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Nah Nah Nah Nah
09/03/2026, 7:32 AM
Think it was actually Kevin Doherty and someone else

TVFBLOCKF
09/03/2026, 12:46 PM
Not really sure why crowd was so poor in Eamonn Deacy Park on Friday. The fickle nature of the Galway sports fan I guess. Six nations and Liverpool on didn't help. There was about 100/150 from Dundalk too so one of the poorer away crowds.

outspoken
09/03/2026, 5:29 PM
And Dundalk had brought massive crowds to Tallaght and Derry. The rugby must have had a hit alright

Nesta99
09/03/2026, 9:24 PM
Wales at home with a round to go so not a decider, would it really have that much of an impact? I wouldnt have thought televised rugby on a Friday night going up against LoI would have knocked big chunks off attendance. More likely to be weather, another away game after a good few already. Galway is often taken as an overnighter, a good place to do so so maybe prices are up or availability not great. Something on in town? Maybe Im underestimating the draw of the rugby!

nr637
10/03/2026, 10:33 AM
5,683 at Tolka last night for Shels v Shams while there was 5,090 for Shels v St. Pats on Friday. Great attendances, but what made the difference, do Shams just bring a bigger away support!

kksaints
10/03/2026, 11:01 AM
5,683 at Tolka last night for Shels v Shams while there was 5,090 for Shels v St. Pats on Friday. Great attendances, but what made the difference, do Shams just bring a bigger away support!

No, our away end was sold out. I assume the difference was casual Shels fans who might have watched the rugby or Liverpool match instead on Friday.

sbgawa
10/03/2026, 11:10 AM
No, our away end was sold out. I assume the difference was casual Shels fans who might have watched the rugby or Liverpool match instead on Friday.Rovers just a bigger draw for Shels fans than Pats :)

2 Year Contract
13/03/2026, 9:26 PM
4,778 at Pats Drogs, good crowd considering the away fan ban

2 Year Contract
13/03/2026, 9:27 PM
Jesus just seeing there was only 2,974 at the Brandywell tonight. A poor start to the season but that’s very very low for the 6th game of the season on a Friday night

outspoken
13/03/2026, 11:45 PM
Over 2,800 at Oriel, 50-70 away fans so that's a good home crowd on a Baltic cold night. Big game Monday should draw another good crowd

Nostradamus
14/03/2026, 12:11 AM
Shame it didn’t break 3000 in Oriel again tonight, had been hopeful we could maybe hold that level even with a lower away attendance.

outspoken
14/03/2026, 8:43 AM
Shame it didn’t break 3000 in Oriel again tonight, had been hopeful we could maybe hold that level even with a lower away attendance.

It was bloody bitter, two games in 3 days, not bad going. In fairness to the club they did a deal online for people buying for the two games and the bar was absolutely packed before and after as well, seems to be a lot of stuff being bought in the club shop too, they seem to be doing a lot right at the minute

nigel-harps1954
14/03/2026, 9:24 AM
Only 811 in Finn Park last night. Could say that 11 were away fans too. Bitter cold night, but it was dry all evening. Very poor crowds to start the season at Harps.

WoodquayBoy
14/03/2026, 9:51 AM
Not to drag up old crap like a plunger but Longford get absolutely hammered for only getting 500-600 at games in a town with 10k people in it. The size of Galway and they're getting under 2k, how many Dundalk fans traveled? Longford's attendances aren't actually as bad as many people make out

It’s a Galway thing. Look at the rugby last night, Connacht at home against the Scarlets in the URC with no real competition elsewhere and the hyped-up new ground less than half full. The hurlers played Kilkenny in Salthill a fortnight ago and only about 5,000 at it.
People in Galway love an ‘event’ but are not great at supporting things, has long long loonnngggh being the way here

Dalymountrower
14/03/2026, 10:37 AM
It’s a Galway thing. Look at the rugby last night, Connacht at home against the Scarlets in the URC with no real competition elsewhere and the hyped-up new ground less than half full. The hurlers played Kilkenny in Salthill a fortnight ago and only about 5,000 at it.
People in Galway love an ‘event’ but are not great at supporting things, has long long loonnngggh being the way here

Unfortunately true, if the event doesnt involve a parade of giant papier machee heads, Galway people just wont show up.

Nesta99
14/03/2026, 10:46 AM
Ah I think its nationwide. Support drops when you need it the most and struggling. In that regard you have to give credit to the resilience of the English fan and attitude. They tend to more circle the wagons when things get bad. An example but far from the same scale would be Spurs fans, and youd excuse them for giving up and not bothering. They are like Derry City, could throw a full kitchen at winning the league and you still feel they'd botch it.

Roones26
14/03/2026, 11:26 AM
Is there any sign of an early trend?

oriel
14/03/2026, 12:18 PM
Over 2,800 at Oriel, 50-70 away fans so that's a good home crowd on a Baltic cold night. Big game Monday should draw another good crowd

2,819 at Oriel Park last night, I would say max 60 away.

nr637
16/03/2026, 8:56 AM
Great to see fans talking about LOI attendances and whether it was a good home crowd or why the figure should be higher or lower!

EalingGreen
16/03/2026, 1:16 PM
Unfortunately true, if the event doesnt involve a parade of giant papier machee heads, Galway people just wont show up.Why not have a parade at the game?

You could have representations of eg:
John Delaney - hasn't been seen or heard of elsewhere, so why not;
Eamon Dunphy - a giant head would still be only life-sized in his case anyhow;
Roy Keane - if he didn't demand too much for the rights;
Former President O'Higgins - a keen football fan (though with his wee legs, his head always seems outsized anyway);
Nick Leeson - obviously;
James McClean - so both sets of fans could get to wind him up over something;
Enoch Burke - can't keep him away from any public gathering, so might as well.

I'd nearly turn out for that myself! :wink:

Roones26
16/03/2026, 8:45 PM
1,836 saw the game of the round at Eamon Deacy park but that’s a very poor crowd

Nesta99
16/03/2026, 8:53 PM
It was good to keep one stand closed bar the away section though. It meant that on TV it look good. Its always better to have fans grouped together like that as they would sit as far apart as possible dotted around the ground effectiing atmosphere. Could another 2 or 3 blocks be added to the new stand in EDP? It looks like there is space when behind goals are restricted. 1800 isnt awful, its almost 5k over 2 games on one weekend.

MoydowMonty
16/03/2026, 8:59 PM
On the subject of Longford attendances. 1800 approx at Galway tonight for a supposed population of 86,000 in the county. That's over 2%, and not the first time it has happened irrespective of being a monday or friday game. If we say Longford average 550 per game, for 10,000 town, -> 5.5%. And surely similar examples for other clubs.I do believe Longford is capable of getting closer too 1,000 for more games, but there's also a bit of glass houses action with some people when it comes to attendances. I thought 500+ for UCD last week was impressive considering that was all home fans.

Buckett
16/03/2026, 9:03 PM
On the subject of Longford attendances. 1800 approx at Galway tonight for a supposed population of 86,000 in the county. That's over 2%, and not the first time it has happened irrespective of being a monday or friday game. If we say Longford average 550 per game, for 10,000 town, -> 5.5%. And surely similar examples for other clubs.I do believe Longford is capable of getting closer too 1,000 for more games, but there's also a bit of glass houses action with some people when it comes to attendances. I thought 500+ for UCD last week was impressive considering that was all home fans.
The population of county Galway is 276,000, the city is 86k

MoydowMonty
16/03/2026, 9:09 PM
I know, I intentionally kept it to the Towns. Longford's population is 40,000. If you want to do the percentages for those numbers it would be even lower obviously.

outspoken
16/03/2026, 10:24 PM
On the subject of Longford attendances. 1800 approx at Galway tonight for a supposed population of 86,000 in the county. That's over 2%, and not the first time it has happened irrespective of being a monday or friday game. If we say Longford average 550 per game, for 10,000 town, -> 5.5%. And surely similar examples for other clubs.I do believe Longford is capable of getting closer too 1,000 for more games, but there's also a bit of glass houses action with some people when it comes to attendances. I thought 500+ for UCD last week was impressive considering that was all home fans.

100%. Leitrim v Longford in a big game in Div 4 at the weekend, local derby, Longford in the mix for promotion and a rare Croke Park appearance and I'm told only around 500 at it. LTFC's attendances aren't that bad.

Buckett
16/03/2026, 10:36 PM
When you compare anything with something similarly bad, you feel better about yourself, like a dwarf among midgets.
Anything under an average of around 4,000 probably isn't sustainable for professional football. Generous donors needed to prop it up.

Nesta99
17/03/2026, 2:52 AM
When you compare anything with something similarly bad, you feel better about yourself, like a dwarf among midgets.Anything under an average of around 4,000 probably isn't sustainable for professional football. Generous donors needed to prop it up.Its sustainable, but club may have to change its level of ambition. LoI is like an arms race until something happens and things crash only to do it all again. Some have to reset, some are lucky to be able to plug the holes, some get an opportunity to compete for a while. Its probably not far off the days of Cork rumoured to be paying what 4k a week mid 2000s. Drogheda not fah off. 6 figure signing on fee paid by Dundalk in a new boom and bust cycle, who is up next during this one - possible those who think they are most immune.

nr637
17/03/2026, 10:58 AM
Approximately 17,000 fans attend the 5 Premier games on a Monday night. The LOI has really established its position as a top spectator sport.

Roones26
17/03/2026, 11:57 AM
Approximately 17,000 fans attend the 5 Premier games on a Monday night. The LOI has really established its position as a top spectator sport.

17000 doing a lot of heavy lifting here when 60% was at 2 games

dundalkfc10
17/03/2026, 12:12 PM
100%. Leitrim v Longford in a big game in Div 4 at the weekend, local derby, Longford in the mix for promotion and a rare Croke Park appearance and I'm told only around 500 at it. LTFC's attendances aren't that bad.

Louth are limited with attendance in Ardee and sold out 3200 last 2 games but they wouldn't get more than 5000 of they had the capacity (was only 4000 at Cork game in Drogheda when Ardee was waterlogged)

Dundalk and Drogheda combined would always outnumber a Louth game (bar a big championship game) and Louth are absolutely flying the last few years. Even a few years back played Cork in last 12 All Ireland Inneskeen (which is basically in Louth) and was only 5000 at it

nigel-harps1954
17/03/2026, 1:08 PM
Approximately 17,000 fans attend the 5 Premier games on a Monday night. The LOI has really established its position as a top spectator sport.

In Dublin, it's doing well. Outside the Dublin hinterland, it's still struggling really. Bohs, Pats, Shamrock Rovers and Shelbourne all going strong, but it dips off after that.

Obviously Drogheda have capacity restrictions, so we can't know what they'd be hitting, but hardly much more than Dundalks current average which is just below 3,000. Derry in with an urban area population of over 100,000 people, and the added James McClean return, are still only half filling their stadium. The aforementioned Galway, only averaging 2.5k in a sporting mad city, while Sligo and Waterford tip along around 2.7k average each in large enough urban areas of their own.

The First Division tells a real tale of how 'established' the LOI has become in spectator sport circles. Take out Cork City attendances and the average for the division sits at a pretty dreadful 845. Even at 1,110 along with Cork City, it doesn't scream sustainable professional football at all, despite a couple of the teams in there operating either full time, or hybrid full time models.

nigel-harps1954
17/03/2026, 1:36 PM
First of the season.

PREMIER DIVISION

Bohs - 10,003 (5,682{2025}; 4,241 {2024}; 4,243 {2023}; 3,209 {2022};2,878{19}; 2,148; 2,006; 1,627; 1,724; 1,395; 1,597)
Derry - 3,854 (3,468; 2,875; 3,336; 3,184; 2,049; 2,297; 1,517; 1,563; 1,124; 1,106; 1,446)
Drogheda - 2,347(2,296; 2,023; 1,916; 1,941; 721 FD; ; 377 FD; 850; 583 FD; 813; 1,0641)
Dundalk - 2,994 (1,854 FD; 2,419; 2,636; 2,689; 2,775; 2,738; 2,674; 2,738; 3,158; 2,534; 1,997)
Galway - 2,563 (2,785; 3,014; 2,018 FD; 2,081 FD; 780 FD; 746 FD; 1,376; 1,169)
Pat's - 4,379 (4,293; 4,402; 4,232; 3,489; 1,919; 1,621; 1,504; 1,088; 1,321; 1,386; 1,687)
Rovers - 5,710 (5,996; 6,071; 6,109; 5,379; 3,384; 2,749; 2,809; 2,041; 2,890; 2,269; 2,763)
Shels - 5,119 (4,562; 4,262; 3,393; 2,913; 1,071 FD; 654 FD; 496 FD; 554 FD; 596 FD; 713 FD; 1,114)
Sligo - 2,789 (2,814; 2,858; 2,555; 2,166; 1,995; 1,853; 1,717; 1,750; 1,750; 1,959; 2,342)
Waterford - 2,682 (2,608; 2,733; 1,833 FD; 1,705 FD; 1,496; 2,329; 1,550 FD; 314 FD; 460 FD; 470 FD; 478 FD)

FIRST DIVISION

Athlone - 815 (489; 642; 872; 307; 382; 130; 154; 156; 314; 653 PD; 754)
Bray - 1,119 (1,061; 644; 663; 482; 773; 643 PD; 966 PD; 957 PD; 769 PD; 718 PD; 891 PD)
Cobh - 1,160 (815; 731; 1,020; 872; 268; 236; 358; 403; 366; 223; 439)
Cork - 3,047 (3,053 PD}; 2,881; 3,666 PD; 3,517; 2,505 PD; 4,245 PD; 4,559 PD; 2,533 PD; 3,263 PD; 3,777 PD; 1,965 PD)
Harps - 934 (853; 1,023; 1,154; 1,293 PD; 1,154 PD; 708; 1,202 PD; 1,216 PD; 784; 449; 479; 429)
Kerry - 592 (663; 610; 784)
Longford - 539 (552; 450; 679; 500; 610; 449; 342; 488 PD; 803 PD; 567; 379)
Treaty - 868 (1,000; 1,060; 642; 695)
UCD - 324 (349; 336; 809 PD; 953 PD; 739 PD; 365; 236; 297; 216; 397 PD; 487 PD; 506 PD)
Wexford - 936 (624; 556; 689; 445; 235; 181; 338; 585 PD; 553; 331; 227)

PREMIER AVERAGE: 4,203 (3,774; 3,490; 3,289; 2,687; 2,185; 2,170; 1,902; 1,476; 1,681; 1,502; 1,566)
FIRST DIVISION AVERAGE: 1,110(826; 894; 1,035; 1,193; 586; 413; 477; 476; 486; 495; 391)

OVERALL AVERAGE: 2,914 (2,300; 2,192; 2,162; 2,051; 1,500; 1,249; 1,387; 1,117; 1,249; 1,160; 1,140)


OVERALL PREMIER ATTENDANCE: 147,089 (679,256; 628,157; 592,093; 486,365; 393,238; 316,515; 376,627; 292,204; 332,805; 297,334)
OVERALL FIRST ATTENDANCE: 27,741 (148,689; 160,964; 186,369; 178,000; 79,115; 55,756; 53,461; 52,807; 54,474; 55,408)

OVERALL COMBINED ATTENDANCE: 174,830 (827,945; 789,121; 778,462; 664,365; 472,353; 372,271; 430,088; 345,011; 387,279; 352,742)

nr637
18/03/2026, 8:20 AM
Approximately 17,000 fans attend the 5 Premier games on a Monday night. The LOI has really established its position as a top spectator sport. Such an obvious reply

nr637
18/03/2026, 8:35 AM
The Dublin City club balance is one of the great successes of the LOI and a feature of the league. It would be similar to the GAA and Dublin playing most of their games at Croker which the GAA hierarchy need for their attendance figure balance, but is an issue for the rest of the country GAA supporters. The biggest issue now is the capacity constraints for most clubs which is created by the facilities provided and the lack of any real government investment. Most clubs have done exceptionally well with what they have. I think the First Division is at a level that clubs can achieve or strive for especially with the new third tier division due. The popularity and ambition is another success for the game with the amount of interest in this new structure. Like most sports there will be areas that will traditionally struggle but the demand for participation is at a high level.

EalingGreen
18/03/2026, 12:36 PM
The Dublin City club balance is one of the great successes of the LOI and a feature of the league... ... The biggest issue now is the capacity constraints for most clubs which is created by the facilities provided and the lack of any real government investment. Most clubs have done exceptionally well with what they have.There is no doubt that the four Dublin clubs are doing extremely well, both on and off the field and esp within their capacity constraints, as you say.

But I can't help wondering why Dublin, which is a genuine "football city" with a (wealthy) population of 1.3m (+ 750k in Greater Dublin?), cannot support more clubs to a high level. Compare that eg with Belfast, which has four clubs in the Prem and another four in the Championship.

Granted, only two of those Prem clubs are completely f-t (the other two are hybrid, with ambitions towards f-t). While the four Champ clubs incl Newington, who don't have their own ground; Queens Uni, who are maybe the equivalent of UCD(?); and Dundela, who are a grand, historic club with potential, but whose pitch is too narrow to be permitted at top level, but cannot be widened. (H&W Welders are the fourth, and they have a terrific stadium/set-up).

Tbf, these four don't attract crowds to compare even with the LOI FD. Then again, the population of Belfast (city) is only 350k, with the wider area amounting to maybe 650k, with a number of other Senior clubs all within a close distance to the city.

From what I read, it seems there is a lot of talk of expanding LOI football to new areas which don't currently have any, but might there not be a lot of untapped potential in Dublin itself? Thereafter, were that to be exploited fully, then you could grow the game more easily from the centre out, than the other way round?


I think the First Division is at a level that clubs can achieve or strive for especially with the new third tier division due. The popularity and ambition is another success for the game with the amount of interest in this new structure.Getting the NL up to speed with the top two tiers has to be the aim, and can certainly help towards raising standards throughout. But depending on who/where the participating clubs are located, might there not the danger be that it is very lopsided, incl trying to "carry" provincial clubs, some of them completely new entities, which are a long way off competing with their fellow NL clubs, never mind aspiring to the FD?

nr637
18/03/2026, 2:40 PM
"But I can't help wondering why Dublin, which is a genuine "football city" with a (wealthy) population of 1.3m (+ 750k in Greater Dublin?), cannot support more clubs to a high level."Going down that route could end up like the The Argentine Primera División which is heavily concentrated in Buenos Aires and the Greater Buenos Aires area, which some call a metropolitan league!

EalingGreen
19/03/2026, 2:34 PM
"But I can't help wondering why Dublin, which is a genuine "football city" with a (wealthy) population of 1.3m (+ 750k in Greater Dublin?), cannot support more clubs to a high level."Going down that route could end up like the The Argentine Primera División which is heavily concentrated in Buenos Aires and the Greater Buenos Aires area, which some call a metropolitan league!It needn't go that far, or even as far as London - twice the population of ROI, but 7 x PL clubs, 6 x EFL clubs and a dozen(?) more within the immediate surrounding areas.

I'm merely making the point that there must be a lot of untapped potential in Dublin, yet the FAI/LOI appear to be concentrating more on developing clubs in the provinces, including places which have never had LOI football before. (I always think there must be a reason for that)

sbgawa
19/03/2026, 2:36 PM
welll you have 6 out of 20 if you include Bray and UCD with Rovers,Shels , Pats and Bohs but the problem with starting new clubs Dublin City, Cabinteely is they have no support and are reliant on investment which when it runs out there goes the club

sbgawa
19/03/2026, 2:52 PM
It needn't go that far, or even as far as London - twice the population of ROI, but 7 x PL clubs, 6 x EFL clubs and a dozen(?) more within the immediate surrounding areas.

I'm merely making the point that there must be a lot of untapped potential in Dublin, yet the FAI/LOI appear to be concentrating more on developing clubs in the provinces, including places which have never had LOI football before. (I always think there must be a reason for that)

Football is the number 1 sport by a country mile in London, at best footballl is fourth in Dublin in terms of support behind GAA football, Hurling and Rugby the crowds for the Dubs in football and hurling and Leinster for Rugby would be higgher than all the Dublin clubs together......maybe not every match but on balance

1983Hoop
19/03/2026, 3:06 PM
I have noticed when comparing crowd sizes between Dublin and Belfast cubs people tend to use the whole of the county of Dublin as a population against the population of Belfast City. Dublin City itself is just under 600k and this is traditionally up until 2009 where the 4 major clubs were based and mainly attracted their support from. Football is popular in the County of Dublin but would come under serious pressure from the GAA in North County Dublin and rugby in South County Dublin. There has been a huge influx of people into Dublin over the last 20 odd years or so and unfortunately the majority of people don’t seem that interested in the league speaking from personal experiences. There are many attractions competing for punters on a Friday evening in Dublin compared say to Belfast at 3pm on a Saturday. Facilities or lack of in 3 of the 4 grounds is a big turn off especially for say non Dubs and also at times the standard of the product on offer. I work with football fans from across the world and when I ask them have they gone to a game here the list above is usually the reason why they may have gone to 1 and no more or haven’t gone at all.

EalingGreen
19/03/2026, 3:54 PM
welll you have 6 out of 20 if you include Bray and UCD with Rovers,Shels , Pats and Bohs but the problem with starting new clubs Dublin City, Cabinteely is they have no support and are reliant on investment which when it runs out there goes the clubI'm not talking about "parachuting in" new clubs - that clearly doesn't work.

Admittedly from the perpective of someone with no direct knowledge of Dublin football, I was thinking more of already well-established, existing clubs which might, in time, aspire to Senior status.

EalingGreen
19/03/2026, 4:05 PM
Football is the number 1 sport by a country mile in London, at best footballl is fourth in Dublin in terms of support behind GAA football, Hurling and Rugby the crowds for the Dubs in football and hurling and Leinster for Rugby would be higgher than all the Dublin clubs together......maybe not every match but on balanceThat's one way of measuring it.

But "support" isn't binary i.e. a lot of people who attend Leinster or GAA games have also an interest in Football.

While your definition of "biggest" doesn't take account of the number of people who play the various codes - local, schools and colleges, youth football, LSC etc - plus the various other volunteers and administrators etc. In that respect, Football must be much closer to GAA and Rugby than you allow.

All of which is before you account for the the ability to pack out Lansdowne with 50k for ROI games, never mind "TV football fans" - Celtic, Man U, L'pool etc - who might conceivably be recruited to the joys of local football*.


* - Not just instead of, but as well.

Glen Of Aherlow
19/03/2026, 4:53 PM
It needn't go that far, or even as far as London - twice the population of ROI, but 7 x PL clubs, 6 x EFL clubs and a dozen(?) more within the immediate surrounding areas.

I'm merely making the point that there must be a lot of untapped potential in Dublin, yet the FAI/LOI appear to be concentrating more on developing clubs in the provinces, including places which have never had LOI football before. (I always think there must be a reason for that)

The LOI clubs currently in Dublin have a lot of untapped potential which , apart from Rovers , can only be realised through large investment in outdated stadiums with restricted capacities . Surely it’s better to realise the full potential of these clubs rather than introduce new clubs which will also be looking to draw from the same pot where finances are concerned

BigEars
19/03/2026, 5:46 PM
The LOI clubs currently in Dublin have a lot of untapped potential which , apart from Rovers , can only be realised through large investment in outdated stadiums with restricted capacities . Surely it’s better to realise the full potential of these clubs rather than introduce new clubs which will also be looking to draw from the same pot where finances are concerned

If any Intermediate/Junior Dublin clubs are ambitious enough, they'll have their chances to develop through the National League.

But there's no question we'd be better off as a league overall if we try to develop the big 4, Dublin clubs + UCD and Bray, than have 20 smaller clubs in Dublin all trying to operate at Senior level.

All that'd do is dilute resources and talent, so we don't have talented players playing with other talented players and most will end up with poor facilities.

Roones26
21/03/2026, 8:47 PM
Not 1 crowd within even a couple of hundred of 1000 this weekend in the first division

outspoken
21/03/2026, 9:59 PM
Yeah Longford crowd looked very small, disappointed given it was a nice day. Hopefully that win might draw a few out next week.

MoydowMonty
22/03/2026, 7:16 AM
Our 2 games at home to Wexford last season didn't even break 450. So 542 last night is an improvement. If we somehow went every home game getting minimum 500 at each I think that could be called a success.

legendz
22/03/2026, 11:49 AM
Leagues with most aerial play as per aerial duels per 90' ball in-play...
https://x.com/i/status/2035401054402273568

From comments elsewhere on here seems Treaty are joining the hoof ball brigade. Kerry's brand of football so far this evening is poor as well. VM don't even acknowledge First Division except for the promotion-relegation one off playoff. In terms of podcasts - LOI Central Premier focussed only.

First Division playoff is a lifeline but the division as a whole gets low national coverage.

Roones26
22/03/2026, 12:45 PM
Yeah Longford crowd looked very small, disappointed given it was a nice day. Hopefully that win might draw a few out next week.

I'd worry about some of these as well with the clubs counting all season ticket holders as attended whether they are there or not so I think the actual crowd is probably smaller ?