Anti-vaxxers

[osarusan]

I had no idea he is not planning to get vaccinated. I wouldn't go so far as to call him an anti-vaxxer (he's not spouting conspiracy theory nonsense), but it seems very strange for a guy that has caught Covid twice now, and doesn't seem to have any real reason for it, or none that he wants to go public with anyway.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/international/callum-robinson-committed-to-his-no-vaccination-stance-1.4692146


Robinson repeated the line about “personal choice” before adding “it is what it is”.

“That’s my choice at this moment in time.”

Some people might think that is unusual, given your second dose of Covid?

“Yeah of course, as I said, it’s obviously annoying that I’ve caught it twice but I haven’t been vaccinated. Further down the line I could change my mind and want to do it but at this moment in time I haven’t been vaccinated, no.”

Why not?

“I just haven’t, I just haven’t done it. I know, as you said, there are managers and people that will want you to do it which is right in their way, the way they think, but everyone has their choice and what they want to do. I wouldn’t force people to do it, it’s your choice and your body.”

When it was explained to Robinson that the vaccine would have given him an enormous statistical chance of avoiding infection the second time, and thus being available to play in Portugal, he repeated: “I know but as I said that was my choice, I haven’t been vaccinated. That’s where I’m at at the moment. Things might change where I want to get vaccinated, I want to do it, but at this moment in time I haven’t made that decision.”

[seanfhear]

I had no idea he is not planning to get vaccinated. I wouldn't go so far as to call him an anti-vaxxer (he's not spouting conspiracy theory nonsense), but it seems very strange for a guy that has caught Covid twice now, and doesn't seem to have any real reason for it, or none that he wants to go public with anyway.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/international/callum-robinson-committed-to-his-no-vaccination-stance-1.4692146

Fortunately people are allowed to choose freely what to do with their body. I have no desire to live in a Communist / Fascist State. I am vaccinated by the way but freely chose to do that myself. His body ~ His choice.

[pineapple stu]

I had no idea he is not planning to get vaccinated. I wouldn't go so far as to call him an anti-vaxxer (he's not spouting conspiracy theory nonsense), but it seems very strange for a guy that has caught Covid twice now, and doesn't seem to have any real reason for it, or none that he wants to go public with anyway.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/international/callum-robinson-committed-to-his-no-vaccination-stance-1.4692146
I don't know if not spouting conspiracy theory nonsense publicly makes him not an anti-vaxxer. There was a report recently (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-10047239/SPECIAL-REPORT-Footballs-vaccine-problem-laid-bare-two-thirds-flight-stars-not-jabbed.html) showing that only around 35% of Premier League players are vaccinated, and anti-vaxx theories abound in the dressing room it seems.

Jurgen Klopp has likened it to drink driving because anti-vaxx stances don't just impact on you, and he's entirely correct. It's an incredibly selfish mé-féin sort of attitude to take unless you have some sort of valid medical reason not to take a vaccine.

[seanfhear]

I don't know if not spouting conspiracy theory nonsense publicly makes him not an anti-vaxxer. There was a report recently (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-10047239/SPECIAL-REPORT-Footballs-vaccine-problem-laid-bare-two-thirds-flight-stars-not-jabbed.html) showing that only around 35% of Premier League players are vaccinated, and anti-vaxx theories abound in the dressing room it seems.

Jurgen Klopp has likened it to drink driving because anti-vaxx stances don't just impact on you, and he's entirely correct. It's an incredibly selfish mé-féin sort of attitude to take unless you have some sort of valid medical reason not to take a vaccine.

One would think that Premier League footballers can afford to get the Very Best Medical Advice.

[pineapple stu]

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink, it would appear.

The Mail gives the example of Newcastle keeper Karl Darlow, who was hospitalised with covid, lost two stone in weight and was out of shape for weeks afterwards (fortunately for him it was pre-season), but still Newcastle have less than half of their players vaccinated.

I think it's more likely that footballers are massive idiots.

[lofty9]

I'm sure these footballers are heavily insured due to injuires etc. I wonder if there will be a change of attitude if insurance companies raise their premiums to unvaccinated players?
Probably not though to multi millionaires.

[seanfhear]

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink, it would appear.

The Mail gives the example of Newcastle keeper Karl Darlow, who was hospitalised with covid, lost two stone in weight and was out of shape for weeks afterwards (fortunately for him it was pre-season), but still Newcastle have less than half of their players vaccinated.

I think it's more likely that footballers are massive idiots.
And yet People choose to fanatically follow these Players.

[pineapple stu]

Yes - another reason why it's incredibly selfish to think that refusing to get a vaccine affects you and nobody else.

[Diggs246]

Its outrageous, he could kill someone
he could also catch it for the 3rd time and give it to our other players who will then be unavailable for selection.
He has stated that its a personal choice, so its not like a medical expert has advised him not to take it.
the selfish pr**k has missed 8 out of the last 13 international matches ( I understand because of covid!)

[seanfhear]

Yes - another reason why it's incredibly selfish to think that refusing to get a vaccine affects you and nobody else.
A person's private medical situation should be the preserve of each individual. I have no desire to live in a totalitarian Communist / fascist state.

[seanfhear]

Its outrageous, he could kill someone
he could also catch it for the 3rd time and give it to our other players who will then be unavailable for selection.
He has stated that its a personal choice, so its not like a medical expert has advised him not to take it.
the selfish pr**k has missed 8 out of the last 13 international matches ( I understand because of covid!)
The Irish management are free to pick him for squads or not to pick him.

[John83]

A person's private medical situation should be the preserve of each individual. I have no desire to live in a totalitarian Communist / fascist state.
Tell that to Typhoid Mary.

[pineapple stu]

A person's private medical situation should be the preserve of each individual. I have no desire to live in a totalitarian Communist / fascist state.
That is incredibly selfish of you, when you consider that vaccine efficiency is dependent on a critical mass of people being vaccinated. It's not sufficient to say I'm vaccinated therefore I'm fine. Everyone becomes safer the more people are vaccinated.

But unfortunately you don't seem to have any sort of rational argument to back up your view (probably because there is none), so I suspect this conversation won't really be all that productive.

[tetsujin1979]

A person's private medical situation should be the preserve of each individual. I have no desire to live in a totalitarian Communist / fascist state.

That's already the case, medical information is protected under GDPR. Robinson provided his status, it wasn't released without his consent.

[seanfhear]

That is incredibly selfish of you, when you consider that vaccine efficiency is dependent on a critical mass of people being vaccinated. It's not sufficient to say I'm vaccinated therefore I'm fine. Everyone becomes safer the more people are vaccinated.

But unfortunately you don't seem to have any sort of rational argument to back up your view (probably because there is none), so I suspect this conversation won't really be all that productive.
Only in a Communist / Fascist state would you force People to be vaccinated. Fortunately we do not live in such a state. You win the arguments for vaccination but in a free Country ~ People have the right to choose what to do with their own bodies. That’s almost the definition of a Free Country.

[pineapple stu]

I'm not forcing anyone to be vaccinated.

I am saying it is profoundly stupid, ignorant, selfish, and dangerous for more people than just you to choose not to be vaccinated.

[tetsujin1979]

Only in a Communist / Fascist state would you force People to be vaccinated. Fortunately we do not live in such a state. You win the arguments for vaccination but in a free Country ~ People have the right to choose what to do with their own bodies. That’s almost the definition of a Free Country.
Thousands of children have the MMR vaccine administered every year, in countries all over the world, both capitalist and communist

Anyway, if you want to discuss Robinsons choice not to have the vaccine (which I don't agree with) that's ok, if you want to debate whether or not mandating the vaccine is a political issue, there's a current affairs forum for that

[seanfhear]

I'm not forcing anyone to be vaccinated.

I am saying it is profoundly stupid, ignorant, selfish, and dangerous for more people than just you to choose not to be vaccinated.
I said that I was vaccinated but i do not believe people in a free country can be forced / coerced in to being vaccinated.

[Diggs246]

I'm not forcing anyone to be vaccinated.

I am saying it is profoundly stupid, ignorant, selfish, and dangerous for more people than just you to choose not to be vaccinated.

Id like to add that he is also endangering the opposition players, the ref , linesmen, the f**k hotel staff
Im not saying he should be forced to get it , but he shouldn't be picked. How does he get into the country? he has no vaccine cert? how does he get into the hotel or into the restaurant?

[pineapple stu]

I said that I was vaccinated but i do not believe people in a free country can be forced / coerced in to being vaccinated.
And I am saying that it is profoundly stupid, ignorant, selfish, and dangerous for more people than just you (ie the person not taking the vaccine) to choose not to be vaccinated.

I have given reasons for my view (ie how vaccines work) whereas you haven't given any reason for yours.

Also - maybe suggest the anti-vaxx stuff is split off to Current Affairs at this stage?

[seanfhear]

And I am saying that it is profoundly stupid, ignorant, selfish, and dangerous for more people than just you (ie the person not taking the vaccine) to choose not to be vaccinated.

I have given reasons for my view (ie how vaccines work) whereas you haven't given any reason for yours.

Also - maybe suggest the anti-vaxx stuff is split off to Current Affairs at this stage?
The Irish management are certainly free ~ Not to pick him.

I would go so far as to say that ~ I am surprised that they did pick him. Wouldn’t it be just easier for everyone if they did not pick him ?

[osarusan]

Yeah, I'm surprised he was selected, if it was known he's not vaccinated. After the impact that postive results (or false positives) have had on recent Irish squads, Kenny must be pretty unhappy about it.

Him getting a FIFA exemption for what are, despite our own investment in it, comparatively inconsequential sporting reasons, must stick in the craw of those who have had to quarantine and missed births/deaths etc.

[ifk101]

The hashtag #WeAreOne to Callum Robinson's left, right and front during yesterday's presser .....

[Diggs246]

God forgive me to suggesting this, but if he had been good enough for England, does he misses 8 international matches for his stance?
or does his agent actually administer the vaccine himself

[osarusan]

I'm just spinning this out of the Callum Robinson thread in the International section.

Robinson is not vaccinated, and doesn't plan to get vaccinated, despite already having COVID twice, and this is not unusual across EPL footballers by the sounds of it. Apart from the actual/potential footballing impacts in his particular case, it also sparked a more general discussion (which is better held here) on bodily autonomy, the reach of the state, and so on.

My own view is that nobody should be forced to be vaccinated, but they should also understand that their failure to get vaccinated may come with consequences, should a company/school/airline/state body/whoever decide that unvaccinated people are in some way persona non grata.

[JR89]

Yeah, I'm surprised he was selected, if it was known he's not vaccinated. After the impact that postive results (or false positives) have had on recent Irish squads, Kenny must be pretty unhappy about it.

Him getting a FIFA exemption for what are, despite our own investment in it, comparatively inconsequential sporting reasons, must stick in the craw of those who have had to quarantine and missed births/deaths etc.

40% of the squad aren't vaccinated apparently, which isn't a shock as only 7 clubs in the EPL have 50% or more of their squad vaccinated.

[Diggs246]

40% of the squad aren't vaccinated apparently, which isn't a shock as only 7 clubs in the EPL have 50% or more of their squad vaccinated.

Wow! I knew they were thick but this is a new low

[Fixer82]

40% of the squad aren't vaccinated apparently, which isn't a shock as only 7 clubs in the EPL have 50% or more of their squad vaccinated.

The anti-vax culture is stronger in England/UK where most of our footballers play. Their government leadership on the subject has been muddy at best.
On the other hand, people would say Irish are more compliant. Who knows?

Personally, I got the vaccine but have no real issue with young, healthy, fit people not getting it.
As long as they are accept they have a high chance of contracting covid and are happy to fight through it.
I just hope those that get the virus don't suffer long term.
And I also hope there are no side-effects to the vaccine. Time will tell!!!

The vulnerable are all jabbed.
90% of over 16s in this country are jabbed.

Between vaccines and people who've had Covid and are now naturally immune, I think we've pretty much reached 'herd immunity'.
Covid is here to stay. Yearly jabs will be part of everyone's lives now.

Let's move on.

I hope Robinson scores a hat-trick on Sat!!!

[lofty9]

In this case, he should have some form of immunity for some time. Maybe he will get it after a certain period of time lapses.
Interestingly, Delta Airlines have deducted an insurance premium from their staff wages who haven't been vaccinated. For me, this will be the one sector capable of forcing people to get vaccinated when they insert it into policies, life cover etc.

[osarusan]

General anti-vaxxer thread opened in CA.

https://foot.ie/threads/270563-Anti-vaxxers

[geysir]

Callum is fully compliant with health regulations around Covid. Fully recovered from Covid in the last 180 days is of the same standing as a person who is 7 or 14 days past their second vaccination. That's how it is in the EU re their digital cert. If he resided in the EU he would be entitled to the EU digital covid cert. He said he may change his opinion on vaccination later.

[JR89]

Wow! I knew they were thick but this is a new low

Lucky for us Azerbaijan aren't on the red list like Montenegro. U21s had to name two squads and might end up going to Montenegro with a home based squad.

[Stuttgart88]

I've been vaccinated twice. I run in local competitions for a London running club. My form, especially in training, was terrible for 2-3 weeks after each shot. I'm absolutely certain it was the effect of the vaccine. I record my runs on a social app called Strava. I even described a few of them as "still feeling very post-vaccine".

I haven't read CR's reasons for not being vaxxed but if it's due to potential loss of performance I'd be somewhat sympathetic based on my own experience. And I'm a rabid pro-vax, pro-lockdown type.

Also, not sure if I mentioned it here but 10 days or so after my second shot I actually started showing COVID symptoms and tested positive (my second time - also March 20). A couple of days before symptoms showed I met the Portuguese referee of the ENG v CZE game at Wembley the following night. All the match officials were going for a jog in Hyde Park in their green UEFA track suits. The ref was good fun actually. I asked him to award the Czechs 3 penalties and he said he'd do his best, that kind of thing.

Anyway, once positive I had to fill out my test & trace app and name recent contacts. I didn't name him but was thinking if I had all the England players might have had to quarantine or even pull out!

[Mr_Parker]

Shocking witch hunt by some towards this player. I am double vaccinated and would encourage others to do the same. However I will fully support any individuals right to chose not to do so, regardless of their reasons. It is the most basic of human rights to chose what you do to your own body. Remove such rights and you will end up living in a totalitarian state, though we are all well on our way to one of those.

[pineapple stu]

Someone hasn't remotely read the reasons why your vaccination status impacts society as a whole and not just the individual.

[Diggs246]

Shocking witch hunt by some towards this player. I am double vaccinated and would encourage others to do the same. However I will fully support any individuals right to chose not to do so, regardless of their reasons. It is the most basic of human rights to chose what you do to your own body. Remove such rights and you will end up living in a totalitarian state, though we are all well on our way to one of those.

I think your forgetting it doesn't just effect him. 5,000 of our people are dead. He is a selfish penis.. no-one is forcing him to get it

[DCWA]

Callum’s body, Callum’s choice. I would be more concerned about him sticking something in the net for us than in his arm.

[Diggs246]

Callum’s body, Callum’s choice. I would be more concerned about him sticking something in the net for us than in his arm.

Thats right. No one is forcing him to do the right thing to protect, his friends, his colleagues and society as a whole. Myself and pineapple are just outlining that he is a selfish person!

[John83]

General anti-vaxxer thread opened in CA.

https://foot.ie/threads/270563-Anti-vaxxers
Can we draw a line under this, please? Anyone who wants to discuss it further can move to that thread.

[Diggs246]

Fair enough! Let's hope he does score that hat trick!!

[Mr A]

Remember the time your team was missing players because of an outbreak of smallpox?

No? Because vaccines work.

No sympathy for those who refuse vaccines without good reason and no time for their whining about exclusion. Do your duty as a decent human being or F**k right off.

[irishfan86]

I suspect when his next contract is up this will be sorted. With the exception of star players, I would expect unvaccinated players will go unsigned or will take pay cuts if they want to maintain unvaccinated status.

All a bit disappointing really and I feel let down by his stance.

[JR89]

I haven't read CR's reasons for not being vaxxed but if it's due to potential loss of performance I'd be somewhat sympathetic based on my own experience. And I'm a rabid pro-vax, pro-lockdown type.



Makes no sense when you consider he's missed how many games for us, and couldn't start for how many games for club and country afterwards.

[John83]

Remember the time your team was missing players because of an outbreak of smallpox?
I'm think a study of IQ and reading age versus vaccine hesitancy would be illuminating. That means it would help us understand something, for the antivaxxers.

Smallpox was about 30% lethal, so an outbreak in your squad would probably have been a serious blow to World Cup qualification chances.

[pineapple stu]

Interestingly, Delta Airlines have deducted an insurance premium from their staff wages who haven't been vaccinated. For me, this will be the one sector capable of forcing people to get vaccinated when they insert it into policies, life cover etc.
I think there's two sectors there - insurance and airlines. People aren't going to like having to cancel a holiday at 48 hours' notice because they couldn't get a negative PCR test because, well, they suddenly found out they had covid.

Social media logarithms and general trust in societal authority are given as two common reasons for the increase in anti-vaxx sentiment. I think there's also an increasing self-centredness in society too (humans have always been selfish, but now we can be selfish and always get what we want, which wasn't the case before), so people increasingly can't appreciate that vaccine status isn't all about them; it impacts on others too.

I don't think you have to be stupid to be anti-vaxx (though it definitely helps). But if anti-vaxx sentiment is the symptom, then it's worth addressing the cause as well. Social media is a curse - conspiracy theories existed before the internet of course, but for example there was a survey of flat-earthers a while back (https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/feb/17/study-blames-youtube-for-rise-in-number-of-flat-earthers) and every one of them picked up their views on YouTube, and I'd say it's responsible for the growing belief in things of that sort (the fake moon landings, 9/11 conspiracies, and increasingly I'm inclined to put trans-genderism in there as well). But social media isn't going to go away and seems very reluctant to police itself. I've no real idea how to address the problem really.

[DCWA]

Thats right. No one is forcing him to do the right thing to protect, his friends, his colleagues and society as a whole. Myself and pineapple are just outlining that he is a selfish person!

Yeah I don’t think I implied anything different re him being forced or not? In fact I didn’t reference either of your posts at all…?

[John83]

Can we draw a line under this, please? Anyone who wants to discuss it further can move to that thread.
I swear to god, the next post about vaccines gets carded.

[DCWA]

I swear to god, the next post about vaccines gets carded.

Apologies, will delete above if preferred.

Moving on, hopefully Cal can put in a big performance give our chances in these qualifiers a shot in the arm!

[seanfhear]

Has it ever been cleared up as to whether the Tyrone Players were vaccinated for the All-Ireland Final ? Did they pull a fast one there and delay vaccinations until after the final was played ?

[osarusan]

Tbf I think there is a distinction to be made between people going about how the vaccine is a Microsoft conspiracy (and lets throw Soros in there, he's always involved) and people who question the extent of state reach/over-reach.

And yeah, the annoying nutter and his nutter theories used to be confined to the corner of the village pub, but now they have a global audience for their shyte, and can form communities with like-minded nutters.