Greece V Republic of Ireland - Friday, 16th June 2023 - Euro 2024 Qualifier

[Stuttgart88]

His set-piece deliveries alone are probably better than anyone in the squad. His best set pieces are brilliant but I've lost count of the number of games I've come away totally frustrated with inaccurate corners and crosses from frees. At club level he seems more consistent in his set piece delivery than for us.

[pineapple stu]

Anyone else think Rory Gaffney should be called up?
Didn't really stand out in the European run last year, did he? Rovers' big problem in the Conference Groups was how toothless up front they were. I think he's down the pecking order for me. That he's even worth mentioning just highlights how bad our options up front are, sadly. (Ferguson aside taken as read by now)

[Stuttgart88]

I don't think Rovers had much of the ball in the group stages. He scored a crucial goal in the qualifiers and nearly took the head off a guy at Tallaght!

I just think he's in great form at the moment and wouldn't be out of place on the bench, versus Parrott for example.

[Razors left peg]

Didn't really stand out in the European run last year, did he? Rovers' big problem in the Conference Groups was how toothless up front they were. I think he's down the pecking order for me. That he's even worth mentioning just highlights how bad our options up front are, sadly. (Ferguson aside taken as read by now)

Put any of our other "bad options" as you say into the LOI and they would instantly become the best player by a country mile.

[pineapple stu]

They would, for sure.

There's an argument there that he's in form at least and that may be worth something, even in training. But is he really any better than he was in his English league days, which were mostly spent in the fourth tier? That's a long way off the required standard

Ronan Coughlan might bang in one against Gibraltar now based on his recent form!

[ontheotherhand]

I don't think Rovers had much of the ball in the group stages. He scored a crucial goal in the qualifiers and nearly took the head off a guy at Tallaght!

I just think he's in great form at the moment and wouldn't be out of place on the bench, versus Parrott for example.

Gaffney was very good against the "weaker" sides we played but I'm not sure he's a better option than Parrot as much as I love him. His pace stands out in the LoI but I don't think it would at higher levels. I'd have Jack Byrne in the Ireland team ahead of him tbh. Still hits a better corner than anybody else we have and he's back playing at the level he was before covid and the back injury. Did a job against Bulgaria so I'd be happy seeing him come off the bench against Gibraltar if we needed a bit of creativity. Hopefully Johnston gives us something we've lacked against the poorer teams who park the bus.

[elatedscum]

Gaffney was very good against the "weaker" sides we played but I'm not sure he's a better option than Parrot as much as I love him. His pace stands out in the LoI but I don't think it would at higher levels. I'd have Jack Byrne in the Ireland team ahead of him tbh. Still hits a better corner than anybody else we have and he's back playing at the level he was before covid and the back injury. Did a job against Bulgaria so I'd be happy seeing him come off the bench against Gibraltar if we needed a bit of creativity. Hopefully Johnston gives us something we've lacked against the poorer teams who park the bus.

I was at the Pat’s / Derry match on Monday. Chris Forrester ****ing hell. I would love to see how he’d handle a call up. He’s just different. He moves differently to everyone else. I know the ship has sailed but he’s so so good.

[ontheotherhand]

I was at the Pat’s / Derry match on Monday. Chris Forrester ****ing hell. I would love to see how he’d handle a call up. He’s just different. He moves differently to everyone else. I know the ship has sailed but he’s so so good.

When he's on song he's top class. You can see how he was tipped for even bigger things than Peterborough when he was running the show for them.

If ever there was a window to call up Forrester or Byrne or the likes of Farrugia you'd think it's this one. They are in season, bang in form and we are playing Gibraltar. They would be well able to do their stuff.

[Razors left peg]

When he's on song he's top class. You can see how he was tipped for even bigger things than Peterborough when he was running the show for them.

If ever there was a window to call up Forrester or Byrne or the likes of Farrugia you'd think it's this one. They are in season, bang in form and we are playing Gibraltar. They would be well able to do their stuff.

But whats the point longer term in calling them up against Gibraltar? Its been discussed to death for years but the LOI just isnt of a standard that a player can play there and be a regular call up to the International team. The majority of the players that leave to England go to L1 to mixed success. I dont see anyone calling for Dason Devoy to get a call up right now, but if he was still in the LOI there would probably be a few saying hes worth a look. Jack Byrne is brilliant, I love him and its frustrates me that he wasnt able to kick on his career when he left the LOI, but the fact is when he was called up for Ireland squads under different managers he didnt get much of a look in. I've speculated plenty of times in the past that he probably didnt look as good in training when up against the likes of Hendrick and Hourihane.

This window is all about the Greece game. Adding token call ups for Gibraltar is completely pointless and an unnecessary distraction in the squad. We also cant take Gibraltar lightly, we just about scraped by them under Mick, so we need to be going in with the attitude of putting a full team out against them and taking care of them early in the game.

[nigel-harps1954]

Dawson Devoy probably a poor example. He was only ever really a player with good potential in the LOI, and still is a player with potential, to be fair to him. The likes of Jack Byrne and Chris Forrester are generational players, and probably will go down in years to come as one of the big shames that Forrester was never capped. On his day is just sublime.

[Razors left peg]

Dawson Devoy probably a poor example. He was only ever really a player with good potential in the LOI, and still is a player with potential, to be fair to him. The likes of Jack Byrne and Chris Forrester are generational players, and probably will go down in years to come as one of the big shames that Forrester was never capped. On his day is just sublime.

Forrester and Byrne are brilliant, but both have also failed to kick on at higher levels. I wouldnt trust either at international level at this stage of their career.

Devoy was an u21 international, but lets say Mandroiu instead. Hes actually had a pretty good season in L1 but I dont see any calls for him to get call up yet, but he was probably on the fringes of it when playin LOI. Mandroiu still has the potential to kick on and might be good enough for international football yet, but we all would agree he has to show more, which is what Byrne and Forrester were unfortunately not capable of doing.

[pineapple stu]

Yeah, even Forrester only played League One as well (plus a disastrous spell at Aberdeen, which probably isn't much better)

[Yard of Pace]

Dawson Devoy probably a poor example. He was only ever really a player with good potential in the LOI, and still is a player with potential, to be fair to him. The likes of Jack Byrne and Chris Forrester are generational players, and probably will go down in years to come as one of the big shames that Forrester was never capped. On his day is just sublime.

I'd consider someone like Paddy McCarthy never being capped as being far more regrettable than Chrissy Forrester, I have to say.

[ontheotherhand]

But whats the point longer term in calling them up against Gibraltar? Its been discussed to death for years but the LOI just isnt of a standard that a player can play there and be a regular call up to the International team. The majority of the players that leave to England go to L1 to mixed success. I dont see anyone calling for Dason Devoy to get a call up right now, but if he was still in the LOI there would probably be a few saying hes worth a look. Jack Byrne is brilliant, I love him and its frustrates me that he wasnt able to kick on his career when he left the LOI, but the fact is when he was called up for Ireland squads under different managers he didnt get much of a look in. I've speculated plenty of times in the past that he probably didnt look as good in training when up against the likes of Hendrick and Hourihane.

This window is all about the Greece game. Adding token call ups for Gibraltar is completely pointless and an unnecessary distraction in the squad. We also cant take Gibraltar lightly, we just about scraped by them under Mick, so we need to be going in with the attitude of putting a full team out against them and taking care of them early in the game.

The point is to win the game. It can't all be about long term development and that's coming from someone who thinks we are years away from being properly competitive. We know we will have the ball against them and we've consistently struggled in those scenarios because we lack any real creative players. We need players who can link up with Ferguson to get the most out of him. Picture it being 0-0 with 15 to go and you look at the bench.....who do you pick to get on the ball and do something magic?

Nobody was or is mentioning Devoy because he's nowhere near Byrne or Forrester's level. They are both playing in a league well below their ability for various reasons. You might be right that Byrne didn't impress in training but it would be odd that he got on the field multiple times in that scenario.

But look, Kenny agrees with you so you must be on to something. :)

[Razors left peg]

The point is to win the game. It can't all be about long term development and that's coming from someone who thinks we are years away from being properly competitive. We know we will have the ball against them and we've consistently struggled in those scenarios because we lack any real creative players. We need players who can link up with Ferguson to get the most out of him. Picture it being 0-0 with 15 to go and you look at the bench.....who do you pick to get on the ball and do something magic?

Nobody was or is mentioning Devoy because he's nowhere near Byrne or Forrester's level. They are both playing in a league well below their ability for various reasons. You might be right that Byrne didn't impress in training but it would be odd that he got on the field multiple times in that scenario.

But look, Kenny agrees with you so you must be on to something. :)

I said that is exactly about winning the game and not about handing out token caps. Picking players playing at higher standards gives us the best chance to do that.

[ontheotherhand]

I said that is exactly about winning the game and not about handing out token caps. Picking players playing at higher standards gives us the best chance to do that.

Right, but I'm not saying he would be useful as a token cap....I'm saying he or someone like him would be useful in the type of game we will face against Gibraltar. We could pick all the highest level players we have and not have the right ones out there to do the job. Sure some of them have barely played a game this season. Any of the top LoI players are capable of playing against a team whose best players play for Lincoln Red Imps.

Anyway, my point was that NOW would be the time to call up the likes of Byrne or Forrester when our main players are in end of season mode and the LoI is in full swing. I'm not saying it should happen all the time. I'm not even complaining that it isn't happening to be honest. I think the squad makes reasonable sense although it is short on creativity.

That said I'd take Jack Byrne at the height of his powers over Jamie McGrath any day of the week but particularly after McGrath's season has ended.

[nigel-harps1954]

Forrester and Byrne are brilliant, but both have also failed to kick on at higher levels. I wouldnt trust either at international level at this stage of their career.

Devoy was an u21 international, but lets say Mandroiu instead. Hes actually had a pretty good season in L1 but I dont see any calls for him to get call up yet, but he was probably on the fringes of it when playin LOI. Mandroiu still has the potential to kick on and might be good enough for international football yet, but we all would agree he has to show more, which is what Byrne and Forrester were unfortunately not capable of doing.

I think you'll find I was also posting on here that I didn't think Mandriou was good enough either, when he got his move to England!

I also think it's fair to say it wasn't purely footballing reasons as to why neither Byrne or Forrester kicked on from League One level.

[Razors left peg]

Right, but I'm not saying he would be useful as a token cap....I'm saying he or someone like him would be useful in the type of game we will face against Gibraltar. We could pick all the highest level players we have and not have the right ones out there to do the job. Sure some of them have barely played a game this season. Any of the top LoI players are capable of playing against a team whose best players play for Lincoln Red Imps.

Anyway, my point was that NOW would be the time to call up the likes of Byrne or Forrester when our main players are in end of season mode and the LoI is in full swing. I'm not saying it should happen all the time. I'm not even complaining that it isn't happening to be honest. I think the squad makes reasonable sense although it is short on creativity.

That said I'd take Jack Byrne at the height of his powers over Jamie McGrath any day of the week but particularly after McGrath's season has ended.

I suppose if we are comparing like for like Byrne and Forrester would be in the Smallbone role, who I would take over them every day of the week. I don't like arguing against those 2 players either by the way because like I've said I'm a big fan of both, but also with both its a disappointment of what might have been given their talents. I'm also not going to argue that McGrath should be ahead of either, that's the spot where they could squeeze in, but even then I'd have others like Luca Connell ahead

[ontheotherhand]

I suppose if we are comparing like for like Byrne and Forrester would be in the Smallbone role, who I would take over them every day of the week. I don't like arguing against those 2 players either by the way because like I've said I'm a big fan of both, but also with both its a disappointment of what might have been given their talents. I'm also not going to argue that McGrath should be ahead of either, that's the spot where they could squeeze in, but even then I'd have others like Luca Connell ahead

Yeah all fair enough. Like I said I'm not raging they aren't included. I was surprised Jack wasn't involved in the training camp but not surprised he wasn't involved in the squad. He's flying though and it's great to see him back to those levels. Also great to see Forrester playing well and enjoying himself.

[Kingdom]

I also think it's fair to say it wasn't purely footballing reasons as to why neither Byrne or Forrester kicked on from League One level.

Unfortunately this is almost certainly the case with Git. He has a comfort zone (in the nicest possible way) and once he's happy then he can shine.
That begs the question which always circles the drain but never quite drops - and it's relevant when you think about someone like Keith Fahey - is whether a certain type of player needs to be playing in England to merit a call-up?

[LurcherLover]

Anyone of our senior squad would be running the show week in week out if they were playing LOI. I know quite a few lads who play LOI and they would say the same. Also, the point above about training is relevant, if you watched the LOI lads train with our senior squad you would understand within 2 mins why they are not called up as they would stand out a mile. Why would you weaken our squad for a competitive game just because its Gilbratar?

Also if the lads from the Championship etc who were speculated to get called up/go to a training camp were playing in the LOI, they would also be running the show every game. I'm taking about the likes of Szmodics, Azaz etc.

[ontheotherhand]

Anyone of our senior squad would be running the show week in week out if they were playing LOI. I know quite a few lads who play LOI and they would say the same. Also, the point above about training is relevant, if you watched the LOI lads train with our senior squad you would understand within 2 mins why they are not called up as they would stand out a mile. Why would you weaken our squad for a competitive game just because its Gilbratar?

Also if the lads from the Championship etc who were speculated to get called up/go to a training camp were playing in the LOI, they would also be running the show every game. I'm taking about the likes of Szmodics, Azaz etc.

Farrugia was in the training camp and Byrne already played for the national side so multiple international managers seem to disagree.

Azaz played in League 1 by the way. Same as Danny Mandroiu who came fresh from doing well but not really running any shows in the LoI. Very good player but not the best in the league at any point.

[LurcherLover]

Farrugia was in the training camp and Byrne already played for the national side so multiple international managers seem to disagree.

Azaz played in League 1 by the way. Same as Danny Mandroiu who came fresh from doing well but not really running any shows in the LoI. Very good player but not the best in the league at any point.

Exactly, and they were obviously nowhere near the standard to get a game for the snr squad apart from Byrne who got his chance and hasn't had a look in since.

I know Azaz plays in L1 buts hes a Championship standard player. If you don't think that the likes of Smallbone, Cullen, Molumby and even Szmodics or Azaz wouldn't be absolutely running the show every week in the LOI and that the likes of Farrugia etc bring any strength to the squad, then I don't know what to tell you really.

[ontheotherhand]

Exactly, and they were obviously nowhere near the standard to get a game for the snr squad apart from Byrne who got his chance and hasn't had a look in since.

I know Azaz plays in L1 buts hes a Championship standard player. If you don't think that the likes of Smallbone, Cullen, Molumby and even Szmodics or Azaz wouldn't be absolutely running the show every week in the LOI and that the likes of Farrugia etc bring any strength to the squad, then I don't know what to tell you really.

Not sure you're actually reading my posts? Where did I argue that the players you mentioned would have any impact on the LoI, positive or negative? If Azaz was a Championship standard player he'd play in the Championship surely?

So strange to me how Irish football fans respond when there is any light reference to the LoI in the context of the national side.

All I said was that Jack Byrne would be useful in the type of game we will have against Gibraltar. If you want to say we have better players who can do what Byrne can do that's fine. It doesn't have to turn into an analysis of the entire LoI. I do wonder what the pecking order is for attacking midfielders. McGrath doesn't convince me. Would Azaz, Ronan, and Moran be just behind Smallbone? Personally I think Byrne would be useful in the squad but of course there are other options.

[Eirambler]

I think Byrne has had more than enough opportunities to show that he's any more than a League of Ireland standard player at this point. He hasn't taken any of them, it's long past time to move on.

Honestly the only League of Ireland player I'd have made any kind of case for in terms of the senior squad for this window would have been Curtis. He's the one who just might have the potential to step up to that level in future, maybe. It might have made sense to take him to Bristol for the experience and to see first hand the standard that he will need to get to in order to make it at a high level.

[ontheotherhand]

I think Byrne has had more than enough opportunities to show that he's any more than a League of Ireland standard player at this point. He hasn't taken any of them, it's long past time to move on.

Honestly the only League of Ireland player I'd have made any kind of case for in terms of the senior squad for this window would have been Curtis. He's the one who just might have the potential to step up to that level in future, maybe. It might have made sense to take him to Bristol for the experience and to see first hand the standard that he will need to get to in order to make it at a high level.

That's all been covered on the Jack Byrne thread and doesn't really need to be discussed on a match thread here. Suffice to say he's already played well at higher levels. Football isn't as simple as you are suggesting. Luck, injuries, mental states and a host of other things come into the picture.

Whether people like it or not, there have been, are and will be LoI players in the pecking order. They'll be in standby squads and training camps as we've seen with Farrugia recently. It's how things are right now. We have very limited options in certain areas. Again, we don't have many players who can unlock stubborn defenses. We've been so poor in those types of games. Who would you have ahead of Byrne in a creative role? That's a more interesting discussion. Saying Cullen or current starters are better players is a bit redundant. Of course they are. They aren't the same type of player though. Johnston might be the man for the job hopefully. At least he can take a few players out of the game. And again, I'm not even saying Byrne should have been included. I'm saying this would have been the right window for it and that I'd have him ahead of options like Farrugia and Gaffney. It's absolutely understandable that he isn't in there.

I'm not sure which Curtis you mean by the way but if you think 17 year old Sam Curtis is performing at a higher level than Byrne, Forrester or indeed quite a few others then......ok. He's also a defender.

[Eirambler]

That's all been covered on the Jack Byrne thread and doesn't really need to be discussed on a match thread here. Suffice to say he's already played well at higher levels. Football isn't as simple as you are suggesting. Luck, injuries, mental states and a host of other things come into the picture.

I'm not sure which Curtis you mean by the way but if you think 17 year old Sam Curtis is performing at a higher level than Byrne, Forrester or indeed quite a few others then......ok. He's also a defender.

There's always an excuse when it comes to Jack.

Of the players you mention, Sam Curtis is the only one with even a remote chance of having a sustained international career. I'd have liked to see him being brought to Bristol to be part of the setup and see what the standard is that he needs to aspire to. He's not going to see that at St. Pats. I wouldn't have taken him to Turkey though as he's better off with the Under 21s for the time being. But he could have gone to the Bristol camp rather than wasting a spot on Farrugia.

[ontheotherhand]

There's always an excuse when it comes to Jack.

Of the players you mention, Sam Curtis is the only one with even a remote chance of having a sustained international career. I'd have liked to see him being brought to Bristol to be part of the setup and see what the standard is that he needs to aspire to. He's not going to see that at St. Pats. I wouldn't have taken him to Turkey though as he's better off with the Under 21s for the time being. But he could have gone to the Bristol camp rather than wasting a spot on Farrugia.

You're having a pretty different conversation here. Sam Curtis will get a chance in about 3 years. He's a bit behind Farrugia as it stands. Those who watch the league saw that only a few weeks ago. Either way, neither would be very useful against Gibraltar.

[Eirambler]

I think it's you that's having the different conversation, I never mentioned playing him against Gibraltar. In fact I specifically said I'd only have had him in the first training camp for the experience he'd get.

If the requirement for a League of Ireland to be involved with the Ireland seniors is that they need to be useful in a competitive game then the honest answer is that there is currently the correct number of League of Ireland players in the squad - zero.

But in someone like Curtis you actually have a player in the League who may well be good enough to be a starter for Ireland down the line. So I'd be prioritising a place in a training squad for him over lads in their mid and late 20s who we know will never be good enough, even if they're better than him at this point in time.

[ontheotherhand]

I think it's you that's having the different conversation, I never mentioned playing him against Gibraltar. In fact I specifically said I'd only have had him in the first training camp for the experience he'd get.

If the requirement for a League of Ireland to be involved with the Ireland seniors is that they need to be useful in a competitive game then the honest answer is that there is currently the correct number of League of Ireland players in the squad - zero.

But in someone like Curtis you actually have a player in the League who may well be good enough to be a starter for Ireland down the line. So I'd be prioritising a place in a training squad for him over lads in their mid and late 20s who we know will never be good enough, even if they're better than him at this point in time.

This thread is about the Greece and Gibraltar games.

[LurcherLover]

This thread is about the Greece and Gibraltar games.

The last two pages are you arguing for Byrne & Farrugia's inclusion in this squad.

[sadloserkid]

The last two pages are you arguing for Byrne & Farrugia's inclusion in this squad.

The squad for the Greece and Gibraltar games? ?

[ontheotherhand]

The last two pages are you arguing for Byrne & Farrugia's inclusion in this squad.

Whatever about Byrne, I haven't once argued for Farrugia's inclusion for these games. You're not reading the posts.

What I've said:

"And again, I'm not even saying Byrne should have been included. I'm saying this would have been the right window for it and that I'd have him ahead of options like Farrugia and Gaffney. It's absolutely understandable that he isn't in there."

"Sam Curtis will get a chance in about 3 years. He's a bit behind Farrugia as it stands. Those who watch the league saw that only a few weeks ago. Either way, neither would be very useful against Gibraltar."\

[tetsujin1979]

Greek squad was announced two days ago
1667134879606231040
Breakdown of the squad on Twitter
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greece_national_football_team#Players

[tetsujin1979]

And the Gibraltar squad
1667124486083100672
Squad breakdown: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibraltar_national_football_team#Players

[ontheotherhand]

And the Gibraltar squad
1667124486083100672
Squad breakdown: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibraltar_national_football_team#Players

Good to see a bit of LoI representation after all!

One of their defenders is fully retired and still getting picked. Not sure I've seen that before.

[Razors left peg]

All the Cannon talk a bit of a distraction from probably biggest week of Kenny's tenure so far. 4 points an absolute must from the 2 games.

For the Greek game I'd probably go with this...

Baz
Doherty Collins Egan O'Shea O'Dowda
Cullen Molumby Smallbone
Idah Ferguson

Idah probably the only controversial call but his ability to hold up the ball away from home could be vital. Would allow Ferguson to drop deeper at times too like he does for Brighton .

[SkStu]

That’s a team I can fully get behind.

[backstothewall]

We've had a real result with the weather if the forecast is anything like accurate. They're predicting 22°C in Athens on Friday night.

[pineapple stu]

25-27 on yr (https://www.yr.no/en/forecast/hourly-table/2-264371/Greece/Attica/Nomarch%C3%ADa%20Ath%C3%ADnas/Athens?i=4)?

[Diggs246]

All the Cannon talk a bit of a distraction from probably biggest week of Kenny's tenure so far. 4 points an absolute must from the 2 games.

For the Greek game I'd probably go with this...

Baz
Doherty Collins Egan O'Shea O'Dowda
Cullen Molumby Smallbone
Idah Ferguson

Idah probably the only controversial call but his ability to hold up the ball away from home could be vital. Would allow Ferguson to drop deeper at times too like he does for Brighton .

We really have to win. So swap Idah for obefemi.
Obefemi has that spark to creat or score a goal out of nothing Idah doesn't have that in his locker

[Razors left peg]

We really have to win. So swap Idah for obefemi.
Obefemi has that spark to creat or score a goal out of nothing Idah doesn't have that in his locker

My thinking is that Idah might be a better foil for Ferguson, Obafemis pace off the bench could also be important. That said if Obafemi does start I wouldnt be upset, he has played very little football in last few months though.

I also think we need to realize that a draw in Greece is a really good result, very few teams go there and win.

[LurcherLover]

My thinking is that Idah might be a better foil for Ferguson, Obafemis pace off the bench could also be important. That said if Obafemi does start I wouldnt be upset, he has played very little football in last few months though.

I also think we need to realize that a draw in Greece is a really good result, very few teams go there and win.

It's not a good result at all. As far as qualifying is concerned, it's a bad result. No matter what way you look at it.

[Diggs246]

But a draw is again surrendering qualification in round 2.
I know it's incredible difficult to win in Athens but we have to pick the team and also have the attitude to win.
We are were we are, but we can t pretend France and Holland aren't there. We ain't going to Germany if we don't win, so let's try to win. Kenny of course will be worried about his job if we lose, so unfortunately that might influence his thinking.

[tetsujin1979]

I've been thinking about the result a bit. We can expected one, or both, of France and the Netherlands to get three points in Athens. If we want to keep pace with them, we have to match their results against Greece and Gibraltar.
So a win is a must.

[pineapple stu]

It's not a good result at all. As far as qualifying is concerned, it's a bad result. No matter what way you look at it.
I'd be happy with a draw if it's progress on performances against Luxembourg, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Malta, etc

It would be a real blow for qualification but I think we have to be realistic about where we are in the greater scheme of things. I'm not sure you can set an unreasonable target (qualification from this group) and be disappointed if it doesn't happen.

There's few enough in the Greek squad you'd be worried about in fairness and their recent results haven't been great - but they can say the exact same about us

[SkStu]

It's not a good result at all. As far as qualifying is concerned, it's a bad result. No matter what way you look at it.

I'll flip that a little bit. A win away to Greece would be an excellent result and is also somewhat achievable.

[zero]

I've been thinking about the result a bit. We can expected one, or both, of France and the Netherlands to get three points in Athens. If we want to keep pace with them, we have to match their results against Greece and Gibraltar.
So a win is a must.

Kenny has failed nearly every audition so far and sadly I don't see that changing. Ferguson is the one element that might affect that but....

2-0 Greece.

[LurcherLover]

I'd be happy with a draw if it's progress on performances against Luxembourg, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Malta, etc

It would be a real blow for qualification but I think we have to be realistic about where we are in the greater scheme of things. I'm not sure you can set an unreasonable target (qualification from this group) and be disappointed if it doesn't happen.

There's few enough in the Greek squad you'd be worried about in fairness and their recent results haven't been great - but they can say the exact same about us

I agree to an extent. Is a draw in Greece really that much progress? I know they're tough to beat but I wouldn't necessarily look at drawing with them as making much progress. Also, just expecting better performances than the ones against the teams mentioned above is not progress, Stu. Those were some of the worse performances I've seen from an Ireland team to date, so it couldn't get much worse.

I do see where you're coming from but we really need to be getting a result in Greece if we want to be even remotely challenging for a playoff spot and the only way I'l see progress is if we are challenging for these spots.

I think Kenny knows that too. No one is really expecting us to go to France or Holland to get a result but they're expecting one in Greece, and rightly so in my opinion.

[pineapple stu]

We certainly need to be getting a win if we're going to qualify; no arguments there.

But we've a poor away record against this level of side; Greece are very slightly ahead of us on the Elo ratings and with home advantage eloratings.net is giving us a 35% chance and Greece 65%.

I think putting in a good shift and getting a draw in Greece would be progress - arguably it shouldn't be progress and I'd agree with you there, but it's a slightly different point. We wouldn't have dropped so low we'd see it as progress, but here we are sadly

I don't really know what to expect out of it at all tbh. June is always a funny month for internationals