Greece V Republic of Ireland - Friday, 16th June 2023 - Euro 2024 Qualifier

[Trequartista20]

A bizarre squad, Manning or no Manning. Keane (12) Cannon (8), Szmodics (7) - 27 Championship goals ignored for Parrott and Idah's combined 7. How does that make any sense? Omobamidele dropped but Scales and McGrath selected.

It goes some way to explaining why every game seems a referendum on Stephen Kenny.

The McGrath over Szmodics selection for one, seems bizarre. McGrath is a player deemed surplus to requirements at crisis-stricken League One Wigan, with the club whom he was on loan last season, Dundee Utd, having just been relegated to the Scottish Championship.

Rhetorical point, but how many Championship clubs of the standing of Blackburn would be interested in signing McGrath?

The Manning and Cannon situations seems troubling. It's very difficult to accept their omissions at face value.

All three of our goalkeepers are on the bench at club level. Why no O'Leary?

Cullen is the only true number 6 in the squad. Why no Coventry? He was able to make room for Taylor.

Ebosele and McNally being left out also seems strange.

These are just a few early thoughts about that selection.

[Stuttgart88]

Sykes included as RWB cover looks odd too...

[Eirambler]

Sykes included as RWB cover looks odd too...

Yeah, that's odd. He has turned away a natural right back in McNamara in favour of two midfielders - Sykes and Browne. I thought Browne looked very uncomfortable at right wing back last summer, it seems very strange not to cover yourself at this point and bring McNamara, especially as he currently has nobody lined up longer term for that position with Christie jettisoned as well.

There's an awful lot that just doesn't make sense about this squad, even by Kenny's standards.

Probably just as well Liverpool don't have any more games also, or he'd be getting another rebuke from Klopp for his Kelleher comments. He may get one early in pre-season anyway.

[nigel-harps1954]

Lots of footballers across Europe will be out of contract for games played at this time of year and are nevertheless still called up by their countries. Without really checking, I'm sure there are players within the current Ireland squad named today that meet this description, such as Doherty and McClean.

I've never seen this cited as a credible reason for a player to be left out of an Ireland squad before.

McClean isn't out of contract.


I don't actually see all the fuss. We've two hugely important qualifiers upcoming. Manning obviously didn't fancy it. Cannon is dragging his heels. The likes of Hendrick, McGrath, etc are tried and tested. It's not exactly the kind of camp I'd like to see new players integrated, and important to have a bit of cohesion and get the job done with six points the aim.

Some of the above players listed were part of the training camp, Cannon turned down that trip too, so is hardly deserving of his place this time ether. O'Leary, McNamara and co were all part of that camp. If they didn't impress, they wouldn't be deserving of a place. If Sykes impressed enough to earn his place, then fair play to him.

Szmodics is a strange case, as he was involved in neither, but we don't know what's going on there, and I'm not sure was it raised in the press conference earlier?

The outrage over squad picking without a ball being kicked is nothing new, and been happening for every manager I can remember.

[Eirambler]

I would have said a home game against Gibraltar is exactly the kind of game you'd want to use to integrate new players. I don't think anyone was expecting Cannon or McNamara or whoever to start over in Greece or anything like that. That game will be for the tried and tested alright.

[Razors left peg]

As usual there seems more focus on players not involved than those that are, some justified some not.

Firstly the Cannon one worries me a little. Timely tonsillitis for the training camp and now that being used to say he hasnt trained for 4 weeks, but is still expected to go to u21s squad. Doesnt make much sense to me, especially with Ogbene out. He could have been brought in to at least train with the seniors and see how he went in camp. Rightly or wrongly with the timing of this you could see a scenario where Cannon wants to see how start of season goes. Couple of early season Premiership goals and Engerland might come calling strongly. We'll see, but I do think this is more than the usual paranoia.

Manning might be sulking based on not being called up previously, and if that is the case let him off. He is a poor defender. I know he made team of the season but I think hes pretty average overall and is not going to change the fortunes of this team too much.

Szmodics is a journeyman who is just ok. He wasnt in the recent training squad and I didnt see much talk of why. Maybe he was on hols and didnt fancy it? Again, not a player who is going to change us much. I wouldnt be a huge fan of Hendrick, Browne or McGrath, but I dont think there is a huge case to same Szmodics is that much better than them. Strongest case would be against McGrath but hes not likely to play anyway.

Scales over McNamara again to me is a case of so what! Others who watch more Scottish football than me have said that Scales has prob been best defender in SPL outside of the The Old Firm. He can also cover center and left back.

Lenihan is probably the one who got the call against McNally to replace Omobamidele. Hard to argue against that really, no matter how good McNally has been.

Keane, Robinson, Hogan all have proven not good at International level, even if Robinson had one purple patch a couple years ago.

I would probably have called up Ebosele, starting games by end of season in Serie A and I think gives us something different, but other than that I think the squad is fine. There will always been some players left out that people disagree with, Id love us to get to a point where very good players are left out because others are just performing better.

None of the players left out of this squad are Prime Wes!

[JR89]

Doubt Cannon will be staying with Everton this summer and will more than likely end up back out on loan to another championship team. If someone is in his ear, and if switching becomes a possibility we'll find out this September whether he's with the U21s or not.

If he's gonna switch he'll do it this summer imo. He'll start for their U21s and there's talk the FA want to replace Carsley with someone they feel can replace Southgate when he leaves.

[Razors left peg]

Doubt Cannon will be staying with Everton this summer and will more than likely end up back out on loan to another championship team. If someone is in his ear, and if switching becomes a possibility we'll find out this September whether he's with the U21s or not.

If he's gonna switch he'll do it this summer imo. He'll start for their U21s and there's talk the FA want to replace Carsley with someone they feel can replace Southgate when he leaves.

I dont see why Cannon wouldnt be with Everton next season. Successful loan, has already played 1st team football for them and its not like they have great strikers ahead of him. Theres every reason to think he would be with them next season unless they go on a big spending spree.

[Diggs246]

Taylor is no millionaire, he's a non league punt who came good & won't be financially secure after a couple of years at Peterborough United, and he is also about to make a key transfer in his career at almost 25, this summer. Yet here he is, turned up to the camp and is now in the frame. So it suggests something else may be the answer here re Manning.

Taylor isn't close to signing a life changing professional contract.
He is lucky to be called up actually
But yeah again I would be there if I was manning.

[pineapple stu]

I dont see why Cannon wouldnt be with Everton next season. Successful loan, has already played 1st team football for them and its not like they have great strikers ahead of him. Theres every reason to think he would be with them next season unless they go on a big spending spree.
I don't think it's quite so certain. He scored 8 goals in 20 games - good for the half-season loan he was on, but he's by no means passed the Championship and is ready for the PL now. They may want to see how he fares on a full-season loan when he's better known to opposition teams/defenders. Everton may have gotten a kick up the hole and spend big to avoid another relegation battle next season - and only Wolves scored less than them last season, so up front is an obvious target. It's not clear how much money they actually have though, so Cannon could be opted in as well. It's possible he may be in the squad next season, but I don't think it's as certain as you suggest.


Manning [...] is a poor defender. I know he made team of the season but I think hes pretty average overall and is not going to change the fortunes of this team too much.

Scales over McNamara again to me is a case of so what!
I think these two are linked. First off, I don't think you can so easily dismiss a player voted onto the Championship team of the season. On Scales - he may (I don't know) be the best defender outside the Old Firm, but he didn't come close to making it at Celtic, which shows how far down the rest of the division is. It's similar to dropping down a division in England.

But the problem at full-back is we've been talking for a couple of years about succession planning. Every time a squad come around, we're three months closer to losing Coleman/Doherty/Brady/McClean/Stevens. Brady and Stevens are peripheral figures at best now. Coleman is injured, Doherty is barely getting a kick. Are Sykes/Browne/O'Dowda the future? I think we have better than that out there surely. Is Scales the future, or is it more likely to be McNamara, Manning, Ebosele or even Lyons? I don't think we're really any closer to knowing tbh, and the future is getting very close now.

[mark12345]

Is Cannon dragging his heels? Very disappointing if that's the case. And if so I wouldn't trouble him again with a call up at any level.

[Eirambler]

Well they don't seem to think Scales is the best defender in Scotland outside of Glasgow judging by their forum.

They don't dislike him or anything but they seem to think he's worth about £300k and is probably only the third best centre back at Aberdeen. With the abundance of centre back options we have I'd say Kenny is about the only manager who would have him in the current Irish squad.

https://afc-chat.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/46193-liam-scales-signs-season-loan/page/22/

[Eirambler]

Is Cannon dragging his heels? Very disappointing if that's the case. And if so I wouldn't trouble him again with a call up at any level.

I suppose we don't known for sure. But, if he isn't, he has been well and truly thrown under a bus by the Irish management today because everyone is going to assume that's the case now.

[Razors left peg]

Im not advocating for Scales by any means, I would have Manning ahead of him on the left side but he turned it down so there we are. As a left sided player I dont think there are that many ahead of him

[mark12345]

Thrown under the bus for sure if not picked by Kenny. That aside it is beyond calculation of a sound mind what anyone sees in Jeff Hendrick at this stage of the game.

[Razors left peg]

Thrown under the bus for sure if not picked by Kenny. That aside it is beyond calculation of a sound mind what anyone sees in Jeff Hendrick at this stage of the game.

I dont like him but Hendrick is playing every week in the Championship, there is no one that is outrageously left out who would take Hendricks place in squad

[mark12345]

I dont like him but Hendrick is playing every week in the Championship, there is no one that is outrageously left out who would take Hendricks place in squad

I honestly wouldn't care if they picked a youth player instead of Hendrick who has absolutely no upside at this juncture. But realistically, Ebosele would have been a far better choice

[pineapple stu]

You want to replace a defensive mid with an injured wingback?

That makes no sense

[mark12345]

You want to replace a defensive mid with an injured wingback?

That makes no sense

Hendrick's about as useful to this Irish team as the bus driver. Not his fault that he's picked time and again but the question is why?

[pineapple stu]

Well no - the question asked was why you want to replace a defensive mid with an injured wingback?

[Razors left peg]

I honestly wouldn't care if they picked a youth player instead of Hendrick who has absolutely no upside at this juncture. But realistically, Ebosele would have been a far better choice

This is the sort of nonsense that makes me want to tear my hair out. We dont like Hendrick because he seems to be the definition of average, but you have to be so good to even make it as an average player at Championship level, yet you say lets pick a youth player instead, some lad who we dont even know can play mens football? Maybe someone like Gavin Killkenny who people were calling for in the not too distant past and can hardly get a game in L1 now.

Yes of course we need to move on from Hendrick eventually, but its up to the likes of Coventry, Connell, Taylor, Andy Moran, Hodge, Aziz and others to prove that they can even get to Hendricks level on a regular basis.

As for saying we should pick Ebosele instead... why not Cyrus Christie who has actually played in midfield for us, lest we forget how bad our options were at one point!

[Paddy Garcia]

Terrible decision not to include Cannon, assuming he is in fact fit for the U21s.

[irishfan86]

I realize I'm not adding any value but just feel the need to echo concern about the Cannon omission. Unless Cannon has specifically asked to be left out, this seems almost antagonistic at this point from Kenny. Cannon is probably our most credible goal threat based on form after Evan Ferguson and should absolutely be in the senior squad.

[elatedscum]

I think it’s a positive that Manning was called up, considering he hasn’t been selected recently. Assuming it was just a case of, don’t want to join the squad until I’ve signed a deal for fear of getting injured. Kenny spoke positively about him being in the next squad. I’d have had McNamara, Duffy, Connell and Cannon there - assuming all were available. I wouldn’t have included Scales or Taylor - which would have left me with a 26 man squad. If it came down to it, if one of Egan, O’Shea or Collins got injured I’d prefer Duffy there than Scales (Lenihan vs Duffy is more a coin toss). From the press conference, it basically seems that he prefers Sykes over McNamara when it comes to right wing back. He saw them both in Bristol last week, so fair enough I guess. Not convinced about Browne in that position. I’d have Connell over Taylor, I think he probably is better in the Cullen role, where he keeps the ball ticking over from deep, and that to me, is what the squad needs. Hourihane was that replacement till Armenia and it’s between Coventry, Connell and maybe Kilkenny and Hodge down the line to vie for that spot, whereas Taylor and Azaz are probably more in Hendrick and Molumby slot.


No point speculating on Cannon till we know more (I’d have had him in my squad) - since Deccers we’ve had more conspiracy type cases than we’ve had actual issues, everyone was convinced Obafemi was gonna bolt, some even thought Evan was gonna defect a few months ago. Hodge was a similar case earlier this season where when he wasn’t called up everyone assumed it was cause he’d been asked not to - and now he’s captain of the 21s and no one wants him in the squad. And if you wanna go back a little earlier to 2018, a lot of people thought Matt Doherty was gonna play for Netherlands instead of us.


In those 4 odd years since Declan went, I think the only competitively capped players we’ve lost are Stephen Mallon who isn’t even playing for Cliftonville and Charlie McCann who played 1 game in the league for Rangers in the first half of the season and 56 minutes in the worst team in league 1 in the second half of the season and will be playing League 2 next season. So might as well just hope that Cannon’s in the 21s, on standby and someone gets a knock and he gets called up. And in six months, it’ll seem daft that we even worried about it.


If I was picking the team tomorrow based on this squad, I’d probably go with Bazunu in goal (but much of a muchness between the 3 considering none have played in the last few months and Travers found the tiniest bit of form), Doherty at right back, O’Dowda on the left, Collins, O’Shea and Egan in the centre. Molumby and Cullen in midfield with Smallbone doing the half midfield half attack job on the left, similar to Knight and McGrath against Scotland and Portugal. Obafemi and Ferguson up top.


As an aside, thought Kenny was pretty good in the press conference - he spoke well about all the keepers and defended Bazunu and Kelleher well.

[Snapshot]

As usual there seems more focus on players not involved than those that are, some justified some not.

Firstly the Cannon one worries me a little. Timely tonsillitis for the training camp and now that being used to say he hasnt trained for 4 weeks, but is still expected to go to u21s squad. Doesnt make much sense to me, especially with Ogbene out. He could have been brought in to at least train with the seniors and see how he went in camp. Rightly or wrongly with the timing of this you could see a scenario where Cannon wants to see how start of season goes. Couple of early season Premiership goals and Engerland might come calling strongly. We'll see, but I do think this is more than the usual paranoia.

Manning might be sulking based on not being called up previously, and if that is the case let him off. He is a poor defender. I know he made team of the season but I think hes pretty average overall and is not going to change the fortunes of this team too much.

Szmodics is a journeyman who is just ok. He wasnt in the recent training squad and I didnt see much talk of why. Maybe he was on hols and didnt fancy it? Again, not a player who is going to change us much. I wouldnt be a huge fan of Hendrick, Browne or McGrath, but I dont think there is a huge case to same Szmodics is that much better than them. Strongest case would be against McGrath but hes not likely to play anyway.

Scales over McNamara again to me is a case of so what! Others who watch more Scottish football than me have said that Scales has prob been best defender in SPL outside of the The Old Firm. He can also cover center and left back.

Lenihan is probably the one who got the call against McNally to replace Omobamidele. Hard to argue against that really, no matter how good McNally has been.

Keane, Robinson, Hogan all have proven not good at International level, even if Robinson had one purple patch a couple years ago.

I would probably have called up Ebosele, starting games by end of season in Serie A and I think gives us something different, but other than that I think the squad is fine. There will always been some players left out that people disagree with, Id love us to get to a point where very good players are left out because others are just performing better.

None of the players left out of this squad are Prime Wes!
You demean nearly every player who achieved something this season. Also, practise what you preach about Keane who's played the equivalent (minutes) of little more than one match.

[Supreme feet]

Squad by age group:

18-24: Bazunu, Kelleher, Travers, O'Shea, Collins, Scales, Molumby, Knight, Smallbone, Taylor, Parrott, Idah, Obafemi, Ferguson, Johnston
25-29: Sykes, Lenihan, O'Dowda, Cullen, McGrath, Browne
30+: McClean, Doherty, Egan, Hendrick

[Fixer82]

Where has Lee O'Connor gone? Thought he'd be pushing for squad place these days but seems to have disappeared. Injured? Out of form?

[pineapple stu]

He's at Tranmere in the fourth tier. 122 games there since joining in 2020. Seems to be a long way off stepping up to the senior team unfortunately.

[JR89]

I realize I'm not adding any value but just feel the need to echo concern about the Cannon omission. Unless Cannon has specifically asked to be left out, this seems almost antagonistic at this point from Kenny. Cannon is probably our most credible goal threat based on form after Evan Ferguson and should absolutely be in the senior squad.

It's also a BS reason for leaving him out if that's actually the real reason he wasn't called up. You haven't trained in four weeks (doubt anyone has or only a couple have) and missed our 4 day training camp so therefore I can't call you up to our 9 day training camp next week.

[Stuttgart88]

Hendrick's about as useful to this Irish team as the bus driver. In fairness, actually getting to the games is quite an important thing

[tetsujin1979]

Squad by age group:

18-24: Bazunu, Kelleher, Travers, O'Shea, Collins, Scales, Molumby, Knight, Smallbone, Taylor, Parrott, Idah, Obafemi, Ferguson, Johnston
25-29: Sykes, Lenihan, O'Dowda, Cullen, McGrath, Browne
30+: McClean, Doherty, Egan, Hendrick
Between them, McClean and Hendrick have a third of the caps in the squad
1664246601668255744

[Stuttgart88]

I see they're training in Antalya in Turkey for 9 days to acclimatise to the modest temperatures expected in Greece in 2 weeks.

[Razors left peg]

You demean nearly every player who achieved something this season. Also, practise what you preach about Keane who's played the equivalent (minutes) of little more than one match.

I don't think I was demeaning anyone, I was just pointing out reasons not to get carried away by those left out. I apologize if I upset anyone who is of sensitive and delicate nature.

[Razors left peg]

I see they're training in Antalya in Turkey for 9 days to acclimatise to the modest temperatures expected in Greece in 2 weeks.
To be fair I think the main person arguing that there was no reason to be concerned about the heat is no longer here

[Diggs246]

I'm no martin king!!
But the local temp in Athens at 9pm in 20 degrees! Humidity is 59

So unless thats wrong ? Why are we talking about the weather.

[Diggs246]

Point of clarity
The game kicks off at 9.45pm

[third policeman]

I honestly wouldn't care if they picked a youth player instead of Hendrick who has absolutely no upside at this juncture. But realistically, Ebosele would have been a far better choice

As would Connell who has made a bigger impact in League 1 than either Knight or Taylor, and don't get me started about McGrath. What exactly does a Kenny favourite have to do, or how low does their career trajectory have to dip, to get dropped from the squad

[Razors left peg]

As would Connell who has made a bigger impact in League 1 than either Knight or Taylor, and don't get me started about McGrath. What exactly does a Kenny favourite have to do, or how low does their career trajectory have to dip, to get dropped from the squad

For comparison I just had a look at Jack Taylor vs Connell this season on FobMob. Not the most scientific source but grand for a quick look.

Taylor has 8 goals and 5 Assists with average rating of 7.49.

Connell has 2 goals and 8 assists with average rating of 7.36.

I agree that Connell will come into the squad sooner rather than later and McGrath isn't there on merit at this point, but I don't agree Connell has had a bigger impact in L1 than Taylor this season.

I did look at Knight too but as he played a lot of season at right back I don't think its a like for like comparison. He has average rating of 7.24

[third policeman]

Not sure that goals and assists are the definitive stats especially for a playmaker like Connell. Bothe were Player of the Season for their club, so maybe it's finely balanced, but rather have both than Hendrick or McGrath.

[Razors left peg]

Not sure that goals and assists are the definitive stats especially for a playmaker like Connell. Bothe were Player of the Season for their club, so maybe it's finely balanced, but rather have both than Hendrick or McGrath.

When either show that they can play on a consistently higher level than L1 like Hendrick has done his entire career you might have an argument, but right now he can't be dismissed as easily as we'd all like based on lads from L1. As I said though, I agree on McGrath

[Stuttgart88]

I'm no martin king!!
But the local temp in Athens at 9pm in 20 degrees! Humidity is 59

So unless thats wrong ? Why are we talking about the weather.You've obviously forgotten the previous discussions we've had on this topic!

[Fixer82]

No Robbie Brady again? Is he injured?

[Razors left peg]

No Robbie Brady again? Is he injured?

No, just not good enough anymore

[pineapple stu]

Think he was man of the match against Armenia in fairness

But certainly he's at an age - and an injury profile - where each campaign is a big extra commitment.

I'd have him in the squad if it wasn't the case that the other fullbacks are all a similar profile

[Razors left peg]

Think he was man of the match against Armenia in fairness

But certainly he's at an age - and an injury profile - where each campaign is a big extra commitment.

I'd have him in the squad if it wasn't the case that the other fullbacks are all a similar profile

I just dont think he offers a whole lot anymore. He'll always be a player that never became what he should have been to me, whether its because of injuries or whatever. He should be have been our best player for years with the talent he had.

[pineapple stu]

Certainly there's a feeling he never lived up to that early reputation - which is saying a lot given he gave us Lille for example.

I think Armenia showed he can still do a job though - but we do urgently need to see who's the longer-term option at his position unfortunately

[Razors left peg]

Certainly there's a feeling he never lived up to that early reputation - which is saying a lot given he gave us Lille for example.

I think Armenia showed he can still do a job though - but we do urgently need to see who's the longer-term option at his position unfortunately

Agreed, I wouldnt have been upset to see him called up, but I also dont care that he wasnt

[pineapple stu]

Yeah, that's fair alright

[Fixer82]

Having him as an option to play Wing Back or somewhere in the middle if needed would be beneficial in my opinion. His set-piece deliveries alone are probably better than anyone in the squad. He probably won't cover as much ground as McClean but he's a better footballer

[Stuttgart88]

Anyone else think Rory Gaffney should be called up?

Byrne was exceptional in Sligo but I think we've exhausted that discussion!