More British-born players anyone?(2G discussion

[as_i_say]

Don't know if anyone else spotted this but the starting line up against cyprus contained 10 players who were born in the Republic, Kilbane being the only British born player.

I've been an advid watcher of where players are born and I'm pretty sure (without checking on the net) that this is the first time in my generation, starting from the Charlton era, that we've had a starting team containing 10 Irish.

McCarthys teams always averaged more Irish than Brits but this is a first for me in all my years watching the Irish team so I was a little chuffed. Still if thats what a virtually all Irish team can do, lets bring on your Trundles and Zat Knights*:)


*not

[stickyjoe]

no thanks give me kavanagh instead of kevin nolan any day

[Dodge]

And I don't think even the most anti Plastic fans (i.e. me...) can have a problem with Kilbane's Irishness

[geysir]

I'm pretty sure (without checking on the net) that this is the first time in my generation, starting from the Charlton era, that we've had a starting team containing 10 Irish.
McCarthys teams always averaged more Irish than Brits but this is a first for me in all my years watching the Irish team so I was a little chuffed. Still if thats what a virtually all Irish team can do, lets bring on your Trundles and Zat Knights*:) *not
You should have checked the net :) for what it is worth we had 11 irish born players in the starting line up against Portugal under McCarthy.

[thejollyrodger]

i dont really care where they are from. its their ability that is the most important thing

[tetsujin1979]

You should have checked the net :) for what it is worth we had 11 irish born players in the starting line up against Portugal under McCarthy.
You should have checked the net, Kilbane started in Portugal and both McAteer and Kilbane started in Dublin
Portugal - Ireland: http://www.soccerbase.com/results3.sd?gameid=419791
Ireland - Portugal: http://www.soccerbase.com/results3.sd?gameid=419783

For what it's worth, according to the Independent at the weekend, the France game was the first time in 30 years Ireland finished with all Irish-born players on the pitch after Harte and Doherty came on for Kilbane and Morrison

[as_i_say]

agreed about kilbane-he is as irish i think as dave o leary or paul mcgrath-im not one of these people that thinks its necessarilybad having brits in the team-if they really wanna play for us and believe they are irish fair o nuff.

if they're sh ite though they can fu ck off!:)

if you think back to usa 1994 when we qualified and england didnt-we got some abuse from english media about irish born players-there was 7 in a squad of 22.

and that included ronnie whelan and kevin moran

Yeah the 1-1 at home to portugal had 10 irish born-the away game had breen from the start -english.

[geysir]

You should have checked the net, Kilbane started in Portugal and both McAteer and Kilbane started in Dublin
We both should have checked more carefully :) kilbane started in Dublin, mc ateer was a sub.

[Junior]

Yeah the 1-1 at home to portugal had 10 irish born-the away game had breen from the start -english.

Seriously you don't know how much this grates with us plastics - kop yerself on.

[as_i_say]

this is just a statement of fact , im not too bothered either way,but it is better to see home grown talent coming through as opposed to charltons days-3 or 4 irish born in a starting line up is poor, dont go deserting us Junior, we'll always have a place for you plastics on the team.

"my mother is from carlow about 20 miles south of dublin"-Phil Babb. Quality.

[as_i_say]

ok i should have said english born about Breen. Dads a kerryman i believe

[Junior]

this is just a statement of fact , im not too bothered either way,but it is better to see home grown talent coming through as opposed to charltons days-3 or 4 irish born in a starting line up is poor, dont go deserting us Junior, we'll always have a place for you plastics on the team.

no fear of me deserting. I see it as part of the territory to listen to eejits whilst following Ireland who will never understand the diaspora.

Guys who think 11 Irish born players in the national side is somehow superior to a side that includes 2g etc...

[shakermaker1982]

if your born in England but your whole family (both sides including mum, dads grandads, aunts, uncles etc etc) are born in Ireland and you also have an Irish passport...then does that make you Irish?

[Junior]

only if you have a childhood photo of yoy wearing a leprechaun outfit.

[shakermaker1982]

you need the photo??!! Come on Clinton dig those pics out :)

[as_i_say]

Guys who think 11 Irish born players in the national side is somehow superior to a side that includes 2g etc...[/QUOTE]

When did I say that having 11 Irish born players amounted to a superior team? I didnt. Go kiss the blarney stone. Begorra.

[pete]

I don't care where someone is born ir raised but players such as Morrison & maybe Holland have dubious credentials.

[kingp35]

Lets not forget the true Irish man that was Tony Cascarino :D

[Saint Tom]

matt holland sang "god save the queen" duriong a playoff final.. FACT

he should have never been allowed put on a green shirt again

[davey]

As a 2g myself, I can only echo Juniors comments on this. Talk of "Brits" is like a red rag to a bull for myself. I think though that 99 % of people on this board do recognise the legitmate Irishness of say Breen and Kilbane. Morrisons and Hollands dubious credentials? Perhaps:o As long as they play for the shirt, thats the main thing

[Krstic]

Give me another John Aldridge, Ray Houghton or Andy Townsend any day.

I don't think that your birthplace matters, as long as you perform:ball:

[as_i_say]

Yeah heard that about Holland before alright so thats a strange one. Its an argument that'll never go away but i am glad that we now have more young irish lads coming through than in the charlton era, when we definitely needed those plastics and they gave their all for us so fair play.

I think Morrisson is one of them as well-he got abuse from people when he first arrived but his desire and committment cant be questioned. I'd pick him first choice striker.

My favorite granny plastics would be andy townsend, john aldridge (great grandmother!!) and Cas, who should never have been allowed to play for us but was a great lad.

[mjpcc]

no fear of me deserting. I see it as part of the territory to listen to eejits whilst following Ireland who will never understand the diaspora.

Guys who think 11 Irish born players in the national side is somehow superior to a side that includes 2g etc...


Could'nt agree more. I'm Irish but have 3 kids born in Canada. I hear this sh*ite all the time. In fact from some of the younger home based generation in my own family I'm not considered really Irish anymore because I do not live there.

Next time any of them begrudgers go to an away match check out how many fans are from and living in countries abroad - and not just students or kids having a jolly abroad for a few months either.

Give me a break.

[Dodge]

Could'nt agree more. I'm Irish but have 3 kids born in Canada. I hear this sh*ite all the time. In fact from some of the younger home based generation in my own family I'm not considered really Irish anymore because I do not live there.

Next time any of them begrudgers go to an away match check out how many fans are from and living in countries abroad - and not just students or kids having a jolly abroad for a few months either.

Give me a break.

I don't thnk anyone has a problem with 2nd genration players in itself. It’s the Clinton morrison/Matt Holland/Jason MCAteer's of this world who discover their Irishness purely to further their footballing career that I, and others, have a problem with

[Finn 05]

I cant beleive some people are ****ed with Holland as he sung GSTQ in a play off. How about an ex manager winning the world cup with England.
Should he not have got the job cause he sang his anthem 30 years previous.

[elroy]

Yeah heard that about Holland before alright so thats a strange one. Its an argument that'll never go away but i am glad that we now have more young irish lads coming through than in the charlton era, when we definitely needed those plastics and they gave their all for us so fair play.

I think Morrisson is one of them as well-he got abuse from people when he first arrived but his desire and committment cant be questioned. I'd pick him first choice striker.

My favorite granny plastics would be andy townsend, john aldridge (great grandmother!!) and Cas, who should never have been allowed to play for us but was a great lad.

In fairness to MH, at the end of the day he is still english so hes hardly gonna starting booing GSTQ or something like that. Once the players have a genuine desire to play for Ireland and give 100% for the jersey, ive no compliants.
Morrison is a perfect example, i wasnt happy with his u turn in playing for us but since then he's won me over. I have a sneaky feeling, given the form he's in, he could be the hero wed night.

[Junior]

I don't thnk anyone has a problem with 2nd genration players in itself. It’s the Clinton morrison/Matt Holland/Jason MCAteer's of this world who discover their Irishness purely to further their footballing career that I, and others, have a problem with

Im 2G and I agree with that - its not and should never be a 'career' decision (I know others have a much more liberal view on it). Im not sure how you avoid it other than imposing legislation ensuring you register your nationality at a certain age 16, 18 or 21 Im not sure but I guess there could be all sorts of ramifications.

[as_i_say]

Well said Elroy-it must be a strange feeling for the likes of Holland who chose to play for Ireland at an older age. Its only natural to be a bit sus of players like that cos we have had a few examples of it in the past-Paul Butler saying he'd declare for Wales if he didnt get picked for us etc..

But those guys generally dont last it with us-whatever happened to Jon Macken?

Personally I always wondered about Mark Lawrenson-such a brilliant footballer-wonder why he didnt get picked for England, or why he chose us etc.-anyone have any info on him?

Can understand plastics on this board getting upset but its an interesting topic.

[Noelys Guitar]

Before this latest "Green Army" at least half the travelling fans for the French game in 1979 came from the Irish born abroad. More than half the travelling fans in Belgium 81 came from London, Manchester, Birmingham or wherever. I met an Irish fan born in Nottingham who was in Dalyer in 1962 for an Ireland game and still goes today. Surely the new "uber" nationalists shouldn't be following the team at all seen that the players all play in the hated premiership and we have a London born coach!

[as_i_say]

so you're an aul lad then? know anything about lawro?

[Stuttgart88]

Personally I always wondered about Mark Lawrenson-such a brilliant footballer-wonder why he didnt get picked for England, or why he chose us etc.-anyone have any info on him?
Lawrenson's an interesting one alright & I've always wondered about him.

But after England won the Rugby WC he was on MOTD that night. Lineker was being really smug and asked Lawrsenson his opinion. He replied "You may be happy but I'm not so sure, as an Irishman".

[drinkfeckarse]

I've no problem at all with 2g Irish. Sure my 8 month old son is the same now and if he's good enough I'll make sure he declares for us come the time:) I always thought the "granny" rule was taking things a little too far.

[Stormin Normin]

To be fair to Lawernson any time he's found himself in that type of situation he has always stated that he is Irish.

Actually met him in Irish team hotel in Orlando during '94 WC. Decent character and good for a bit of banter.

[liam88]

Ah...shame we'ves got to get back to the old Irish/British debate.....as has been said on here as far as i'm concerned if someone chooses to play for/support Ireland they are Irish in my book.....mabye as_I_say should be having a chat to plastic Peader?? :D :D
Or mabye we should just shoot all 2G/3G? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[elroy]

Call me naive...but i always assumed Lawro was Irish born and bred no?

In fairness the likes of Andy Townsend always refers to ireland as we when talking about them. yes theres has being one or two who have seen Ireland as a way to boost their career, but 95% of players who have played for us who are not Irish born have served us well. Interestingly though, in truth, our best ever players have all being Irish born eg Brady, Whelan, Keane, Staunton, Quinn, Giles, Stapleton, McGrath, etc etc

[tetsujin1979]

Call me naive...but i always assumed Lawro was Irish born and bred no?
Nope, born in England, Preston if I recall correctly

[as_i_say]

If you go back to my original post it was the fact that something happened on a teamsheet on Saturday that hasnt happened in a competetive match (or friendly) for us in 20 years is all, and that it warrented a mention, because if we are getting more of these young lads in, things may be improving in the under age scene. who knows.

[as_i_say]

moot point elroy-mcgrath was actually born in England. Yep they have served us well-I aint got nowt against any guy who wants to play for us.

[Junior]

Interestingly though, in truth, our best ever players have all being Irish born eg Brady, Whelan, Keane, Staunton, Quinn, Giles, Stapleton, McGrath, etc etc

Well all bar McGrath of course. Born in London;)

[Noelys Guitar]

Lawernson born in Preston correct Limerick. Ireland have always had a decent oddball crew of supporters and players and long may it continue. We could do with a few characters in the dressing room on wednesday night. And I firmly believe they will show up too. This team has better players than they have recently been given credit for. Watch the way they play on Wednesday.

[Metrostars]

Has Ireland ever had a player born outside of England/Scotland play for us?

[Donal81]

Has Ireland ever had a player born outside of England/Scotland play for us?

Patrick Kohlmann in the underage teams but I can't think of any senior players. Well, there is Stephen McPhail who was born in New York but I think he was raised in Ireland.

[davey]

My favorite granny plastics would be andy townsend, john aldridge (great grandmother!!) and Cas, who should never have been allowed to play for us but was a great lad.

Don't think thats actually strictly true about Cas. Was it not that his Grandparent, whom he actually qualified through, was adopted? so although there was no blood link to Ireland, he was still legally permitted to play for us??

[Cowboy]

Lawrenson's an interesting one alright & I've always wondered about him.

But after England won the Rugby WC he was on MOTD that night. Lineker was being really smug and asked Lawrsenson his opinion. He replied "You may be happy but I'm not so sure, as an Irishman".

Lawrenson once said that it was Alan Kelly Senior who convinced him to play for Ireland

[Cowboy]

he was still legally permitted to play for us??

Yes he was legitimately allowed to play for us although he made a big song and dance about it when his book came out.

[Zidane]

Didnt Jon Goodman ( Wimbledon) who was adopted get a cap when he found out that his natural father or mother was Irish.

I heard that Paul Butler was only able to play for Ireland because he married an Irish girl.

Could be wrong on both of those.

[TheJamaicanP.M.]

Has Ireland ever had a player born outside of England/Scotland play for us?

As well as Patrick Kohlmann, I seem to recall a goalkeeper from Holland playing an underage game for Brian Kerr. Think his name was Wesdey Abdul Azis (spelling?). Think his dad was Indian and his mam was Irish. In addition, a young Italian also played a couple of underage games (think it was 1997). Can't remember his name but his mother was from Roscommon. He was a youth team player at Sampdoria.

I know we've had some great 2nd and 3rd generation Irish over the years but think of all those players we've missed out on:
Kevin Keegan, Mike Phelan!!, Martin Keown, Steven Gerrard, Wayne Rooney, Jose Luis Brown (scored for Argentina in 1986 World Cup Final - relatives in Cork and Athlone), Landon Donovan and Brian McBride from the US.

Dion Fanning actually wrote an interesting article in yesterday's Sunday Independent about the whole issue of players born outside Ireland and that maybe this current Irish team is lacking the diaspora influence. Interesting read.

Franck Quedrue anyone?

[TonyD]

I know we've had some great 2nd and 3rd generation Irish over the years but think of all those players we've missed out on:
Kevin Keegan, Mike Phelan!!, Martin Keown, Steven Gerrard, Wayne Rooney, Jose Luis Brown (scored for Argentina in 1986 World Cup Final - relatives in Cork and Athlone), Landon Donovan and Brian McBride from the US.

I believe Paul Scholes falls into this camp as well, more qualified than some who have actually played for us I seem to recall reading somwhere. On Mark Lawrenson, I think it was just a case of us getting him early, while he was playing for Preston or Brighton(Not sure which) Then again it was probably playing for Ireland that got him noticed and landed him his big move to Liverpool, so he may not have had the career he did had he not played for us. Incidently he does appear to suffer from a slightly split personality on the nationality front, he was on football focus the other week talking about England as "we" and "us".

[tetsujin1979]

I'm not 100% on this, but I believe Paddy McCarthy was actually born in Mexico City!!
Also was Fabian O'Neill (Uruguayan winger) eligible for us?

[Cowboy]

Didnt Jon Goodman ( Wimbledon) who was adopted get a cap when he found out that his natural father or mother was Irish.

I heard that Paul Butler was only able to play for Ireland because he married an Irish girl.

Could be wrong on both of those.

You are right on both AFAIK, its the entitlement to a passport that counts