Armenia V Republic of Ireland - Saturday, 4th June 2022 - 2022/23 UEFA Nations League

[pineapple stu]

Results and performances for Ireland is all I care about. Do you dispute that things improved with Barry involved?
Ironic that you completely ignore a comment after accusing another poster of the same thing!

I think yesterday's game fitted in with the pattern of the Kenny regime to date tbh. Against the poor sides - Luxembourg, Andorra, Qatar, Azerbaijan, Lithuania and Armenia - we've tended to start brightly and if we score early then we get a bit of confidence, force the other team to come out of their shell, and we create more. (See Qatar (H) and Azerbaijan (A). Qatar in Hungary is the only exception, when we scored early and drew 1-1)

But if we don't score early, then we get bogged down, lose our way in the game, let the other side into it. Luxembourg (A) and Andorra (A) saw us get bogged down for more than an hour before finally scoring and then the other team had to change tack and we had more room and scored more. Yesterday could well have been the same if Ogbene had scored that sitter of a header on 45.

But the longer we don't score, the less we look like scoring, and it just takes a bolt from distance to really put us under pressure (Azerbaijan (H), Luxembourg (H) and Armenia (A)). We did at least get an equaliser against Azerbaijan by abandoning our game plan, sticking Duffy up front and lumping balls into him. That didn't work last night.

Then Lithuania (H) we bailed out in the 97th minute.

You could maybe add both Bulgaria games to that list given how far they've fallen - they meet the same pattern.

So to be honest, I think all those games fit a broad pattern that has been reasonably consistent in Kenny's time, regardless of coach. We're too easy to defend against, have no creativity, and are unwilling to have a pop from distance; the only positive is that if we do take the lead and make a poor team come at us, we can get in behind them then

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

I think yesterday's game fitted in with the pattern of the Kenny regime to date tbh.

I agree, yesterday's game was an utter shambles which describes Kenny's reign perfectly. You can judge a manager on where the team was prior to taking over and where they currently stand. He has driven us backwards by a long way. From qualifying and coming really close to qualifying for major tournaments, Kenny has turned us into no hopers scraping it out at the bottom of groups.

[youngirish]

Stephen Kenny shows again how out of his depth he really is and how poor and amateurish the LOI is. Nobody managing or playing in that league should be near the Irish setup. The talk from the LOI groupies about not being able to get rid of him because there is nobody better to replace him with is the usual garbage designed to obfuscate the real issue (Kenny himself) and keep their man in the driving seat no matter how disastrous his term in charge proves to the Ireland team. He should have been sacked a year ago. It will now take years to repair the damage he has done. To put things into perspective Staunton had a more impressive record as Ireland manager.

For 550,000 Euros a year I'm sure you could find a multitude of managers who would be interested in the job but I don't expect anything to happen as the FAI, in their infinite wisdom, decided to recently extend his contract. They would now have to pay this clown a fortune to leave.

For all the fools singing his praises I leave you with this - you are as responsible as he is for the absolute dire state of circumstances the current Irish team finds itself in. The team are a laughing stock amongst our closest neighbours and I'd imagine to anyone who cares in the footballing world at large.

[pineapple stu]

I agree, yesterday's game was an utter shambles which describes Kenny's reign perfectly.
You're again "ignoring the rest of my comment for some reason" (your quote) where I say that I don't see much difference across the various coaches/assistant managers we've had. Or am I to take it you actually agree with that part too?

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

I don't see much difference across the various coaches/assistant managers we've had.

You don't see much of a difference between battling it out at the bottom of groups with Bulgaria, Luxembourg, Azerbaijan and Armenia and qualifying and coming close to qualifying for major tournaments?

[pineapple stu]

Of course I do.

But I don't see much difference between Kenny with Anthony Barry as coach and with someone else as coach, which is the point being discussed.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

Of course I do.

But I don't see much difference between Kenny with Anthony Barry as coach and with someone else as coach, which is the point being discussed.

Well, I can't do anything to help your observational skills I'm afraid.

The point being discussed is Kenny showing that he is completely out of his depth at this level. How much more evidence is needed before his fanatics face that reality?

[pineapple stu]

Well, I can't do anything to help your observational skills I'm afraid.
I guess you could address my post where I analyse our performances across the various coaches and argue that the same issues are arising regardless of who the coach is.

That might involve going away from your stock cliches though.

[Bielsa´s irish]

Stephen Kenny shows again how out of his depth he really is and how poor and amateurish the LOI is. Nobody managing or playing in that league should be near the Irish setup. The talk from the LOI groupies about not being able to get rid of him because there is nobody better to replace him with is the usual garbage designed to obfuscate the real issue (Kenny himself) and keep their man in the driving seat no matter how disastrous his term in charge proves to the Ireland team. He should have been sacked a year ago. It will now take years to repair the damage he has done. To put things in perspective Staunton had a more impressive record as Ireland manager.

For 550,000 Euros a year I'm sure you could find a multitude of managers who would be interested in the job but I don't expect anything to happen as the FAI, in their infinite wisdom, decided to recently extend his contract. They would now have to pay this clown a fortune to leave.

For all the fools singing his praises I leave you with this - you are as responsible as he is for the absolute dire state of circumstances the current Irish team finds itself in. The team are a laughing stock amongst our closest neighbours and I'd imagine to anyone who cares in the footballing world at large.

Get El Loco Marcelo Bielsa, he wants a national team, Australia is after him and Bolivia and Chile too, he loves The DNA of The irish players as Leeds Marseille and The basques, turn ordinary players into better one, he is a crazy teacher

[Bielsa´s irish]

Ironic that you completely ignore a comment after accusing another poster of the same thing!

I think yesterday's game fitted in with the pattern of the Kenny regime to date tbh. Against the poor sides - Luxembourg, Andorra, Qatar, Azerbaijan, Lithuania and Armenia - we've tended to start brightly and if we score early then we get a bit of confidence, force the other team to come out of their shell, and we create more. (See Qatar (H) and Azerbaijan (A). Qatar in Hungary is the only exception, when we scored early and drew 1-1)

But if we don't score early, then we get bogged down, lose our way in the game, let the other side into it. Luxembourg (A) and Andorra (A) saw us get bogged down for more than an hour before finally scoring and then the other team had to change tack and we had more room and scored more. Yesterday could well have been the same if Ogbene had scored that sitter of a header on 45.

But the longer we don't score, the less we look like scoring, and it just takes a bolt from distance to really put us under pressure (Azerbaijan (H), Luxembourg (H) and Armenia (A)). We did at least get an equaliser against Azerbaijan by abandoning our game plan, sticking Duffy up front and lumping balls into him. That didn't work last night.

Then Lithuania (H) we bailed out in the 97th minute.

You could maybe add both Bulgaria games to that list given how far they've fallen - they meet the same pattern.

So to be honest, I think all those games fit a broad pattern that has been reasonably consistent in Kenny's time, regardless of coach. We're too easy to defend against, have no creativity, and are unwilling to have a pop from distance; the only positive is that if we do take the lead and make a poor team come at us, we can get in behind them then
I totally Agree and he stopped calling up players he trusted McGrath and Horgan for no reason.

[geysir]

I had to stop watching the game at half time and left the game thinking that we were in control and at worst a nil all draw at the end.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

analyse our performances

Like I said, if you didn't notice the improvements with Barry involved, then you need to work on your observational skills.

The main point which I think you agree with though is that Kenny has proven that he is way out of his depth.

[sadloserkid]

Like I said, if you didn't notice the improvements with Barry involved, then you need to work on your observational skills.

The main point which I think you agree with though is that Kenny has proven that he is way out of his depth.

I'm not pro-Kenny at all and I think that some of the excuses offered up to defend the lowlights of his tenure are silly (especially the Covid one, it was a global pandemic after all) and I think failing to score in half his games is pretty abysmal. This is a lousy Irish team but I don't believe he's getting the best out of them and wouldn't miss him if he was to go.

All that said you offer absolutely nothing to any discussion here. You just parrot the same banal stock cliches over and over and over and over again with (whether intended or otherwise) all the monotony and tedium of a smug, determined martyr who seems to believe that they're defending a concept beyond the understanding of mere mortals. That's not the case and you being snide with people for not bowing down to you as some sort of footballing prophet rather than showing even a hint of flexibility just informs the theory that you're simply making noise. Infract me if needed for the above Tets, I'm more than happy to take one for the team.

Hilariously I can see absolutely no difference between your posting style and Kenny's team. No imagination, no variety, just a dogged persistance to a vague ideal with a terrifying lack of an end result and complete incomprehension of the failures of your approach.

[tetsujin1979]

I'm good.

[CraftyToePoke]

I'm good.

He might need another and longer holiday Tets. I see less and less of the posters, of all opinions, I and others have frequented this place for twenty years to speak to & this coincides directly with a small few who come on here to say only one thing about one subject & adding nothing to even that one discussion.

[Stuttgart88]

Well said Razor. Our game was crying out for a 10. Parrott was given a similar role to the one he played at home to Azerbaijan and he was out of the game both times. When we haven't played with an advanced playmaker Robinson used to drop deep and play that role - think of his goal against Qatar where he was involved several times in the move that eventually led to him being played in. I didn't notice him doing that yesterday at all.

I thought after 20 mins there was a comfortable win on the cards for us if we just eradicated the sloppiness but instead the sloppiness got progressively worse. I thought the first half tempo was too slow but I wondered if it was partly strategic, to keep more in the tank for the second half in high temperatures, but no, it was just a flat, slow, careless performance from start to finish with no player coming close to an acceptable level of performance. Tactical mistake not playing Parrot just ahead of the midfield two nothwithstanding, maybe it's time of year (several sides had unexpectedly bad results), maybe it's the travel, maybe it's the heat or maybe they just needed a right boot up the arse which never came. There was a real disappointing lack of leadership on the pitch last night. We played like we were entitled to a goal, not like we had to earn one.

This is a right hammer blow for Kenny alright but let's see how we react. I maintain that the re-boot Kenny is trying to execute is needed. He may or may not be the guy to do it but someone has to.

As for Anthony Barry, how have Belgium done since he joined their set up? :)

[Jd2793]

what a bizarre use of ogbene yesterday i cant get my head around it at all.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

Ireland record under Kenny:

Played: 23
Won: 5
Drawn: 10
Lost: 8
Goals scored: 24
Goals conceded: 23

With Barry involved:

Played: 12
Won: 4
Drawn: 5
Lost: 3
Goals scored: 19
Goals conceded: 10

Without Barry involved:

Played: 11
Won: 1
Drawn: 5
Lost: 5
Goals scored: 5
Goals conceded: 13

No matter what way you look at it, it's a pretty abysmal record but a clear difference with and without Barry. When you compare it with the McCarthy era you can see just how bad the Kenny reign has been. And McCarthy's reign was looked on as a poor one!

[Bielsa´s irish]

Ireland record under Kenny:

Played: 23
Won: 5
Drawn: 10
Lost: 8
Goals scored: 24
Goals conceded: 23

With Barry involved:

Played: 12
Won: 4
Drawn: 5
Lost: 3
Goals scored: 19
Goals conceded: 10

Without Barry involved:

Played: 11
Won: 1
Drawn: 5
Lost: 5
Goals scored: 5
Goals conceded: 13

No matter what way you look at it, it's a pretty abysmal record but a clear difference with and without Barry. When you compare it with the McCarthy era you can see just how bad the Kenny reign has been. And McCarthy's reign was looked on as a poor one!
Irelands main problem is upfront, and if the results are not coming, he may need to try younsters upfront, I wouldn't have left Shane Long out for presence and attitude, nor Connolly since he is getting on , and I would add Coventry, Lee O'Connor Bagan and Smallbone for the senior squad, Ireland must try youngsters as the welsh did , the Europa League games arent that vital but its a chance to check your form, like friendly matches with some importance, for me the main things are both the qualies.

[Jd2793]

Irelands main problem is upfront, and if the results are not coming, he may need to try younsters upfront, I wouldn't have left Shane Long out for presence and attitude, nor Connolly since he is getting on , and I would add Coventry, Lee O'Connor Bagan and Smallbone for the senior squad, Ireland must try youngsters as the welsh did , the Europa League games arent that vital but its a chance to check your form, like friendly matches with some importance, for me the main things are both the qualies.

coventry and o'connor not good enough. we need kilkenny getting club games , he looks a lot better than coventry. we desperately need another player with a bit of nous in the middle

[Diggs246]

I don't want to bore everyone to death but Dan Crowley? Eligible?. and if so good enough?

Maybe like on Saturday. He might have helped in last 20 mins to change formation to gave a 10 behind and out and out stricker

[ifk101]

I think the reaction has been a tad OTT, and I’d rather reserve full judgement until after the next three games. Agree the result is not good enough but the performance wasn’t that bad, although admittedly lacking the tempo and urgency to win a competitive game. We created chances to score and had long period of comfort and control. However, our dead balls deliveries were poor, and our set plays lacked imagination to capitalise on our aerial strength. Our substitutions had no impact. And Kelleher has to save that.

The result aside, we are in a far better position than where we started under Kenny. The strength of the squad is improved, there is a nice complementary balance there, and we do have genuine pace and a X factor in the forward line that we didn’t previously have. Ogbene is an absolute find for us. Whatever happens with Kenny going forward, the squad he has assembled gives reason for optimism.

[irishultra]

I think the reaction has been a tad OTT, and I’d rather reserve full judgement until after the next three games. Agree the result is not good enough but the performance wasn’t that bad, although admittedly lacking the tempo and urgency to win a competitive game. We created chances to score and had long period of comfort and control. However, our dead balls deliveries were poor, and our set plays lacked imagination to capitalise on our aerial strength. Our substitutions had no impact. And Kelleher has to save that.

The result aside, we are in a far better position than where we started under Kenny. The strength of the squad is improved, there is a nice complementary balance there, and we do have genuine pace and a X factor in the forward line that we didn’t previously have. Ogbene is an absolute find for us. Whatever happens with Kenny going forward, the squad he has assembled gives reason for optimism.

The problem with football is that it's relative. The players aren't good enough to bring Ireland up a level; they might be decent with different qualities than the usual Irish teams(more speed) but other teams are getting better as well, you're only as good as the teams you're up against. I don't see our team being good enough in the near or long term to move up a level or two. These things can change though but we look like a team in terminal decline. It can happen, I see Bulgaria lost 5-2 to Georgia at home, they qualified for the Euros in 04 and the last thing I remember was them just kicking Swedish players off the pitch knowing they were out. Nearly 20 years later they haven't been back to a major tournament. At this stage, qualifying for the World Cup is a true measure of a European countries football success, the Euro's is still a great tournament but even poor sides can qualify.

[ifk101]

We have been in decline for 20 odd years but I think we're turned a corner. We don't have a Robbie Keane/ Damien Duff creative star quality to build a team around, see Norway here with Ødegaard/ Haaland, but collectively the squad is getting better imo and would argue there is changing positivity/ belief in our approach to games. I'm optimistic about the future. :-)

[CSAD]

The problem with football is that it's relative. The players aren't good enough to bring Ireland up a level; they might be decent with different qualities than the usual Irish teams(more speed) but other teams are getting better as well, you're only as good as the teams you're up against. I don't see our team being good enough in the near or long term to move up a level or two. These things can change though but we look like a team in terminal decline. It can happen, I see Bulgaria lost 5-2 to Georgia at home, they qualified for the Euros in 04 and the last thing I remember was them just kicking Swedish players off the pitch knowing they were out. Nearly 20 years later they haven't been back to a major tournament. At this stage, qualifying for the World Cup is a true measure of a European countries football success, the Euro's is still a great tournament but even poor sides can qualify.

Well that’s all you’re ever going to see when you are a glass half empty sort of person.

[Trequartista20]

Before the match, due to the conditions, distances involved and the lengthy gap for many of the players between the end of their club seasons and this fixture, I expected to see a certain ring-rustiness and lack of sharpness in our play until we got into our stride. And this was borne out in our first half performance; we started slowly but improved as the half wore on - the final twenty or so minutes before half-time wasn't actually too bad. I fully expected the team to go out in the second half, really take the game by the scruff of the neck and get the goal we needed to open the game up.

Instead the opposite was true; Armenia started to take more control - underscored by the spectacular goal they had chalked off for offside - and I could see belief building in the Armenians that despite losing their previous game 9-0, Ireland were, in fact, no great shakes, and they could actually get a result on the day. We just couldn't respond, Kenny didn't make the changes that were obviously needed and the inevitable happened.

I thought both wingbacks were poor. Stevens - a doubt before the game - didn't look match-fit and Coleman looked like you'd expect a veteran coming off the back of a gruelling relegation battle to look. Were they really the best choices in the 30-plus degree heat?

The front three were deeply unimpressive. Parrott and Ogbene didn't dovetail with the wingbacks as you'd hope and they instead seemed to impede each other. We needed a focal point to our attack, ideally a genuine number 9 with a physical presence. Robinson isn't either of those things. His best position is coming off the left in a 4-2-3-1/4-3-3.

Cullen offered nothing in a creative or attacking sense. Hendrick ran out of steam after 50 minutes or so and this wasn't addressed nearly early enough. Collins and Egan contributed almost nil to our attack. Collins was sloppy in possession and Egan didn't look comfortable. We need a left-footed player on the left-hand side of defence in games like this where we expect to have the bulk of possession.

The shape just didn't work.

People often cite the lack of quality players at the coach's disposal when examining our failings, and of course there's a lot of truth in that. But the reality is that Kenny was outthought by his opposite number on Saturday.

Shorn of their retired star man Mhkitaryan, the vast majority of the Armenian squad play in the Armenian league - ranked behind the leagues of Lithuania, Moldova, Kosovo, Luxembourg and, yes, the League of Ireland.

There's no excuse for what happened the other day.

[Stuttgart88]

I don't want to bore everyone to death but Dan Crowley? Eligible?. and if so good enough?

Maybe like on Saturday. He might have helped in last 20 mins to change formation to gave a 10 behind and out and out strickerIsn't Connor Ronan more like the kind of player needed to unlock a packed deep-lying defence? Parrott should have been used in that type of role though, so it's not like there wasn't anyone like that available to us.

[irishultra]

Before the match, due to the conditions, distances involved and the lengthy gap for many of the players between the end of their club seasons and this fixture, I expected to see a certain ring-rustiness and lack of sharpness in our play until we got into our stride. And this was borne out in our first half performance; we started slowly but improved as the half wore on - the final twenty or so minutes before half-time wasn't actually too bad. I fully expected the team to go out in the second half, really take the game by the scruff of the neck and get the goal we needed to open the game up.

Instead the opposite was true; Armenia started to take more control - underscored by the spectacular goal they had chalked off for offside - and I could see belief building in the Armenians that despite losing their previous game 9-0, Ireland were, in fact, no great shakes, and they could actually get a result on the day. We just couldn't respond, Kenny didn't make the changes that were obviously needed and the inevitable happened.

I thought both wingbacks were poor. Stevens - a doubt before the game - didn't look match-fit and Coleman looked like you'd expect a veteran coming off the back of a gruelling relegation battle to look. Were they really the best choices in the 30-plus degree heat?

The front three were deeply unimpressive. Parrott and Ogbene didn't dovetail with the wingbacks as you'd hope and they instead seemed to impede each other. We needed a focal point to our attack, ideally a genuine number 9 with a physical presence. Robinson isn't either of those things. His best position is coming off the left in a 4-2-3-1/4-3-3.

Cullen offered nothing in a creative or attacking sense. Hendrick ran out of steam after 50 minutes or so and this wasn't addressed nearly early enough. Collins and Egan contributed almost nil to our attack. Collins was sloppy in possession and Egan didn't look comfortable. We need a left-footed player on the left-hand side of defence in games like this where we expect to have the bulk of possession.

The shape just didn't work.

People often cite the lack of quality players at the coach's disposal when examining our failings, and of course there's a lot of truth in that. But the reality is that Kenny was outthought by his opposite number on Saturday.

Shorn of their retired star man Mhkitaryan, the vast majority of the Armenian squad play in the Armenian league - ranked behind the leagues of Lithuania, Moldova, Kosovo, Luxembourg and, yes, the League of Ireland.

There's no excuse for what happened the other day.

Kenny could have some LOI players who are at peak fitness in the first 11 but instead slavish obsession with English football means he picks players who are coming off 46 game league campaigns and relegation battles.

[Jd2793]

Kenny could have some LOI players who are at peak fitness in the first 11 but instead slavish obsession with English football means he picks players who are coming off 46 game league campaigns and relegation battles.

you are deranged if you think theres enough good loi players to make a difference at international level.

[Trequartista20]

Is it confirmed that Sykes is injured? Someone on YBIG claimed he was but I can't find verification. He would at least provide something different.

We're in desperate need of creativity, someone capable of the unexpected - a moment of magic. But obviously those sort of players are in short supply.

Would Mandriou have been a useful option?

[Stuttgart88]

Is it confirmed that Sykes is injured? Someone on YBIG claimed he was but I can't find verification. He would at least provide something different.

We're in desperate need of creativity, someone capable of the unexpected - a moment of magic. But obviously those sort of players are in short supply.

Would Mandriou have been a useful option?
Sykes is injured, yes.

Mandroiu is a fair shout maybe but wouldn't you think Parrott is at least as good?

I think you can pick at selections and roles etc., but the fact is nobody played even to 6/10 standard.

[irishultra]

you are deranged if you think theres enough good loi players to make a difference at international level.

Well the post above suggests that the Armenian League is below the LOI and they beat us. Admittedly is a 21 year old goal scorer playing in Russia who probably has more flair in his toe than the entire Irish team

[Jd2793]

A fit jack byrne would be the only loi option i think. hes a lot better than mandriou but his workrate off the ball is probably something kenny would need improved. has sykes not moved to wing back this year? desperate for smallbone and kilkenny to kick on , badly need midfield options.

[Trequartista20]

Thanks for confirming re. Sykes.

I've come to believe Parrot's best position is as 10 or withdrawn striker. His touch, passing ability and finishing are good but I'm not sure he has the raw power or pace to be effective on the wing or as an out-and-out 9 at the highest level.

He needs to be playing more centrally, I think. Nominally he was playing as one of the 2 in a 3-4-2-1 on Saturday, but in reality he stuck out on the left a lot and made little impact against the massed ranks of the Armenian defence.

[Snapshot]

I think the reaction has been a tad OTT, and I’d rather reserve full judgement until after the next three games. Agree the result is not good enough but the performance wasn’t that bad, although admittedly lacking the tempo and urgency to win a competitive game. We created chances to score and had long period of comfort and control. However, our dead balls deliveries were poor, and our set plays lacked imagination to capitalise on our aerial strength. Our substitutions had no impact. And Kelleher has to save that.

The result aside, we are in a far better position than where we started under Kenny. The strength of the squad is improved, there is a nice complementary balance there, and we do have genuine pace and a X factor in the forward line that we didn’t previously have. Ogbene is an absolute find for us. Whatever happens with Kenny going forward, the squad he has assembled gives reason for optimism.
No, not OTT. It was a bone fide shocker. The first half was poor enough but the ship should have been steadied by a Kenny/Andrews tactical refresh at halftime. It didn't happen. We went from poor to atrocious after the resumption. A disaster on and off the pitch. Two good results this week can air-brush the damage, yes, but let's not polish this turd and call it anything other than a pitiful all-round effort against lowly opposition with embarrassing recent form.

[Jd2793]

Thanks for confirming re. Sykes.

I've come to believe Parrot's best position is as 10 or withdrawn striker. His touch, passing ability and finishing are good but I'm not sure he has the raw power or pace to be effective on the wing or as an out-and-out 9 at the highest level.

He needs to be playing more centrally, I think. Nominally he was playing as one of the 2 in a 3-4-2-1 on Saturday, but in reality he stuck out on the left a lot and made little impact against the massed ranks of the Armenian defence.

yeah thats what i dont get. ogbene was so central, parrott was so wide when if anything the roles should have been reversed. ogbene doesnt have the technical skills in those tight areas

[tetsujin1979]

What I didn't understand was that against a similarly set up Lithuania only three months ago, Parrott came on, played through the middle and made the difference with the late winner. Against Armenia, he was isolated as a wide-left striker, or at least that's what it looked like where he was playing to me, and outnumbered by a five man defence. So why not move him into the middle, and play him where he had scored in his last game?

[irishultra]

Thanks for confirming re. Sykes.

I've come to believe Parrot's best position is as 10 or withdrawn striker. His touch, passing ability and finishing are good but I'm not sure he has the raw power or pace to be effective on the wing or as an out-and-out 9 at the highest level.

He needs to be playing more centrally, I think. Nominally he was playing as one of the 2 in a 3-4-2-1 on Saturday, but in reality he stuck out on the left a lot and made little impact against the massed ranks of the Armenian defence.

To me, Parrott is just another Stokes. He probably got to his level because he developed before other players but now isn't developing enough physically or athletically to stand out. Apparently he's 6 foot 1, he doesn't appear that tall.

[pineapple stu]

Shorn of their retired star man Mhkitaryan, the vast majority of the Armenian squad play in the Armenian league - ranked behind the leagues of Lithuania, Moldova, Kosovo, Luxembourg and, yes, the League of Ireland.

There's no excuse for what happened the other day.
I think that's really valid. Alashkert of Armenia made the Conference League group stages last season - the first time an Armenian side ever made the group stages of Europe. They started by beating Connah's Quay in CL qualifying after extra time, and ended with one point in the group stages.

I don't think heat or end of season or a really weak squad by our usual standards count as an excuse in defending not just the result, but the performance. We deserved to lose. Their keeper hadn't a save of note to make. Even compare the composure of the finish for their offside goal with Robinson's rushed effort.

I thought we had been making progress with the results in Oct/Nov, but now I think we were just lucky to score early in those games and force the other side to open up. If we don't score, we simply don't know what to do.

And I don't really know how to fix it. I don't think motivation is an issue. I think Kenny isn't up to it, and I think the players probably aren't as good as we often think they are here. But it still shouldn't be this bad. The last two games are us back to rock bottom after a period of optimism.

Anyone know how all this impacts on seeding for the Euros in October btw? It's ten groups so I'm presuming we're looking at third seeds? I presume it would have taken a fairly good campaign here to rise to second seeds?

[paul_oshea]

If we win the group we are guaranteed second seeds , at this stage I don't think its clear what else we could do to get second.

I think circumstance will see us do very good against Ukraine and then back on track. But it doesn't take away from the fact we still really struggle to beat teams like Armenia. I �� agree with you on the other games as well, if we don't score early it becomes a desperate(management and players), immature( players not having the guile/know how to take the game to the opposition in a meaningful way, perhaps unsure from management) and blunt (management tactical astuteness)performance

[ifk101]

What I didn't understand was that against a similarly set up Lithuania only three months ago, Parrott came on, played through the middle and made the difference with the late winner. Against Armenia, he was isolated as a wide-left striker, or at least that's what it looked like where he was playing to me, and outnumbered by a five man defence. So why not move him into the middle, and play him where he had scored in his last game?

Not against the suggestion of playing him more centrally, but is this what really happened against Lithuania? He starting position when he came on was on the left of the attack, this changed to the right when Knight came on, and for the sequence of play prior to the goal, he had simply drifted into a more central position from the right. But more generally, don't think the positions of the front three are intended to be fixed, especially when the wing backs are advanced to offer width.

[Stuttgart88]

Well either way, someone like him and Robinson needed to just be brave enough to take responsibility to get on the ball where they think they can make an impact. I didn't see that on Saturday or against Azerbaijan at home, whereas I did see it against Qatar (Robinson), Andorra and Lithuania (both Parrott).

[ifk101]

I don't know. The tactics/ formation has been pretty consistent for a while now. So was the slow and lethargic tempo, and the lack of the fluidity of previous games (for example, saw little of the CBs floating into attack as previously), down to players being effectively out of season and the "conditions"?

[pineapple stu]

The slow and lethargic tempo has been consistent for a while too in fairness.

Azerbaijan and Qatar in particular were changed completely by us scoring in the first five minutes.

[Bielsa´s irish]

What I didn't understand was that against a similarly set up Lithuania only three months ago, Parrott came on, played through the middle and made the difference with the late winner. Against Armenia, he was isolated as a wide-left striker, or at least that's what it looked like where he was playing to me, and outnumbered by a five man defence. So why not move him into the middle, and play him where he had scored in his last game?
Totally agree he was restricted by the line and then hooked off, I would get Robinson and Ogbene on the sides a Parrott as 9. But on Wednesday we need a true 9. Even Hogan can play the way Kieffer did yesterday and Hogan is a better player

[ifk101]

The slow and lethargic tempo has been consistent for a while too in fairness.

Azerbaijan and Qatar in particular were changed completely by us scoring in the first five minutes.

We have been holding onto the ball more for a while now, so in that sense there has been a slow and lethargic tempo consistency in us passing the ball rather than lumping it up the field. But I think there is a tempo difference in the past year, that was absent on Saturday, compared to, for example, the tempo of play during the last Nations League campaign. And yes, goals do change games.

[pineapple stu]

I'm not so sure.

The first hour in Andorra and Luxembourg were brutal stuff. Home against Azerbaijan and Lithuania were dreadful. Slow, ponderous and unimaginative each time. As bad as anything in the Nations League for me. (Slovakia away was vaguely decent I thought; the exception really)

Games against better sides (Serbia/Portugal) are different because they're not sitting back against us, so we can get more attacking space. They're also better than us of course.

[ifk101]

No, I disagree. I think there has been a lot more positional movement and energy than seen on Saturday. But as I said in a previous post, I’d like reserve full judgement until after the next three games. Not sure the magnitude of the Barry influence in our turnaround last year, maybe after the next three games will know.

[tetsujin1979]

Not against the suggestion of playing him more centrally, but is this what really happened against Lithuania? He starting position when he came on was on the left of the attack, this changed to the right when Knight came on, and for the sequence of play prior to the goal, he had simply drifted into a more central position from the right. But more generally, don't think the positions of the front three are intended to be fixed, especially when the wing backs are advanced to offer width.
I meant if he was not effective playing in the withdrawn role against a team who were packing the defence, why persist with him up front against five defenders?
I made the same point about Obafemi - he came on and played in the same position, but was equally ineffective.
What's the definition of madness, again?

[Stuttgart88]

We have been holding onto the ball more for a while now, so in that sense there has been a slow and lethargic tempo consistency in us passing the ball rather than lumping it up the field. But I think there is a tempo difference in the past year, that was absent on Saturday, compared to, for example, the tempo of play during the last Nations League campaign. And yes, goals do change games.
I think we missed the urgency and leadership that Doherty brings, and of course his quality. He got forward into dangerous positions in a few of our recent games. I think Stevens has generally been very solid for us but I thought he was especially awful on Saturday. Maybe their 5 at the back negated our wing backs but I thought he was ponderous and careless. His time may be coming to an end. I was surprised Ebosele didn't make the match day squad. I like the disruption he beings to games and I think he'd have been an option from the bench and in a few possible positions.