More British-born players anyone?(2G discussion

[robbie_B]

You think the Irish born players are bothered about the accents of their teamates? Does clinton get quized on his knowledge of Irish history or are they more concerned about him working his ******** off when he pulls on the jersey?

[Dodge]

You think the Irish born players are bothered about the accents of their teamates? Does clinton get quized on his knowledge of Irish history or are they more concerned about him working his ******** off when he pulls on the jersey?
Well Roy Keane waas famously bothered about it...

[robbie_B]

Well Roy Keane waas famously bothered about it...

But is it just Keane who is bothered by it? Sure Keane would always find something to moan about.

[Plastic Paddy]

Well Roy Keane waas famously bothered about it...

That's famous hearsay. None of us know what was said in that room. It certainly suited the agendae of some "commentators" (and one or two posters on here?) for Keane to have called Mick Mac (and by extension all 2G and 3G players) an "English c**t"... :rolleyes:

:ball: PP

[shakermaker1982]

Would have loved to see the reaction in that room when keano went nuts at Mick back in 2002.

Haven't heard the Clinton incident though? "Who is Parnell mister and what religion was he as a bonus point" !!!

[razor]

That's famous hearsay. None of us know what was said in that room. It certainly suited the agendae of some "commentators" (and one or two posters on here?) for Keane to have called Mick Mac (and by extension all 2G and 3G players) an "English c**t"..Didn't Mother Niall come out and say that Roy never made that comment and sure Niall never tells lies.

[as_i_say]

i would be amazed if keane ever said something like that about players with english accents. I think it was around the time that he allegedly called McCarthy an English cu*t whereas in fact he only called him a fu cking cu*t. Also read somewhere that clinton and keane are actually quite good buds in the irish set up.

[eirebhoy]

i would be amazed if keane ever said something like that about players with english accents.
Considering his kids would have English accents I very much doubt Keane has a problem with it.

[as_i_say]

anyway the likes of finnan and doherty are from limerick and donegal respectively and both have durty cockneys on them. Keane would have been made an outcast if he ever said something that daft

[Dodge]

anyway the likes of finnan and doherty are from limerick and donegal respectively and both have durty cockneys on them. Keane would have been made an outcast if he ever said something that daft
... As opposed to being made an outcast for walking out on the team before the world cup.

I said the think above as a joke. It's totally different on a one to one basis as I'm sure they're all nice lads.

[Tipp Townie]

Regarding Lawrenson, i understand that it was Al Kelly who convinced him to play for Ireland when he was really young at Preston. I think Giles stuck him in the team way before he wanted to, purely because he saw the talent and realised he had to corner him before any of the England set-up noticed!

As for non-England/Scotland players, still close-by but Kev Sheedy was Welsh-born.

But i thought that Paul McGrath was actually born in Dublin, then spent his very early months in London before returning to Ireland?:confused:

[dynamo kerry]

Regarding Lawrenson, i understand that it was Al Kelly who convinced him to play for Ireland when he was really young at Preston. I think Giles stuck him in the team way before he wanted to, purely because he saw the talent and realised he had to corner him before any of the England set-up noticed!

As for non-England/Scotland players, still close-by but Kev Sheedy was Welsh-born.

But i thought that Paul McGrath was actually born in Dublin, then spent his very early months in London before returning to Ireland?:confused:


ask him next time you see him in leeson st.

[as_i_say]

nah mcgrath deffo born in england-also mcphail was born in london as well, not usa. makes sense about lawro. same deal as ray houghton. def-in-et-ly.

[tetsujin1979]

nah mcgrath deffo born in england-also mcphail was born in london as well, not usa. makes sense about lawro. same deal as ray houghton. def-in-et-ly.
You sure about McPhail? According to this - http://home.eircom.net/javascript/Ewishes/cyprus/profiles/p_stevemcphail.html - he was born in Queens.

[as_i_say]

well i wasnt 100% till you said it but I had a quick look and found:

http://www.4thegame.com/club/barnsley-fc/player-profile/27272/stephenmcphail.html

http://www.soccerbase.com/players_details.sd?playerid=13638

http://www.soccerfactsuk.co.uk/previous/player_details.php?playerid=8419

I also saw it on a pannini sticker i think and those guys are never wrong :)

[Metrostars]

A kid from the US was called up for a Under 16 game a few months ago. I'll have to dig that info out.

[Metrostars]

A kid from the US was called up for a Under 16 game a few months ago. I'll have to dig that info out.

Here it is (from August):

THE first result of the FAI's search for new players in America will be seen this week when the Irish U-17s take part in the Nordic Cup.

Among Sean McCaffrey's 18-man squad for the tournament in Reykjavik is 15-year-old American-born defender Conor Murphy from Wallingford, Connecticut.

Murphy, whose maternal grandparents hail from Dundalk, has been tracked for the past six months by McCaffrey after the Irish manager was tipped off about his eligibility and eagerness to play for Ireland by an Irish-based cousin.
...


There may be a ton of good young kids from the US who may be available for Ireland. I know that the father of Michael Parkhurst father is from Ireland, he is a center-half with the Revs in MLS.

[CraftyToePoke]

does anyone know if gareth barry,michael carrick or gavin mccan were ever investigated or linked with us? (going purely on their surnames here)

i think the american angle is well worth pursuing.for those lads it may be seen as a huge honour to be asked to play for us,as opposed to a back up plan if an england career doesnt materialise which has sometimes, devalued the honour of an irish cap when pursuing british based/born players.

theres also the factor that it may bring about a move to europe for their careers,should they do well for us, a big pulling factor foe players in the u.s.

[Dodge]

does anyone know if gareth barry,michael carrick or gavin mccan were ever investigated or linked with us? (going purely on their surnames here)

i think the american angle is well worth pursuing.for those lads it may be seen as a huge honour to be asked to play for us,as opposed to a back up plan if an england career doesnt materialise which has sometimes, devalued the honour of an irish cap when pursuing british based/born players.

theres also the factor that it may bring about a move to europe for their careers,should they do well for us, a big pulling factor foe players in the u.s.
So picking the British born lads devalues winning an Ireland but we should actively seek out Americans who may want to use us to get a move to europe?! How is that better?

ps... the sampadoria lad was called Simon somethingorother

[CraftyToePoke]

So picking the British born lads devalues winning an Ireland but we should actively seek out Americans who may want to use us to get a move to europe?! How is that better?

ps... the sampadoria lad was called Simon somethingorother

dodge,what i meant was..a lad who elects to represent us from a very early stage of his career,wherever he is born or what accent he speaks with is a better scenario then someone firstly fully pursuing the option of playing for england(or anyone else) and failing that electing to represent Ireland. i think that devalues an irish cap.

on the other matter,if the lads declare for us and as a consequence of that earn a move to europe then they will be playing at a higher standard which in turn will benefit us.

[Roverstillidie]

on the other matter,if the lads declare for us and as a consequence of that earn a move to europe then they will be playing at a higher standard which in turn will benefit us.

you have spectacularly missed the point here ctp.
it is not the function of the FAI to promote foreign born players careers (in fact they push kids into 'careers' in england rather than set up youth structures here to attempt to keep elite players in ireland long enough to get a fee for them). genuine diaspora playing for their exiled nation is one thing, and welcomed by yours truely, but the objection is to players soely 'becoming' irish to further their careers. the FAI should have no truck with that.

i include morrison (please play me sven), holland (singing gstq after taking an irish passport to play), townsend (black armbands for diana) and other non-entities like butler and goodman.

whether the plastics like it or not, players like morrison do alienate me somewhat from the national side. it is in no way shape or form an anti-english or burn the ports attitude, these guys are essentially parasitic and i would question whether they can be trusted when the chips are down.

ditto the brazilians playing for portugal, who have caused a split in the side.

i dont accept the 'any dcent player we can con fifa into letting us play' arguement for one second. i would rather be ordinary with pride

[Plastic Paddy]

whether the plastics like it or not, players like morrison do alienate me somewhat from the national side. it is in no way shape or form an anti-english or burn the ports attitude, these guys are essentially parasitic and i would question whether they can be trusted when the chips are down.

Two things:

1. Please use a term, any term, other than "the plastics". It's frankly insulting and shows that you're hardly attempting to relate to us (your fellow posters, the wider diaspora) at all. Try 2G instead. It's largely what we are and it means that we'll respond nicely to you. (As for my handle? An ironic reference to being called a "plastic" all my life... :rolleyes: )

2. The sons-of-the-soil brigade hardly set the heather blazing on Saturday, did they? On that basis, I'd never trust Waterford-born players or indeed most Dubs when the chips were down. And don't ever let men from Tallaght near the team, oh no... :eek:

:ball: PP

[mjpcc]

I think we have extablished beyond doubt that a large percentage of
Ireland's follwing are 2gs or ex-pats and I see no reason why the team itself should not reflect the wider Irish community.

[dancinpants]

I think we have extablished beyond doubt that a large percentage of
Ireland's follwing are 2gs or ex-pats and I see no reason why the team itself should not reflect the wider Irish community.

But isn't the team made up of players that LIVE and play in England? Does this not make ALL the Irish born players ex-pats?

I agree with RTID, there seems to be too many "hanger ons" and they need to be rooted out. And their like must be prevented from gettin' in in the future.

[tricky_colour]

Regarding Matt Holland singing GSTG he is entitled to if he has and
English as well as Irish parent, or whatever, some people are of mixed
nationality, are they to be barred from playing International football.

Could we take a poll on this?
Should people of mixed nationality be barred from playing International football? That seems to be the view of some here.

[tricky_colour]

But isn't the team made up of players that LIVE and play in England? Does this not make ALL the Irish born players ex-pats?

I agree with RTID, there seems to be too many "hanger ons" and they need to be rooted out. And their like must be prevented from gettin' in in the future.

Yep it's a fekking pain commuting on da ferry.:D

[dancinpants]

Yep it's a fekking pain commuting on da ferry.:D

lol :D

[Dan K]

1. Please use a term, any term, other than "the plastics". It's frankly insulting and shows that you're hardly attempting to relate to us (your fellow posters, the wider diaspora) at all. Try 2G instead. It's largely what we are and it means that we'll respond nicely to you. (As for my handle? An ironic reference to being called a "plastic" all my life... :rolleyes: )


The one that I hate is "British born" or "English Born".

I was born Irish, in England.

[Roverstillidie]

Should people of mixed nationality be barred from playing International football? That seems to be the view of some here.

thats not what anyone has said. dont try and put words in peoples mouths
i will repeat, the issue is not 2g (apologies PP, i was quoting someone else...) players being welcomed, its no g players who find a tenious link with ireland strictly to enhance their footballing careers, often after a 'come and get me' plea to the england manager at the time.

matt holland (and he isnt the worst) summed this attitude up when after declaring for ireland and taking an irish passport, publically sang the anthem of his previous nationality. not exactly inspiring towords his motives. how many of the 2g'rs on here sing that song when the issue arises? diito townsend as captain insisting that black armbands be worn for di. where was he when greysteel and a load of fans watching ireland were gunned down?

i understand that the concept of duel nationality or identity is a tricky one, especially in the northern context, but i find it very hard to believe matty was making a subtle political point. he sings his anthem when he hears it, and it unfortunatly isnt the one he chose to represent.

only a pure bigot wouldnt welcome the tradition of the diaspora playing for ireland over the years, but the likes of morrison abuse that linkage and all it stands for in order to get a move or a few more grand at negotiation time.

[davey]

thats not what anyone has said. dont try and put words in peoples mouths
i will repeat, the issue is not 2g (apologies PP, i was quoting someone else...) players being welcomed, its no g players who find a tenious link with ireland strictly to enhance their footballing careers, often after a 'come and get me' plea to the england manager at the time.

matt holland (and he isnt the worst) summed this attitude up when after declaring for ireland and taking an irish passport, publically sang the anthem of his previous nationality. not exactly inspiring towords his motives. how many of the 2g'rs on here sing that song when the issue arises? diito townsend as captain insisting that black armbands be worn for di. where was he when greysteel and a load of fans watching ireland were gunned down?

i understand that the concept of duel nationality or identity is a tricky one, especially in the northern context, but i find it very hard to believe matty was making a subtle political point. he sings his anthem when he hears it, and it unfortunatly isnt the one he chose to represent.

only a pure bigot wouldnt welcome the tradition of the diaspora playing for ireland over the years, but the likes of morrison abuse that linkage and all it stands for in order to get a move or a few more grand at negotiation time.

As a 2g, I'd find it hard to argue with any of that. Good post. Holland singing GSTQ is a bit hard to swallow allright although perhaps being a bit hard on Townsend - Greysteel and Princess Di?? Not being fair on the man linking those two.

[Roverstillidie]

As a 2g, I'd find it hard to argue with any of that. Good post. Holland singing GSTQ is a bit hard to swallow allright although perhaps being a bit hard on Townsend - Greysteel and Princess Di?? Not being fair on the man linking those two.

perhaps, the point im making isn't, bizzarly, that there shouldnt have been a mark of respect for the woman.
its just he felt it was the correct thing to do to bring 16 black arm bands into the dressing room off his own bat before a game because she died, but his instinct didnt stretch to commerating people murdered watching the team he captained because they watched the team he captained.

that point was made at the time.

would have been gas if keano aged 30 was handed one though :D that would be worth seeing....

to be fair to townsend, his personality and playing style made it obvious he would give 100% all the time, something i wish i could say about some of the "natives"!

[tricky_colour]

The point I am making, which some/most/all appear to miss is what do you
do in the situation where you have an Irish father and English mother,
for instance? (Both mine are Irish, for the record).
Do you insult you fathers or your mothers nationality by not singing their
national anthem?

I don't know Hollands situation and quite frankly I am not bothered, he qualifies and want to play (because he does). He may, and probably has two
passports. Handy when your plane is hi-jacked so you can produce the correct one for the hi-jackers.

As for him playing in a match against England, well he would be cup-tied of
course :D

[Marked Man]

[QUOTE=Roverstillidie]

would have been gas if keano aged 30 was handed one though :D that would be worth seeing....

QUOTE]

He'd a been too busy walking out on us to notice.

[Metrostars]

Regarding Matt Holland singing GSTG he is entitled to if he has and
English as well as Irish parent, or whatever, some people are of mixed
nationality, are they to be barred from playing International football.

Could we take a poll on this?
Should people of mixed nationality be barred from playing International football? That seems to be the view of some here.

I became a US citizen 5 years ago and I have no problem singing the Star Spankled Banner as well as Amhrán na bhFiann. My wife is an american plus my kids are American born, we go back to Ireland every year, they've got two passports too and therefore entitled to play for either country.
I think there should be a rule that by 21 you have to decide which country you want to play for if you havent been capped already. There should be none of these late bloomers who try to latch on to one country after failing with their native country.

[Dodge]

I thnk that rule should be 18. I have no problem with people with dual nationalities but if you're going to sing another anthem, the very least you can do is learn the other one. (Kilbane sings as gaelige)

As regards the plastics (and I use this term not for genuine 2g but for the cases we've already highlighted) always trying hard. Thats professional pride. They try just as hard playing for Charlton, Ipswich, Chelsea or whover else they're playing with. When talking about Ireland the use the term "we" like they do when talking a club side they've played with their career. Clinton Morrison kissing the FAI badge?

[Kevin77]

I don't see the problem. I was born in Clare and lived there til I was 9. Moved to Dublin, then moved to Australia when I was 11. Lived there til I was 24. Then moved back to Dublin. Now live in Australia again.

I have a predominantly Aussie accent, but I'm Irish. Simple as that. I'd play for Ireland, support Ireland. Doesn't mean that I don't want Australia to do well...in fact I'd love them to be in the next world cup.

People need to chill out.

[Junior]

thats not what anyone has said. dont try and put words in peoples mouths
i will repeat, the issue is not 2g (apologies PP, i was quoting someone else...) players being welcomed, its no g players who find a tenious link with ireland strictly to enhance their footballing careers, often after a 'come and get me' plea to the england manager at the time.

matt holland (and he isnt the worst) summed this attitude up when after declaring for ireland and taking an irish passport, publically sang the anthem of his previous nationality. not exactly inspiring towords his motives. how many of the 2g'rs on here sing that song when the issue arises? diito townsend as captain insisting that black armbands be worn for di. where was he when greysteel and a load of fans watching ireland were gunned down?

i understand that the concept of duel nationality or identity is a tricky one, especially in the northern context, but i find it very hard to believe matty was making a subtle political point. he sings his anthem when he hears it, and it unfortunatly isnt the one he chose to represent.

only a pure bigot wouldnt welcome the tradition of the diaspora playing for ireland over the years, but the likes of morrison abuse that linkage and all it stands for in order to get a move or a few more grand at negotiation time.

Agree with most of that. No question the mercenaries for want of a better word have made it more difficult for 2nd or 3rdG to be accepted by 1stG fans, media & fans of other countries particularly in the UK.

I would much rather a team of KK's & Breens but its a fine line and it wouldn't be long before the likes of morrison were regailing tales of his childhood back home with his grandmother 'before' he declared for Ireland;)

[Dodge]

Way to miss the point Kevin77...

[Kevin77]

Way to miss the point Kevin77...

Not sure I really made a point! Ha ha...I just read it back

I'm sick...stomach bug and probably delirious.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that it takes all sorts. Who is more Irish? The person who is born in Mozambique but grows up in Dublin and has a thick Irish accent. Or the Irish born person that moved to Mozambique and has a thick Mozambique accent?

I don't know.

And what about those born in America or the US or Australia to Irish parents?

I don't know.

To me the most important thing is that you do your best and enjoy either following or playing for the team regardless of your birthplace/raised place/accent/any other credentials

[Dodge]

The point you missed was, as far as I cna see, no one has a problem with 2g people supporting or playing for Ireland. What some of us have a problem with is people playing for our country as a last resort in order to boost their own career.

[Kevin77]

The point you missed was, as far as I cna see, no one has a problem with 2g people supporting or playing for Ireland. What some of us have a problem with is people playing for our country as a last resort in order to boost their own career.

I suppose the only way we can ever be sure of that is if they come out and say it.

[lopez]

Interesting thread with some good obervations and points, spoilt by the inevitable ignorance of some (I hope) immature schoolkids. Someone's upset by Matt Holland once singing Ode to the German Lady. Well what about those pure Irish people that sing/sung it in the past? Perhaps leaving the economics, IT and Businesss Studies courses at the school and looking at the history of your own country and some of the people - born and bred within the 26C - who passed the the birth test. Wellington, Kitchener, Carson. And for those that are dismissing Protestants as somehow un-Irish, there's also William Joyce of Lord Haw-Haw fame. Any older Kilkenny fans can correct me, but didn't the fanzine 'Every Man's a Football Artist' carry an intriguing observation of the son of an Irish diplomat singing the same song as Holland during a British Lions tour circa 1989? For those that are clearly ignorant about the 'Brits' that were willing to sacrifice their liberty and lives for an independent Ireland, may avail of themselves the book 'Enchanted by dreams: The journal of a revolutionary' by Joe Good. Doubt it you'll find it on the Free State History Sylabus reading list though. :rolleyes:

Then there is this propensity to see anyone with an Irish surnane as somehow ours. Wayne Rooney may have an Irish surname and look like something out of a Thomas Nast cartoon, but he's as Irish as Andy Townsend (one Irish grandparent I believe although with others from Liverpool the blood's bound to be richer with it). To be fair, I don't think there have been that many British born players with two Irish born parents that have played for England since Shay Brennan. Martin Keown (who's parents are from the North) and, erm, :confused: Kevin Gallen. Any more offers? If we are to believe that only the second best choose Ireland, then next to the Asian community, I can't see such a large community in Britain that has produced so few decent footballers.

As for Townsend, I couldn't agree more with Rovers. I never had much time for this tw*t cycling across Mallorca one minute to support England against us, while within a year was picking up caps with us. I also found his attitude in Iceland nothing short of disgracefull, especially after doing F*ck all for those killed in Loughinisland (not Greyskill BTW).

[as_i_say]

My cats name is mittens.

[Plastic Paddy]

My cat's name is Mittens.

Serves you right. You started this. :p

:ball: PP

[CollegeTillIDie]

Ok it's like this . How to qualify for irish citizenship....
Born anywhere on the Island of Ireland. Son or daughter of a parent born anywhere on the island of Ireland. Grandson or daughter of a grandparent born anywhere on the island of Ireland. All of these people have to have been born before the recent citizenship referendum too by the way :)

Which means George Best is entitled to a passport from the Republic of Ireland. Oh and by the way as recent displays will have proved being born on the Emerald Isle is no guarantee of either football ability of partriotism.

[Dodge]

There's way more ways to to get Irish citizenship. Doesn't really matter in this context though

[as_i_say]

Serves you right. You started this. :p

:ball: PP

g'wan outta that. people are talking about this cos its a valid topic. i was reacting to lopez's james joyce soliloquy up there and very nice it was too.:D

[Tenderloins]

The funny thng is that soon enough we'll have players born in Ireland opting to play for Poland,Romania Nigeria etc

[CraftyToePoke]

you have spectacularly missed the point here ctp.
it is not the function of the FAI to promote foreign born players careers (in fact they push kids into 'careers' in england rather than set up youth structures here to attempt to keep elite players in ireland long enough to get a fee for them). genuine diaspora playing for their exiled nation is one thing, and welcomed by yours truely, but the objection is to players soely 'becoming' irish to further their careers. the FAI should have no truck with that.

i include morrison (please play me sven), holland (singing gstq after taking an irish passport to play), townsend (black armbands for diana) and other non-entities like butler and goodman.

whether the plastics like it or not, players like morrison do alienate me somewhat from the national side. it is in no way shape or form an anti-english or burn the ports attitude, these guys are essentially parasitic and i would question whether they can be trusted when the chips are down.

ditto the brazilians playing for portugal, who have caused a split in the side.

i dont accept the 'any dcent player we can con fifa into letting us play' arguement for one second. i would rather be ordinary with pride

my point was not that the fai should do that RTID,it was if someone declares for us early in their career through a genuine wish of wanting to play for ireland then its a far better scenario than others declaring as a last resort or as a tactical career move,.......having done that,if that decision to play for us,and they are selected and do well, brings about further success in other areas of their career..then good luck to them.that was all.

as for the parisitic element,couldnt agree with you more,i believe their involvment devalues the honour also.id like to see our fai close off this avenue so lads cant be cajoled by agents or clubs to keep both options open for as long as possible.

dont get me wrong,all are welcome regardless of accent,birthplace etc, in my book,..as long as they are wanting an irish cap for the right reasons.

[razor]

I miss davros.