UEFA Euro 2028

[seanfhear]

Sure there will be a United Ireland by 2028 anyway (Wink)

And maybe even a Queen MaryLou of Ireland.

[EalingGreen]

Why not lobby for a Windsor Park exception, on the points raised above? Or is UEFA more likely to make an exception for a proposed, non-existent GAA stadium with the required capacity, rather than an existing stadium with a below requirement capacity?

Your comparisons don't work.
Re Russia, Putin bought the tournament (literally), so when he said temporay seating to bring Ekaterinburg to 35k capacity was good enough for him, then it was good enough for FIFA, no argument.
Re. Portugal, there simply was no viable 9th location for a 30k stadium anywhere in the country, whereas Porto is a top footballing city, with two professional clubs, meaning the exception was made.
Whereas if Belfast/Windsor/Casement cannot meet the required criteria, then there are several extra English cities already with adequate stadia who could step up today, if necessary.

And specifically regarding Windsor, if there was any possibility of that being expanded to achieve even 25k capacity, don't you think the IFA would be pushing that, instead of throwing their lot in with Casement?

I can tell you now that it physically could not be done without demolishing and rebuilding at a minimum the Kop and South stands. And to replace the former would mean demolishing the Council's leisure centre next door and taking up/purchasing adjacent public land, which BCC would never countenance. While the latter would mean cmpulsorily purchasing the entire south side of Olympia Drive, which must have at least 50 houses on it.
And even if, by some (Putinesque) miracle those could be achieved, there is no way you could justify the £50m+ which that process would require.
And after all that, consider this from this morning:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-60865557



It’s not happening without State support. And what the FAI can offer as is is the Aviva. So anything beyond the given use of the Aviva is a plus for the FAI – even if the primary beneficiary of extended State support is a GAA structure. But from the State’s perspective, wanting beneficial spread beyond Dublin, an acknowledged need to do, is a push facilitator for an additional and non-Dublin venue.

I would be genuinely astonished if your government ever undertook to provide an adequate venue outside of Dublin.

I would urge you again to consider the hoops Cardiff had to jump through, with associated costs, to stage the 2018 Champions League Final:
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/full-inside-story-how-champions-12928557

And that was for one game, on one day, with two sets of supporters flying in, in a modern 73k stadium which was already pretty much UEFA compliant, and in a city which (no offence) is rather more "big-time" than either Cork or Galway, whilst also having much greater experience of staging international events in several different sports.



I don’t think Croke Park is a runner for reasons stated earlier.

If the only way Dublin can be a host city is if Croke is added to the AVIVA, then that is what will likely happen. This is because ROI has to stage games, and those are the only two stadia in the country which are remotely feasible.
But if the Dublin government (expense) and FAI (rivalry) can get away without including Croke, then they will.



But if the FA has conceded Belfast as a host venue, and this subsequently does not materialise (which is the most likely scenario), does this not open the door for the replacement use of an “non English” venue?

In theory, yes,, but it will not be in ROI or Wales, since neither of those has an alternative soccer stadium in a city other than Dublin or Cardiff.
It could conceivably be given to Scotland, since notwithstanding that Murrayfield is a rugby stadium, it could easily meet UEFA standards, while also being in a large, capital city with all the infrastructure, experience and resources that that entails.

But since this is effectively an "English" bid, I still think that that is where NI's slot will go. After all, if England were required to provide, say, 12 venues instead of 11, then they coiuld do that right now, and still have another half a dozen in reserve.
And never forget, it is Westminster who will be stumping up the vast bulk of the funding for this bid, so they/the FA will have the final say, with the other four associations basically taking whatever they're given.



This is another issue with Casement. Even if Casement is built in time for 2028, it will be a GAA stadium to GAA specifications. To meet EC requirements, an additional small fortune would need to be spent to bring a newly built stadium up to standard, no?
There are a million issues with Casement, which is why I'm very doubtful it will ever stage Euro2028 games.

But if NI is to be a host venue, that is the only hope. And IF (emphasise) it can be rebuilt in time, it at least has the benefit of being supported by all the key players:
The IFA - for abvious reasons;
The GAA - for financial reasons;
Stormont - for tourism/visitor/image reasons;
Westminster - to make it a proper "UK-wide" tournament;
UEFA - To spread the tournament to another member association beyond the usual big boys (Germany/Spain/Italy/France etc).



But the structure is there, and from a cost and time perspective, it seems a lot more viable bringing PuC up to scratch than a Casement Park that does not exist.
The sturcuture is NOT there (PuC), or anything like it.

For one thing, there is no way UEFA would countenance uncovered stands with temporary, bolted-on seating. And I strongly doubt that the existing foundations for the other 3 stands are strong enough to support the weight of a roof. meaning you'd have to knock them down and start again.

And all that's before you factor in the media/corporate/sponsors/VIP add-ons which UEFA routinely require.

Above all, if there were simply no other option, they might ease their requrements, but when England alone could stage the tournament tomorrow, with stadia to spare, that simply isnt the case.

[sidewayspasser]

Much of your argument against PuC seems to be based on the lack of roof cover. However, I don't think UEFA regulations require fully covered stands (if you can prove otherwise, I'm happy to be pointed out the bit of regulation that asks for it). Also, you seem to assume that only one stand has a roof, while two have. It's only the terraces at either end that don't.

[EalingGreen]

Much of your argument against PuC seems to be based on the lack of roof cover. However, I don't think UEFA regulations require fully covered stands (if you can prove otherwise, I'm happy to be pointed out the bit of regulation that asks for it). Also, you seem to assume that only one stand has a roof, while two have. It's only the terraces at either end that don't.
Here is an extract from UEFA's spec for Euro2024:

"The Stadium must be covered by a roof in order to protect all spectators from weather conditions such as rain, wind, sun, etc. Roof access is required for maintenance, rigging and signage purposes.
The roof structure should ideally not have a negative impact on the growth of healthy high-quality grass for the pitch. From a sustainability perspective, solar panels and rain water harvesting are encouraged."
See pdf page 66: https://www.uefa.com/multimediafiles/download/officialdocument/uefaorg/regulations/02/46/30/61/2463061_download.pdf

And as regards seating: "no provisional or temporary seating installations will be permitted" (Pdf page 66)

The whole document is 190 pages, with their stadium provisions starting at page 52. This goes into incredible detail, taking eg a random example from my brief scan:

Field of play orientation
Great care must be taken regarding the orientation of the field of play in relation to the sun and prevailing weather conditions. A north-south orientation of the field of play is considered ideal.
Provision must be made to accommodate the main television camera positions in the west stand (main stand) to avoid problems with the glare of the sun.
The orientation of the Stadium and field of play must not deviate by more than 15 ̊ from the north -south axis. (Pdf Page 60).

While I saw somewhere that control of the stadium has to be given over to UEFA for the entire period it's in use. Try getting that one past the GAA, at least without a whole shed full of money from someone!

[sidewayspasser]

Ok, I stand corrected.

[backstothewall]

Here is an extract from UEFA's spec for Euro2024:

"The Stadium must be covered by a roof in order to protect all spectators from weather conditions such as rain, wind, sun, etc. Roof access is required for maintenance, rigging and signage purposes.
The roof structure should ideally not have a negative impact on the growth of healthy high-quality grass for the pitch. From a sustainability perspective, solar panels and rain water harvesting are encouraged."
See pdf page 66: https://www.uefa.com/multimediafiles/download/officialdocument/uefaorg/regulations/02/46/30/61/2463061_download.pdf

And as regards seating: "no provisional or temporary seating installations will be permitted" (Pdf page 66)

The whole document is 190 pages, with their stadium provisions starting at page 52. This goes into incredible detail, taking eg a random example from my brief scan:

Field of play orientation
Great care must be taken regarding the orientation of the field of play in relation to the sun and prevailing weather conditions. A north-south orientation of the field of play is considered ideal.
Provision must be made to accommodate the main television camera positions in the west stand (main stand) to avoid problems with the glare of the sun.
The orientation of the Stadium and field of play must not deviate by more than 15 ̊ from the north -south axis. (Pdf Page 60).

While I saw somewhere that control of the stadium has to be given over to UEFA for the entire period it's in use. Try getting that one past the GAA, at least without a whole shed full of money from someone!

That's Croke Park out of the running. Without Hill 16 the capacity of Croke Park drops under 70,000, and it would look awful having a big empty terrace behind a goal.

[jbyrne]

always thought croke park would be twice the stadium it is if a roof was put on hill 16 end. would enclose it nicely

[seanfhear]

always thought croke park would be twice the stadium it is if a roof was put on hill 16 end. would enclose it nicely
A Total Retractable Roof ( for all of Croke Park ) would also be handy in Ireland.

[EalingGreen]

That's Croke Park out of the running. Without Hill 16 the capacity of Croke Park drops under 70,000, and it would look awful having a big empty terrace behind a goal.
The minimum capacity requirement is only 30k, so even with closing off Hill 16, Croke comfortably exceeds that.

As for the look of it, have you ever seen Braga's stadium, built for when Portugal hosted the Euro's?

It was built in a huge quarry (literally) and with only two stands, both along the touchline.

Meaning one end is a massive rock wall, while the other is a scrub-covered bank, over which you can just see the town in the distance:

https://www.stadiumguide.com/wp-content/gallery/braga/braga2.jpg

https://www.stadiumguide.com/wp-content/gallery/braga/braga4.jpg

[EalingGreen]

A Total Retractable Roof ( for all of Croke Park ) would also be handy in Ireland.
Retractable rooves were popular a few years back (eg Cardiff Millennium), but have since gone out of fashion - I suspect because the cost and engineering complexity isn't cost effective just to save the occasional game which cannot go ahead at all due to weather.

The exception is tennis, but they simply cannot play in the rain, while their stadia are much smaller anyhow.

[seanfhear]

Retractable rooves were popular a few years back (eg Cardiff Millennium), but have since gone out of fashion - I suspect because the cost and engineering complexity isn't cost effective just to save the occasional game which cannot go ahead at all due to weather.

The exception is tennis, but they simply cannot play in the rain, while their stadia are much smaller anyhow.
To be honest I was just trying to be helpful to the Irish Government by coming up with a way to help them waste Copious Amounts of Public Money. They basically never turn down an opportunity to waste Public Money so you can expect a huge roof over Croke Park and maybe even the Entire Country.

[ifk101]

But if NI is to be a host venue, that is the only hope.

If Casement gets built, it will be to the current standard of PuC but with a lower capacity and with a lower scale capable of accommodating corporate/ media obligations etc etc. Is it really viable to get Casement Park built in time, and then subsequently tear down one end of this completed stadium to rebuild it to UEFA stipulations (you are aware one end of the proposed Casement is terracing?) and as you say yourself


converting terracing is not a simple matter of bolting on a few seats.

It is far more viable for PuC to host the EC as an existing structure is in place. Casement first needs to be built, then one end needs to be knocked down and rebuilt again, (hopefully resulting in a 30,000 seat capacity?) and this needs to be done in six years and in an area where local residents say no.

[backstothewall]

Is it really viable to get Casement Park built

Park of making this happen is everyone accepting that the answer to this question is no. It's the wrong stadium in the wrong place for all the wrong reasons. It's a project that's going nowhere.

[Eirambler]

Lads, neither Casement or PuC is going to be used. Lansdowne will be, Croker might be. Unless the north can pull something amazing out of the fire that isn't Casement, that will be the extent of Irish involvement in terms of stadiums.

[EalingGreen]

If Casement gets built, it will be to the current standard of PuC but with a lower capacity and with a lower scale capable of accommodating corporate/ media obligations etc etc. Is it really viable to get Casement Park built in time, and then subsequently tear down one end of this completed stadium to rebuild it to UEFA stipulations

If Casement is to get built, it will only be if Stormont comes up with the funding for the overspend. And I strongly supect that will only happen if hosting Euro2028 can be used as justification, which would bring with it the bonus of support from the IFA. In those circumstances, it should be (just) capable of being built to meet UEFA standards.
(On this last point, he most recent GAA proposal shows that it will be completely covered, for example, unlike PuC.)


(you are aware one end of the proposed Casement is terracing?)

Even if the terracing is closed off, the remaining seated capacity should still be close to 30k. In which case, if all else complied (and NI qualified of course!), then I could see UEFA granting a one-off derogation. Remember, a couple of the stadia in Portugal were only 27k-28k.




It is far more viable for PuC to host the EC as an existing structure is in place.
I have already explained why I think PuC is unsuitable (UEFA specifications), unnecessary (numerous GB alternatives) and undesirable (no footballing legacy).



Casement first needs to be built, then one end needs to be knocked down and rebuilt again, (hopefully resulting in a 30,000 seat capacity?) and this needs to be done in six years and in an area where local residents say no.
I agree completely that there are so many hurdles to be overcome for Casement that even if it does get built, it must be long odds-against it ever being capable of hosting Euro2028 games.

However, my point was that if the Finals are to come to NI, then Casement could conceivably be made suitable - just - and so represents the sole hope for an Irish venue (other than Dublin), no matter how slim that hope may be.

That's all, really.

[EalingGreen]

It's the wrong stadium in the wrong place for all the wrong reasons. It's a project that's going nowhere.
I agree entirely. And those objections (wrong place especially) may mean it doesn't get built, or if it ever does, then on a much more modest scale.

But the fact is, there's at least £62m of public momey waiting to be spent by the GAA, who are determined that it's Casement or nothing.

Which it probably is, since it is totally unfeasible for them to bear the added cost of acquiring an alternative site in Belfast, while locating it anywhere else in NI is completely out of the question.

Which is all a bit like the old gag about the tourist to Ireland stopping to ask directions somewhere and being told: "If I were you, I wouldn't start from here".

Unfortunately, we have no other choice but to try to start from here (Casement).

[Eirambler]

A few more details coming through on this. Seems like the confirmation that UK/IE have "won" with their bid will be based on a 32 team tournament with 16 stadiums being used - 10 in England and 6 others.

That suggests that the non English stadiums will be Hampden Park, Murrayfield, the Millennium Stadium in Wales (or whatever they call it now), Lansdowne Road, Croke Park and a space for one in NI if they can come up with anything.

Interestingly Anfield cannot be part of the tournament as the pitch is too small to meet UEFA requirements, I think most people would have thought that was a certainty to be used.

[tetsujin1979]

What about any potential new stadium in Liverpool? You'd assume if that does go ahead, it'll be with hosting games in the tournament in mind

[seanfhear]

A few more details coming through on this. Seems like the confirmation that UK/IE have "won" with their bid will be based on a 32 team tournament with 16 stadiums being used - 10 in England and 6 others.

That suggests that the non English stadiums will be Hampden Park, Murrayfield, the Millennium Stadium in Wales (or whatever they call it now), Lansdowne Road, Croke Park and a space for one in NI if they can come up with anything.

Interestingly Anfield cannot be part of the tournament as the pitch is too small to meet UEFA requirements, I think most people would have thought that was a certainty to be used.
So,thats how Klopp get’s his pressing game to work in the home matches anyway.

As an aside ~ ~ I have always thought that any new pitches / stadiums developed should be required to be the maximum size ( the pitches ) to make for better football.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Meanwhile: https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/environment/residents-say-new-casement-park-will-be-a-hulking-mass-3670356

[Eirambler]

What about any potential new stadium in Liverpool? You'd assume if that does go ahead, it'll be with hosting games in the tournament in mind

The new Everton stadium seems to be in, subject to it getting funded and built.

[EalingGreen]

Interestingly Anfield cannot be part of the tournament as the pitch is too small to meet UEFA requirements, I think most people would have thought that was a certainty to be used.
In general, pitches can be any dimension you like, so loog as they are between 100 and 130 yards long and between 50 and 100 yards wide (and aren't square).

FIFA requires that intenrational pitches must be between 100 and 120 yards long, and 70 to 80 yards wide.

Meanwhile, an ideal pitch dimension of 115 yards by 75 yardfs is now the "gold standard" and virtually all new stadia at professional level conform to that exact size. (I'm not sure exactly who has determined this, FIFA, UEFA or the various professional leagues btw).

However, a derogation is permitted for older grounds where such a dimension cannot be achieved without moving grandstands etc, Anfield being an example of this.

And those ideal dimensions are by now pretty much compulsory for major UEFA and FIFA tournaments like EURO2028.

Most PL pitches are now standardised, but back in the day I believe that Arsene Wenger had a couple of pitches at Arsenal's training ground which could be adjusted depending on the size of the pitch they were due to play on for away games - I daresay all clubs have something like this now.

While at Spurs, the old WHL pitch was smaller than usual at 110 yards by 73 yards. Pochettino's tight pressing game was ideally suited to a smaller pitch, such that in their last season there, Spurs won 17 and drew the other two of their 19 PL games = 53 points.

But playing at Wembley the following season while the new stadium was built, their home record was W13, D4 L2 = 43 points. Yet their away record marginally improved, from 33 points to 34.

Anyhow, getting back to Euro2028, you can be sure that Everton's new stadium will fit the bill, meaning that it will almost certainly be a host stadium. Which will be nice for the EFL... :cool:

[elatedscum]

given that everton have lost £372m across three seasons, £121m last season being the most recent figure, lost their most significant benefactor in Usmanov due to the invasion of ukraine, and are bookies favourites to go down, you'd have to imagine a stadium is pretty unlikely.

[EalingGreen]

given that everton have lost £372m across three seasons, £121m last season being the most recent figure, lost their most significant benefactor in Usmanov due to the invasion of ukraine, and are bookies favourites to go down, you'd have to imagine a stadium is pretty unlikely.
You may be right, but if I had to guess, I'd say it will still go ahead, as follows.

While Usmanov, said to be worth nearly $20 bn., is doubtless the key figure behind Everton, he is channeling his football business through his long time business partner Farhad Moshiri, who recently upped his stake in the club to 94%.

Moshiri, who is said to worth a "mere" £2 bn., has not been sanctioned and unless something unknown turns up, it may be that the UK government will be reluctant to do so until the stadium is completed. (It's a big deal for the whole city, not just EFC and Euro2028).

And tbf, they've already made decent progress on the stadium:

https://i2-prod.liverpoolecho.co.uk/incoming/article23679906.ece/ALTERNATES/s810/0_BMD120422.jpg

While their CEO has been reassuring the fans recently that everything is still on track:
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/everton-new-stadium-costs-breaking-23679739

And even if they got relegated and/or Moshiri had to sell up, I'd guess there'd be no shortage of buyers for a club with EFC's history and potential, for sale at a knock-down price.

[tetsujin1979]

Most PL pitches are now standardised, but back in the day I believe that Arsene Wenger had a couple of pitches at Arsenal's training ground which could be adjusted depending on the size of the pitch they were due to play on for away games - I daresay all clubs have something like this now.

Man City's training ground goes further than that, they have pitches for each premier league away ground with the same grass as each pitch, and the same North-South alignment

[seanfhear]

Man City's training ground goes further than that, they have pitches for each premier league away ground with the same grass as each pitch, and the same North-South alignment
Do they get in all of their opponents fans as well ? ?

[Kingdom]

Man City's training ground goes further than that, they have pitches for each premier league away ground with the same grass as each pitch, and the same North-South alignment

Absolute w@nkers.

[EalingGreen]

Man City's training ground goes further than that, they have pitches for each premier league away ground with the same grass as each pitch, and the same North-South alignment
Actually now you mention it, I think that might originally have been a Wenger idea too, presumably followed by M.City when they opened their new Academy/Training ground?

Im not sure how they would have accounted for Tommy Docherty, mind, when he managed Chelsea.

His team were due to play Barcelona in a European game at the Bridge, but star striker Peter Osgood was one of a few players who were injured and needed a bit more time to recover.

So he called in the local Fire Brigade and got them to flood the pitch, so that the game would have to be delayed by another day or two.

You can read how that one turned out here:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/poor-grounds-for-complaint-k8l23225n8c

[seanfhear]

Actually now you mention it, I think that might originally have been a Wenger idea too, presumably followed by M.City when they opened their new Academy/Training ground?

Im not sure how they would have accounted for Tommy Docherty, mind, when he managed Chelsea.

His team were due to play Barcelona in a European game at the Bridge, but star striker Peter Osgood was one of a few players who were injured and needed a bit more time to recover.

So he called in the local Fire Brigade and got them to flood the pitch, so that the game would have to be delayed by another day or two.

You can read how that one turned out here:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/poor-grounds-for-complaint-k8l23225n8c
Tommy Docherty pulled a few stunts in his time. His Man Utd team in the 70’s was mighty entertaining to watch. Two very good wingers and very attacking football. Great watching for a neutral.

[backstothewall]

I agree entirely. And those objections (wrong place especially) may mean it doesn't get built, or if it ever does, then on a much more modest scale.

But the fact is, there's at least £62m of public momey waiting to be spent by the GAA, who are determined that it's Casement or nothing.

Which it probably is, since it is totally unfeasible for them to bear the added cost of acquiring an alternative site in Belfast, while locating it anywhere else in NI is completely out of the question.

Which is all a bit like the old gag about the tourist to Ireland stopping to ask directions somewhere and being told: "If I were you, I wouldn't start from here".

Unfortunately, we have no other choice but to try to start from here (Casement).

The good news is that £62m isn't close to being enough cash to build what the GAA want. They need more money and will have to come back to the table.

I honestly think the insistence on building at Casement is being able to call it Casement Park.

If that dept had a unionist minister in 2 weeks time, all it might to take to break the logjam could be something as simple as saying there would be no objection to a stadium on a new site called "New Casement Park" or something like that.

Good sites have come and gone while it has dragged on forever, but Giants Park just off the M2 looks the best available area at the moment.

[EalingGreen]

The good news is that £62m isn't close to being enough cash to build what the GAA want. They need more money and will have to come back to the table.

I was going to post about the flaws in the GAA's "plan" for Casement, but they are so many and various that even a summary would take several pages! Suffice to say, this is a screw-up which will require either that Stormont come up with an unbudgeted £50m (more?) on top of the £62m already allocated, at a time of economic constraints; or, the GAA will have to rein in its plans drastically,
And if the history of this whole, sorry saga is any guide, the former can't, while the latter won't, meaning that it will drag on for another decade (minimum)!



I honestly think the insistence on building at Casement is being able to call it Casement Park.

I don't think the name itself is any barrier, whether in Andytown or elsewhere, they could call the new stadium whatever the hell they like.

No, this is one massive vanity project, conceived as a replacement for a 48k capacity Maze stadium(!), when the GAA was sufficiently flush with funds to add their own £15m to the £62m "free money" from Stormont.

They assumed it would be a shoo-in, completely misjudging the legal, regulatory and community obstacles they would have to overcome - even Antrim GAA is/was unhappy!

Which is bad enough, but considering how much has changed in the decade since, their unwillingness to adjust their plans to something more reasonable (25k capacity?) is actually pretty scandalous (imo).



If that dept had a unionist minister in 2 weeks time, all it might to take to break the logjam could be something as simple as saying there would be no objection to a stadium on a new site called "New Casement Park" or something like that.

Good sites have come and gone while it has dragged on forever, but Giants Park just off the M2 looks the best available area at the moment.
Even if there is an Executive after the election (uncertain) and even if there is a Unionist minister (uncertain) and even if the extra money is available (uncertain), there is NO WAY that the GAA or anyone else will want to waste another decade or more effectively starting all over again on a new site, even if they were gifted one for free.

And as for Giant's Park, if the GAA struggled to overcome local opposition and get PP for a replacement for an already existing stadium in the heart of West Belfast, then they have less than zero chance of building one just over the road from Mount Vernon!

You'd have a better hope of building an Orange Hall in the middle of the Vatican City!

[backstothewall]

I was going to post about the flaws in the GAA's "plan" for Casement, but they are so many and various that even a summary would take several pages! Suffice to say, this is a screw-up which will require either that Stormont come up with an unbudgeted £50m (more?) on top of the £62m already allocated, at a time of economic constraints; or, the GAA will have to rein in its plans drastically,
And if the history of this whole, sorry saga is any guide, the former can't, while the latter won't, meaning that it will drag on for another decade (minimum)!


I don't think the name itself is any barrier, whether in Andytown or elsewhere, they could call the new stadium whatever the hell they like.

No, this is one massive vanity project, conceived as a replacement for a 48k capacity Maze stadium(!), when the GAA was sufficiently flush with funds to add their own £15m to the £62m "free money" from Stormont.

They assumed it would be a shoo-in, completely misjudging the legal, regulatory and community obstacles they would have to overcome - even Antrim GAA is/was unhappy!

Which is bad enough, but considering how much has changed in the decade since, their unwillingness to adjust their plans to something more reasonable (25k capacity?) is actually pretty scandalous (imo).


Even if there is an Executive after the election (uncertain) and even if there is a Unionist minister (uncertain) and even if the extra money is available (uncertain), there is NO WAY that the GAA or anyone else will want to waste another decade or more effectively starting all over again on a new site, even if they were gifted one for free.

And as for Giant's Park, if the GAA struggled to overcome local opposition and get PP for a replacement for an already existing stadium in the heart of West Belfast, then they have less than zero chance of building one just over the road from Mount Vernon!

You'd have a better hope of building an Orange Hall in the middle of the Vatican City!

No complaint about building from someone who would have to cross a couple of football pitches, a 10 lane motorway and a railway line to get to would ever be taken seriously. Even in this screwed up place.

The agreed initial proposals for the site already include a "leisure and sports innovation hub".

[EalingGreen]

No complaint about building from someone who would have to cross a couple of football pitches, a 10 lane motorway and a railway line to get to would ever be taken seriously. Even in this screwed up place.

The agreed initial proposals for the site already include a "leisure and sports innovation hub".
The GAA doesn't have the money to build what they want, or anything like it.

Nor have they permission to build it, at least yet.

Indeed they haven't even overcome local opposition to their plans, or apathy more widely, even amongst GAA fans.

In fact the only thing they do have after more than a decade of dither and delay is a freehold site - and a site which is their old spiritual home in their spiritual Belfast heartland.

Meaning that in addition to all that, there is no way they will ever splash out to BCC for an expensive lease on a site on the other side of the city.

Which explains why they've never expressed even the slightest interest in Giants Park in all the years since the Council started pitching the site to prospective new tenants.

[geysir]

The GAA doesn't have the money to build what they want, or anything like it.

Nor have they permission to build it, at least yet.

Indeed they haven't even overcome local opposition to their plans, or apathy more widely, even amongst GAA fans.

In fact the only thing they do have after more than a decade of dither and delay is a freehold site - and a site which is their old spiritual home in their spiritual Belfast heartland.

Meaning that in addition to all that, there is no way they will ever splash out to BCC for an expensive lease on a site on the other side of the city.

Which explains why they've never expressed even the slightest interest in Giants Park in all the years since the Council started pitching the site to prospective new tenants.
There is only one spiritual home of Ulster GAA and that's St Tiernach's Park Clones, maybe something to do with the pleasant tranquilising effect of consuming copious pints surrounded by green grassy Drumlins.
Casement Pk project is mainly a GAA mess so far, why are you so worked about it? It has an extremely limited tangential connection to this thread.

[Fixer82]

They should just call it Sir Roger Park and then everyone would be happy. Sorted!

*mic drop

[EalingGreen]

There is only one spiritual home of Ulster GAA and that's St Tiernach's Park Clones, maybe something to do with the pleasant tranquilising effect of consuming copious pints surrounded by green grassy Drumlins.

I meant the spiritual home of GAA in Belfast/Antrim - another reason not to decamp to somewhere else in the city.



Casement Pk project is mainly a GAA mess so far, why are you so worked about it? It has an extremely limited tangential connection to this thread.
On the contrary, if NI is to have any chance of hosting games in 2028, then a rebuilt Casement is the only possibllity (if an increasingly slim one).

Which could impact on ROI in turn, since games in Belfast would reduce the chances of Dublin holding games in Croke as well as the AVIVA.

[seanfhear]

I meant the spiritual home of GAA in Belfast/Antrim - another reason not to decamp to somewhere else in the city.


On the contrary, if NI is to have any chance of hosting games in 2028, then a rebuilt Casement is the only possibllity (if an increasingly slim one).

Which could impact on ROI in turn, since games in Belfast would reduce the chances of Dublin holding games in Croke as well as the AVIVA.
Will there be a United Ireland after Sinn Féin win the Election this week ? (WINK)

[geysir]

I meant the spiritual home of GAA in Belfast/Antrim - another reason not to decamp to somewhere else in the city.


On the contrary, if NI is to have any chance of hosting games in 2028, then a rebuilt Casement is the only possibllity (if an increasingly slim one).

Which could impact on ROI in turn, since games in Belfast would reduce the chances of Dublin holding games in Croke as well as the AVIVA.

A contrary position to what I expressed about the Casement pk fiasco would surely have to be more positive than 'increasingly slim'? :)
If the chances of it being built were better than increasingly slim, then perhaps it would have some relevance.

[EalingGreen]

A contrary position to what I expressed about the Casement pk fiasco would surely have to be more positive than 'increasingly slim'? :)

I was expressing a contrary opinion to your assertion that Casement is "tangential" to this thread. This thread relating to Euro2028 and Casement being a possible venue, supported inter alia by the IFA, means it is entirely relevant.



If the chances of it being built were better than increasingly slim, then perhaps it would have some relevance.
When you describe Casement as being a "fiasco", which is by no means certain to be built (by 2028, at any rate!), then you'll get no argument from me. But while related, that is a separate point.

I personally think something will be built at Casement - the money is there and has to be spent - while the GAA (and various politicians) have invested too much of their reputation for it not to go ahead

Meaning the real questions are when, and in what form, both of which could well scupper any chance of making 2028 in time.

[NeverFeltBetter]

The appeal against Casement's redevelopment has been rejected: https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2022/0531/1302190-casement-redevelopment-closer-after-appeal-dismissed/

[TonyD]

Man City's training ground goes further than that, they have pitches for each premier league away ground with the same grass as each pitch, and the same North-South alignment

Something about that reminds me of the famous Dustin Hoffman/Laurence Olivier story from when the were making Marathon Man. Hoffman’s character was being tortured so to prepare he stayed up all night, and went running to get out of breath etc. Olivier said to him “Why don’t you try acting ? Its much easier.”

[JR89]

If two spots are given and we benefit the Scots will be ****ed given they can provide three stadiums bigger than the Aviva and Croke Park isn't really a great stadium for football games.

1579730205479796736

[CSAD]

If two spots are given and we benefit the Scots will be ****ed given they can provide three stadiums bigger than the Aviva and Croke Park isn't really a great stadium for football games.

1579730205479796736

Well to be honest Scotland can eat a d!ck as far as I?m concerned, if they got it over us they wouldn?t show us sympathy so I?m hardly going to neither should others!

True they can offer 3 bigger stadiums but how many of them have hosted big UEFA final games? Maybe Scotland?s NT stadium but that?s it really.

[ifk101]

Will the UK be capable of co-hosting a tournament with us? Seems their precious union is imploding ...

[NeverFeltBetter]

Bid delivered to UEFA, includes Croke Park and the Aviva for Ireland and Casement Park for the North: https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2022/1116/1336457-euro-2028-bid-submitted-as-three-irish-stadia-listed/

The initial list of 14 stadiums will be reduced to ten eventually.

[Stuttgart88]

Cost estimated at €135mm with benefits estimated at €361mm and 2,600 new jobs. https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2022/1114/1336158-euro-bid/

History shows that financial benefits are almost always overestimated but there are very often "soft" benefits which are hard to measure. If I was close to government I'd be asking that the tax take on these benefits be invested directly into Irish football and not necessarily at grass roots. Let's say the tax take is €100mm: that'd go a long way towards stadium & facilities upgrades across all LOI grounds, which itself will create jobs and generate tax. Let's use this opportunity to create an actual football industry in the country.

[JR89]

Would assume Croke Park was included in case Casement is a no go. Use two in Dublin if Belfast isn't used.

[EalingGreen]

Will the UK be capable of co-hosting a tournament with us? Seems their precious union is imploding ...
If Qatar can host a 32 x team World Cup, then London alone could host a 24 x team Euro's - 7 x PL clubs + Wembley + Twickenham, in a city of 10 million people which receives over 20 million tourists annually, via its 5 x international airports and the world's most extensive urban, suburban and national transport system outside of Tokyo.

Fact is, while the English FA would love to host it on its own, and could easily do so, they also know that if the bid is to have the best chance of succeeding, the other four Associations' votes/influence will greatly help their case.

And of the four, the FAI/ROI is especially important, since it gives more of a truly "international" feel to the bid, as well as being at least as successful in qualifying for finals as NI, Scotland and Wales over the last quarter century..

Which is why Dublin is getting two stadia, while better-known footballing cities like Manchester or Liverpool may have to make do with one each.

Oh wait, having just typed all that, I realise you were making a Political point, not a Footballing ome.

Sorry.

[EalingGreen]

Would assume Croke Park was included in case Casement is a no go. Use two in Dublin if Belfast isn't used.
Doubt itt - see my post above.

I'd be pretty certain that should Casement not be built in time - and I'd be very surprised indeed if it were- then England will get that slot.

I mean, with 4 slots allocated to Dublin/Glasgow/Cardiff as it is, then the remaining 6 slots for England would be very scant "reward", never mind if reduced to 5 with the inclusion of Casement.

I'd say if there's a doubt over Croke, it would be because the GAA weren't prepared to make the necessary accomodations to UEFA/soccer; and/or they couldn't attract the necessary support, including financial, from the Dublin government.

And re those last two, if the money is right, then the GAA will welcome in the 'Garrison Game', while I'd also be pretty confident that Dublin would provide the necessary support (unless someone better qualified than me tells me otherwise).

[ifk101]

Cost estimated at €135mm with benefits estimated at €361mm and 2,600 new jobs. https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2022/1114/1336158-euro-bid/
History shows that financial benefits are almost always overestimated but there are very often "soft" benefits which are hard to measure.

A multi-million benefit figure ending in a 1 feels an over-sell – can a projected benefit calculator be so accurate given the undoubted uncertainty in forecasting? And from reading the article, the €135m cost is primarily earmarked for the upgrading of Croke Park which has no long-term benefit for the country’s football infrastructure.

And whatever about giving the GAA €135m for a stadium upgrade and the merits of hosting this in the first place, would it not be wiser, from a national benefit perspective and geographical spread, to spend that money on upgrading a stadium outside Dublin?

Anyways .....


Would assume Croke Park was included in case Casement is a no go. Use two in Dublin if Belfast isn't used.

I'd be pretty certain that should Casement not be built in time - and I'd be very surprised indeed if it were- then England will get that slot.
Looking at the list of 14 stadiums to be 10, Casement is a non-runner – it’s the only stadium of the 14 that is not built and it is being built to GAA specs and therefore needing an immediate upgrade if built to host the tournament, don’t see Manchester getting two stadiums (Old Trafford needs upgrading?) or London getting three stadiums, and it’s either Newcastle or Sunderland not both giving their proximity. (And is the Everton stadium fully financed/ has iffy financing?) That’s leaves Dublin with a high likelihood of two hosting venues imo, all the more so given this €135million figure being floated around for Croke Park's upgrading.