Brian Kerr Documentary

[pineapple stu]

Kerr - France away, Cyprus home, Georgia home.
McCarthy - Leichtenstein x2, Macedonia home, Malta home. The rest were after the 2nd campaign.
Georgia at home was average at best. A win, but nothing spectacular. Of the same standard as the 1-0 win over Macedonia.


I compared both Euro's and both WC's. I compared Kerr's first with McCarthy's 2nd too obviously.
Doesn't make any sense to do it that way though. If you'd've put Kerr's campaigns the right way around, you'd've seen the very important fact that Kerr's second campaign was worse than his first. McCarthy learned and improved. Kerr blamed everyone else and disimproved.

Must say Kerr came across as an awful moaner in the documentary. Everything was someone else's fault. He had some views which were held by himself alone - e.g. arguing that the team were very positive during the Israel away game?!

Never heard the French national anthem on telly though (was in the middle of it) - unbelievable stuff!! Can't believe I camped out in that Faroese weather either!

Nice to see a cameo from Schloomp after the home game against Israel. Thought I glimpsed a UCD scarf in Paris, but not sure. Any other foot.ie-ers make it on?


watching the antics of that w@nker Dudu Awat still disgusts me!
Incredible. And to think there was one Irish poster (no names!) who said the first challenge on Keane wasn't a penalty and that Awat was geniunely injured to the extent of blood running out of his nose! The pictures (again, at the match, so first time seeing it on telly) completely refuted that! :)

[klein4]

dont think he did himself any favours with a couple of the comments...
On the macarthy v kerr thing....you cant quote macarthys stats without taking into account a top of his game keanes contribution to some of them big games.(croatia,holland,portugal) we always struggled without him in the team. and Ireland were terrible against spain in the WC. anyone who remembers differently must have had the beer goggles on. I dont see how anyone looks at macarthys time as some golden era when we were playin great football.it just wasnt the case at all. making Iceland out to be some world beaters is a bad joke!

[eirebhoy]

Kerr should really have taken more of the blame in that documentary. I do agree with him that we just weren't good enough though. The last game of the qualifiers our best players were in and out of the Spurs team, Morrison was 4th choice at Birmingham, Kilbane wasn't getting his game for Everton, Harte was playing in the Spanish 2nd division. He should take the blame for having players like Doherty in the bloody squad though, never mind putting him on.

[dfx-]

I don't need to watch a rerun of the qualifiers. I saw the matches (except Israel (h) as I was abroad). It is blatently clear that Kerr was not capable of directing the Republic of Ireland any further. Comparing results to what France and Switzerland got - at the Faeroes, for example. "Ah well look at us, the plucky Irish up against far better teams". We were arguably the best team in that group and we threw it away. There is no excuse for the players were playing in the Romanian third division. We had the group for the taking. It was in our hands Not anyone else and when it came down to it, Kerr did not have the capability to clinch it. The players had given him the top of the group in June. He had 5 games to change it. After the farce away at Israel where he spotted we were defensive and did **** all about it except make it 4-5-1 in the last 10 minutes, despite saying he tried to make the players attack, he wanted to hold the result. He wanted to hold the result in Cyprus. We should have annihilated Cyprus, we ripped them open in the first 9 minutes and then shut up shop. We scored in Israel after 4 minutes and shut up shop again. Against Switzerland away he was determined to settle for a 1-1. We were lucky with a 1-1 draw then when Switzerland were tehre for the taking.

I am sick and tired of Ireland rating itself as a plucky country fighting above its weight. It has not changed in years - the 1-1 draw in Macedonia under McCarthy was identical - 0-1 in the first twenty minutes and tehn defend when we were going to finish top.

Seven years later and we are doing exactly the same thing. Nothing has changed. No progress had been made. And if no progress is made then it is again time for a change. I have heard he said that after the Israel game away, the attitude of the FAI changed to him - personally I would've sacked him there and then. Why wait for five games of exactly the same to do it?

The most annoying thing is the idea that we could've walked that group. We should've won in Switzerland and France and Israel. We could even have afforded to lose at home to France had we beaten Israel. The fact that France and Switzerland got the same results against Israel has nothing to do with us - except underlining how easy this group should have been.

At the crux of the issue about Kerr was that it was down to him and him alone to change it and walk us through the group that we led halfway with our toughest matches out of the way and he was not up to the task. Therefore adios.

I don't particularly remember any competitive match where we played as well as we could. Albania at home was pulling teeth. Albania away was a godsend of a draw. Israel at home and particularly away were to quote a phrase, a fumbling disgrace.

How anyone can seriously still claim that Kerr is good enough given the events of the qualifiers of the last two years is quite seriously beyond me.

He was not good enough, maybe his replacement won't be good enough, but I'd rather the chance of improvement rather than the staid monotony of underachievement.

We are far better than the last qualifiers showed. Time for someone else to show it to us.

[Slash/ED]

Don't be silly PS. I'm pointing out that Ireland usually played well when they didn't go in front.

Due to Kerrs conversatism.

Same as with friendlys, we did well for one simple reason. We took them seriously. The teams we played did not. Which frustrated me no end, rather than try new players he played them like competitive games then bemoaned lack of experience for certain players. Nothing irritated me more about Kerr than his attitude towards friendlys actually.

[geysir]

How is that?
You asked the question about games in which Ireland have performed well in, under Mick.
Belgium (away) at least was a better performance than loosing to the Swiss (away) ECQ.
Surely that statement does not need further explanation.
I think you (silently) agreed to adding Yugoslav (h) and Romania (a) to the list.

Was that not Kerr out on Landsdowne pitch with the lawnmower?

[finlma]

The documentary was tough to watch but I thought it was very well put together. I feel Kerr should have taken some of the blame for the poor performances - especially the Cyprus game and the last game against the Swiss.

Still, he's a nice guy and you'd have to feel a bit sorry for him.

[Tenderloins]

The program was hard to w3atch, especially as we knew the ending. Brian Kerr did not come out well from it. His voice even started to annoy me at the end.
Then this "No Regrets, other than the results..." ****e. No regrets other than the results? stupid thing to say.
Glad hes gone now, way too conservative a manager.

[oconghc2]

obvious kerr loved managing the country, seemed gutted, like all of us - didnt get it right though on too many occasions! i liked the bit about stephen elliot not being on form in training before the israel home game, therefore was not brought on!

Did he just happen to find his touch in the next day or 2 after that game so he was then considered for Faroes game!!

Disappointed that Kerr didnt really once take it on the chin! played the béal bocht a few too many times!

Anyway - time to move on - gonna be interesting if nothing else!!

[Dotsy]

So we know now what the problems were-

- the crap arrangments made by the previous regime for the first match in Switzerland (but it seems the arrangements for the away matches in Georgia and Albania were OK or at least didn't rate a comment)
- the players
- the FAI
- the media


At least Brian got everything right:rolleyes: . The most telling comment he made IMO was that we were only behind for 20 minutes in the whole campaign and somehow that was an indication of how close we came and how unfortunate we were. Fact is even if we had drawn against the French in LR ( and we never looked like beating them on the night) we still would not have qualified. We failed because of two poor performances against Israel for which Kerr has to take some of the blame.

His refusal to acknowledge that he made mistakes makes me so glad he is gone. With that kind of attitude we were never going to improve under him.

[pineapple stu]

On the McCarthy v Kerr thing....you can't quote McCarthy's stats without taking into account a top of his game Keane's contribution to some of them big games.(Croatia,Holland,Portugal). We always struggled without him in the team.
Shock horror as team doesn't perform as well without its star player! Do you want to look at Kerr's stats without Keane?!


and Ireland were terrible against Spain in the WC.
Nonsense. We were outplayed for the first 45 minutes or so and outplayed them for the last hour or so. It was a great performance both in terms of the quality of football played at times and the fact that we showed great resolve to come back from behind - a feature of McCarthy's tenure. When we went behind under Kerr - France at home and Switzerland away - we died and showed no inkling that we knew how to get back into the match.


Making Iceland out to be some world beaters is a bad joke!
Emmm...how did we do this? We beat them 4-2 away. OK, we slipped up at home, but this was a team who, in their next campaign, were challenging for qualification and were unlucky to lose in Paris (went 2-1 up in the second half there). We didn't make Iceland look to be world beaters. We may have made them look semi-decent, but then that's what they were.

[OwlsFan]

The documentary didn't really tell us anything. The only thing I learned was his excuse for playing 5 across the middle after we went 2-0 against Israel when Robbie had to be substituted. Elliott had been poor in training and therefore he wasn't going to play him. Strangely enough 4 days later he starts against the Faroes and is our best player. Must have improved greatly with the extra couple of days training :eek:

Kerr made a mistake not playing him and refused to admit it and gave a pretty poor excuse.

Yep, and the 2nd worst Irish performance (Basel 1) (Cyprus the worst) and probably the most gutless was due to the fact that they had to practice on a bumby pitch in Switzerland. Give us a break :confused:

[Green Army Girl]

I think Kerrs biggest mistake was to pay so much time to the media. He had a job to do but he would have been happier smiling at the camera.

[Reality Bites]

It was painful viewing and it told us what we all knew anyway, Kerr was a great man to organise a bus, hotel and a training ground, but he hadn't a clue when it came to tactics, the media, and motivation.. his excuses were lame and for the most part secondary ( his thinly disguised rub at the previous regimes poor logistics for our inept preformance away to switzerland in the European campaign was laughable) But the Journos especially Emmet Malone insights highlighted Kerr shortcomings succintly.. In the end he lost the players, media, the fans and the plot.

This documentary was about Failure and the need for change. It baffles me when people come on this board defending Kerr

[thejollyrodger]

Kerr made only a few mistakes but they were costly. At the end of the day he had to go. The program was well done last night. Kerr should have taken more of the blame though and admitted he made a few howlers (eg elliott).

I think we have all learnt a lot from the whole kerr thing. Things have defintely been sorted out a lot behind the scenes. Hopefully the next Eircom League manager to take over will have Champions League experience and wont be as naive.

[DubJohn]

The program seemed to make out that the rot started when John Delaney took over as president, five months after the France away match. This coincided with the match in Tel Aviv, and Kerr was intimating that there was a now sudden change in atmosphere at HQ, a lack of support which may have filtered to the team, staff and performances.

But the one match they left out of the program last night was the Faroe Islands in Lansdowne, which was soon after the Paris game. For me, it all started to go pear shaped in this game. We won 2-0 but it was an awful performance. Something seemed to go very wrong with the team that night.

Strange that they left out this one, I think it is significant to any analysis of what went wrong.

Documentarty was like watching a train crash. Some of the players should take a lot of the blame too, not just Kerr. I'd say one or two are sorry now, with the WC building up.

[Donegalcelt]

The thing that really peeves me about the whole Kavanagh for Robbie Keane sub at home to Israel was the fact that Kerr (as he said on the Late Late but not on the documentary) claimed that Stephen Elliott (as well as having a 'mare in training) had not enough experience internationally. How many times in friendly internationals did the visiting nations make numerous subs while we more or less stuck with the same eleven until very late in the game. All for the purpose of saying we beat Portugal or Romania or whatever. Results are important but not the most necessary thing about friendlies.The likes of Elliott and McGeady (against China) we given run outs in stoppage time. What's the point? Even though McGeady was out of the Celtic team in October when we played the Swiss and needed a goal, he would have offered something different, something unpredictable. I'm not saying that we should do a Sven and change the whole team and making life uneasy for all those who come on together trying to make an impression, but why not give them the odd start or dood run out. For example, the most pleasing thing about, say, the Croat game in Nov 04 was the performance of Elliott. This procedure should have been used more and hence have given us more options.

[eirebhoy]

The documentary didn't really tell us anything. The only thing I learned was his excuse for playing 5 across the middle after we went 2-0 against Israel when Robbie had to be substituted. Elliott had been poor in training and therefore he wasn't going to play him. Strangely enough 4 days later he starts against the Faroes and is our best player. Must have improved greatly with the extra couple of days training :eek:

We didn't play 5 across the middle, we played 4-4-2 when Keane went off. Elliott had started 1 game in the last 2 months for Sunderland, he had a virus and wasn't himself in training. Kerr mentioned this before, it didn't just come out with this documentary. He said that he was a different player before the Faroes game. Kerr probably takes too much from what he see's in training though. It was poor decision not to bring on Elliott for Keane.

That was the freakiest match I've seen in years though. We really should have won 5-0. Matt Holland fouls someone in the middle of the pitch, they take a hopeful freekick and they somehow manage to score from a header outside the box. Given miskicks the ball out, it comes to an Israeli player, O'Shea is caught tugging at Benayoun, penalty. Before Keane went off that bald left winger walked his way down the wing and into our box. He hit the ball into the box but they failed to score. That was their 3 chances in the match. We had about 33 feckin chances (it felt like it the way I was up and down off my seat). We deserved to win that match. Luck didn't go our way. Luck went our way against Holland in Lansdowne and that's what happens in sport.

We'll always look for someone to blame when something freaky like that happens. Nobody knows whether that substitution drew us the game. You have to remember that Giles said on the 29th minute (2 minutes after Keane went off) that Israel have got back into this game in the last 10 minutes. They were no more dominant in their period where they got the goals than they were between 19-29th minute. They will always get some bit of possession obviously. At the time I didn't even think Holland's tackle was a foul. I didn't really moan because nobody, nobody was expecting them to score from a set piece in the middle of the park and a header outside the box. I'm always going on about Given miskicking the ball on the roll, that and O'Shea cost us the 2nd goal.

[geysir]

i liked the bit about stephen elliot not being on form in training before the israel home game, therefore was not brought on!
Did you notice the cruel edit in the background, (while Brian was saying this) camera shots of Elliot having a stormer in training.
I could identify with Kerr as the man watching the game,
sounds just like myself without the machine gun expletives of course:)

[paul_oshea]

It was painful viewing and it told us what we all knew anyway, Kerr was a great man to organise a bus, hotel and a training ground, but he hadn't a clue when it came to tactics, the media, and motivation.. his excuses were lame and for the most part secondary ( his thinly disguised rub at the previous regimes poor logistics for our inept preformance away to switzerland in the European campaign was laughable) But the Journos especially Emmet Malone insights highlighted Kerr shortcomings succintly.. In the end he lost the players, media, the fans and the plot.

This documentary was about Failure and the need for change. It baffles me when people come on this board defending Kerr

reality bites, once again your name sums you up perfectly. agree wholeheartedly with this. its only certain ones though who do this, blinded by the same light as kerr ;)

[eirebhoy]

I'm blinded by his excellent CV. If he came in to this job with an average CV I'd probably be agreeing with everyone else here. You don't win what he did without knowing your stuff tactically.

[klein4]

Shock horror as team doesn't perform as well without its star player! Do you want to look at Kerr's stats without Keane?!
yes but dont go quoting statistics as proof of macarthys managerial ability when the fact that he had an at his peak keane having such an influence on those results.(he also had duff and denis irwin but didnt rate them enough to play them)he looked utterly clueless against russia away and swiss at home.a more accurate barometer of his managerial ability.

Nonsense. We were outplayed for the first 45 minutes or so and outplayed them for the last hour or so. It was a great performance both in terms of the quality of football played at times and the fact that we showed great resolve to come back from behind - a feature of McCarthy's tenure. When we went behind under Kerr - France at home and Switzerland away - we died and showed no inkling that we knew how to get back into the match..
outplayed? two dubious penalties (one of which we managed to miss)put us back in the game. we did do well in first part of extra time but then we had a man extra so you would expect us to get something from it..(which we didnt)


Emmm...how did we do this? We beat them 4-2 away. OK, we slipped up at home, but this was a team who, in their next campaign, were challenging for qualification and were unlucky to lose in Paris (went 2-1 up in the second half there). We didn't make Iceland look to be world beaters. We may have made them look semi-decent, but then that's what they were.
It was you who tried to imply earlier that Iceland werent actually a bad side.....they were. we made them look good by the manager sending a team out that didnt know what they were doing at home (never looked like scoring/best midfielder in premiership in central defence)or away(really struggled for that 4-2).
Fair enough if you didnt rate Kerr. Just dont use Macarthys tenure as a stick to beat him with as it is open to all the same criticisms that Kerrs stewardship was open to.

[Macy]

The program seemed to make out that the rot started when John Delaney took over as president, five months after the France away match. This coincided with the match in Tel Aviv, and Kerr was intimating that there was a now sudden change in atmosphere at HQ, a lack of support which may have filtered to the team, staff and performances.
Whatever about the effect on the team, Delaney never wanted Kerr and it always was common knowledge that he had voted against him when he was on the interview panel. Delaney wanted Robson. All the spinning against Kerr began when Delaney took over. Regardless of your views on Kerr as Ireland Manager - the spinning and "reporting" was a disgrace, and no one in their right mind would want this job while the same people are about.

[pineapple stu]

the crap arrangments made by the previous regime for the first match in Switzerland
Did you notice that, after whining about the hotel in Basel (which was no different to Jury's really), he then booked the same hotel for the next Basel game?


yes but don't go quoting statistics as proof of McCarthy's managerial ability when the fact that he had an at his peak Keane having such an influence on those results.
Compare Kerr and McCarthy then with and without Keane. You'll get the same results either way.


Outplayed? Two dubious penalties (one of which we managed to miss) put us back in the game. We did do well in first part of extra time but then we had a man extra so you would expect us to get something from it..(which we didnt)
Dubious penalties?! The first one maybe - but with Duffer running at pace and cutting in, any touch would easily floor him. If you think the second one - when Hierro tried to take Quinn's shirt off - was dubious, you are at best deluded.


It was you who tried to imply earlier that Iceland werent actually a bad side.....they were.
Explain then how this team - with players with Premiership experience and who drew with France, beat Russia, drew with the Ukraine away and were 2-1 up in Paris (lost 3-2 eventually; had they held on, they'd have been in the play-off at France's expense) in their next campaign - were a bad side. You can't use your ignorance to make points for you...

[OwlsFan]

We didn't play 5 across the middle, we played 4-4-2 when Keane went off. .

No we didn't. Duff wasn't pushed up front. He became a floater in midfield and away from his dangerous wing position behind the front man and ahead of the midfielders - perhaps 4-4-1-1 would be a better description.



Elliott had started 1 game in the last 2 months for Sunderland, he had a virus and wasn't himself in training. Kerr mentioned this before, it didn't just come out with this documentary. He said that he was a different player before the Faroes game. .

A flight to the Faroes and a couple of days training and hey presto, he's a new man! Kerr bottled it by refusing to bring on a striker for a striker and decided "what we have, we hold (don't)".


That was the freakiest match I've seen in years though. We really should have won 5-0..

Can't say we should have won 5-0 when they scored 2. The guy was allowed get a header on goal (sure on another day it might have gone wide but that's football) and it was a peno, albeit we should have got one for a similar challenge later. It shouldn't have come to that but for the mentality of the team and the changes.

[klein4]

Regardless of your views on Kerr as Ireland Manager - the spinning and "reporting" was a disgrace, and no one in their right mind would want this job while the same people are about.
Spot on.

[jbyrne]

and Ireland were terrible against spain in the WC. anyone who remembers differently must have had the beer goggles on

i'll argue that one with you. spain were 2nd favs for the whole competition when we played them and were full of players from the top leagues in the world. we easily matched them and only conceded one goal against them. apart from their two offside goal chances we created the better ones.... keane after 3 mins and again late in first half, duffer on a couple of occasions, and connolly in extra time are ones that immediately come to mind. we did enough to win that game. for the last 15mins of the 2nd half and the whole of extra time we were the only team trying to and capable of winning that game.... fact!!!

what is your definition of terrible?

[klein4]

Compare Kerr and McCarthy then with and without Keane. You'll get the same results either way....
as always you miss the point totally...


Dubious penalties?! The first one maybe - but with Duffer running at pace and cutting in, any touch would easily floor him. If you think the second one - when Hierro tried to take Quinn's shirt off - was dubious, you are at best deluded.....they were two penalties you would be lucky to get on another day.but if you see two penalties and two goals disallowed domination then fair enough.


Explain then how this team - with players with Premiership experience and who drew with France, beat Russia, drew with the Ukraine away and were 2-1 up in Paris (lost 3-2 eventually; had they held on, they'd have been in the play-off at France's expense) in their next campaign - were a bad side. You can't use your ignorance to make points for you...
what results did they get in the campaign we actually played them in? surely that would be of greater relevance? no??? I dont remember them being in contention at any stage.

[paul_oshea]

I'm blinded by his excellent CV.

ive got an excellent cv as well, it doesnt mean i have a clue about what im doing though!!! its only when someone gets the job you REALLY LEARN what they know and in kerrs case i think we all did. nuff said on this really.

[eirebhoy]

No we didn't. Duff wasn't pushed up front. He became a floater in midfield and away from his dangerous wing position behind the front man and ahead of the midfielders - perhaps 4-4-1-1 would be a better description.
Playing Robbie Keane can be described as a 4-4-1-1 aswell so. Duff played no deaper than Keane. It was the same formation when Keane went off. Duff moved up front (the position few of us like to see him play in but he did score and get MOTM in his previous 2 games for Ireland up front).


A flight to the Faroes and a couple of days training and hey presto, he's a new man! Kerr bottled it by refusing to bring on a striker for a striker and decided "what we have, we hold (don't)".
I agree, he bottled it. Whatever about it being the wrong decision, it was not a defensive decision. Kavanagh is a box to box midfielder who would have averaged about 10 goals a season before he was used more as the holding midfielder. He replaced Kilbane in the centre, Kilbane replaced Duff on the left, Duff replaced Keane up front. Too many changes, probably the wrong decision, but not a defensive substitution.


Can't say we should have won 5-0 when they scored 2. The guy was allowed get a header on goal (sure on another day it might have gone wide but that's football) and it was a peno, albeit we should have got one for a similar challenge later. It shouldn't have come to that but for the mentality of the team and the changes.
I said after that match it was the first time I could remember a player scoring a header from outside the box. A freak goal. What do they go and do? Score a similar goal against Switzerland. :) From the overrall play in that match we should have won 4 or 5 nil.

About Delaney and the media. I went up the Montclare hotel and read every word of the Sport section of the Irish Time before the Cyprus away match. The likes of Humphreys confirmed 3 or 4 times in that one newspaper that it was the FAI behind a lot of the media slating of Kerr. If anyone has a subscription to the Irish Times and can get the football articles from Saturday, 8th October maybe you could post them up. :)

[pineapple stu]

as always you miss the point totally...
Of course I do.:rolleyes: Kerr with Keane < McCarthy with Keane. Kerr without Keane < McCarthy without Keane. What's your point again?


Yhey were two penalties you would be lucky to get on another day.
They were not two penalties you would be lucky to get on another day. The second one was quite clearly a penalty. jbyrne has mentioned chances we got and they way the game turned as well - you're on your own if you don't believe that was a good performance.


what results did they get in the campaign we actually played them in? surely that would be of greater relevance? no??? I dont remember them being in contention at any stage.
They drew with Macedonia. They drew with Lithuania. They drew with us. We dropped all of two points to them. It was one poor performance against a team who, I will still maintain, were not bad but were semi-decent. Which has been my view of them the whole time.

If this were a boxing match, I think the fight would have been stopped ages ago. Even eirebhoy's coming around. I'm getting dizzy from going around in circles, so I'm going to (try to) step out of this thread and add your good self to my ignore list...

[Dotsy]

I don't think you will find too many on this board that have much time for the FAI so bringing up their decision to give McCarty a third term doesn't really have any relevance when discussing Kerr. Likewise McCarty's record compared to Kerrs is irrelevent IMO. Either you think Kerr wasn't good enough and it was time to change or you think he would have improved given more time so should have been given another contract.

Personally I don't think he showed any sign of learning from the mistakes made earlier this year, a fact reinforced by his refusal last night to take any blame whatsoever for not qualifying from a **** poor group.

[OwlsFan]

The difference between McCarthy and Kerr was that McCarthy seemed to be making progress (until the last two games) as he went along while Kerr seemed to be going backwards.

[NeilMcD]

Heat on for Irish and Kerr
Tom Humphries In Limassol




Football re-asserts itself in Nicosia at teatime this evening. For that we can all give much thanks. It has been a long and bitter week and although the Irish hover right now somewhere between disaster and success, the tendency has been to accentuate the negative.

It is four years since Ireland last played here. That was another difficult week. Mick McCarthy's father Charlie passed away on the eve of the game while on the field of play Cyprus offered up a resistance which wasn't in evidence in the final scoreline of 4-0 to the visitors.

That night it took an astonishing performance from Roy Keane to haul the Republic of Ireland through the game. He scored two goals but more significantly inflicted his will and desire on everything and everybody. Jason McAteer came off the field in Nicosia that night quite shaken from the constant haranguing. The job got done, though.

It should get done tonight also but there is an awareness that by comparison this is a callow team which Brian Kerr brings to Nicosia. Keane is unavailable. Gary Kelly, Gary Breen and Jason McAteer are missing for one reason or another. With them goes a large amount of the passionate leadership from which that team drew.

Kerr conceded yesterday that his side hadn't perhaps performed to the height of his own expectations in this campaign. Previous disappointments have turned up the heat here in Cyprus.

"It certainly hasn't been for the want of effort or graft or commitment to the cause," he observed. "We haven't had the results that either they or I would have liked. We've had a few unlucky breaks here and there, we haven't had that slice of luck but I wouldn't be in any way critical. They've given their best. It was a fine line against France the only game we have lost. I'm disappointed we haven't got more points, but if we get enough at the end I'll be happy."

Kerr's words reflect the fact that as his first full campaign as Irish manager draws to an end there are two ways of judging his tenure thus far. With a declining and sometimes unavailable Roy Keane and with a largely unexceptional and notably leaderless bunch of players he has played it safe and kept Ireland in contention till the death.

That's not a very sexy argument to take to the barricades and even those of us who would promote that viewpoint must concede that there indeed have been some bad days at the office for Kerr and some disappointingly pallid performances from his team.

One can add that we in the media work with the significant benefit of hindsight, that at the moment of Robbie Keane's departure (having scored once but having been deserving of a hat-trick) from the Israel game at Lansdowne Road none of us stood up and shouted for Stephen Elliott to come on, none of us could have legislated for John O'Shea wrapping himself around a forward, a Greek referee giving a dubious penalty and then Avi Nimni poking it home.

Then there is the other point of view which believes that Kerr's Irish side haven't beaten a top-80 side in a competitive game in the three years of his reign, that we have dropped points needlessly from positions of strength and that the media palaver and fuss of the past week has been counterproductive and self-damaging.

That all becomes irrelevant this evening. Anything less than a win here ends the discussion about Brian Kerr's future as Ireland manager. Anything less than a win ends any moral claim Ireland have to a World Cup finals place. And yet when the final whistle goes if that win is secured it immediately becomes quite irrelevant too. There are no garlands on offer for beating a Cyprus team whose only four points in the campaign so far have come at the expense of the Faroe Islands.

Ireland will evacuate Cyprus immediately after the game and head home to begin concentrating on Wednesday's tie with Switzerland who are playing France tonight.

The French are also in action on Wednesday when they entertain Cyprus in Paris, a relatively easy conclusion to their schedule and one which is expected to provide them with an automatic pass to next year's finals.

The Ireland squad altered their schedule yesterday, opting not to train in the morning heat and travelling instead to Nicosia last night to train at the GSP Stadium at match time.

Kerr was giving away very little about the make-up of his side but hinted strongly that Graham Kavanagh of Premiership newcomers Wigan Athletic would play in the centre of midfield.

Of those players carrying knocks the news was mostly good. Steven Reid is expected to be match-fit.

Damien Duff has a cut on his foot with stitches in it but he has trained fully every day. Stephen Carr retains a little soreness around his wounded knee but again he is likely to be fit to take the field.

So to the bottom line. If Ireland win tonight and win again on Wednesday night they will go into a play-off for the World Cup finals. Beyond that the permutations are many and ever more forlorn. The game and the nature of the week which has preceded it makes it about more than qualification, however. It is about how Brian Kerr, the only Irish soccer manager to have ever won anything of significance, will be remembered.

The minimum price of those four missing points from the games against Israel is that there will be debate and pressure. It all began this week. It was unedifying but unsurprising. Only six points and a play-off will end it.

[NeilMcD]

FAI's silence has damaged Kerr more than trigger-happy media




Tom Humphries feels Brian Kerr has not played tactically cute in his hard-ball game with the FAI

Remember Jack Charlton? Big, blunt Geordie whose tactical sophistication ran no further than giving it a lash? Wouldn't have known a spin doctor from a witch doctor? Well, scorn not his simplicity. Charlton understood two very basic things about the media.

First. Managers get paid not to take media too seriously or too personally.

Second. Editors abhor a vacuum. When you give 60-second press conferences, when you send in fringe players to speak to the media, you create a vacuum. It gets filled with speculation and opinion and conjecture. If there's one thing soccer people hate, it's media opinion.

And in the Irish papers this week there has been much media opinion. Six points left to play for and everyone was reaching conclusions. The evidence is still not fully submitted but the jury was issuing verdicts.

Times have changed since Jack strode among us, but the truths are eternal. The media is easy to satisfy. The media is not like Oliver, constantly wanting more. The media asks for sufficient.

If 60 or 70 media people gather in a room on the week of a World Cup game for a press conference, they expect to be speaking to somebody who will actually play in the game.

This week, the media, who have paid through the nose to come to Cyprus, were allowed to speak to Paddy Kenny, Keith Doyle, Liam Miller, Andy O'Brien and Gary Doherty. The Expendables, insufficient to the point of being an insult.

If the media goes to a training session in the expectation of being given a five-minute, pitch-side briefing, as per the official media guide, they expect the briefing to happen. On Tuesday it didn't happen at all. On Wednesday it lasted just over 60 seconds. Again, insufficient.

So, in the most important week for Irish soccer since the last World Cup, the media and the Irish squad were engaged in a phoney war which need not have happened. It has been distracting, dispiriting and disappointing.

Why did it happen? Why has media professionalism in the FAI never advanced beyond the old McCarthyite view of the media either being "in the tent ****ing out or outside the tent ****ing in". Why? Because nobody wants it to change.

The FAI this week were letting the media do the dirty work, as usual. You would think that after Saipan, after Genesis, after the messy end to the McCarthy era that lessons would be learned? They have.

When it comes to ditching a manager, it takes the pressure off if you let the media soften him up a bit first.

Brian Kerr's team play football tonight. The kick-off in Nicosia will put an end to one of the more bizarre weeks in the already quite bizarre recent history of the Irish soccer team.

Playing football will be a welcome return to business as usual, but Kerr will feel the bruises on his body and the burns on his neck. He was left dangling from a tree this week and he was beaten with sticks like a pinata.

After the week he has had it is important to remember that, whatever happens on the pitch over the next few days, and whatever goes down in the bloodstained boardrooms of the FAI over the next few weeks, Brian Kerr will remain potentially a great Irish manager. Whether he gets the chance to realise that potential depends largely on the convergence of several sets of circumstances.

Lie down. Imagine you are Brian Kerr. Go back in time a little way. Picture yourself approaching the final three games of a tense World Cup qualifying group. France. Cyprus. Switzerland.

Could you please list in order of horror which of the following you would need like a hole in the head. Best player and leader suspended and injured? Only decent striker pictured on the razz at 4am? Other half-decent striker suspended? Half of your team not getting regular football? Employers leaving you dangling over the issue of a new contract? War with the media?

On Wednesday evening at Larnaca Airport a member of the Kerr backroom team could be found musing aloud as he stood near the baggage carousel. "Am I mad?" he said, "or are we six points away from a World Cup play-off? Do we have an away game against Cyprus and a home game against Switzerland to make the play-offs? Is it just me that thinks that?"

He had a point, but if the message has got lost this week, a time which demanded the relentless accentuation of the positive, then it is not, for once, the media who are entirely to blame.

Brian Kerr, the FAI and the players handled things badly, and the entire tone of the week has been negative and defensive. From Le Meridien Hotel in Limassol there issues the scent of fear and loathing. The odd thing is that, if it all goes wrong this week, only Kerr will be paying the price.

Perhaps it will all come good. If next Thursday morning transpires, though, to

be a time for reflection and regret, it

would be best to divide all the circumstances which got us there into those which could have been avoided and those which couldn't have been.

It's important to remember that there are things which Brian Kerr can do nothing about.

He can do nothing about who gets to play in English Premiership teams. The paucity of our resources, though, was never better highlighted than during the ludicrous fuss which followed young Stephen Ireland having a good debut for Manchester City last week.

If a 19-year-old who seems already to have a record of placing petulance above patriotism (Ireland has apparently announced he will never play for Kerr) is hailed as a solution, well, then the problem is more crippling than we thought.

Brian Kerr can do nothing about the past. We have somehow arrived at a state of mind where we assume we have the right to be at every major soccer tournament. We don't have the right and we don't have the players.

Brian Kerr can do nothing about the psychological make-up of his players. He has some technically gifted footballers at his disposal. He has few leaders. He has few big men. He doesn't have anybody who will grab a game by the scruff of the neck and win it on his own.

That's the hand Brian Kerr has been dealt. Fintan Drury alluded to as much on the radio this week. Kerr was quick to point out that Drury wasn't speaking on his behalf at the time, but what Drury said wasn't nearly as big a deal as the space it occupied suggested.

Obviously, the wisdom of the manager's agent commenting on team affairs is moot, but taken as a contribution to the debate the point itself bears argument.

None of these guys are leaders. None of them are of the quality which persuades one that collectively they should grace any tournament of world-class players. We get to tournaments by punching above our weight.

To the list of things about which Brian Kerr can do nothing (at this stage) could be added Roy Keane's absence, the structure of his contractual arrangements with the FAI and the re-emergence of a clatter of world-class French players. He could add to his list of untimely misfortunes the recent regime change at the Irish Independent, which has seen a notable stiffening of the line on his stewardship.

[NeilMcD]

Will all this be taken into account by Kerr's employers, or are they already rushing girlishly after some big man in a suit and looking to ditch Kerr regardless? How did the Irish manager come to be engaging in the sideshow of a major media bunfight in the most important working week of his life? How did he get to Cyprus with a World Cup play-off spot beckoning (the very route by which Mick McCarthy's long reign was redeemed) and find the clouds gathering over him, the mood sour and the Cypriots chuckling to themselves?

As Brian Kerr bumbled through his media engagements this week, the spotlight on him served only to emphasise the isolation he must feel.

Those who know Brian Kerr will say the job hasn't changed him much, that behind the tight public face he is still essentially the same likeable, genial character who took the job three years ago and was welcomed into the Shelbourne Hotel for his firstpress conference with garlands and palm leaves.

Those who know him lament, though, that he can't bring himself to perform for the media as if nothing has happened to alter that happy relationship. It's not, they say, that Kerr didn't expect criticism and pressure when he took the job, he just didn't realise it would hurt so much.

Kerr suffers a disadvantage not felt by an Irish manager since Eoin Hand's days: he lives in Dublin. He can pretend to ignore what is said and what is written, but it is all around him. He lives in and breathes the same atmosphere.

Much of what is written is penned by people he knows personally and has known for a long time. Kerr can't bring himself to pretend he doesn't notice.

Early in his reign, the first hint that his media hand would be less steady than other aspects of his talents came when he steadfastly refused to meet the group of English journalists who cover the Irish team for a get-to-know-you lunch.

His argument that they hadn't wanted to get to know him before he became Irish manager was dubious, at best, but if he decided to tread gingerly with the English media it was the home-based contingent he was failing to cater for.

Part of Kerr's problem this week lay in his inability to fake it. There was a smarter way to handle matters, but it ran against his grain. Also, he may have miscalculated.

Take the issue of the contract. There are some of us who believe no Irish manager should be allowed to go into two crucial World Cup games with the smell of death on him. It didn't happen to Mick McCarthy. It didn't happen to Jack Charlton.

It has happened to Brian Kerr. The manager didn't help his situation, however, by directly answering a question on the business last week.

His words, to the effect that he was trying to find out what was going on about his contract but nobody was telling him, were oddly chosen, but, one assumes, deliberately chosen. Yesterday, in Limassol, he defended his right to give an honest answer to the question, but as a manager he is sufficiently astute at deflecting questions to have known he could have batted this one off the agenda.

In the power-play between himself and the FAI, Kerr will have realised that shedding a little light on his employers hard-ball tactics will have upped the ante a little. The FAI, however, have remained inscrutable and left the media vacuum to be filled willy nilly. The issue blew up in the media and did collateral damage to Kerr.

The media response this week seems just a little pre-emptive and trigger-happy, but there has been a sense these last few days that the criticism has almost been licensed by the FAI's indifference to media matters and their willingness to let the Irish manager squirm without issuing the sort of statement of strong support which previous managers drew comfort from.

Kerr is an emotional man too. If he doesn't like you, it's not in his make-up to pretend that he does. If he is uncomfortable with questions, you don't have to examine his words to find how uncomfortable.

His face tightens, his neck stiffens and he rolls his head like a boxer before answering.

Nobody questions that he has had some bad luck, that he is professional and meticulous and has an honourable view of how Ireland should or could play football. But his inability to simulate emotions is his Achilles' heel, and his opponents and detractors within the FAI, men with lean and hungry looks, are easily smart enough to sit back and see him hoist upon his own petard.

Kerr's expression of bewilderment about his contract will have garnered some sympathy from a public which holds lots of residual goodwill towards him since his days as a youth team miracle worker.

How the contract comments played to the Irish players is another thing. Yesterday, in Limassol, his captain Kenny Cunningham was circumspect when offered the chance to step in and slug for his boss. He spoke of respect for the manager, but of players being essentially selfish beings. Watery stuff.

With Kerr's blood turning that water orange and then red, a media feeding frenzy has ensued. Not shark-like bites. Piranha-size nibbles.

Unfair? Probably.

Premature? Certainly.

Avoidable? Definitely.

If Brian Kerr pulls six points out of the bag in the next few days the entire view of his tenure will be up for review. When a team qualifies for a major competition the means to that end is forgotten about. If the team make a play-off, he will be judged almost exclusively on how the play-off unfolds.

In the interim, everyone, including the media and the FAI, is entitled to give their own answer when asked what they think of the show so far.

The FAI, however, owe a little more to their international manager and a man who has provided them with so much over the last decade. This week he was left unprotected.

The silence concerning his contact position was deafening. That the FAI see the role of public relations as being to indulge the petulance of the international team by protecting them from exposure to the scurvy media became clearer than ever this week. With nothing to write about and a very large bill to be paid for the privilege of coming to write, the house fell down on Kerr.

The odd thing is that in aping the media tactics of the English FA (who are otherwise without competition when it comes to the winning awards for most disastrous media relations), the FAI have gone further and refined the technique of withholding into one of calculated insult.

While Irish hacks were wondering what to do with five or six minutes of banal Paddy Kenny quotes this week, they were watching Sky News and seeing their colleagues with the England team speaking with Steven Gerrard, Jamie Carragher, Peter Crouch, Frank Lampard, Darren Bent and others.

To put that into context, this was an English team coming off a defeat to Northern Ireland, players who have been through the full tabloid mill and an English manager whose every peccadillo and venality has been blown up and magnified for the edification of the English audience. And there they were going about their business like professionals.

Deep down, Brian Kerr appreciates that two views of his tenure are possible. He concedes not everything has been peachy. If he didn't, he wouldn't be as smart a man as we gave him credit for.

His opponents and detractors within the FAI are easily as smart as we give them credit for, though, and must look on with thin smiles as Kerr immolates himself in front of the media.

Every instinct of Kerr's being must tell him that it would be smarter to play the game . . . And yet, in Le Meridien Hotel (where a cordon sanitaire has been erected and only paying guests are allowed past the front door this week) the view was indulged that it was unhelpful and unpatriotic for all these arguments to be rehearsed this week.

Nobody from the FAI did anything to fill the void, though. Instead, there were new and frankly ludicrous restrictions on TV crews and photographers at team training. There were no player quotes. No co-operation other than what was mandatory. The pressure on Kerr got ratcheted up subtly.

The harsh fact is that with players hiding or sulking, with Brian Kerr having put the issue on the table himself and with space to fill, practically all coverage this week was going to, at best, have the feel of an end-of-term report.

Every criticism gathered like a storm cloud over the manager's head. If you were holding Brian Kerr's new contract in a drawer in your desk, perhaps you'd smile too.

Kerr's isolation this week was awful and agonising to watch. He made mistakes and he paid the full price. That's been the way right through this campaign on and off the field. Somebody said to him yesterday that he used to have the reputation of being a lucky manager - did he still feel lucky?

He smiled tightly. Sometimes you have bad luck.

Sometimes you have bosses who play the game well.

[klein4]

I'm getting dizzy from going around in circles, so I'm going to (try to) step out of this thread and add your good self to my ignore list...
make sure you take your ball with you as well ya poor thing.........

[Bald Student]

Regardless of your views on Kerr as Ireland Manager - the spinning and "reporting" was a disgrace, and no one in their right mind would want this job while the same people are about.I agree 100%. If the situation was handled with a bit more decorum Kerr could have taken up another role in irish football which he would obviously be good at. There's no chance now that that'll happen. The FAI's actions were very focused on the short term.

I still don't accept that Kerr did anything particularly wrong. I don't accept the argument that Elliot should have come on against Israel in Lansdown. If he had a cold he had a cold, end of story. We might have liked things to be different but they weren't.

It's obvious though that the team wasn't playing well, I sometimes still have nightmares about that game in Cyprus. It seemed obvious to me that a change was needed and the only thing that can be changed in an international team is the manager.

[TheJamaicanP.M.]

After going through this thread, I can see that only a few people are actually making sense here. Pineapple stu is spot on with everything he says. Klein4 is talking his usual nonsense, while eirebhoy (who in fairness is the most educated Ireland fan on this forum) is making all types of excuses for Kerr.

I didn't even read Tom Humphreys' ****. I think he's just a fat man who was never good enough to play sport and certainly can't write about it. He's a **** journalist, who has been put on a pedistol, mainly because Roy Keane (a man with **** all formal education) rates him. It's ironic because Humphreys has been spinning stories as long as I can remember. He's more of a GAA man anyway. There are only a handful of journalists who can write accurately on national team, and I would place Paul Howard at the top of that list.

Klein4, would you like a copy of the video of the Spain game from 2002? I think you must have drank too much cider that day, or else I saw a different match. We were the better team. If their goals were disallowed, they were disallowed for a reason. Also, we got penalties that we were entitled to. That's all part of the game. We've often had important penalties given against us (Turkey and Israel being examples). Spain were the better team in the first half. Ireland tended to start all the matches nervously and improve as the match went on. After the game, RTE news interviewed a number of Spanish fans who were delighted with the result. However, the general consensus was that they thought Ireland were the better team. Even after the game, people were saying that this young Irish team could go on and make a big impact at Euro 2004. That game against Spain actually left somewhat of a feel-good factor about what the team had achieved. Those who say that we didn't play well in that game either don't remember it or are McCarthy-bashing.

I'm not saying that the McCarthy era was perfect. The man made a number of mistakes, such as Keane in defence and 3 at the back. However, McCarthy always accepted when he was wrong. Kerr has proved to be too arrogant to do that. At least the team progressed during the McCarthy era. I've only been alive to witness the managerial tenures of the last 3 managers, but I definitely enjoyed Mick's style of football the most. Remember how we had 60% possession against the Germans in 2002 as we took the game to them. There was something very honest about Mick and his team, a level of decency that wasn't present with Brian Kerr. Mick made sure his team played with commitment and passion. We might have seen some crap performances against the likes of Iceland and Macedonia, but the team certainly didn't put in gutless performances like we saw against Switzerland and Cyprus.

I don't know how eirebhoy can tell me that the home game to France was perfect apart from the goal we conceded. We barely created a chance in the game. Considering we were at home, we were very negative. It was a cautious approach from a manager who simply wanted a draw. We might have been lucky against Holland four years earlier but at least we created plenty of chances to score a goal. Against France, we played for a draw when it was inevitable that a team with players like Henry would create a chance out of nothing.

Kerr is placing blame on everyone but himself. I don't want to hear his hard-luck stories. Sometimes Irish fans find it easier to place the blame on the FAI. I think that's the typical approach of an English club fan (i.e. "sack the board"). I can't see how the FAI cost us qualification. They're an easy target sometimes. The buck stops with Kerr. He was the one who chose to replace Robbie Keane with Graham Kavahangh, he was the one who played John O'Shea in central-midfield for the biggest game of his career, and it was Kerr who finished the must-win game against Switzerland with six defenders on the pitch. Kerr blew it and was rightly disposed of. Shame on RTE for even giving him a platform to talk nonsense. Does he think the Irish fans are stupid?

Kerr is a good manager at Eircom League level, he is an excellent underage coach, and would be a good person to run a national underage academy. However, at senior international level he was chancing his arm. The highlights of his tenure were the away games to Holland and France, as well as all those wonderful 1-0 victories in the friendlies. Lets close the chapter on a disappointing period for Irish football.

[pineapple stu]

Pineapple stu is spot on with everything he says. Klein4 is talking his usual nonsense, while eirebhoy (who in fairness is the most educated Ireland fan on this forum) is making all types of excuses for Kerr.
Nice to know I'm not going mad anyway!:p Though I must disagree with you on your "shame on RTÉ" bit. I thought the show was actually very balanced with plenty of negative comments from commentators, journalists and panellists to balance Kerr's arguments.

[geysir]

About Delaney and the media. I went up the Montclare hotel and read every word of the Sport section of the Irish Time before the Cyprus away match. The likes of Humphreys confirmed 3 or 4 times in that one newspaper that it was the FAI behind a lot of the media slating of Kerr.
There is nothing remotely written in those articles which add substance to the conspiracy theory that it was the FAI behind the media attacks. They stood idly by. In fact Humphreys explains that Kerr could have easily have cooperated with the media and affected the slant. Kerr implied that there was a conspiracy from within the FAI in the documentary. Kerr should have had his eyes focussed on the Swiss and Cyprus conspiracy to beat us on the pitch.
Kerr could have accepted the situation that it was 2 wins or the chop. Why did he start moaning about the FAI and contract issue on the eve of our 2 most important games? 2 victories and his new contract was in the bag, did he not have the belief that we would win?
He was very very lucky that his managerial stint did not end there and then in Cyprus.
I think Eirebhoy is doing a much better job than Kerr did to defend his own record.

[eirebhoy]

Remember how we had 60% possession against the Germans in 2002 as we took the game to them.
This is a point I made earlier. If Kerr was in charge in that match we would have taken them game to Germany too. Pyschologically, there's nothing left to lose when you're losing so you go at them. At the same time, the Germans had to protect their lead and had everything to lose. I'm probably making excuses but I do believe all the excuses I'm making are true.


There is nothing remotely written in those articles which add substance to the conspiracy theory that it was the FAI behind the media attacks.
At the time I did have a few drinks but it was one of the articles not written by Humphries that had the main point. Maybe I'm wrong. I'm not lying though. I know plenty of people here are registered with Ireland.com. I seen Neil had posted the articles. I opened the reply box in a new tab and pasted one piece. I then moved down the article and realised I was wrong and hoped nobody would notice. :) I said "the likes" of Humphries. He wasn't the only one that wrote articles that day so I hope there's something else there. :)

One thing I'm not wrong on is that McCarthy was not much better than Kerr if he was at all in his first 2 campaigns. That's all I'm posting about. The OTT critisism he's getting. Would you believe I dread opening this thread? I was going to just ignore it this morning. :) Its only my opinion. Its a stubborn opinion to have but I don't feel I've been proved wrong yet. People may go on about his interviews but Mourinho talks some **** in his interviews, he's still a great manager. Point out all the things that was wrong with Kerr and you could make a similar point about McCarthy from his first 2 campaigns.

[Only2keanos]

and Ireland were terrible against spain in the WC. anyone who remembers differently must have had the beer goggles on.


Are you out of your ****ing mind? That was a good spanish side - who later against Korea got disgracefully robbed of a place in the semi finals - and they were hanging on for dear life at the end for penalties. If that had been a boxing match, ok we may have been behind on points at half time but it would never have lasted 120 minutes because we destroyed them for the rest of the game. I happened to have been at that game and was 100% sober and I dont know what you were watching. The most painful thing about that defeat was the knowledge that our performance was easily good enough for us to beat Korea (bribary of officials aside of course) and the Germans.

I am not even going to get into the whole Kerr/McCarthy/FAI debate right now, as I could end up writing all night, but I could not let you get away with a ridiculous comment like that.

After that game, I believe the feelings of the whole Spanish nation were that we totally outplayed them and deserved to win. Duffs performance in that game was described by FIFA.COM as one, the likes of which had been rarely seen before at a world cup.

The following article from the FIFA archive might remind you of what actually happened that night, just make sure you take the beer goggles off before reading it though:

http://2002.fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/02/en/020616/2/13iy.html

[klein4]

No I remember the match well and remember at no stage during the first 90 minutes did I think ireland were doing anything other than the usual huffing and puffing to no avail. the usual moral victory.thats not macarthy bashing.and I deffo wasnt drunk watching it. I try and avoid the pub for matches so I dont have to listen to much the same ****e that passes for informed comment round here. I'd have no problem with any criticism of Kerrs time in charge if it wasnt backed up by comparing him to a crap manger with one of the worst records in football league history if I am not mistaken...People are being very selective in their use of facts and statistics.
"Originally Posted by TheJamaicanP.M.
Remember how we had 60% possession against the Germans in 2002 as we took the game to them." this is one of the funniest things I have ever read. try watching the games instead of the stats...ah I remember it like it was yesterday son..

"the following article from the FIFA archive might remind you of what actually happened that night, just make sure you take the beer goggles off before reading it though:
http://2002.fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/0...16/2/13iy.html" FIFA website?????? well you are going to get a totally balanced view there!!!!! which PR company wote that for them?? I dont have to google something I saw with my own eyes.

"I didn't even read Tom Humphreys' ****. I think he's just a fat man who was never good enough to play sport and certainly can't write about it."

the irony of you criticising a quality journalist then going on to give the most airy fairy twaddle of an analysis of macarthys reign is just too perfect for words.

"Originally Posted by TheJamaicanP.M.
Pineapple stu is spot on with everything he says. Klein4 is talking his usual nonsense, while eirebhoy (who in fairness is the most educated Ireland fan on this forum) is making all types of excuses for Kerr"
Its not nonsense to ask anyone coming on here to slate brian kerr to apply the same rigid criticisms of the previous manager. there are other points of view out there other than the british tabloid inspired ****e you and your ilk peddle as fact.


:)

[TheJamaicanP.M.]

Klein4, you're entitled to your opinion but we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I think we actually played well against Spain and the fact that we had 60% possession against the Germans indicates how we took the game to them. You might accuse some of us of being selective of our facts, but I think you're certainly being selective in your argument. It would appear that anything which McCarthy achieved is being attributed to "luck".
As for Tom Humphreys, I'll stand by what I said. His knowledge of the game is relatively poor and his hunger for publicity makes him only marginally better than thugs like Roy Curtis and Paul Hyland.

[klein4]

"thugs like Roy Curtis and Paul Hyland."
well at least there is something we agree on.....

[geysir]

OTT critisism he's getting. Would you believe I dread opening this thread? I was going to just ignore it this morning. :) Its only my opinion. Its a stubborn opinion to have but I don't feel I've been proved wrong yet.
You have argued the case for Kerr very well and given us much for thought even for those like me who are 100% convinced. Its only opinions. It's a hard case to prove because Kerr did not get his chance for a third campaign. Time will tell us something when we get a new manager and we see how far he gets.

[Donegalcelt]

[QUOTE=eirebhoy]This is a point I made earlier. If Kerr was in charge in that match we would have taken them game to Germany too. Pyschologically, there's nothing left to lose when you're losing so you go at them.

Good point but cannot agree with this. Kerr's Ireland were trailing 1-0 to France and drawing 0-0 with the Swiss in a must win game and at no stage as the game wore on did we take the game to him. There was nothng to lose but still no reaction.

[eirebhoy]

Good point but cannot agree with this. Kerr's Ireland were trailing 1-0 to France and drawing 0-0 with the Swiss in a must win game and at no stage as the game wore on did we take the game to him. There was nothng to lose but still no reaction.
Aye I suppose.

[Donegalcelt]

It was all so bloody predictable. The French boss said before the September game that he knew what expect from us and he was right. Throw on Doherty and hoof it at him in the closing minutes. I'm not glorifying McCarthy by any matter of means on his switches (Connolly v Spain and Babb in Moscow to name but two laterally :confused: ) But in fairness to Mick, he was ever afraid to change the shape by for example, taking on Quinn for a fullback like Harte. Aside that the team still mixed things by playing penetrative possession football on the ground and used Quinn (obviously a much superior header of the ball than Doherty) sparingly and thus making us difficult to defend against. Kerr was too chicken to even make a slight alteration against the Swiss. The away fans were laughing into their cow bells when an ireland team already minus roy keane and duff took off robbie keane and morrisson. We even joked in a sadish manner late in that game that Kerr may as well have taken Paddy Kenny on for Given in unison with his own attacking ambitions