Armenia V Republic of Ireland - Saturday, 4th June 2022 - 2022/23 UEFA Nations League

[SkStu]

Fairy nuff. Hard to argue against that really. I just don't see it happening.

We're in relegation trouble again.

I’m not overly optimistic either but as I said it’s the return that is needed to keep the faith.

Though I know what you mean given were now in the relegation spot :), I’m not sure we’re in relegation trouble. I still see us outdoing Armenia for points over the course of the campaign.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

Time to get rid of this joke of a manager. Surely everyone has realised that at this stage?

[Razors left peg]

Time to get rid of this joke of a manager. Surely everyone has realised that at this stage?
And out of the weeds he comes :D

[tetsujin1979]

BS, Paul, and Weldoninho all posting again. Definitely an international window.

[pineapple stu]

I don’t either but think it’s needed, I don’t think it’s impossible, While at the moment Ukraine and Scotland are better than us they aren’t great sides and if we play like we didn’t versus Portugal or Serbia we have a shot of winning either game albeit it won’t be easy. Thankfully we have Ukraine 2 days after the WC play off so they may be drained and we might have a shot of catching them cold.
I think we need to acknowledge that Portugal weren't interested in Lansdowne and Serbia battered us until they scored a farcical own goal.

I wouldn't fancy the chances of a repeat of those performances allowing us a win sadly.

I agree neither Ukraine or Scotland (or Portugal or Serbia) are great sides and I agree it's unlikely but technically not impossible we could win

We really need some sort of result in Tuesday as a response to today.

[pineapple stu]

BS, Paul, and Weldoninho all posting again. Definitely an international window.
And BOOMERS too

[joey B]

Hard to defend Kenny after that and I’ve always been a fan and was optimistic for him,I’m not optimistic for his future as Ireland manager anymore ,but I hope I’m wrong….

[pineapple stu]

Though I know what you mean given were now in the relegation spot :), I’m not sure we’re in relegation trouble. I still see us outdoing Armenia for points over the course of the campaign.
I think you're right. But it'd just take another frustrating draw at home to Armenia and we've a lot of catching up to do. And we're well capable of a frustrating draw, sadly

[paul_oshea]

Razors kind of hit the nail there , he's not learning and adapting I think he did intially when he took over out with the old and in with the new but he learnt the hardway that was the wrong approach, but he hasn't adapted his system or tactical nous. When all you have is a hammer everything is a nail. We could beat Ukraine with space and who are open but we could draw again with Armenia in September. So what do we want?

[Trequartista20]

Eleven Nations League games (obviously not all under Kenny) without a win and only two goals scored.

Only four other teams (including San Marino and Andorra) have failed to win in this time. Only San Marino have scored fewer goals than us.

[TrapAPony]

Eleven Nations League games (obviously not all under Kenny) without a win and only two goals scored.

Only four other teams (including San Marino and Andorra) have failed to win in this time. Only San Marino have scored fewer goals than us.

So much for the tiki-taka football Stephen Kenny was supposed to bring.

[lofty9]

I thought it was a 5pm ko. Didn't miss much then!

[Bielsa´s irish]

Obviously the problems are in the final parcel. Today we should have won. The all merry I don't like, but I wouldn't panic, we need a Francis Stapleton kind of fellow up front the type of job Lautaro Martinéz is doing for Argentina

[pineapple stu]

RTÉ not putting much effort in with their player ratings (https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2022/0604/1303047-player-ratings-sloppiness-and-frustration-in-yerevan/). 5s for everyone except Kelleher (6), Ogbene (6) and Collins (7)

I suppose in their defence, it's hard to pick one player who particularly let us down.

[Diggs246]

His contract was up in July. Seriously FFS
We should still have 3 games to decide whether to keep him or not. But for no sane reason we give him a new contract, with zero pressure on us.
Now we have him until 2024 and he isn't good enough.

[CSAD]

I think we need to acknowledge that Portugal weren't interested in Lansdowne and Serbia battered us until they scored a farcical own goal.

I wouldn't fancy the chances of a repeat of those performances allowing us a win sadly.

I agree neither Ukraine or Scotland (or Portugal or Serbia) are great sides and I agree it's unlikely but technically not impossible we could win

We really need some sort of result in Tuesday as a response to today.

Well to be fair a not so interested Portugal side is still better than Ukraine or Scotland. Serbia at home I’d agree although I don’t know if Ukraine or Scotland could do to us what Serbia so I think we’d have more time on the ball in this case. But also the away performance’s were good also, and funny enough Kenny had the same issues with the U21s, beating Sweden twice and then losing to Iceland and struggling against Armenia.

If Kenny can win the two home games and get a point in Łódź then I think it probably covers up the Armenia loss abit.

[Eirambler]

His contract was up in July. Seriously FFS
We should still have 3 games to decide whether to keep him or not. But for no sane reason we give him a new contract, with zero pressure on us.
Now we have him until 2024 and he isn't good enough.

He could still be gone in July. There's a get out for the FAI after the Nations League I think. So they'd only have to pay a few more month's wages to get rid if this situation continues and we don't start winning games in the next 10 days.

[Diggs246]

He could still be gone in July. There's a get out for the FAI after the Nations League I think. So they'd only have to pay a few more month's wages to get rid if this situation continues and we don't start winning games in the next 10 days.

Is that correct? Because that changes everything re contract?

[jbyrne]

a big step backwards. not good enough at all really.
very disappointing

[pineapple stu]

Well to be fair a not so interested Portugal side is still better than Ukraine or Scotland. Serbia at home I’d agree although I don’t know if Ukraine or Scotland could do to us what Serbia so I think we’d have more time on the ball in this case. But also the away performance’s were good also
We got outplayed completely in Serbia too. Portugal could have been worse if they'd scored that early peno but to be fair we put in a good defensive shift so yeah, that was a better performance.

I absolutely agree seven points now will atone for today. But even allowing for the fact that we may have more room to play into in those games, I'm not seeing anything in our form under Kenny (or further back in fairness to him) to suggest we'll manage it.

Happy to be proven wrong of course!

[joey B]

We can only hope Ukraine play a bit of a second team on Wednesday because they’ve a huge game tomorrow and hope Scotland maybe do the same,I still wouldn’t be confident watching us today….

[Razors left peg]

His contract was up in July. Seriously FFS
We should still have 3 games to decide whether to keep him or not. But for no sane reason we give him a new contract, with zero pressure on us.
Now we have him until 2024 and he isn't good enough.
I'll bite.... if the manager isn't good enough but the players are who would you like to take over.

What manager do you see out there that is available and you trust to get the most out of the players we have coming through in the next 2-4 years?

[Bielsa´s irish]

The problem is all Kenny's poor results are coming against low ranked teams because they sit back in numbers and we struggle to break that down. It's happening again and again and he's not learning from it. Rather than just changing the players we need to make adjustments to the shape in games like that.


3 front players with 2 wide and 1 through the middle doesn't work because there's no space in behind. Adjust it to a front 2 with Parrott or Knight playing as a 10.


We just kept doing same over and over
The 3-4-1-2 is The answer. We dominated, we deserved a winner, since parrott was out we missed something, even though I would use Parrott as an impact player from The bench rather to replace him.

[Bielsa´s irish]

I thought we played very well The killing pass is not there, the front 3 play very separated from each other, the width comes from the rwb and lwb , the main problem is the final ball and Ogbene missed a few, Robinson is not a 9,/ nor Ogbene nor Parrott who can score but is more of a second striker. We can't afford not playing a 9.

[Diggs246]

I'll bite.... if the manager isn't good enough but the players are who would you like to take over.

What manager do you see out there that is available and you trust to get the most out of the players we have coming through in the next 2-4 years?

We can't keep someone who isn't good enough?.

Your philosophy infairs if we lose every game for the next 2 years we should keep him for 2026 WC Unless the candidate list jumps out.

Its insane.

[Bielsa´s irish]

We can't keep someone who isn't good enough?

Your philosophy infairs if we lose every game for the next 2 years we should keep him for 2026 WC Unless the candidate list jumps out.

Its insane.
It was showed today we were the better team by far, the problem is the clinical finishing, the stubborn of not playing with a Francis Stapleton kind of 9, and the missed chances. First half we played very good. If we play 3 up front one must be a 9

[SkStu]

The 3-4-1-2 is The answer. We dominated, we deserved a winner, since parrott was out we missed something, even though I would use Parrott as an impact player from The bench rather to replace him.

I agree about the 3-4-1-2 in theory but it’s a slight variation of what we currently do (more of a 3-4-2-1). If Obafemi is our 9 (not exactly in the Frank Stapleton mode but a 9 nonetheless) then we need a true 10 playing really close to him (like Piroe). That probably means Parrott in the absence of anyone else remotely capable of playing that type of position. Maddison would plug that gap…(can dream). This means you lose a spot for Ogbene unless you play him RWB.

[tetsujin1979]

https://www.the42.ie/stephen-kenny-59-5783290-Jun2022/

We studied Armenia’s last 20 games: they had never played five at the back before, only once against Germany. They always played 4-4-2.

Err, so they had played five at the back before?

[Razors left peg]

There's something that's being forgotten about in all this embarrassing result talk... the nations league is supposedly 4 teams equally matched in a group. Yeah we are better than Armenia and should be beating but they are in same group as us for a reason. We struggled to beat them before out there too. On another day we would have won that game today.

I still think we'll get good results in the next 3 games. We have improved even if today's result doesn't show it.

[SkStu]

https://www.the42.ie/stephen-kenny-59-5783290-Jun2022/


Err, so they had played five at the back before?

That’s a poor interview. He basically admits he got outplayed by their guy before the game and out coached at half time. I get more and more disappointed by that performance the more I study it. It’s still salvageable (big picture) but it’s also time to start consistently delivering performances and results.

[pineapple stu]

There's something that's being forgotten about in all this embarrassing result talk... the nations league is supposedly 4 teams equally matched in a group. Yeah we are better than Armenia and should be beating but they are in same group as us for a reason. We struggled to beat them before out there too. On another day we would have won that game today.

I still think we'll get good results in the next 3 games. We have improved even if today's result doesn't show it.
I think there's something in that - but since gaining promotion, their captain and best player has retired, they've lost 5-0 at home to North Macedonia, drawn at home to Liechtenstein, and of course lost 9-0 in Norway. They're the lowest-ranked side in League B. If we can't beat them, then don't really have any business being in League B ourselves.

And the problem is it's not the first time we've struggled against a side like them. Luxembourg at home, Azerbaijan at home, Lithuania at home, Luxembourg away for 65 minutes - it's been the same story each time.

I do think there'll be a bit of a bounce on Wednesday - not necessarily enough to win the game, but enough to put in a respectable performance - but that's not much good to us if we can't put away the sides ranked below us.

[Razors left peg]

As I said I think we do struggle against teams that sit back and we definitely have to improve on thar. Against better teams we are pretty good

[Bielsa´s irish]

I think there's something in that - but since gaining promotion, their captain and best player has retired, they've lost 5-0 at home to North Macedonia, drawn at home to Liechtenstein, and of course lost 9-0 in Norway. They're the lowest-ranked side in League B. If we can't beat them, then don't really have any business being in League B ourselves.

And the problem is it's not the first time we've struggled against a side like them. Luxembourg at home, Azerbaijan at home, Lithuania at home, Luxembourg away for 65 minutes - it's been the same story each time.

I do think there'll be a bit of a bounce on Wednesday - not necessarily enough to win the game, but enough to put in a respectable performance - but that's not much good to us if we can't put away the sides ranked below us.

Lads again I watched The game in Buenos Aires, we made mistakes up front I catched The match At 12 minutes that had started. We dominated them, they played very cagey. Our main problem is upfront, ogbene is not Frank Stapleton who would have had a hattrick At halftime in his prime with those chances donkey Ogbene missed, Ogbene' game is on The sides beat the man and create but he is not a 9 and he is not a goalscorer he could score. What if he had a Shane Long he is not there for Colllins At half time. When Kenny fell in love with The stalement is when they scored. If there is something to blame Kenny is his lack of ambition to kill off The match. There is still a place for someone like Shane Long after this, we cant play without a true 9. Kenny's Eire played good football until where it matters, I would even try Manning as playmaker as how things are, we need to reshuffle it to a 3-4-1-2 I would try Ogbene where he can affect The game, on The sides, one more thing on Ogbene, The way he was disspossed of The ball one on one with The last defender it demostrate he is not a 9. We didnt even shield The ball for a penalty

[passinginterest]

I think Razor has summed up a lot of my thoughts on it in his last few posts. One of the frustrating things about Kenny is his reluctance to change things or have a plan B (feels like we’ve been saying that since the Trap days anyway). He sets up a particular way and he doesn’t seem to be learning to make dynamic changes. The subs always seem to be that little too late and like for like, even if they’re slightly different players coming in. Knight coming on could have allowed a change to more of a front 2 with him behind but he just went into the same spot as Parrot.

The really frustrating thing is, they’ll almost certainly be much better against Scotland and Ukraine and 4 or even 6 points wouldn’t be a massive shock. As Razor has said, Armenia are in the same league as us, so they’re meant to be around our level. Yet, for long spells we cruised through the game and hardly gave up a chance. We’ve long struggled to put the ball in the net and that was the downfall again. There’s quick exciting talent coming through, which is great against better teams who play higher up, but those are the very players that can be shut down with a team playing deep. We lack a pure goal poacher and worse a genuine creative midfielder who would be the idea players against a team sitting so deep. Even at that, we had something like 26 crosses according to LiveScore, they weren’t all punts into the box either, in the first half especially there was a few really dangerous ones where we broke their lines but the finish just didn’t come. That’s the type of play we lacked completely in the last five years, when set pieces seemed to be our only chances. Set pieces still look our best chances now, but at least there’s something else being created.

It’s a horrible result. Another box set back, but there was good progress in the previous games and there’s potential now to bounce back again. No doubt Kenny is under pressure with anything less than 5 points from the next three games.

[Bielsa´s irish]

I think Razor has summed up a lot of my thoughts on it in his last few posts. One of the frustrating things about Kenny is his reluctance to change things or have a plan B (feels like we’ve been saying that since the Trap days anyway). He sets up a particular way and he doesn’t seem to be learning to make dynamic changes. The subs always seem to be that little too late and like for like, even if they’re slightly different players coming in. Knight coming on could have allowed a change to more of a front 2 with him behind but he just went into the same spot as Parrot.

The really frustrating thing is, they’ll almost certainly be much better against Scotland and Ukraine and 4 or even 6 points wouldn’t be a massive shock. As Razor has said, Armenia are in the same league as us, so they’re meant to be around our level. Yet, for long spells we cruised through the game and hardly gave up a chance. We’ve long struggled to put the ball in the net and that was the downfall again. There’s quick exciting talent coming through, which is great against better teams who play higher up, but those are the very players that can be shut down with a team playing deep. We lack a pure goal poacher and worse a genuine creative midfielder who would be the idea players against a team sitting so deep. Even at that, we had something like 26 crosses according to LiveScore, they weren’t all punts into the box either, in the first half especially there was a few really dangerous ones where we broke their lines but the finish just didn’t come. That’s the type of play we lacked completely in the last five years, when set pieces seemed to be our only chances. Set pieces still look our best chances now, but at least there’s something else being created.

It’s a horrible result. Another box set back, but there was good progress in the previous games and there’s potential now to bounce back again. No doubt Kenny is under pressure with anything less than 5 points from the next three games.

But we have the players he is just missplacing them. Ronan should start there with Long Ogbene and Robinson, Robinson is not a fighter wouldnt say he is a coward but he is not the player to fight back the center backs, Kenny should have subbed on a striker for a defender after 60 minutes, his lack of bit of ambition is what worries me more, he fell in love with a draw,

He have the players he is just missusing them. Today I would have meant a lot with Ronan and Shane Long on the pitch.

[tetsujin1979]

Ronan is injured and unavailable.
If you want to comment on the Ukraine game on Wednesday, please post a link to any evidence that it will be broadcast in Argentina beforehand

[paul_oshea]

I think there's something in that - but since gaining promotion, their captain and best player has retired, they've lost 5-0 at home to North Macedonia, drawn at home to Liechtenstein, and of course lost 9-0 in Norway. They're the lowest-ranked side in League B. If we can't beat them, then don't really have any business being in League B ourselves.

And the problem is it's not the first time we've struggled against a side like them. Luxembourg at home, Azerbaijan at home, Lithuania at home, Luxembourg away for 65 minutes - it's been the same story each time.

I do think there'll be a bit of a bounce on Wednesday - not necessarily enough to win the game, but enough to put in a respectable performance - but that's not much good to us if we can't put away the sides ranked below us.

I watched that liechtenstein as I mentioned and similarities with what they did to Armenia , Armenia did to us today but Armenia were much better at it - and capable of scoring. But no ones going to know that right? And no one's going to care all that people see is the result. And that's all that matters , it's a results business in international football. Our results have really been poor, what positive result sticks out that we haven't achieved for years on end? Now what negative result? Very many unfortunately. We didnt look any more likely today to score than we did against Bulgaria way back at the start of his nations league reign. But armenia and Luxembourg and Azerbaijan had that bit more than Bulgaria when it came to actually attacking intent and how to go about it.

You can say all day long how we held out for 80odd minutes against a very inconsistent Portugal and drew with Serbia. But we were well outplayed in both of those games


What good is a bounce really ? In 2 years we havent come any further than showing we're not guaranteed a good result or even performance against a much weaker nation

[Bielsa´s irish]

Ronan is injured and unavailable.
If you want to comment on the Ukraine game on Wednesday, please post a link to any evidence that it will be broadcast in Argentina beforehand

Futbol libre on internet. But if you pay directv the broadcasted it today for free. I will check that on wednesday and I will give you the link if needed.

[Bielsa´s irish]

I watched that liechtenstein as I mentioned and similarities with what they did to Armenia , Armenia did to us today but Armenia were much better at it - and capable of scoring. But no ones going to know that right? And no one's going to care all that people see is the result. And that's all that matters , it's a results business in international football. Our results have really been poor, what positive result sticks out that we haven't achieved for years on end? Now what negative result? Very many unfortunately. We didnt look any more likely today to score than we did against Bulgaria way back at the start of his nations league reign. But armenia and Luxembourg and Azerbaijan had that bit more than Bulgaria when it came to actually attacking intent and how to go about it.

You can say all day long how we held out for 80odd minutes against a very inconsistent Portugal and drew with Serbia. But we were well outplayed in both of those games


What good is a bounce really ? In 2 years we havent come any further than showing we're not guaranteed a good result or even performance against a much weaker nation

England lost Italy and Germany are dreadful to watch.
Irish fellows, inconsistency and inefficiency to create and score goals at this level is paid very expensively. Didnt know Ronan was out injured, well promote Smallbone now.

[sadloserkid]

As I said I think we do struggle against teams that sit back and we definitely have to improve on thar. Against better teams we are pretty good

We do seem to struggle more against the lesser teams but we're not beating the better ones either (and that's been an issue LONG before Kenny obviously). I hope I'm completely proven wrong here and feel free to rub my face in it if so but I think it's bringing optimism to the point of lunacy to see this team as capable of picking up anywhere close to 7 points from the next 3 games. I can't see any way we'll get more than 4 and I wouldn't be shocked if it was half that.

[SkStu]

We can't keep someone who isn't good enough?.

Your philosophy infairs if we lose every game for the next 2 years we should keep him for 2026 WC Unless the candidate list jumps out.

Its insane.

No. It’s a fair question when the FAI is broke. Naming a better, viable replacement for him has to be part of the conversation for those who want him gone now.

[tetsujin1979]

We seemed to have a plan A of playing through the inside left/right channel and then either shooting or crossing for the opposite forward to shoot. Armenia figured this out early, so manned the channels and denied the opposite player space to restrict chances. Other than Robinson's miscued shot, and Ogbene's free header, I don't think we created a clear goalscoring opportunity.
But, there was no plan B. The substitutes did not offer anything different that to the players that they replaced. McClean was not allowed to cross from the wing, so the balls he did put in were harmless.
Obafemi either did nothing or was so isolated he couldn't do anything, same as Parrott before him.
I think Keane and Browne were brought on to win headers - Browne has two headed goals, Kenny has spoken about Keane's ability in the air in press conferences - but I don't think either won anything in the air.
Duffy was pushed up front late on, which is sheer desperation in my opinion.

We are still so maddeningly inconsistent under Kenny. Play well against Serbia, lose to Luxembourg. Play well against Portugal, struggle to a point against Azerbaijan.
And now, after pushing Belgium hard and earning a win against a dogged Lithuania, we lose to Armenia. Form is temporary, class is permanent, and we're still not sure which is which under this manager.

Kenny earned some respite from the criticism in the first year of his reign with some good performances in the second half of last year, but if we play like that again on Wednesday against Ukraine then the knives will be back out.

[jbyrne]

to me this is worse than luxembourg at home. my expectations were quite low then and the result not a total shock. was at the 21s game last night and while the performance was just ok the result was great and all the talk around me was that after 2 u21s campaigns were we were competitive and the recent seniors improvement that we were on the way back. todays result is therefore a massive disappointment and has burst my bubble considerably

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

Losing Anthony Barry was huge. We were developing with him involved. We should have done everything to keep him. Gave him the top job and got rid of Kenny.

We all wanted Kenny to do well, some of us realised that he's way out of his depth a long time ago however. It's time for others, including many in the media to swallow their pride and admit they got it wrong with Kenny.

He is doing untold damage that could take years to recover from. How many more failures and embarrassing results have to happen before he's shown the door or how far down the rankings do we need to fall?

[SkStu]

One final comment on the game that i forgot to share earlier. Its not an excuse at all but I thought the referee was diabolical and screwed us over a few times. Definitely seemed like a bit of a homer.

[Razors left peg]

Losing Anthony Barry was huge. We were developing with him involved. We should have done everything to keep him. Gave him the top job and got rid of Kenny.

We all wanted Kenny to do well, some of us realised that he's way out of his depth a long time ago however. It's time for others, including many in the media to swallow their pride and admit they got it wrong with Kenny.

He is doing untold damage that could take years to recover from. How many more failures and embarrassing results have to happen before he's shown the door or how far down the rankings do we need to fall?

Ah there we go, was worried you weren't gonna bring up Barry

[geysir]

There's a big thing made about cullen being this kind of all round midfielder, but we've conceded these goals so often,he's clearly not closing the space like some would lead you to believe. I was never a Whelan fan but he did cover that space well

I'm genuinely interested to see the "greenshoots"( dare I say spin) from this one regardless of this result.

It's been shocking
That's fine but what are you saying, Cullen is not good enough to be in our midfield, if so should he be replaced and if so by who?
Considering midfield is also being populated by Hendrick and substitute McClean who imo should not be near the team, who do you think should replace those players?

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

Ah there we go, was worried you weren't gonna bring up Barry

Maybe you and others were wrong and Barry was responsible for the upturn in performances? You ignored the rest of my comment for some reason.

[pineapple stu]

How did Belgium do this week? Biggest competitive home defeat in 25 years I believe?

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

How did Belgium do this week? Biggest home defeat in 14 years I believe?

Results and performances for Ireland is all I care about. Do you dispute that things improved with Barry involved?

I've said previously, it wasn't perfect but at least Barry could set up a team. Kenny is clueless, the Armenian manager made an absolute show of him. Kenny couldn't figure out how to counteract some basic tactics. Maybe when he does he can give his media pals another demo in FAI headquarters.

Armenia lost 9-0 in their last game and Liechtenstein drew with them away recently. Why isn't Kenny getting destroyed in the media? Why aren't supporters calling for him to go?