Scotland v Republic of Ireland - Saturday, 24th September 2022 - UEFA Nations League

[zero]

The FAI have clearly had a very different view from the Kenny supporters throughout his reign. They wouldn't have included the break clause in his contract if it was the case that him continuing was a certainty. It's set up that way so that they can let him go at no cost after the Nations League if they want to. So if we get 0 or 1 points from the two games I think it's safe to say he's gone. I think the public mood would change in that case anyway. After all, we've only won one game of note during his entire time in charge, and even that was at home to the persistent bottlers that are Scotland.

I think at this stage a return of 0/1 point from these two games would be very hard to defend - but I guess then again we've thought that before.

[Diggs246]

The FAI have clearly had a very different view from the Kenny supporters throughout his reign. They wouldn't have included the break clause in his contract if it was the case that him continuing was a certainty. It's set up that way so that they can let him go at no cost after the Nations League if they want to. So if we get 0 or 1 points from the two games I think it's safe to say he's gone. I think the public mood would change in that case anyway. After all, we've only won one game of note during his entire time in charge, and even that was at home to the persistent bottlers that are Scotland.

Is there 100% a break clause after the armenia game?? Because that is different

[Trequartista20]

After nearly four years in post, two more poor results/performances would simply be indicative of it being a case of 'one step forward and two steps back', with no real, demonstrative progress being made.

It's not even as if he can say 'it's a very young team, I'm building towards Euro 2024' because his team and squad selections continue to be be quite conservative, reliant on a core of players near or over thirty. And his recall of an ageing, injury-prone Brady, who hasn't started more than 15 league games in a season since 2016/17, looks downright regressive.

[Jd2793]

And his recall of an ageing, injury-prone Brady, who hasn't started more than 15 league games in a season since 2016/17, looks downright regressive.

hardly. hes playing in a new position

[elatedscum]

And his recall of an ageing, injury-prone Brady, who hasn't started more than 15 league games in a season since 2016/17, looks downright regressive.

Who are his options for LWB? McClean, Stevens and Brady? You've got Manning and Scales, both of whom I think are better at LCB. Manning played last season in that LCB and this season, he's play LWB but it's a position where we're weak. Kenny's 21s had the likes of Dara Leahy, Trev Clarke, Thomas O'Connor, Kam Ledwidge, Tyreke Wilson playing at left-back (all 98/99 except Ledwidge). None are anywhere close to selection. The previous campaign had Danny Kane there and the current campaign has Joel Bagan (concussed) and Tayo Adaramola (playing 23s) or Andy Lyons, similarly, none close to selection.

Greg Cunningham is probably the next up after Scales and Manning and that speaks volumes. His squads have had more 21s eligible players in them than any side in Europe (last time i checked - Luxembourg where the only team close with 1 less). The side that beat Scotland had 4 u21 starters and Bazunu, Idah and Omobadele were missing from the squad due to injury. Plus you've also got another 2 lads who have been in squads (Connolly, Ebosele) and you've got a bunch of lads from the previous 21s group who have graduated to seniors and are squad regulars (Kelleher, Travers, O'Shea, Molumby)

Night and day from previous managers.

There's still a lack of depth in certain areas, left back, midfield in particular and you can't create players from nothing - but overall, the turnover of the squad has been huge

[ontheotherhand]

Who are his options for LWB? McClean, Stevens and Brady? You've got Manning and Scales, both of whom I think are better at LCB. Manning played last season in that LCB and this season, he's play LWB but it's a position where we're weak. Kenny's 21s had the likes of Dara Leahy, Trev Clarke, Thomas O'Connor, Kam Ledwidge, Tyreke Wilson playing at left-back (all 98/99 except Ledwidge). None are anywhere close to selection. The previous campaign had Danny Kane there and the current campaign has Joel Bagan (concussed) and Tayo Adaramola (playing 23s) or Andy Lyons, similarly, none close to selection.

Greg Cunningham is probably the next up after Scales and Manning and that speaks volumes. His squads have had more 21s eligible players in them than any side in Europe (last time i checked - Luxembourg where the only team close with 1 less). The side that beat Scotland had 4 u21 starters and Bazunu, Idah and Omobadele were missing from the squad due to injury. Plus you've also got another 2 lads who have been in squads (Connolly, Ebosele) and you've got a bunch of lads from the previous 21s group who have graduated to seniors and are squad regulars (Kelleher, Travers, O'Shea, Molumby)

Night and day from previous managers.

There's still a lack of depth in certain areas, left back, midfield in particular and you can't create players from nothing - but overall, the turnover of the squad has been huge

I'd agree with that. He hasn't just gone back to the older heads by choice. They are there because we have nothing else.

Now you could also argue that any other manager taking us through this transition would have brought in the same younger lads as they are currently the only options as well.

Do people see genuine alternatives out there for any position? Should he just throw unprepared lads in or should he add them in around experience? I favour the latter. But I also think he has to do that by necessity.

[Eirambler]

I'd certainly have liked to have seen McNamara brought in before now for a look. As a natural right wing back who is strong defensively he might have given us the option to switch Doherty to the left. I'm not convinced we can rely on Coleman as a starter anymore so that leaves us with Doherty as a stick on for RWB and then we need someone else on the left.

[JR89]

The FAI have clearly had a very different view from the Kenny supporters throughout his reign. They wouldn't have included the break clause in his contract if it was the case that him continuing was a certainty. It's set up that way so that they can let him go at no cost after the Nations League if they want to. So if we get 0 or 1 points from the two games I think it's safe to say he's gone. I think the public mood would change in that case anyway. After all, we've only won one game of note during his entire time in charge, and even that was at home to the persistent bottlers that are Scotland.

Or we're finally ran by a competent CEO and see things like this as mandatory now for all contracts.

[geysir]

Im not saying its right but I think he gets euro 2024 matter what happens. We could lose 3-0 to Scotland and 0-2 to Armenia and he won't be sacked.

I think he would be sacked in the minds of the supporters, you just can't lose to Armenia at home, get relegated and have a cover story that would sound in any way convincing.
In any event, Ukraine were powder puff at Hampden,not a patch on their previous performances and according to the Scots' record, they will blow it just when they think they have it sorted out.
I fancy at least a well earned draw in an entertaining game.

[lofty9]

After coming out of the ground at the end of the Scotland match I sensed a real buzz about the place. Then I came on here.......

[MylesNotMiley]

No 'ifs' and 'buts' about it - relegation should be a sackable offence.

[Kingdom]

After coming out of the ground at the end of the Scotland match I sensed a real buzz about the place. Then I came on here.......

Thank god someone said it. F*ck me this is depressing

[Trequartista20]

Who are his options for LWB? McClean, Stevens and Brady? You've got Manning and Scales, both of whom I think are better at LCB. Manning played last season in that LCB and this season, he's play LWB but it's a position where we're weak.

...and you've got a bunch of lads from the previous 21s group who have graduated to seniors and are squad regulars (Kelleher, Travers, O'Shea, Molumby)

It's only a small thing and maybe Kenny will be fully vidicated, but I thought dropping Manning and Ebosele in favour of going back to Robbie Brady, looked like a retrograde move, especially when you consider that McClean turns 34 before the end of the season and Stevens (32) is becoming increasingly injury-prone.

Manning (26) has been playing regularly and well at wingback this season, winning praise from his manager for his performances. Unlike you, I don't see him as a natural centre-half, but you would have thought his versatility and technical ability would have counted in his favour. Apparently not.

As another poster suggested, the retirements/career decline of a number of players from the O'Neill/McCarthy eras has meant that the average age of the squad has dropped almost by default. New players have had to be brought in to plug the holes. Kelleher's 24 next month, Travers, O'Shea, and Molumby are 23, so not exactly kids now. The more youthful profile of the team that played Scotland seemed to work and I hope we continue along that path.

This isn't a particular criticism of Kenny, who's been better than some of his predecessors, but sometimes I wish we were a bit braver and more proactive in identifying talent early and backing players. For example, Wales, following a long-term strategy, recently called up 17-year-old Luke Harris of Fulham after just 45 minutes of first-team football. Why? Because they've been able to recognise his ability early on and have had the courage of their convictions.

By contrast, it's been clear for several years that Nathan Collins is an outstanding talent and yet he only made his competitive debut in the last round of fixtures shortly before sealing a £20+ million move. Could he have been given his chance a bit earlier?

I think we could have been a little bit braver. Given how poor we've been over the last number of years I don't think we'd be risking a lot.

[seanfhear]

There was a time many years ago when it was said about the English Rugby Squad ( back a few eras ) that it was harder to get out of the squad that in to it ~ ~ It seems at times this could be said of Irish teams / squads down trough the years ~ ~ The treatment of Seamus Coleman by Trappatoni was bordering on the bizarre ~ ~ The treatment of Matt Doherty by Martin O’Neill was along the same lines.

[Insidetherock]

Just looking at the Nations League tables "as they stand" tonight, I would be a lot less confident of securing a play off place for the Euro's if we don't qualify directly, than I was up to now.

If you look at the B path, it looks like the four group winners will be Scotland, Isreal, Bosnia, Norway... hardly locks to qualify directly.. maybe one of the 4 might, so that would close off getting into the B path play off

Currently we're in third place, so if we don't improve on that, one of Ukraine, Iceland, Montenegro or Serbia, would displace a direct qualifying team from the top four, if they didn't qualify, and you couldn't see the four of them being likely to go up either

Plus, if we remain in 3rd, those four would be ahead of us in going up to the A path play off, should less than 4 of the A group teams make it..

So I think to have any chance of the "play off" safety net.. we're going to have to win the two games this week... or qualify directly

The other "as it stands" seedings look like this

Pot 1.

Croatia, Denmark, Spain, Portugal, Hungary, Italy, Netherlands, Belgium, France, Germany

Pot 2

Austria, Czech Republic, Switzerland, England, Poland, Wales, Scotland, Norway, Bosnia, Isreal,

Pot 3

Ukraine, Ireland, Iceland, Albania, Armenia, Montenegro, Finland, Romania, Sweden, Serbia,

Pot 4

Slovenia, Turkey, Luxembourg, Greece, Kosovo, Kazakhstan, Azerbijan, Georgia, Macedonia, Bulgaria


So you could be looking at a right potential disastrous group there

Beguim, England, Georgia... arrgghhhh

Or, Denmark, Isreal, Kosovo

[elatedscum]

The maths of it is probably better than you realise. Basically - if we come third we?re ranked somewhere between 25th to 28th. 20 teams will qualify automatically. How many of those teams 20 teams will be in the top 28 as opposed to the bottom 25 - about 18 or 19 or 20. So as a result, the 8 playoff spots will go to the lads who didn?t qualify. If all qualifiers are from the top 28, then all unqualified 3rd place teams will enter a playoff. If one team outside that group gets in, 3 of 4 will qualify. Last time I think Turkey were the only qualifier outside that group for example. So in that context, as long as you weren?t the worst 3rd placed side, you?d make the playoff

Germany are also ahead of us, so that probably pushes us up one more spot?

I know if you read the list of names, you think, not a lot of definite qualifiers there but if the League A lads all qualify then you only need a handful of the others to qualify

[elatedscum]

I?d take:

Hungary
Israel
Ireland
Luxembourg

[Eirambler]

Someone in our pot is going to get a heavyweight first seed plus England in their group and it's going to be over for them before it starts. We just have to hope that team isn't us.

We're nowhere near the top 16 teams in Europe so if we don't qualify for Euro 2024 that's probably that for us in terms of major finals until 2028 at the earliest.

[pineapple stu]

France, Poland or Portugal could be in Pot 2 as well, so it's not just a 1-in-10 change of drawing England we have to worry about. Though we could get Hungary as a first seed - they've been in great form lately, but you'd still figure we'd have much more of a chance against them than against any of the other top seeds.

[Eirambler]

The Scots are very confident ahead of today's game anyway - they seem convinced they're going to get a performance after what happened in Dublin, maybe they're right but hopefully not.

Some talk of maybe being able to rest the likes of Tierney and one or two more for this one to keep them fresh for the more difficult Ukraine game.

[CSAD]

The Scots are very confident ahead of today's game anyway - they seem convinced they're going to get a performance after what happened in Dublin, maybe they're right but hopefully not.

Some talk of maybe being able to rest the likes of Tierney and one or two more for this one to keep them fresh for the more difficult Ukraine game.

If football was won based on blind optimism Scotland would be promoted in June.

[CSAD]

France, Poland or Portugal could be in Pot 2 as well, so it's not just a 1-in-10 change of drawing England we have to worry about. Though we could get Hungary as a first seed - they've been in great form lately, but you'd still figure we'd have much more of a chance against them than against any of the other top seeds.

I wouldn?t want Poland but I wouldn?t exactly place them in the same category as Portugal or England (I don?t think France will get relegated).

[pineapple stu]

Yeah, probably right on that in fairness.

[texidub]

I expect to be none the wiser about Kenny's abilities or the level of talent in the team after these two games. That's part of the entertainment factor with this past few years under Kenny though... no idea what we'll get... but all the time young players are getting a chance and building experience (and being forgiven mistakes and medicore moments).. and the overall play still feels like an improvement on some of the turgid dependability of previous generations of the Irish team. Can't make head nor tail of it though. Looking forward to both matches.

[tetsujin1979]

Might have gone with Brady on the left, or Ogbene up front, but they're marginal calls
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[NeverFeltBetter]

SK seems a little off going by that interview just now. Teetchy. Hmm. Not sure what to expect tonight.

[pineapple stu]

Already a fair bit more direct than usual, which is interesting.

Scotland more composed than us early doors

[NeverFeltBetter]

At least he got that in the net, eventually.

[joey B]

What a finish from Egan!

[pineapple stu]

Hello!

Slightly against the run of play, but a great finish from Egan.

(Quiet on here tonight)

[passinginterest]

Pretty entertaining game. Fairly frantic but we?re causing them problems with our press and pace on the break. They?ve had more of the ball and pressure but not much in way of chances.

[NeverFeltBetter]

We're doing well. Scottish defence looks worried every time we come running at them. Think the crowd is making Scotland seem better than they are, going forward they seem sort of impotent so far.

[Insidetherock]

God I'd absolutely love a win.. and Armenia next week.. it'd be some boost for the team and getting fans behind them

Mc Clean who I love, is a weak link.. Obafemi is a bit weird, looks like he doesn't fancy it half the time.. but yet I think he could be explosive

Watching this on a new telly.. no reason to throw anything at it just yet

Mon Ireland

[Insidetherock]

God I'd absolutely love a win.. and Armenia next week.. it'd be some boost for the team and getting fans behind them

Mc Clean who I love, is a weak link.. Obafemi is a bit weird, looks like he doesn't fancy it half the time.. but yet I think he could be explosive

Watching this on a new telly.. no reason to throw anything at it just yet

Mon Ireland

[SkStu]

It?s been a fine away performance against a team that had their tails up coming in. I think overall we?re pretty good value for the lead. They?ve pressed and had most of the ball but haven?t really caused us too many problems, maybe McGinn could?ve done better with one or two opportunities.

Collins is showing that he is already what we can consider an elite player. Oozes class. The other two CBS have played well too and Egans finish was excellent. I think Doherty brings a composure and touch that is critical to how we?re trying to play. McClean has given his best but his only pass is low percentage down the line. The midfield trio have been quiet but effective, working hard with Molumby biting ankles and Knight pressing forward well. Obafemi has been frustrating he?s had at least three times where he picked the wrong pass or lost his touch in really promising positions but has worked so hard. Parrot has shown some moments but overall quiet and not getting the service.

I think we have a gear to step up and I?d love to see Ogbene get a run early. Could do some damage to a tiring defence.

(edit: not sure what all the question marks in my post are about!)

[pineapple stu]

Happy out with that.

Obafemi not adding much. Everyone else doing ok but no-one standing out. Scotland have some nice approach work but I don't think they've had a shot on target yet? They've even gotten some nice positions 25 yards out but have played it wide rather than have a go

[NeverFeltBetter]

That was a hell of a first half performance, one of the best of the SK era. Can we play Scotland every week?

Bazunu solid, not seriously tested yet. Defence very good, they've really shut Scotland down. Midfield working hard, even if going forward they are being bypassed by the long ball, they're still working turnovers and limited Scottish counterattacks. Very impressed with the forwards, a lot of runnings, lot of good interplay, they just need to be a bit smarter with the chosen throughball.

Molumby might need to be hooked though, he's a red card waiting to happen. If we can keep this up for a while the crowd will turn and the Scots will panic, it's already starting to happen.

[passinginterest]

Enjoyed that first half. Both teams playing a high tempo pressing game so lots of turnover and unpredictability. We?ve done well and look very well organised.

Thought the yellow for Cullen was extremely harsh and the a minute later he?s dangerously close to a second one. If he wasn?t such a key player it might be worth taking him off because it feels like one more slightly dodgy tackle and he?ll walk.

Would like to see Brady for McClean early second half and maybe Ogbene for Obafemi no later than the hour mark.

[joey B]

Competing well without having too much going forward,need more from Parrott and Obafemi,not sure why Scotland started Dykes instead of Adams,he’s a much better player ,it’ll be tougher when he comes on ,Tierney going off is a bonus for us aswell…..

[backstothewall]

Kenny needs to take Cullen off at half time. He's been booked for persistent fouling, and commited another foul a minute later.

He's going to be sent off the next time he fouls someone.

[Insidetherock]

Totally agree re Cullen.. has to be pulled at half time.. or he won't make it to full time

[SkStu]

Who comes in for him? Hendrick with Molumby sitting in? Not a game I can see Hourihane or Browne getting to the tempo of?

[TonyD]

Pretty entertaining game. Fairly frantic but we?re causing them problems with our press and pace on the break. They?ve had more of the ball and pressure but not much in way of chances.

Pretty much sums it up. So far so good. I?d like to see us get a bit more of the ball, hopefully that will happen as it goes on. Would definitely like to see Ogbene on at some stage. Think he could cause them big problems. Maybe if Obafemi gets tired, think he has done well, though maybe could have done a little better at t8mes when he got the ball on the break. His pace is worrying them though.

[SkStu]

Enjoyed that first half. Both teams playing a high tempo pressing game so lots of turnover and unpredictability. We?ve done well and look very well organised.

Thought the yellow for Cullen was extremely harsh and the a minute later he?s dangerously close to a second one. If he wasn?t such a key player it might be worth taking him off because it feels like one more slightly dodgy tackle and he?ll walk.

Would like to see Brady for McClean early second half and maybe Ogbene for Obafemi no later than the hour mark.

Brady for McClean is a good shout too.

[Bielsa´s irish]

Mon doing the analysis in the stadium. Great Martin insightful MCTominay guilty for Ireland's goal

[Bielsa´s irish]

Cullen out please silly yellow, leave the damned football there, don't kick it dirty arts

[NeverFeltBetter]

Somehow I mixed up Molumby with Cullen. Agree he needs to come off, even if it comes with a risk to shape.

[Trequartista20]

Classic away performance so far; we've defended well with the Scots creating little. Very physical competitive match.

Obafemi not at his sharpest but he and Parrott have worried the Scottish defence a few times.

Cullen unfortunately walking a tightrope but he's too important to take off.

Like against Ukraine, at half-time I feel as though we can win this, but we became a bit loose and open in the second half in Poland. Hopefully we don'rlt see the same here.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Four Irish players waiting for a cross, almost lining up, and McClean plays it low and straight to a Scottish defender to clear. Give Brady his chance in that position soon.

[joey B]

Terrible defending