 12 points clear at the top of the French league, a league which still has 6 teams involved in Europe (England only has 5). They are unbeaten after 18 games. Lyon won their group in the Champions League, finishing 6 points ahead of second placed Real Madrid. Their points total, 16 points, was the joint top amount of points in the CL.

If you were being fair, then instead of claiming that Houllier is going to mess it up, you would admit that he has done extremely well so far.

Well they just lost 3-1 against Lille at home. The beginning of the end?
I fully expect them to win the league but they wont hang onto their 12 point lead - less than 5 I would say. He'll eventually destroy them.

[geysir]

Here is the promotion for the show, I 'll have my handkerchief close by.

Brian Kerr's World Cup Story
A retrospective documentary featuring Brian Kerr in which he discusses the drama of the world cup qualifiers, his dealings with the FAI and the heartbreak of losing his dream job.

The critically acclaimed retrospective series looks back on the World Cup Qualifiers. RTÉ Sport went to great lengths to capture the ups and downs of the teams' journey by filming every game from Paris to Tel Aviv. In-depth interviews with Brian Kerr and several journalists help to paint the picture of this eventful World Cup campaign, and the drama that surrounded it.

Filmed over 18 months, giving an insight into the pressures of one of Irelands most high profile jobs, the documentary will be broadcast on RTÉ One - Tuesday December 20th at 22.15.

[eirebhoy]

C'mon. He's not a villain that tried to kill all our players. He tried his best and his best was not good enough.

Lets just watch the documentary and see what he has to say.

[gustavo]

exactly , i dont agree with the people who say "he was out of his depth" what exactly is "his depth" is it any deeper than micks?

[onenilgameover]

Lyon are 12 points clear at the top of the French league, a league which still has 6 teams involved in Europe (England only has 5). They are unbeaten after 18 games. Lyon won their group in the Champions League, finishing 6 points ahead of second placed Real Madrid. Their points total, 16 points, was the joint top amount of points in the CL.

If you were being fair, then instead of claiming that Houllier is going to mess it up, you would admit that he has done extremely well so far.


thats alright for now and fair point...but eventually his managership will effect the players and bring the team down. Honeymoon period at the mo imho...

[TheJamaicanP.M.]

It says in today's star newpaper that Kerr blames the players for not qualifying. He says they were not good enough and accepts no responsibility for letting go of a 2 nil lead at home to Israel. While I wouldn't believe eveything I read in the papers, I've really grown to dislike Kerr. He never accepts that he made mistakes and puts forth the view that he's more tactically proficient than everyone else. While he might have lots of fans on this forum claiming that he deserved a chance as much as McCarthy, I don't buy that one. The performances were just so lacking in passion and commitment, something we couldn't accuse McCarthy's team of. I watched the video of the home game against France recently. The team was afraid. We barely threatened the French goal during the game. We played for a draw and it backfired.

Against the Swiss, Kerr (the tactical genius) dropped Graham Kavanagh. He played John O'Shea instead, a player who played well in that position against Burnley in the Carling Cup a couple of seasons ago.:rolleyes: O'Shea got his first meaningful touch of the ball after 27 minutes of the Swiss game. Even in the remaining minutes of the game, I saw Gary Doherty warming up and thought surely Kerr will go for it. Surely he'll take off Stephen Carr and play Doherty alongside Morrison and Elliott. No, Kerr decided to finish the Swiss game with 6 defenders on the field. For me, that epitomised the negativity of Kerr. Compare that to Mick McCarthy's first campaign which he finished with an away game in Belgium 8 years ago. McCarthy's team went out 3-2 on aggregate (a dubious goal cost them), but at least they went for it.

That squad of McCarthy's was a collection of veterans and kids, and he certainly did not have the options that Kerr had. It was that passionate performance that probably won McCarthy a new contract. The players were simply not willing to stand up for Kerr in the same way. He was unable to inspire them. When Roy Keane returned to the Irish squad and belittled the McCarthy era in a press conference, Kerr sat beside him sniggering. I just wonder did the players (many who are still loyal to McCarthy) resent Kerr's behaviour. The irony of it all is that the laugh is now on Kerr. He's going to be a bitter old man and he'll be in good company with the likes of Liam Tuohy and Eoin Hand.
One thing is for sure, my opinions will not be altered by his propaganda coup with RTE next Tuesday night.

[geysir]

i dont agree with the people who say "he was out of his depth"
Neither do I.
I don't consider Kerr was out of his depth. Possibly a lack of connection between himself and the team, possibly too cautious, possibly has not got the motivation skills that work with the players, possibly a combination of too many players off form, injured, suspended at wrong time or not enough feckin pride. Its possible that he could have come good but imo very little evidence except for that welcome tightness from time to time and the away points. After18 competitive games it is enough.
I do not take into consideration the personal "hurt he feels at losing his dream job" compared to the mountain of hurt that followed the wimpish end to our non qualification campaign.

[onenilgameover]

I do not take into consideration the personal "hurt he feels at losing his dream job" compared to the mountain of hurt that followed the wimpish end to our non qualification campaign.

Well said sir!

[eirebhoy]

One thing is for sure, my opinions will not be altered by his propaganda coup with RTE next Tuesday night.
Imo you should leave that one open. He never out and out blamed the players and if he goes and says in Tuesday's interview that he's to blame then surely you have to change your opinion a little. I wouldn't read an article like that in the Star. I'd probably look out for the quotes if I was flicking through in the shop (then again, they're probably twisted) so whatever way RTE might present the documentary, its what Kerr says that interests me.

[Superhoops]

....Against the Swiss, Kerr (the tactical genius) dropped Graham Kavanagh. He played John O'Shea instead.......... Kerr decided to finish the Swiss game with 6 defenders on the field. For me, that epitomised the negativity of Kerr
It was those two decisions that lost BK credibility, even among his most ardent fans. We had to go for that game and BK's responsibility as manager was to play a team that 'went for it'. He didnt, and the rest is history. Nothing to do with the players, the FAI or the media, it was the manager's call and he blew it.

[geysir]

He's going to be a bitter old man and he'll be in good company with the likes of Liam Tuohy and Eoin Hand.
I don't understand where you are you are coming from with the 'bitter men' references to Hand and Tuohy.
with Tuohy
http://www.nufc.com/html/liam-tuohy.html

Eoin Hand does admit to being bitter over one person with the name Dunphy, because of the persistent personal attacks that were against him by Dunphy in his column. Which in no small way contributed to Eoin being spat upon in the street and his children being bullied at school.
Brian Kerr has already entered into the annals of Irish football history before his stint as senior manager, that remains unrevised and if he stands beside Tuohy and Hand then its an honor.

[klein4]

Imo you should leave that one open. He never out and out blamed the players and if he goes and says in Tuesday's interview that he's to blame then surely you have to change your opinion a little. I wouldn't read an article like that in the Star. I'd probably look out for the quotes if I was flicking through in the shop (then again, they're probably twisted) so whatever way RTE might present the documentary, its what Kerr says that interests me.
I saw the hedline in the indo claiming kerr said the players were not good enough but it wasnt really backed up by the article. it was more him making the point that he pretended that missing keane and duff wasnt a big blow at the time when it was. I think the programme is a documentery on Irelands qualifying. It was probably conceived with the hope we would qualify. so I dont think it is kerr tryin to do a repeat of his late late show appearance. even the supposedly hard hitting quotes on the fai are pretty tame. When I heard about it I thought it would be some sort of everyone else was wrong but me plea but nothing I have read really backs that up. Will watch it anyway and see.

[klein4]

It was those two decisions that lost BK credibility, even among his most ardent fans. We had to go for that game and BK's responsibility as manager was to play a team that 'went for it'. He didnt, and the rest is history. Nothing to do with the players, the FAI or the media, it was the manager's call and he blew it.
I like kavanagh but he had a mare against cyprus so I wouldnt have picked him. As for playing john o shea in midfield for such a big game...that was a strange one alrite....but I didnt think he had a really bad game or anything. probably just did it to keep him away from the defence:) and not wanting to gt into a big row again with the prime minister but i dont remember ireland bein that great against belgium at all....and do you not remember ireland away to croatia?? you couldnt have gotten more negative than that.

[eirebhoy]

I saw the hedline in the indo claiming kerr said the players were not good enough but it wasnt really backed up by the article. it was more him making the point that he pretended that missing keane and duff wasnt a big blow at the time when it was.
That is ridiculous tbh. As Brian O'Driscoll said "there's only one newspaper I'd read in this country". I think everyone could think what that one is.

Kerr said a while back that all we see of the players is their performances on the pitch. He said he see's them close up every day in training and that plays a big part in his team selection. It probably plays too big a part tbh.

[klein4]

That is ridiculous tbh. As Brian O'Driscoll said "there's only one newspaper I'd read in this country". I think everyone could think what that one is.
.

Le Monde?????

[OwlsFan]

Reminder - it's on tonight.

I anticipate that the FAI will be to blame for us conceding the 2 goals against Israel and not qualifying :eek:

Whatever way it pans out, it will bring back the pain of the non-qualification. I remember they did a similar one on Mick that night we lost the play-off in Brussels and Mick cried his eyes out. It was sad stuff :( .

[NeilMcD]

I was nearly crying watching the feckin add for it.

[pineapple stu]

It says in today's star newpaper that Kerr blames the players for not qualifying. He says they were not good enough
How can you blame people for not being good enough?


he had us playing some quality football a lot of the time.
Ah now. Switzerland home and away (x 2)? France home? Israel? Georgia? In fact, any non-friendly game?

Ireland played their best football of the last 20 years under McCarthy. Kerr was nowhere near that quality, unfortunately.

[eirebhoy]

Ah now. Switzerland home and away (x 2)? France home? Israel? Georgia? In fact, any non-friendly game?

Ireland played their best football of the last 20 years under McCarthy. Kerr was nowhere near that quality, unfortunately.
We really couldn't have done much better against France at home tbf. We played better in that match than we did at home to Holland 4 years ago. Macedonia x2, Iceland, Lithuania, Romania, Belgium, Turkey. None of them had us sitting comfortable in our chairs. We finished 10 points off Romania from a group filled with minnows and players like Irwin, Cunningham, Staunton, Keane, Houghton and Townsend. Ian Harte was playing well at the time as was Mark Kennedy and Gary Kelly.

So who did we play well against in McCarty's first 2 campaigns? Liechtenstein, Macedonia (h), Croatia (h), Malta (h). Any more?

Kerr is getting way too much critisism when his time in charge was no worse than McCarthy's first 2 campaigns.

It was our performances in friendlies and when we weren't trying to protect a lead that I liked under Kerr. When we were trying to protect a lead we were usually poor but I would have gave him one more shot. The fact that we could protect leads in friendlies leads me to believe it was a psychological reason that we kept retreating back after scoring in competitives.

[drinkfeckarse]

Ireland played their best football of the last 20 years under McCarthy. Kerr was nowhere near that quality, unfortunately.


While I agree normally with Eirebhoy I have to disagree about Kerr having us playing some lovely stuff. We played well in France, average at home to Cyprus and that was about it IMO.

[OwlsFan]

What is the definition of "best football" ? To me as a supporter the "best football" is when my team wins. I would much prefer to follow a team that wins rather than one that plays pretty football and loses. If the team wins in style that's a bonus. Jack's Ireland was not pretty to watch but I enjoyed almost every minute of it and we also played what the theorists would describe as good football on the odd occasion (e.g. Soviet Union 1-1 in Hannover and Norn Iron 3-0 at home).

Give me an Ireland team winning and qualifying with the long ball game than an Irish team failing to qualify by the passing game. Heresy for some perhaps but who remembers the losers ?

[cheifo]

Very unfair on Eoin Hand paticularly when you consider those incredible refeering decisions that went against us paticularly in Belgium.Incidentally
has anybody seen highlights of that game in recent years?Is it as bad as I remember.

[Jerry The Saint]

How can you blame people for not being good enough?



Roy Keane does it all the time. It's what makes him a LEGEND, apparently!

[NeilMcD]

To be fair I dont think Keane ever gives out to people for lack of talen its lack of effort that seems to really rub him up the wrong way.

[Paulie]

Some of the performances under Mick, particularly in his first campaign, were poor. The squad, due to age, lost a number of players from the previous campaign. I realise that generally this happens at the end of a campaign, that some players will call it a day, but this really was the end of an era. On top of this, there were several players that stayed on who were clearly past their best (Aldridge, Houghton, Townsend etc). I am not mentioning these players to criticise them for staying on, more to highlight that even at the age that these guys were at we still didn’t have anyone better coming through to take their place. Despite all this we still managed to get 2nd in the group and qualify for the play-offs going out by 1 goal over the two legs to Belgium.

In his next campaign we were very good at home beating Croatia and Yugoslavia but our away form cost us as we again lost out in the play-offs, this time on the away goals rule, having been only seconds away from topping the group outright. We all know how well his final campaign went. The point I’m really trying to make is that I think Mick lost a lot more in terms of players and experience than Brian Kerr did when he took over. Crucially Mick seemed to learn from his mistakes and made efforts to change things when he realised he was wrong i.e. when he initially took the job he tried 3 at the back but it didn’t work so, admittedly after a couple of shocking performances, he reverted to 4 at the back, after the Euro 2000 campaign he changed to playing 2 up front away from home and we went from carrying literally no threat to any half decent team away from home to being a dangerous attack minded team. Brian just did not seem to be able to get decent performances from the players and he didn’t seem to learn from his mistakes going back to his defensive tactics once Ireland took the lead. It gives me no pleasure in saying it but I don’t think that anyone can regard the performances of the team in the majority of competitive games under Brian Kerr as acceptable.

[eirebhoy]

While I agree normally with Eirebhoy I have to disagree about Kerr having us playing some lovely stuff. We played well in France, average at home to Cyprus and that was about it IMO.
We played some great football in the friendlies. I know, they're only friendlies but he showed that he knows what good football is. If we could find out why they couldn't convert that to competitive but I think its psychological. It was psychological reasons that we played so well in Paris imo. We weren't expected to even get a draw so there was nothing to lose. I bet if we went 0-1 down after a minute in every match we would have played some great football. Kavanagh said it wasn't a conscious effort by the players to sit back in matches, it just happened. That's the brain forcing them to do the number one priority of defending a lead.

Maybe you could put it down to Kerr's motivational skills.

[geysir]

So who did we play well against in McCarty's first 2 campaigns? Liechtenstein, Macedonia (h), Croatia (h), Malta (h). Any more?
Yugoslavia (h), Romania (a), I can't remember Yugoslavia (a),
Belgium (a) at least was better than loosing to Swiss (a).
There is some case for argueing Kerr favorably with McCarthy. But you still would need a good lawyer. We might still have to sacrifice Brian as an honor killing. :)

[eirebhoy]

Belgium (a) at least was better than loosing to Swiss (a).
How is that?

[pineapple stu]

What is the definition of "best football"?
Apologies. Eirebhoy's exact phrase was "style" of football, which is what I was referring to. Obviously, winning is the important thing, but if you're just talking style, then Kerr was below McCarthy.


We really couldn't have done much better against France at home tbf. We played better in that match than we did at home to Holland 4 years ago. Macedonia x2, Iceland, Lithuania, Romania, Belgium, Turkey. None of them had us sitting comfortable in our chairs. We finished 10 points off Romania from a group filled with minnows and players like Irwin, Cunningham, Staunton, Keane, Houghton and Townsend. Ian Harte was playing well at the time as was Mark Kennedy and Gary Kelly.

So who did we play well against in McCarty's first 2 campaigns? Liechtenstein, Macedonia (h), Croatia (h), Malta (h). Any more?

Kerr is getting way too much critisism when his time in charge was no worse than McCarthy's first 2 campaigns.
Ummm...almost none of that has to do with the point I raised. It's just random McCarthy bashing. Kerr's campaign was quite maesurably worse than McCarthy's first two - we finished in a lower position with fewer points against arguably poorer opposition (let's be honest - Israel, Cyprus and the Faroes were poor, and even the Swiss weren't world beaters; McCarthy's second group had two quarter-finallists from the World Cup just finished) and came out of it with very little to be positive about, to be honest.


It was our performances in friendlies and when we weren't trying to protect a lead that I liked under Kerr.
And when you come out with comments like that, I think it's time to say goodbye to this thread...

[eirebhoy]

Kerr's campaign was quite maesurably worse than McCarthy's first two
No it wasn't. I'm not bashing McCarthy, I'd love him to go on and win a major title.

McCarthy averaged 1.8 points in his world cup group containing Romania, Lithuania, Macedonia, Iceland and Liechtenstein. Kerr averaged 1.7 with France, Switzerland, Israel, Cyprus and Faroe Islands in the group. McCarthy didn't seem to do any better than Kerr there. If anything, Kerr's was better considering the quality of teams in the groups.

McCarthy averaged 2.0 points in a Euro group containing Yugoslavia, Croatia, Macedonia and Malta. That's fairly good. Kerr averaged 1.83 in a group containing Switzerland, Russia, Albania and Georgia. McCarthy did better there but Kerr had 1 friendly before his first competitive, McCarthy had 8.


Ummm...almost none of that has to do with the point I raised.
You're bringing up our bad performances under Kerr, I'm showing you that there was just as many in McCarthy's first 2 campaigns.


And when you come out with comments like that, I think it's time to say goodbye to this thread...
Don't be silly PS. I'm pointing out that Ireland usually played well when they didn't go in front. Its defending a lead that we had problems with. If Kerr could only have sorted that out. In saying that, in McCarthy's first 2 qualifying campaigns we lost just as many leads and failed to win. McCarthy got a 3rd campaign and he was not measurably better than Kerr in the first 2.

[pineapple stu]

McCarthy averaged 1.8 points in his world cup group containing Romania, Lithuania, Macedonia, Iceland and Liechtenstein. Kerr averaged 1.7 with France, Switzerland, Israel, Cyprus and Faroe Islands in the group. McCarthy didn't seem to do any better than Kerr there. If anything, Kerr's was better considering the quality of teams in the groups.
I agree those groups are rougly similar (though don't forget Iceland weren't far away from getting to the play-offs in 2000 or 2002 - they had a handy little team). However, you're comparing McCarthy's first campaign with Kerr's second, which is unfair.


Kerr averaged 1.83 in a group containing Switzerland, Russia, Albania and Georgia.
Kerr didn't have to play Russia away or Switzerland at home though. If you take away Croatia away and Yugoslavia at home, McCarthy averaged 2.17 points per game. Over a 10-game campaign, that's 3 points in the difference. Which is a big difference. The difference betwen qualifying and not, at our level. The difference between being a good and a not so good manager.


You're bringing up our bad performances under Kerr, I'm showing you that there was just as many in McCarthy's first 2 campaigns.
I don't think there were. But more importantly, let's compare good performances. Kerr - France away...Cyprus at home...that's about it? McCarthy - Liechtenstein home and away, Portugal home, Holland home and away, Macedonia home, Malta home, Germany (WC), Spain (WC) - McCarthy wins hands down. OK, some are against minnows, but you need to be able to play well against them as well. I don't think either game against the Faroes was particularly impressive at all, and we all know what happened away to Cyprus and Albania.
Actually bad performances - Kerr had Albania (H and A), Georgia (A), Russia (H), Switzerland (A), Switzerland (A), Israel (H and A), Cyprus (A) and you can throw in one of the Faroes games as well, probably the away one. That's nine in 16. McCarthy had Iceland (H), Macedonia (A), Lithuania (H), Macedonia (A), Croatia (A) and Turkey (H). Six in 22.


Don't be silly PS. I'm pointing out that Ireland usually played well when they didn't go in front. It's defending a lead that we had problems with.
Oh well that's alright so- Kerr was a world class manager when we were losing. Well that's a great help. That's his single biggest deficiency and you're turning it into a positive? Are you Kerr himself?


In saying that, in McCarthy's first 2 qualifying campaigns we lost just as many leads and failed to win. McCarthy got a 3rd campaign and he was not measurably better than Kerr in the first 2.
Factually incorrect. For a start, I think I've proven that McCarthy was measurably better than Kerr in his first two - on points, placing, points per game (in fact, you did the calculations) and standard of opposition. You even tried comparing Kerr's second campaign against McCarthy's first and still showed McCarthy to be better. I really don't know how else you can measure whose campaigns were better.

Secondly, Kerr threw away leads and subsequently failed to win against - Russia (H), Israel (H and A) and Switzerland (A). McCarthy did it against...Macedonia (A twice), Turkey (H), Belgium (H). The same number of times, but as a percentage of competitive games in the period (obviously a more reliable measure), that's four times in 16 games for Kerr versus four times in 22 for McCarthy. Again, a big difference.

I like Kerr. I wanted him to get the job when McCarthy was ousted. However, by no stretch of the imagination was he as good a manager as McCarthy and, in my opinion, he simply did not do enough to warrant a third campaign.

[eirebhoy]

I don't think there were. But more importantly, let's compare good performances. Kerr - France away...Cyprus at home...that's about it? McCarthy - Liechtenstein home and away, Portugal home, Holland home and away, Macedonia home, Malta home, Germany (WC), Spain (WC) - McCarthy wins hands down. OK, some are against minnows, but you need to be able to play well against them as well.
Kerr - France away, Cyprus home, Georgia home.
McCarthy - Leichtenstein x2, Macedonia home, Malta home. The rest were after the 2nd campaign.


You even tried comparing Kerr's second campaign against McCarthy's first and still showed McCarthy to be better.
I compared both Euro's and both WC's. I compared Kerr's first with McCarthy's 2nd too obviously.

Anyway, back off to watch the rest of this. :)

[Mayo Red]

Whatever else about how it all panned out in the end, watching the antics of that w@nker Dudu Awat still disgusts me!:mad:

[JimmyP]

Watching that documentary just stung...
revisting all that belief and optimism was a lot more painful than I thought it'd be.

I know there was a lot of expectation that the show would just be Brian Kerr trying to deflect all the blame and vindicate himself, but if anything, I'm more sure than ever than we need the change.