Greece V Republic of Ireland - Friday, 16th June 2023 - Euro 2024 Qualifier

[mypost]

Realistically we're out of the running for qualification after two games. It's all so predictable. The natural breaking point arrived at the of the disappointing Nations League campaign and the FAI should have acted.

Can anyone come up with a credible reason for now persisting with Kenny? Because there's nobody better available? Really? He's getting very well paid by international standards for what he does. Is there truly nobody more competent out there who'd accept the job?

It's was same old story again tonight. We're far, far too easy to play against don't even get the basics right. Kenny, as nice a man as he is - and I very much doubt his detractors feel any personal animus towards him - simply isn't up to the task. Something many of us had worked out within his first half-dozen games in charge.

You could have Klopp in charge of this lot, and we wouldn't qualify out of this group either. So we keep doing what we are doing, come what may.

The brits lost in Denmark to tonight. Presumably after spending 85 minutes with the bus firmly parked in it's own box. How many more points than us did they get? 0.

That's what some people want us to go back to. Pragmatic, turgid, unsuccessful muck, and another €3mn down the drain.

[pineapple stu]

For Monday so (which may be a point to split the thread)

Doherty is suspended. Probably just a one-match ban? Was stupid but not dangerous

Idah has to be dropped. We can't afford goal-shy forwards against Gibraltar at home.

I'd like to see Johnston start for his ability to run at weak teams (he didn't have much impact tonight though). Browne for Doherty?

I think we should be able to make minimum changes and run comfortably here. But they've only lost 3-0 at home to France and Holland; maybe they've shored up.

But really we need a convincing win on Monday - and we then play Holland and France in September...

[Insidetherock]

Things we may as well realise

Forget Josh Cullen.. he's too small.. he'll be out of the Burnley team after 3/4 games in the Premier League, and will make a good career for himself moving to different Championship teams

O Dowda isn't related to an international footballer

Give Mc Clean a huge send off Monday night, it'll be his last game

Obafemi needs to start with Ferguson. Parrot or Idah can replace Ferguson when he's wrecked.

Jason Knight shouldn't be playing international from League 1

[ontheotherhand]

Yeah fair play alright. Third consecutive loss with him in goal now. All one goal scorelines.

No Irish manager has ever won in Greece. No Irish manager has beaten Greece at all. The team is crap. The players are pub standard. Add in heat, and a cobbled together bunch of rusty players at the end of a long hard season, and all the ingredients were there for what happened, so they happened. Changing Kenny is not going to turn water into wine.

Are you seriously blaming Bazunu for tonight? Not sure why anyone would even entertain your other points with that as your opener.

[Yard of Pace]

Senior players coming out and talking in monotone clichés about the game, almost ignorant of how important a game it was we lost, and talking about Gibralter.....


The players have stopped playing for the manager.

That's it. Finito.

It's hardly difficult to see during the game. It was woeful. And they care. But not under Kenny. They don't care anymore.

[ontheotherhand]

Things we may as well realise

Forget Josh Cullen.. he's too small.. he'll be out of the Burnley team after 3/4 games in the Premier League, and will make a good career for himself moving to different Championship teams

O Dowda isn't related to an international footballer

Give Mc Clean a huge send off Monday night, it'll be his last game

Obafemi needs to start with Ferguson. Parrot or Idah can replace Ferguson when he's wrecked.

Jason Knight shouldn't be playing international from League 1

I don't necessarily disagree with you but if not Cullen then who? Even if he is only ever going to be a good Championship player, he's still better than any other option we have right now.

I wonder what they worked on in Turkey. Whatever it was, Greece punched them in the face early on and it went out the window. They looked completely lost tonight.

[Crosby87]

He took responsibility and said the job comes with criticism and he has to take it tonight.

[pineapple stu]

Random - possibly pointless - stat.

Kenny has taken one point from his first two games across his four qualifying campaigns.

Every campaign has basically been over before it began

[osarusan]

Yeah fair play alright. Third consecutive loss with him in goal now. All one goal scorelines.

No Irish manager has ever won in Greece. No Irish manager has beaten Greece at all. The team is crap. The players are pub standard. Add in heat, and a cobbled together bunch of rusty players at the end of a long hard season, and all the ingredients were there for what happened, so they happened. Changing Kenny is not going to turn water into wine.


You could have Klopp in charge of this lot, and we wouldn't qualify out of this group either. So we keep doing what we are doing, come what may.

The brits lost in Denmark to tonight. Presumably after spending 85 minutes with the bus firmly parked in it's own box. How many more points than us did they get? 0.

That's what some people want us to go back to. Pragmatic, turgid, unsuccessful muck, and another €3mn down the drain.

Truly, there is no delusion like mypost delusion.

[Crosby87]

Imagine being on the bench tonight?
On the plane home are you thinking "I can't get into THIS squad??"

[Razors left peg]

Imagine being on the bench tonight?
On the plane home are you thinking "I can't get into THIS squad??"

Jeff Hendrick, Alan Browne and Jamie McGrath will be fuming alright. How dare they not be picked

[weldoninhio]

I’d say f right off with that. We’ve a golden generation. But at the back, get rid of it. We aren’t Man City. Launch it away and try again. Keep passing, but not at the back

[weldoninhio]

Sam Smozich looking at the thinking he can’t get into the squad. Kenny needs to go now

[SkStu]

It’s weird how we’ve had both ends of the extrems of “this is the worst crop of players we’ve ever had” to “this is a golden generation” on here tonight LOL.

My opinion - it’s somewhere in between but we should absolutely be doing better (results and performances) with this crop than we are.

[pineapple stu]

Yup. Golden generation and not one of them can get their game in the Premier League (or Serie A or La Liga)? There's an oxymoron right there.

I had feared a performance like tonight. I don't even mind it - as a one-off. But it's too often now. I think there has to be more in the squad than that. Greece were deserving winners but weren't great really, especially up front

[ontheotherhand]

It's a golden generation in the same sense that Donald Trump has a golden toilet.

[placid casual]

There is no desire for 9/10ths of these players to go on and achieve anything on the international stage. They are well paid to sit on the bench in substandard english leagues. They've made it financially, reached their ceiling of ambition and now they can freewheel into football obscurity. Doesn't matter who is in the dugout.

[Dermobohs]

Yes, and John o Shea, splinter arse, coaching them in collecting wages from the bench!

[Eirambler]

I've been incredibly unimpressed with Gus Poyet as a manager whenever I've seen his teams play and hope that Kenny can get the better of him.

I think Kenny should probably be gone by now, or soon, but I would never in a million years want him replaced by Poyet.

And I think this presents us with a big chance. Poyet is absolutely no managerial genius. A hot-headed, tempermental spoofer, in my opinion.


Maybe the worst performance under Kenny,? Its rare you see a side so tactically out thought.

Outthought by Gus Poyet. Says it all really, doesn't it?


Yeah fair play alright. Third consecutive loss with him in goal now. All one goal scorelines.

No Irish manager has ever won in Greece. No Irish manager has beaten Greece at all. The team is crap. The players are pub standard. Add in heat, and a cobbled together bunch of rusty players at the end of a long hard season, and all the ingredients were there for what happened, so they happened. Changing Kenny is not going to turn water into wine.

Everyone and everything is the problem apart from the person who is actually the problem. Beyond parody.

(Not to mention a ridiculous shot at the one player who could walk off the park with his head held high.)

A fan of the north on the wind up perhaps. No other explanation for it.

[Predator]

It's clear that Stephen Kenny got his selection wrong last night as evidenced by his half-time sub and the early second-half changes. I'm a huge admirer of his optimistic defiance and how he insists that his teams try to impose their games on opponents no matter who or where, but it's not working. Is that down to tactical approach or does it go back to the relative lack of quality? Egan and Doherty said preparations couldn't have gone better...

A highly frustrating game to watch and it is hard to see where we are going with performances like that. A lot of people in the media have the knives out now and at this point it's hard to muster any sort of optimism. Limp defeats to Luxembourg, Armenia and Greece. Defeats to Portugal and France held up as moral victories to be celebrated ("look at how well we played") but you could argue we blew those games too (as Roy Keane famously said about the draw against the Netherlands in Amsterdam back in 2000).

What is going on here?

[Diggs246]

It's clear that Stephen Kenny got his selection wrong last night as evidenced by his half-time sub and the early second-half changes. I'm a huge admirer of his optimistic defiance and how he insists that his teams try to impose their games on opponents no matter who or where, but it's not working. Is that down to tactical approach or does it go back to the relative lack of quality? Egan and Doherty said preparations couldn't have gone better...

A highly frustrating game to watch and it is hard to see where we are going with performances like that. A lot of people in the media have the knives out now and at this point it's hard to muster any sort of optimism. Limp defeats to Luxembourg, Armenia and Greece. Defeats to Portugal and France held up as moral victories to be celebrated ("look at how well we played") but you could argue we blew those games too (as Roy Keane famously said about the draw against the Netherlands in Amsterdam back in 2000).

What is going on here?

Our manager isn't very good is he?
In relation to the players. I actually think we have a good keeper. Good defenders and a good attack unit. The midfield aren't the required level and that's tricky to say the least.
I actually would play Collins in midfield not because I want to but because I don't think we have a choice. That department needs to have better players

[JR89]

He has Monday to say goodbye, and a new manager will be in for the September games

The only thing I expect from him Monday, is give Mc Clean his hundredth cap, and let him finish up too

We've a young team, with potential, but this campaign is over already.. let a new guy prepare for maybe, just maybe.. absolutely poxxing a play off spot..

Highly doubt a new manager will be in for Septembers games and the closet you'll likely get to a new manager for those games would be John O'Shea as interim. Don't think FAI will get rid of him until September the earliest and can't see why any new manager would want to start his reign with games against France and Holland.

[EalingGreen]

No Irish manager has ever won in Greece. No Irish manager has beaten Greece at allEr, Peter Doherty (H) and Michael O'Neill (H & A) would disagree.

[EalingGreen]

The brits lost in Denmark to tonight. Presumably after spending 85 minutes with the bus firmly parked in it's own box. How many more points than us did they get? 0. I didn't see the ROI game, so can only go by the media comments and posts on this forum to conclude that theirs was a poor performance all round.

But even if NI were defensive for 75 minutes and all things considered, we couldn't argue with the result, ours was still a hugely encouraging performance (imo).

For we had a very raw, inexperienced and youthful team, drawn almost exclusively from the second or third tiers, or top tier reserves etc, as we struggled against a severte injury crisis. Yet the team still showed such enormous effort, discipline, tactical awareness and all-round enthusiasm, even against a far superior team, as to be heart-warming.

And while I was no great critic of Baraclough, a manager with a somewhat similar CV to Kenny, I happily admit that the difference last night was Michael O'Neill, a manager who at least knows what a bus looks like, how to drive it and where to park it.

[Stuttgart88]

I’ll start by saying that I never thought this was a must win game, it was a “must perform” game and for the table a “must avoid defeat“ game. I did feel it was a game where we should target a win though.

I liked the starting XI - though I’m an Idah sceptic and would have preferred Obafemi. I like the idea of O’Dowda at LWB even if I’ve never seen anything to suggest he can defend. I was glad he picked Smallbone.

I liked that it was a team selected to win the game. There was no undue respect paid to Greece.

But the selection was dependent on the best version of what we think these players can be turning up. Very few did. Idah was beyond ineffective. His inability to impose himself affected Smallbone’s ability to make an impact.

O’Dowda was a defensive liability - and one that Greece targeted. Even the normally reliable Cullen was sloppy and, worse, lacking courage. He’s usually brave on the ball. Our midfielders never took the ball on the half-turn and faced forward, their first touch almost always necessitated a predictable safe pass. When we did receive the ball and turn we often made ground comfortably.

Last night was probably THE bellwether game for Kenny. It was the perfect game to judge here we currently stand. Head to head against a direct peer, not a minnow and not an elite team… and we didn’t even ****ing turn up. It’s clear now the manager has left no proper imprint on this team whatsoever. I wished him well throughout but he’s had his chance and hasn’t taken it.

I wouldn’t have been too negative if we’d played well and drawn a game we deserved to win, but delivering such a bad performance at such a key time spells the end of SK for me.

[Yard of Pace]

Did anyone else find the manner in which Bazunu so quickly stated that the laser didn't have an impact on him to be a bit strange? Something in his tone.

And Cullen, Burnley's Mr. Consistency and their player of the year being so weak, error-prone and ineffectual....as I say, I think the dressing room is lost.

If the players are having a quiet revolt.....well at least that shows some sort of togetherness.....to try to look at things in some kind of positive light.....pffff....

[ontheotherhand]

I’ll start by saying that I never thought this was a must win game, it was a “must perform” game and for the table a “must avoid defeat“ game. I did feel it was a game where we should target a win though.

I liked the starting XI - though I’m an Idah sceptic and would have preferred Obafemi. I like the idea of O’Dowda at LWB even if I’ve never seen anything to suggest he can defend. I was glad he picked Smallbone.

I liked that it was a team selected to win the game. There was no undue respect paid to Greece.

But the selection was dependent on the best version of what we think these players can be turning up. Very few did. Idah was beyond ineffective. His inability to impose himself affected Smallbone’s ability to make an impact.

O’Dowda was a defensive liability - and one that Greece targeted. Even the normally reliable Cullen was sloppy and, worse, lacking courage. He’s usually brave on the ball. Our midfielders never took the ball on the half-turn and faced forward, their first touch almost always necessitated a predictable safe pass. When we did receive the ball and turn we often made ground comfortably.

Last night was probably THE bellwether game for Kenny. It was the perfect game to judge here we currently stand. Head to head against a direct peer, not a minnow and not an elite team… and we didn’t even ****ing turn up. It’s clear now the manager has left no proper imprint on this team whatsoever. I wished him well throughout but he’s had his chance and hasn’t taken it.

I wouldn’t have been too negative if we’d played well and drawn a game we deserved to win, but delivering such a bad performance at such a key time spells the end of SK for me.

Sums it up for me. It's not a great group of players but we need a manager who can get the most out of them. Kenny has had enough chances now. I was hopeful things would click for him as they did at Dundalk and to a lesser extent with the 21s but it's ended up more like his stint with Rovers. He's overwhelmed and out of ideas. The training camp in Turkey is what really seals it. Whatever they worked on was torn apart by Greece and there was no other plan. That's really poor. Ferguson was Kenny's lifeline and he failed to come up with any way to grasp it.

The game was a stark reminder of a few other things outside of Kenny's limitations. We are so reliant on Cullen who isn't anywhere near top level international class and might never be. If he has a bad game, as he did last night, we fall apart. Quite a few of the team are very over hyped as well. Collins was abysmal and it was nothing to do with tactics. He just made terrible decisions and you can see why he got dropped at Wolves. Still young of course but it really shows at times. Not writing him or others off but they have a long way to go. A better manager would certainly help but it won't fix everything.

Can any of the brighter football brains tell me why last night was so riddled with individual errors? Were the tactics so wrong that players didn't know what to do? Or did the players just all collectively fall apart under the pressure? Bit of both? I keep thinking that they were so focused on what they worked on in Turkey that they didn't know what to do when the Greeks tore that plan to pieces. The opening 10 minutes were brutal. A boxing ref might have called it off as we were being battered and had no answers at all.

[joey B]

So jealous of the Scots,2 goals in the last 2 minutes to beat Norway away and 9 from 9 in the group….

[tetsujin1979]

Had a look at some of the game stats on whoscored - https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1691146/Live/International-European-Championship-2023-Greece-Ireland The average positions map tells its own story
1670444136309112833

[weldoninhio]

Yup. Golden generation and not one of them can get their game in the Premier League (or Serie A or La Liga)? There's an oxymoron right there.

I had feared a performance like tonight. I don't even mind it - as a one-off. But it's too often now. I think there has to be more in the squad than that. Greece were deserving winners but weren't great really, especially up front

Yeah not one of them, bar Bazunu, Collins, Ferguson, Egan next season, Cullen next season. And the Championship isn’t some back water league. Where are the all conquering Greeks playing? The Luxembourgers? The Armenians? The Azerbaijanis? All top level leagues???

[pineapple stu]

Fair enough on Ferguson actually, but both Bazunu and Collins were dropped as not good enough, while next year isn't this year, so Cullen/Egan can hardly count.

The rest of your post is arguing a point I haven't made.

Bottom line - this isn't a golden generation. It's a young team by necessity, because we have a huge gap between about 24 and 29.

[CraftyToePoke]

I missed the post game interview - anything worth reporting from that?

He didn't ( thankfully ) resort to any of the, overhaul of an ideology / work in progress / the performance itself angles. He did try to shield behind the scoreline & that we were chasing an equaliser to the end, which although technically true, is also only arguable if you had not seen the game which had just transpired. He looked and sounded chastened, like a guy who picked a team to achieve an outcome which within minutes ( and a high speed assembly line of corners ) was clearly not about to happen. I think the expression would be s h i t got real for him.

[SkStu]

Yeah, I seen the media questioning / conference since and he looked completely defeated. Didnt offer any coherent answers to the questions he got and had no tangible explanations for the performance. Hard to see how his position remains tenable. He might get the rest of the campaign but it is not because he should be there.

[tetsujin1979]

Survey for fans who were in Athens
https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/VMHPQC6

[mark12345]

Yeah, I seen the media questioning / conference since and he looked completely defeated. Didnt offer any coherent answers to the questions he got and had no tangible explanations for the performance. Hard to see how his position remains tenable. He might get the rest of the campaign but it is not because he should be there.

I am a New England Patriots fan who has just watched Croatia lose the Euro Final. Having mentioned those two teams, believe me when I tell you I know what it takes to be a successful team. And believe me also when I tell you that we (Ireland) are a million miles away from being a team. We are a collection of individuals who really don't know what the f they are supposed to do in a green shirt.

[geysir]

On the red card, I thought Matt was hard done by. He nudged the greek player shoulder to shoulder, who then hit the deck in agony clutching his face. The greek players orchestrated a fury, the pony tailed one in particular was red card agressive.
The ref fell for the drama hook line and sinker.
https://youtu.be/j9G0MNgAP5Y?t=123

At worst a yellow card.

[elatedscum]

A lot to unpack about the game on Friday. I can’t get around the overall system and the decision to play 5 at the back. But I’ll come back to that.


You can go into team selection - and without being involved or knowing how fit people really were, I would have started Obafemi and O’Shea in place of Idah and Lenihan. Retrospectively - maybe I would have started Hendrick and McGrath instead of Molumby and Smallbone, McClean instead of O’Dowda,


Despite the Greeks clearly being the better side, it was an unnecessary penalty given away that cost us. Overall it was a dire performance - but the recurring theme, through good or bad performances is that we consistently make individual errors which cost goals. It’s really hard to legislate for Callum O’Dowda doing that - or Alan Browne doing the same against Scotland.


Bazunu had a good game, Collins too - scored one, nearly scored a screamer, gave the ball away poorly about three times and didn’t track once from it - but made key blocks and tackles and overall a good performance from him.


Doherty looked totally off the pace - he was always going to start with Coleman injured - and out best attacking moments came from him - but it was one of his worst performances.


Egan wasn’t the problem but wasn’t good either. Don’t think he’s as effective in the central slot. When it was Duffy in the middle and him on the left, I think he was much more consistent and his performances defensively have dipped since.


Lenihan doesn’t look like he belongs in an Ireland shirt. He seems like a really good guy - who you’d love to have around. The fact that we ended up playing him kinda shows we played the wrong system.


Initially the system was brought in for a few reasons. 1) we were leaking goals 2) we had a plethora of good centre half options - Duffy, Egan were first choice and we had Collins, O’Shea, Omobamidele and Manning arriving. 3) The system also made it easier to play both Doherty and Coleman who were considered our best players. 4) a good amount of those players were playing week in, week out in a 5 at the back


As for 1) we’ve started leaking goals again 2) and 3) When Duffy, Omobamidele, O’Shea (assuming he wasn’t looking himself?), Coleman, Manning aren’t being available or being selected, then the advantages of playing 5 at the back greatly diminish, purely from a selection perspective. 4) plenty of teams have moved on from playing 5 at the back, so far less of our squad are playing it now than they were 2 years ago.


The issue in general is that the opposition full backs are often left with acres of time and space, as was the case with Tsimikas. Smallbone was tucking inside to cover their holding midfielder and Doherty couldn’t push up, because Greece’s left winger was hugging the touchline. We always had either 1 or 2 centre halves free with nothing to do except mark space - meaning Ferguson, Idah and Smallbone in particular are running endlessly to cover spaces where gaps emerge. It just allows Greece to dictate the game in possession. If you go ahead and they feel they need to press you, it’s a different story - but they were happy just dropping into a shell when we didn’t have possession and we were losing possession in a condensed midfield. Our midfield was so poor - all four options: Cullen, Molumby, Smallbone and Knight. All championship/L1 lads who haven’t played in 6 weeks but not like we had many viable alternatives who weren’t in the same boat (of Browne, Hendrick, Sykes, McGrath - just McGrath I guess).


The other issue that’s emerged is, with that system, so much of the creative burden is placed on the wing backs, and for the most part, Doherty has delivered. Whereas on the left side, it’s been much more of a struggle - McClean at this stage in his career lacks the burst of acceleration or the creativity to really do damage from that position against international opposition. Stevens and Brady didn’t do much to warrant selection there. So with that in mind, I can see why O’Dowda was selected - and maybe against weak opposition he’s still a good option - but his defensively weaknesses were clear for everyone to see. I suspect Manning would have started if available and will be the starter come September. Never a red card for Doherty but whatever. Presumably a 3 match ban for a straight red card - which means he’s unavailable for France and Netherlands which is a huge loss.

Up top, there was an obvious selection dilemma, the most successful partnership we had available was Obafemi and Parrott (at a time when their careers were going better), followed by Idah and Parrott - who dovetailed really well from U17 onwards. Obviously, you had to play Ferguson but either way, you were gambling over who he’d work best with, without any time to develop a partnership. I suppose it’s a real shame Ogbene wasn’t available - because they began to develop something against France. The Idah selection along side him really didn’t pay off.


Not much has changed from a qualification perspective I don’t think, I still think the French and the Dutch will be #1 and #2. And we are, as we always were, dependent on getting through a playoff.

Nonetheless, it was perhaps the most deflating and poor performance in a long time - and it removes any positivity around the last window.


Hopefully a big win tonight and we all feel a little better till September…

[pineapple stu]

Bazunu had a good game, Collins too - scored one, nearly scored a screamer, gave the ball away poorly about three times and didn’t track once from it - but made key blocks and tackles and overall a good performance from him.

That was Collins setting Doherty up in injury time too; that could easily have been an assist for an equaliser. I think that game was why it's suggested Collins move up into midfield at times; he seems to make a great impact in attacking positions but can be suspect defensively at times

[mypost]

Are you seriously blaming Bazunu for tonight? Not sure why anyone would even entertain your other points with that as your opener.

I didn't blame him, I highlighted the inescapable fact, that we've lost the last 3 games with him in goal, and 4 of the last 5. I don't know how that fact can be disputed, but obviously it looks like it is.

Southampton lost their patience with him with 6 games to go, but apparently he still has to be playing for us, despite goal after goal after goal of every type flying past him. No amount of good saves can cover that up. But if that's enough to earn him motm, that tells you the strength in depth we have.


Yeah not one of them, bar Bazunu, Collins, Ferguson, Egan next season, Cullen next season. And the Championship isn’t some back water league. Where are the all conquering Greeks playing? The Luxembourgers? The Armenians? The Azerbaijanis? All top level leagues???

The championship is rotten, Division 2 in old money, a pub standard league that all of them are constantly trying to either get out of, or stay out of. Unfortunately most of our players are stuck in it, but not others. When was the last time a player from that league played for England? Germany? Spain?

I didn't expect anything from the Greece game, and all we got was a goal thanks to VAR, the first such goal in our history, and demonstrating again why it's essential at this level. I don't expect us to beat any opposition, bar the bottom seeds at home. So expecting us to win in Greek heat, with a team who haven't played a game in 6 weeks, was way beyond the capabilities of this team.

Of course, the default reaction after every game, is sack the manager. Yes literally after every single game, win lose or draw. This job must be the only football management job on earth, where the manager's head is demanded after winning his matches, let alone the ones he doesn't.

[zero]

I didn't blame him, I highlighted the inescapable fact, that we've lost the last 3 games with him in goal, and 4 of the last 5. I don't know how that fact can be disputed, but obviously it looks like it is.

Southampton lost their patience with him with 6 games to go, but apparently he still has to be playing for us, despite goal after goal after goal of every type flying past him. No amount of good saves can cover that up. But if that's enough to earn him motm, that tells you the strength in depth we have.



The championship is rotten, Division 2 in old money, a pub standard league that all of them are constantly trying to either get out of, or stay out of. Unfortunately most of our players are stuck in it, but not others. When was the last time a player from that league played for England? Germany? Spain?

I didn't expect anything from the Greece game, and all we got was a goal thanks to VAR, the first such goal in our history, and demonstrating again why it's essential at this level. I don't expect us to beat any opposition, bar the bottom seeds at home. So expecting us to win in Greek heat, with a team who haven't played a game in 6 weeks, was way beyond the capabilities of this team.

Of course, the default reaction after every game, is sack the manager. Yes literally after every single game, win lose or draw. This job must be the only football management job on earth, where the manager's head is demanded after winning his matches, let alone the ones he doesn't.

we've been winning matches?

it wasn't hot at all by the way.

edit: hadn't realised you're a complete kennyite til i checked your other posts.

[pineapple stu]

Mypost is gone through the looking glass at this stage.

[Trequartista20]

Now the Championship is a pub league too?

[pineapple stu]

Now the Championship is a pub league too?
Of course. A league "that all of them are constantly trying to either get out of, or stay out of"

You know - like every other league in the world...

Don't feed the gondolas is all I can say

[tetsujin1979]

Interesting
1669773979626741760

[weldoninhio]

I didn't blame him, I highlighted the inescapable fact, that we've lost the last 3 games with him in goal, and 4 of the last 5. I don't know how that fact can be disputed, but obviously it looks like it is.

Southampton lost their patience with him with 6 games to go, but apparently he still has to be playing for us, despite goal after goal after goal of every type flying past him. No amount of good saves can cover that up. But if that's enough to earn him motm, that tells you the strength in depth we have.



The championship is rotten, Division 2 in old money, a pub standard league that all of them are constantly trying to either get out of, or stay out of. Unfortunately most of our players are stuck in it, but not others. When was the last time a player from that league played for England? Germany? Spain?

I didn't expect anything from the Greece game, and all we got was a goal thanks to VAR, the first such goal in our history, and demonstrating again why it's essential at this level. I don't expect us to beat any opposition, bar the bottom seeds at home. So expecting us to win in Greek heat, with a team who haven't played a game in 6 weeks, was way beyond the capabilities of this team.

Of course, the default reaction after every game, is sack the manager. Yes literally after every single game, win lose or draw. This job must be the only football management job on earth, where the manager's head is demanded after winning his matches, let alone the ones he doesn't.

You mean except Sam Johnstone? Wilf Zaha? Jay Bothroyd? David Nugent? David James? Kevin Philips? Michael Gray? Stuart Pearce? Steve Bull? Mark Woods? Mark Hately?

[tetsujin1979]

Southgate definitely named someone in a squad from the Championship in recent years, can't think who it was though

[Diggs246]

Philips when Leeds where in the championship?

[ColourfulPeanut]

Southgate definitely named someone in a squad from the Championship in recent years, can't think who it was though
Phillips made his debut for England after Leeds were promoted but a month before he played for them in the Premier League. This was due to the Premier League kicking off in September due to COVID. Not sure if that counts?

Sam Johnstone has definitely been in a squad whilst with West Brom in the Championship, not sure if he was capped during that time

[tetsujin1979]

I might be thinking of Zaha, in weldoninho's list.
Phillips was called up in September 2020, Leeds had been promoted, but he hadn't played a premier league game, due to the delayed start to the season because of COVID, when he made his debut against Denmark

[zero]

Not sure there's much value in us trying to disprove that the championship is a 'pub league'.

It's a very competitive league with plenty money at stake, most games televised and high attendances etc. Scotland, for example, had 4 players from the championship starting when they beat Spain 2-0 in March (Gunn, Porteus, Dykes, Hanley). Most good young English players will inevitably end up in the PL given that you need 8 homegrown in the squad.