Scotland v Republic of Ireland - Saturday, 24th September 2022 - UEFA Nations League

[geysir]

There were so many hands up in the air waiting to be struck in the penalty area, fubar stuff. I think the best that can be said is that we made Scotland work hard to earn their probably slightly deserved victory,
We beat them on aggregate.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Another bad result in a game we should have won.

Two stupid moments in defence did it. Egan didn't do his job for the first. For the penalty, to clarify my thoughts above, no ref nowadays is going to take a blind bit of notice of who bumped into who when there is a handball where the offending player has his hands that high. That's how it is.

That wasn't the main thing though, it was the misses. Parrot cannot play against Armenia now, if he does it's a reward for the worst miss of recent times. Doherty should have scored. Ogbene could have scored. We made plenty of half chances, and wasted them all.

Ogbene aside, the subs didn't work. That was a disappointment for me, as was some of the playacting in the last ten minutes with the square-ups. Letting Scotland goad them all too easily. Back to "green shoots", "positives", blah, blah, blah. It's not good enough anymore. We're playing better, passing better, working out from the back better, but they have to score goals.

And I say that while acknowledging that or defence did very well for 98% of the game, some great performances from others. We're certainly at Scotland's level. But to really confirm that, you need the results.

I thought myself that if we came out of these two games with a win against Armenia and battling loss to Scotland I wouldn't be surprised to see Kenny retained. I don't think he should be, and I remain absolutely baffled by the easy ride he is getting from the media - Liam Brady just said "I'm going to forget the result", give me a break - but he's still on course to get the next campaign with performances like that. But what are we going to do if we get a bad draw for that campaign?

Never forget that Kenny aimed to win this group. He's now fighting it out to avoid relegation. He has to be held to account for that.

[Bielsa´s irish]

I cant believe irish people, defend this , excuse after excuse. Sit back awful. Scotland is an awful brainless tema and we gave him the ball and the possession. Where is the progressive expansive football? He only has passion, you won't win matches with just passion. Though I think Parrott is responsible. But our chances came from their turnovers and mistakes miskicks etc. Scotland isnt Brazil

[passinginterest]

when we win kenny is a mastermind and when we lose it's we don't have the players.


I actually think it?s nothing like that this time. I think we saw a very competently coached looking team. With players who looked a match for their opponents and confident on the ball.

It was high energy, decent quality for the most part. It was a couple of individual mistakes that really separated the teams. Neither manager or overall group of players could be particularly criticised here.

[pineapple stu]

That wasn't the main thing though, it was the misses. Parrot cannot play against Armenia now, if he does it's a reward for the worst miss of recent times. Doherty should have scored. Ogbene could have scored. We made plenty of half chances, and wasted them all.

The Doherty chance wasn't "should have scored" territory in fairness, especially for a full-back.

Was the Ogbene chance the one the keeper hit at him? There was nothing he could do there; that's not a "should have scored"

Parrott should have scored for sure. But Scotland had more chances and corners and possession; we need to acknowledge that.

[Bielsa´s irish]

An ok performance but not result. Very poor defending for the equaliser and a weird but silly penalty.

We badly need someone to become something of a regular goalscorer. Same old story on that front.

Yes we need a southamerican coach.

[DCWA]

Yes we need a southamerican coach.

Agreed. Think we should go for Pele.

[NeverFeltBetter]

I really do think Doherty should have scored. From that position, with the space he had, I would expect any outfielder to be able to hit the target and score.

I said Ogbene "could have scored", not should. I recognise it was a flukey opportunity.

[Bielsa´s irish]

I actually think it?s nothing like that this time. I think we saw a very competently coached looking team. With players who looked a match for their opponents and confident on the ball.

It was high energy, decent quality for the most part. It was a couple of individual mistakes that really separated the teams. Neither manager or overall group of players could be particularly criticised here.

But it was 2nd half. We conceded the ball and possession inexcusable!!!

[brine3]

The Doherty chance wasn't "should have scored" territory in fairness, especially for a full-back.

Was the Ogbene chance the one the keeper hit at him? There was nothing he could do there; that's not a "should have scored"

Parrott should have scored for sure. But Scotland had more chances and corners and possession; we need to acknowledge that.

Yes, while Parrott's chance was a gimme... you can't be relying on every single perfect chance to go in. And we shouldn't be saying oh no we must drop Parrott because he missed a chance. Otherwise you'd say drop Duff from the Ireland team for missing one v one chance in Paris, etc.

It's a probability game. You create many good chances and hopefully some go in. We created some good chances, but not enough.

[brine3]

The Doherty chance wasn't "should have scored" territory in fairness, especially for a full-back.

Was the Ogbene chance the one the keeper hit at him? There was nothing he could do there; that's not a "should have scored"

Parrott should have scored for sure. But Scotland had more chances and corners and possession; we need to acknowledge that.

Yes, while Parrott's chance was a gimme... you can't be relying on every single perfect chance to go in. And we shouldn't be saying oh no we must drop Parrott because he missed a chance. Otherwise you'd say drop Duff from the Ireland team for missing one v one chance in Paris, etc.

It's a probability game. You create many good chances and hopefully some go in. We created some good chances, but not enough.

[centre mid]

Should've won that in truth, there's nothing really between those two sides. Mad to think Scotland will probably be in the A group next time and England wont.

No idea how McGinn didnt get booked. Obefemi rightly annoyed at being taken off, he was causing Scotland all sorts of problems.

[Eirambler]

that's probably (definitely?) the fallback of a playoff gone so a top two finish in the qualification group required. I'd be very pleasantly surprised if we pulled it off.

Not 100% gone, but maybe only a 20% chance now. And 100% out of our hands, we just have to rely on others (beyond not losing to Armenia obviously).

For instance we really need Sweden to beat Slovenia and Albania to not beat Iceland next week to boost our third place ranking. Romania clawing their way up to third in their group with a win would be good also.

[pineapple stu]

I really do think Doherty should have scored. From that position, with the space he had, I would expect any outfielder to be able to hit the target and score.

I said Ogbene "could have scored", not should. I recognise it was a flukey opportunity.
I think that's green tinted glasses still. It would have been a great goal for a fullback to curl it into the top corner. He should have done better for sure, but even a good shot on target from there should be a routine enough save

[Bielsa´s irish]

Forget about England think about Ireland. The national team needs a southamerican coach. Uruguayan Argentinian or brazilian or even Chilean Pelegrini

[zero]

i wouldn't mind seeing oba and ogbene together up front if we're playing counter attack. awful miss from parrott, had the feeling it might cost us.

we looked very vulnerable defensively in the second half which is worrying.

[paul_oshea]

Tod realises Kenny fumbles along so he started interrupting to keep the questioning going

[DCWA]

Tod realises Kenny fumbles along so he started interrupting to keep the questioning going

Aye, has to be said this is a bit of a shocker of an interview here.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

It's pretty clear that we have some decent players coming through and a very competitive squad. We need to get a competent manager in charge to oversee their development. Kenny has had his chance and failed miserably. Another battle at the bottom of the table in this group like the ones before. His stated aim was to win this group. He came nowhere close. He should step down or be sacked. It's not even up for debate anymore.

[da bishop]

Good away performance,just a terrible result.Dohertys defending for first goal was shamefull for a premier player,Brownes decision making for second inexcusable ,Parrots missed chance a story of poor execution.Keep at it lads .

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

As they say, the table never lies. Scotland 12 points, Ukraine 10 points, Ireland 4 points and Armenia 3 points. No amount of excuses can wash over that.

[seanfhear]

^^^ Those are one game from the chop numbers.

[Insidetherock]

As they say, the table never lies. Scotland 12 points, Ukraine 10 points, Ireland 4 points and Armenia 3 points. No amount of excuses can wash over that.

They should give the Premier League trophy to Arsenal now, yeah?

The margins in the group are tiny.. Scotland could easily win the group now, but are they 8 points better off than Irelabd in reality?

This group of players show a lot of promise.. the football is 100 times better to watch than under Trap and O Neill.. six of those players tonight could have played last night against Isreal remember

I spent two years railing against Arteta and "the process".. now Arsenal are top of the Premier League

We'll get there eventually

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

They should give the Premier League trophy to Arsenal now, yeah?

The margins in the group are tiny.. Scotland could easily win the group now, but are they 8 points better off than Irelabd in reality?

This group of players show a lot of promise.. the football is 100 times better to watch than under Trap and O Neill.. six of those players tonight could have played last night against Isreal remember

I spent two years railing against Arteta and "the process".. now Arsenal are top of the Premier League

We'll get there eventually

Is there 1 game left in the premium league? A really bizarre post you've just made. Laughable really, are you putting Kenny in the same bracket as Arteta?

Arteta wouldn't hire Kenny to clean the toilets.

[DCWA]

Is there 1 game left in the premium league? A really bizarre post you've just made. Laughable really, are you putting Kenny in the same bracket as Arteta?


Haha nobody would be stupid enough to put Kenny (management demigod) down in Arteta?s bracket.

[CSAD]

Forget about England think about Ireland. The national team needs a southamerican coach. Uruguayan Argentinian or brazilian or even Chilean Pelegrini

Being South American would make it the answer?

[CSAD]

lol I see on the COYBIG forum they talk about Houghton coming in?


If Hougton was incharge I wouldn?t watch us if we played in my guardan!

[Bielsa´s irish]

For me the Armenia game must be the end of the road forvMr Kenny. Finish vs Armenia and get a draw. Then put a new coach for the friendlies of November asap. Even I would offer Hiddink the role who he was in Australia the other night.

[Bielsa´s irish]

Better than Trapatonni I agree , better than MON not so.

[CraftyToePoke]

Haha nobody would be stupid enough to put Kenny (management demigod) down in Arteta?s bracket.

Well, this is it, nutshell & exactly.

[Bielsa´s irish]

lol I see on the COYBIG forum they talk about Houghton coming in?


If Hougton was incharge I wouldn?t watch us if we played in my guardan!

Chris Hughton or Ray Houghton?

For me Marcelo Bielsa is the answer, maybe Gerry Martino i leaves Mexico.
I would love Hiddink, but he has retired

[samhaydenjr]

Crikey, it's getting depressing - either we go into the Euro qualifiers with a manager looking to have his first good tournament at the fourth attempt (after overseeing three of the worst) or we have another Mick McCarthy 2.0 situation, expecting a new manager to turn things around with few or no games to prepare. We've reached the point of claiming "moral victories" against Scotland in The Nations League - that is not good

Yes, we played well in patches but that is not enough at this stage in Kenny's tenure. If he is the man bring about a revolution in our fortunes, this is the tournament where we should have been seeing the results, where we should show that we are capable of consistently defeating teams viewed as a being at a similar level. Instead it has been Scotland who have done this. One of the other posters talked about fine margins and asked if Scotland really are eight points better than us and the answer is YES! Why? Because they comfortably beat Armenia twice, hammered Ukraine and today got revenge for our victory over them.

But one thing that really, really annoyed me tonight was the attitude of the Scotland fans - they boo Amhran na Bhfiann and The Fields of Athenry (songs about the evils of English Colonial Occupation), they boo McClean for his attitudes to English Colonial Occupation - but then roar out an anthem about how they bravely stood up to English Colonial Occupation seven hundred years ago, after which they later gave up their independence and never got it back, even turning down an opportunity to choose it for themselves. Really, it's time to make them sing God Save The King.

And enough of this "Celtic cousins" nonsense - we need to have suitable chants for the next time we play them - for example
- What's it like to have a King?
- You're just a Northern England province
- You're not a proper country

And speaking of them not being a proper country, should Scotland (plus Wales and Northern Ireland) even have international football teams? I mean every other international footballing team is, politically, an actual country with its own national government. Even setting aside the issues in The North, these three entities, politically speaking, are more comparable with Quebec than other countries. Transdnistria have more of a claim to nationhood and access to international football competitions than Scotland.

[ontheotherhand]

Byrne is nowhere near the levels he was. It's getting a bit sad to be honest. He still has time but I'd fear he won't ever recover from the back and covid issues and he was only ever worth the call up when he was bang on form.

On the game, that's the result you'd expect really. Not sure why Irish football fans think another manager would get a better tune out of a championship level international team. We are a long way away from being competitive. You can't win football games regularly at international level without a recognized striker and we have none. Nobody is even close. Strap in for the long haul lads. If we replace Kenny it will be with another lower tier manager who won't get any more out of this squad. At least Kenny is getting decent shifts out of players we will need to rely on in the future.

[ontheotherhand]

That's a reply to nigel.....foot.ie has gone haywire. Or I have. Hard to tell.

[seanfhear]

The “ Scots “ actually Voted down the chance to become an Independent Country ~ LOL.

[seanfhear]

The ? Scots ? actually Voted down the chance to become an Independent Country ~ LOL.

[Eirambler]

I wouldn't be overly concerned about the anthem booing or anything like that, it has to be taken in the context of who and what the Scotland supporter base is made up of. Scottish football is a pretty depressed, confused place full of supporters with a massive psychological complex that has to be seen first hand to be believed - and it often comes out in instances like that.

Believe me most of the tartan army would absolutely love to be in our position of having no direct links with England and the King, but as a country they just lack the national self confidence and ability to make it happen when given the chance. Easier to just boo the real countries that turn up at their stadium - especially the ones located on their doorstep where it hits them the hardest about their inconsequential position in the world.

Same as the Welsh really, if England wasn't the birthplace of football these places wouldn't even have international teams, so they should probably actually be thanking their overlords really, like the north do.

Best to let them off at it if it makes them feel better, if they do make it to Germany in 2024 they won't be travelling there on a Scottish passport, that's for sure (though a few lucky ones might qualify for an Irish one!).

We're at a rare point in modern times where they have more top end players than we have, I think that will only be the case for another couple of years, but we acquitted ourselves well over the two games and won them on aggregate, so to speak, with a squad of mostly championship players, so I think we did ok.

It wasn't against Scotland that we blew the Nations league campaign - it was in the first two games where we inexplicably lost to both Armenia away and a second string Ukraine at home due to poor selection and team setup. We're paying the price for that now.

[placid casual]

I think talk of getting rid of Kenny just smacks of the short termism that riddles EPL football and gives fans of clubs there misguided notions about how to be successful.
I think Kenny should be given the Euro qualifiers to see how we get on. As 3rd seeds in a group it will mean overcoming a higher seed to at least get into a play off, but looking at some of the higher seeds and they're not especially frightening - scotland, for example are absolute pish.
Patience is a virtue for this manager I believe. The players are clearly enjoying playing his way of football anyway.

[texidub]

Great first half performance, and an enjoyable game overall despite the result. At the same time Scotland are no great shakes.
Hope Parrot's confidence isn't knocked by that moment of indecisiveness... Ireland provided a bit of respite from his lack of goals at club level. In fairness, he showed some great close control in the box for the goal that was disallowed.

Ogbene and Obafemi playing up front together would be really good to watch, I think... could see them pulling defenses all over the place. Would need intelligent balls from the rest of the team to make the most of it, obviously, but would like to see Kenny try that combination from the start on Tuesday evening. The Armenian defense was slow footed against Ukraine yesterday and I don't think they would relish the prospect of running around after that pair for 60-90 minutes. Ogbene is fast becoming one of my favourite Irish players... great energy.. infectious personality with an overhead kick every now and then... what's not to like?

I like Knight a lot, but felt he was a bit off the pace of the game and that he wasn't as attack-minded and effective as he has been in previous games. Ditto Cullen.

As for Kenny being sacked or not, I can't see it happening, even if we lose to or draw with Armenia.

[DCWA]

Believe me most of the tartan army would absolutely love to be in our position of having no direct links with England and the King,.

Without wishing to drag this further off topic, I must point out that this is an insane statement and to make reflects a very similar attitude (if not, frankly, a lot worse) than you lambast the Scots for elsewhere in your post.

Nearly a 5th of our country is occcupied and controlled by England and by extension of course the king.

[Trequartista20]

But one thing that really, really annoyed me tonight was the attitude of the Scotland fans - they boo Amhran na Bhfiann and The Fields of Athenry (songs about the evils of English Colonial Occupation), they boo McClean for his attitudes to English Colonial Occupation - but then roar out an anthem about how they bravely stood up to English Colonial Occupation seven hundred years ago, after which they later gave up their independence and never got it back, even turning down an opportunity to choose it for themselves. Really, it's time to make them sing God Save The King.




Believe me most of the tartan army would absolutely love to be in our position of having no direct links with England and the King, but as a country they just lack the national self confidence and ability to make it happen when given the chance. Easier to just boo the real countries that turn up at their stadium - especially the ones located on their doorstep where it hits them the hardest about their inconsequential position in the world.

I'm often left amazed by the average Irish person's ignorance on this issue and failure to grasp even basic modern history.

There was a union of the Scottish and English crowns in 1603, whereby upon the death of Elizabeth I, her cousin, James VI of Scotland (who oversaw the Plantation of Ulster), also became King of England (James I). The House of Stuart then reigned over both kingdoms (and Ireland) for well over a century. Charles III is descended from the House of Stuart on both sides of his family going back to its founder, Robert II, grandson of Robert the Bruce. Charles I and II were both Stuarts.

Scotland had imperial ambitions even before the 1707 Act of Union, attempting to create a 'New Caledonia' in Panama in what is known as the Darien Scheme. They chose to form a political union with England (Great Britain) due to financial difficulties, in part caused by the failure of this project.

Thereafter they played an outsized and leading role at the vanguard of British imperialism. Six of the Governor Generals of colonial India were Scottish, for example.

The 'Celtic brothers' thing leaves me cold I'm afraid. Scotland's history is not our history. As a nation they are, or at least were, the willing and enthusiastic perpetrators of imperialism and colonialism, not its victim.

[CSAD]

Chris Hughton or Ray Houghton?

For me Marcelo Bielsa is the answer, maybe Gerry Martino i leaves Mexico.
I would love Hiddink, but he has retired

Does it matter? Either one of them would be terrible! But specifically I meant Chris.

[Fixer82]

Why in the name of God were we wearing orange last night?

[Insidetherock]

Why in the name of God were we wearing orange last night?

To confuse the Rangers fans ��

[Fixer82]

To confuse the Rangers fans ��

Green and navy hardly clash.

[Insidetherock]

Updated seedings for the Euros draw.

Pot 1

Most likely:

Croatia, Denmark, Portugal, Hungary, Italy, Netherlands, Belgium, Spain, Switzerland, France


Pot 2:

Most Likely

Austria, Czech Republic, England, Poland, Wales, Scotland, Isreal, Bosnia, Norway, Ukraine


Pot 3:

Most Likely:

Ireland, Armenia, Iceland, Albania, Montenegro, Finland, Romania, Serbia, Slovenia, Sweden


Pot 4:

Most likely

Turkey, Luxembourg, Greece, Kosovo, Kazakhstan, Azerbijan, Georgia, North Macedonia, Slovakia, Bulgaria


Pot 5

Faroe Islands, Lithuania, Northern Ireland, Cyprus, Belarus, Gibraltar, Latvia, Estonia, Moldova, Malta,


Pot 6:

Andorra, Liechtenstein, San Marino

[Insidetherock]

So we're looking at 10 groups

7 groups of 5, 3 groups of 6

Top 2 in each group qualify directly

Three qualifying from play offs via the Nations League A, B and C paths

Plus Germany as hosts.

[Stuttgart88]

Tough one to take. Big games are decided on big moments. We lost the 2 big moments.

I was really impressed with how we responded to Scotland taking charge of the second half. After a very ropey spell we fought back into it and made chances.

Then a fluke penalty.

A match fit Doc wouldn?t have been beaten stupidly and might have scored. Yet he did well still I think.

Bielsa is talking rubbish. That performance was a mile better - from both teams - than the ugly but compelling slugfest in the 2014 game.

[Insidetherock]

Avoid England and Poland from Pot 2 and I don't think there's much between any of the rest of them..

Avoid Georgia.. just cause they are Georgia.. from Pot 4 .. maybe Turkey too

But if the team can keep improving.. and more importantly, start converting chances.. we might give the qualifiers a right run

[Bielsa´s irish]

well said about Scotland colonlialism, from all the poor the welsh the victims