Republic of Ireland V Serbia - Tuesday, 7th September 2021 - 2022 World Cup Qualifier

[Olé Olé]

This team could be absolutely anything tonight. Kenny could reflect the team he played in the away version of this fixture which was a 3-5-2 - as distinct from the 3-4-3 that lined out Saturday.

Travers; Clark, O'Shea, Coleman; Doherty, Molumby, Cullen, Browne, Stevens; Connolly, Robinson

If you wanted to retain that shape and account for injuries and performances on Saturday, how would the below look:

Bazunu; Omobamidele, Egan, Duffy; Doherty, Cullen, Hendrick, Browne/McGrath, McClean/Manning; Idah, Robinson

There is always the possibility that we go to 4-2-3-1 but I'm not sure if Kenny has given Manning enough minutes to imply to me that he'd even trust him on the left of a back four. The alternatives would be Christie and McClean. Far less inspiring in my view.

Furthermore, if we did go 4-2-3-1, I don't know who plays in the front 4. I feel like we are short an option there. Robinson on one flank, Idah through the middle, Browne/McGrath at 10 (is it the game for Troy there?) and who goes on the other flank? Connolly?

[Olé Olé]

Hard to know who to play at wing back. Don’t really feel confident with any of McClean, Manning, Scales or Christie.

Agreed. My concern is that I'm less confident about McClean, Scales or Christie at full back. Manning would be my pick.

[Stuttgart88]

Just on the correlation between sponsors and performances, i think it's a really sad indictment of corporate Ireland that the value of sponsorship seems to depend so much on a successful senior team. Branding and brand activation can come in many flavours. Sponsor the whole game including the LOI and pitch the sponsorship as "Company X, proud to support football in Ireland across all levels, and support investment in facilities and coaching to allow Irish players at all levels and all ages achieve their long term potential".

[passinginterest]

Just on the correlation between sponsors and performances, i think it's a really sad indictment of corporate Ireland that the value of sponsorship seems to depend so much on a successful senior team. Branding and brand activation can come in many flavours. Sponsor the whole game including the LOI and pitch the sponsorship as "Company X, proud to support football in Ireland across all levels, and support investment in facilities and coaching to allow Irish players at all levels and all ages achieve their long term potential".

Would be interesting to see someone like Lidl come on board. They've worked absolute wonders with ladies Gaelic football. There needs to be some sort of ingenuity and passion from the sponsors towards the game in general. That seems to be really lacking from any recent sponsors, the only interest seems to be having the name on the replica jerseys of the senior team.

[paul_oshea]

Just on the correlation between sponsors and performances, i think it's a really sad indictment of corporate Ireland that the value of sponsorship seems to depend so much on a successful senior team. Branding and brand activation can come in many flavours. Sponsor the whole game including the LOI and pitch the sponsorship as "Company X, proud to support football in Ireland across all levels, and support investment in facilities and coaching to allow Irish players at all levels and all ages achieve their long term potential".

Like the aib GAA one? That's good marketing but we all know the reality is the senior all Ireland and that's where the money is being pumped - the gaa just ensure fair and equal distribution.

Btw I checked the Bulgaria thread it was locked I was a little lost trying to find the actual post but if it's related to suggesting certain posters were ignoring things and inferring you as one of those happy to rescind any post suggesting so. I genuinely can't remember now what was said and wasn't following it going back through the last 5 pages.

[paul_oshea]

Would be interesting to see someone like Lidl come on board. They've worked absolute wonders with ladies Gaelic football. There needs to be some sort of ingenuity and passion from the sponsors towards the game in general. That seems to be really lacking from any recent sponsors, the only interest seems to be having the name on the replica jerseys of the senior team.

Anything minority, underage and/or women in sport related they're all happy to jump on board. That's the forcing function, the FAI doesn't have one - until we make playoffs and qualifications.

The equal payment got so little traction leading up to an international window, it was shameful really and a good chance to jump on a marketing pr win and bring in potential broad sponsorship not just for women as a way of funding the equal pay but yet it didn't....

[jbyrne]

the only interest seems to be having the name on the replica jerseys of the senior team.

elverys are all over the FAI summer camps.
carlsberg, nissan, spar and many others also seem to be sponsoring without getting their name on the shirt.

[paul_oshea]

elverys are all over the FAI summer camps.
carlsberg, nissan, spar and many others also seem to be sponsoring without getting their name on the shirt.

Again they're all happy to be seen getting involved in participation related campaigns. The men's senior international team and/or leagues does not have a forcing function until we start qualifying for things be that ecl, el or euros/world cups

[Diggs246]

Agreed. My concern is that I'm less confident about McClean, Scales or Christie at full back. Manning would be my pick.

100% Manning is no world beater, but is by a county mile the best option at wing back

also Robinson and Mcgrath have to start.

[Diggs246]

Also Ive a funny feeling he will parachute Arter into the starting 11

People under pressure make decisions they wouldn't normally make ( usually wrong ones)

[Stuttgart88]

Btw I checked the Bulgaria thread it was locked I was a little lost trying to find the actual post but if it's related to suggesting certain posters were ignoring things and inferring you as one of those happy to rescind any post suggesting so. I genuinely can't remember now what was said and wasn't following it going back through the last 5 pages.Posts 422, 424 and 425 were pretty clear - you overtly accused me of ignoring facts and labeled me as one of the "hard done by". It was spelt out clearly what you were being asked to either support or apologise for. Apologising now is better than nothing and I thank you for that, but you had ample opportunity to engage at the time and chose not to and unfortunately that's left a lasting impression and imho was pretty telling as to how you treat this forum.

[pineapple stu]

This team could be absolutely anything tonight. Kenny could reflect the team he played in the away version of this fixture which was a 3-5-2 - as distinct from the 3-4-3 that lined out Saturday.

Travers
Well, Travers is injured, so straight off that's one team it couldn't be :)

Agree in general though. No idea what to expect. Serbia are off the back of a big win against Luxembourg (4-1) and really outplayed us for long spells in Belgrade, so I would be very wary of trying too much youth over experience here. Possibly the biggest selection issue tonight is Mitrovic, who's apparently struggling with injury (https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2021/0907/1245109-serbia-to-make-late-call-on-star-man-mitrovic/). It'd be a huge boost to us if he were missing, but I suspect it's just pre-match posturing and he'll be fine.

[Trequartista20]

Playing Arter would be madness. He's not a 'defensive midfielder' at all, he simply doesn't have the tactical discipline or temperament to play there. He's a box-to-box midfielder whose legs have gone, and is red card waiting to happen.

Why he's in the squad ahead of the likes of Kilkenny, Coventry and Doyle-Hayes is completely bewildering.

With half the campaign yet to play Kenny's created a situation where the rest of the matches are dead rubbers. I never thought we'd fall so far and so quickly.

Therefore we may as well give Kelleher, who'll be our number 1 long-term, game-time, play Omobamidele, give Manning a chance to show what he can do, try McGrath in a number 10 role and play Parrott in his favoured central position.

Sadly we've nothing to lose now.

[Diggs246]

Playing Arter would be madness. He's not a 'defensive midfielder' at all, he simply doesn't have the tactical discipline or temperament to play there. He's a box-to-box midfielder whose legs have gone, and is red card waiting to happen.

Why he's in the squad ahead of the likes of Kilkenny, Coventry and Doyle-Hayes is completely bewildering.

With half the campaign yet to play Kenny's created a situation where the rest of the matches are dead rubbers. I never thought we'd fall so far and so quickly.

Therefore we may as well give Kelleher, who'll be our number 1 long-term, game-time, play Omobamidele, give Manning a chance to show what he can do, try McGrath in a number 10 role and play Parrott in his favoured central position.

Sadly we've nothing to lose now.

100% agree on arter, shouldn't be near the squad, I just have a sneaky feeling he start him, 100% as well on McGrath get him on the pitch
Parrott was poor on Saturday, so I'm unsure on that one, but as u say we have nothing to lose

[pineapple stu]

I think there's always something to lose - a 4-0 battering would impact morale more than a 2-1 for example.

Coventry and Kilkenny in particular have done nothing to warrant a call-up. That's not to say Arter should start, but we can't just throw around random names and think that they'll slot into a game against Serbia without any impacts.

[zero]

100% agree on arter, shouldn't be near the squad, I just have a sneaky feeling he start him, 100% as well on McGrath get him on the pitch
Parrott was poor on Saturday, so I'm unsure on that one, but as u say we have nothing to lose

The Arter situation is strange - he is included in every squad but has he started under Kenny? once perhaps?

[pineapple stu]

Yep - Finland at home.

Also came on as a late sub against Andorra

[zero]

Connolly out with injury. A bit coincidental that he was hooked at HT the other day and his performance criticised but will take it at face value.

[pineapple stu]

Aaron Connolly injured now; Liam Scales and Cyrus Christie both in the matchday squad.

I guess this means Robinson up front. No harm - would have made that change anyway.

[Straightstory]

I'll be "enjoying" this one on TV. Mrs Backstothewall is working so I've to stay home with the kids, but being spared 200 miles plus change of a round trip to watch Kenny's Ireland feels like a blessing at this stage. Of the 6 season ticket holders I usually go down with, only 2 haven't found an excuse to sidestep this one.

Could anything more typify the fickle Irish football 'fan'? Only support the team when it's winning.
Will be interesting to see how big/small the crowd is tonight. I suspect a draw after a 'hard fought' effort from the Irish lads. The Kenny saga will rumble on.

[passinginterest]

Just seen the matchday squad there. Is it possible we'll be starting the 1 to 11? I think England did it the other night. That would be;
Bazunu
Doherty - Duffy - Egan - Manning
Cullen
Browne - Hourihane
Parrott - Idah - McClean

Considering Manning has been playing in a back 3 for club that could also be a 3-5-2 with McLean and Doherty wing backs

[pineapple stu]

It's another switch in formation is the downside I guess. Three at the back in the last two games, which surprised me against Azerbaijan, but it seems against Serbia we'll need to be a bit more defensive than on Saturday.

[paul_oshea]

It's another switch in formation is the downside I guess. Three at the back in the last two games, which surprised me against Azerbaijan, but it seems against Serbia we'll need to be a bit more defensive than on Saturday.

If its only switching between two formations depending on a top 2 or bottom 2/3 seeds then its not really an issue. If its changing formation more often and/or personnel then it is as it still shows hes not sure what his best formation and lineup is. It makes sense to use the space against Serbia as they'' be going down the middle a lot and packing out the midfield, their midfield is their strongest area. Bypass it or go around it a 3-5-2 makes sense then, that and the fact we dont have anyone really capable of getting on the ball behind the forwards and dictating the play.

[Trequartista20]

I think there's always something to lose - a 4-0 battering would impact morale more than a 2-1 for example.

Coventry and Kilkenny in particular have done nothing to warrant a call-up. That's not to say Arter should start, but we can't just throw around random names and think that they'll slot into a game against Serbia without any impacts.

Arter hasn't started a league match this year - I'm not talking about this season, but the entire calendar year of 2021!

And you say Kilkenny and Coventry, two promising young players whose careers are in the ascendency and who've done well for the U-21 side have 'done nothing to warrant a call-up'. You think Arter has? And Doyle-Hayes' form has been good for 12 months now.

I'm not quite sure what you mean when you accuse be of 'throwing around random names', I would consider the players I mentioned as viable alternatives.

And of course you could say many of the current squad don't 'warrant a call up', but you can only pick from what you can pick from. Some of the players named, like Arter, Molumby and Christie have played no first-team football at all this season.

I take your point about a hammering damaging confidence, but I don't expect that to happen.

[paul_oshea]

Sky sports reporting hourihane duffy and idah starting and mitrovic starting for Serbia.

[pineapple stu]

I did say "that's not to say Arter should start", and indeed there's a case that we've said for others (McGeady) that League One isn't really a suitable standard and I wouldn't be too bothered if Arter weren't in the squad. I'd be quite happy in fact to leave our all our third tier players until they were at a decent level. But we are where we are.

But Conor Coventry has started five league games ever, and they were in the third tier 18 months ago, and he was subbed off in two of those. Kilkenny has started four league games ever. Are they really worth an inclusion over Arter? Are they really viable alternatives? I don't think they've shown anything to indicate they are.

Yes, that means that - given we have really few options elsewhere - I'm arguing Arter is still worth a call-up. That's an indication really of just how bad our squad is. Putting in worse players won't improve that.

[paul_oshea]

Arter hasn't started a league match this year - I'm not talking about this season, but the entire calendar year of 2021!

And you say Kilkenny and Coventry, two promising young players whose careers are in the ascendency and who've done well for the U-21 side have 'done nothing to warrant a call-up'. You think Arter has? And Doyle-Hayes' form has been good for 12 months now.

I'm not quite sure what you mean when you accuse be of 'throwing around random names', I would consider the players I mentioned as viable alternatives.

And of course you could say many of the current squad don't 'warrant a call up', but you can only pick from what you can pick from. Some of the players named, like Arter, Molumby and Christie have played no first-team football at all this season.

I take your point about a hammering damaging confidence, but I don't expect that to happen.

I think his point is that young lads are just that, young lads, prospects thats all they are. If the other lads who are already in there and were the cream of the underage and theyre not doing anything then whats the point in picking others who are likely to contribute even less and take up an extra spot. Arter might be in there for experience in training and other stuff like that, i thought i saw brady yesterday in training. Horses for courses

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

Playing Arter would be madness. He's not a 'defensive midfielder' at all, he simply doesn't have the tactical discipline or temperament to play there. He's a box-to-box midfielder whose legs have gone, and is red card waiting to happen.

Why he's in the squad ahead of the likes of Kilkenny, Coventry and Doyle-Hayes is completely bewildering.

With half the campaign yet to play Kenny's created a situation where the rest of the matches are dead rubbers. I never thought we'd fall so far and so quickly.

Therefore we may as well give Kelleher, who'll be our number 1 long-term, game-time, play Omobamidele, give Manning a chance to show what he can do, try McGrath in a number 10 role and play Parrott in his favoured central position.

Sadly we've nothing to lose now.

Kenny is speaking out both sides of his mouth and is all over the place. I heard him talking on the radio today, asking did people expect us to qualify for the World Cup, we haven't qualified for one since 2002 and then saying he's building a squad for 2024. I think very few people expected us to qualify for the World Cup but who would have predicted we'd be joint last and effectively out of qualification after 2 games? If he was just going for youngsters and attempting to build, that would be one thing but that clearly is not what he has been doing. Most of his reign has reminded me of the Staunton era and his laughable excuses are definitely in line with that time. Staunton thought he shouldn't have been sacked and that he was building for the future. He was pointing out drawing with Germany and home, only losing 1-0 away, drawing with Czech Republic, beating Slovakia and games like that as a defense. He didn't mention the embarrassing results, same as with Kenny.

As for tonight, in one way I agree, we should be just giving youngsters a go but on the other hand, these players are being damaged by this set up. I hope they're protected from it until we get a competent manager in charge. In more similarities to the Stan era, I think we'll see a bounce back from an awful display. Possibly getting a draw.

[Trequartista20]

I accept you wouldn't start Arter, but if your point is that Kenny's sensibly going ​for experienced options then that argument rather falls down when you consider how he's not picked Randolph, Williams, Lenihan and has several times left Shane Long out of squads, to name a few.

How many league games has Omobamidele started? And yet he was thrown into the deep end against Portugal in a position, central defence, where experience should count for even more than midfield. Where's the consistency?

Would, for example, Randolph not offer useful experience to the youthful trio of goalkeepers Kenny called upon?

Kenny's (new) line seems to be that we should never have expected to compete in this group and that he's building for Euro '24.

With that in mind, if Arter's not going to play and is only there as cover why not go for more youthful options who can gain vital experience along the way. Maybe Kilkenny and Coventry aren't good enough, maybe they never will be. Who knows? Like you say, we're desperate, however when a player's career is in sharp decline, as is the case with Arter, and, sad to say McClean, who now have little to offer us, I personally would go for the youthful option in the hopes that they one day might be.

[zero]

I'm trying to remember the last time we had an essentially 'no stakes' competitive international... germany away with Noel King?

[Stuttgart88]

probably, but bear in mind coming 3rd in a Euros campaign got a play off spot not long ago.

[pineapple stu]

I accept you wouldn't start Arter, but if your point is that Kenny's sensibly going ​for experienced options then that argument rather falls down when you consider how he's not picked Randolph, Williams, Lenihan and has several times left Shane Long out of squads, to name a few.

How many league games has Omobamidele started? And yet he was thrown into the deep end against Portugal in a position, central defence, where experience should count for even more than midfield. Where's the consistency?
And I've argued against leaving Lenihan out of the squad. There was an argument that Randolph was left out to try secure a move in the transfer window, but he's also hardly played in two years. Williams - the MLS is another league that (rightly or wrongly) I don't think is really sufficient standard. I'm also not sure if there were covid quarantine issues there as well. In an ideal world I'd have all three in the squad, but certainly two of them haven't made it easy for themselves.

Bottom line though - yes, rebuild the squad. Throw in a young player here or there. But as a UCD fan, I can tell you bad things happen when you throw in half a team of young players with hardly any games at a suitable level and expect them to play ball against an adult side. So throw in Bazunu or Omabamidele or Idah or Parrott or Connolly or Scales or Coventry but if you start including multiple or even all of those players, then you've gone badly wrong. And that can be very badly self-defeating.

[Trequartista20]

Kenny is speaking out both sides of his mouth and is all over the place. I heard him talking on the radio today, asking did people expect us to qualify for the World Cup, we haven't qualified for one since 2002 and then saying he's building a squad for 2024. I think very few people expected us to qualify for the World Cup but who would have predicted we'd be joint last and effectively out of qualification after 2 games? If he was just going for youngsters and attempting to build, that would be one thing but that clearly is not what he has been doing. Most of his reign has reminded me of the Staunton era and his laughable excuses are definitely in line with that time. Staunton thought he shouldn't have been sacked and that he was building for the future. He was pointing out drawing with Germany and home, only losing 1-0 away, drawing with Czech Republic, beating Slovakia and games like that as a defense. He didn't mention the embarrassing results, same as with Kenny.

As for tonight, in one way I agree, we should be just giving youngsters a go but on the other hand, these players are being damaged by this set up. I hope they're protected from it until we get a competent manager in charge. In more similarities to the Stan era, I think we'll see a bounce back from an awful display. Possibly getting a draw.

I think that's a legitimate point. We're all fully cognizant of the fact we're lacking in quality, and no-one's expecting miracles. But at just what point do we accept Kenny's doing more harm than good, that he's actually damaging our medium-term prospects in terms of player morale, dwindling interest in the national side, player defections, ranking points that'll see us drop down the seedings, and general footballing confidence in this country?

Have we reached that point yet? I'm not sure, but if and when we do I think it'll then be time for Kenny to step aside.

As you allude to, after the Staunton debacle we were at a real low point, but we did turn it round, eventually.

We'll have no star name with the huge profile and personality of Trap to pick us off the floor this time, though. And that has to be borne in mind too.

[zero]

probably, but bear in mind coming 3rd in a Euros campaign got a play off spot not long ago.

It was just that one time though (right?). I think we'd all be pretty happy at this point to finish 3rd in this group.

[pineapple stu]

Portugal 2-0 up in Azerbaijan after 35 minutes. Lifts us off the bottom of the group at least...

[Straightstory]

I'm trying to remember the last time we had an essentially 'no stakes' competitive international... germany away with Noel King?

Last Saturday against Azerbaijan.

[zero]

Last Saturday against Azerbaijan.

fair point...

[Olé Olé]

1435291775426600961

So we got over run with two central midfielders the last night and Kenny has decided to go with four tonight. And McClean. I don't know...

[Olé Olé]

Could be 4-2-3-1 with McGrath on the wing or else 3-4-3 with McGrath and Browne behind Idah. I'm not sure. McClean is either left wing back or left wing. Not sure which I would rather.

[MylesNotMiley]

Not much pace in that team. Could be a lonely night for Idah.

[Trequartista20]

Hard to know what to make of that team selection. I can't quite see how we're going to line up. We certainly don't look to be carrying much of an attacking threat.

[Trequartista20]

Could it be Browne at wingback with McGrath and McClean either side of Idah in a 3-4-3?

[Bielsa´s irish]

Look at this ridiculous man he is playing. 5-4-1. To save his job

5-4-1!!

[paul_oshea]

Kenny said Robinson only felt had had 30 mins in the last day so to be fair he'd have been in there otherwise both games from what Kenny said

[shakermaker1982]

McClean needs a big game…

[paul_oshea]

Could it be Browne at wingback with McGrath and McClean either side of Idah in a 3-4-3?

He was very unclear/unsure speaking about the formation to TOD

[shakermaker1982]

He sounded equally unsure speaking to Sky Sports just now!

[Trequartista20]

Well, I hope the players know where they're supposed to be playing at least!

[Insidetherock]

How small is Cullen against those Serb midfielders?

And Hendrick keeps getting pushed off the ball too

[backstothewall]

I do like being there, but there's no doubt you get a better view of the game on telly.

Decent start, but we had a decent start on Saturday.