Liam Scales D Celtic b.1998

[Eirambler]

If it helps stir up the thread a bit, I still have a suspicion with Scales that he'll end up as a bit of a Darren O'Dea, Eoghan O'Connell type of player, he'll have his stint in the Celtic team, lose his place, move on and find his level in the bottom half of the Championship or League 1. I don't think he's close to a guaranteed starter for us. Not when we have three centre backs who are younger than him playing in the Premier League and another in Ligue 1.

[Snapshot]

If it helps stir up the thread a bit, I still have a suspicion with Scales that he'll end up as a bit of a Darren O'Dea, Eoghan O'Connell type of player, he'll have his stint in the Celtic team, lose his place, move on and find his level in the bottom half of the Championship or League 1. I don't think he's close to a guaranteed starter for us. Not when we have three centre backs who are younger than him playing in the Premier League and another in Ligue 1.

You're right. Liam Scales needs to play at a higher level.

In recent weeks O’Shea, Collins and Omobamidele have faced Salah (value £100m), Watkins (£60m), Cole Palmer (£42m), Nicolas Jackson (£32m), Diaz (£40m), Gakpo (£40m), Bowen (£25m). It’s more or less like that every week.

Next week Scales faces St Johnstone. It's not the same.

[ontheotherhand]

If it helps stir up the thread a bit, I still have a suspicion with Scales that he'll end up as a bit of a Darren O'Dea, Eoghan O'Connell type of player, he'll have his stint in the Celtic team, lose his place, move on and find his level in the bottom half of the Championship or League 1. I don't think he's close to a guaranteed starter for us. Not when we have three centre backs who are younger than him playing in the Premier League and another in Ligue 1.

Yeah I think the Championship will be the highest level he will reach.

The second part is fair as well really. I was only saying he was playing and in form, unlike others. He's a useful option to have with the left foot but if everyone is fit hes down the pecking order.

Still a good story with lots of room for opinion, which is maybe why Im surprised it doesn't get a bit more action here.

[pineapple stu]

Straight back into the Celtic starting line-up today, which is nice to see.

Idah still on the bench though. They play Livingston at 12

[tetsujin1979]

Signs a new four year contract with Celtic
https://www.celticfc.com/news/2024/may/03/liam-scales-signs-new-four-year-deal/

[Eirambler]

Congratulations to him, well deserved. He's no world beater but he's more than good enough for that level and he has a contract now at a decent standard up to his 30th birthday.

Plus the new contract decision is well worth it alone just for the five pages of absolute outrage I've just read from Celtic fans on his thread on the Kerrydale Street forum.

[seanfhear]

Congratulations to him, well deserved. He's no world beater but he's more than good enough for that level and he has a contract now at a decent standard up to his 30th birthday.

Plus the new contract decision is well worth it alone just for the five pages of absolute outrage I've just read from Celtic fans on his thread on the Kerrydale Street forum.
Celtic fans are a pretty delusional bunch ~ Especially when you consider the earning power of Celtic re; The Scottish Premier League.

Scales is certainly good enough to be a squad player for Celtic and fighting for a first team place.

[CSAD]

Celtic fans are a pretty delusional bunch ~ Especially when you consider the earning power of Celtic re; The Scottish Premier League.

Scales is certainly good enough to be a squad player for Celtic and fighting for a first team place.

It's why I would like Scales (& Lawal tbh) to go as soon as possible, Celtic just comes across as such a toxic club. I would understand their moaning if they were doing well in Europe and looked good in general but they are bottom of their CL group every season, you'd think they'd have a bit of a reality check of where they are as a club by now.

[seanfhear]

It's why I would like Scales (& Lawal tbh) to go as soon as possible, Celtic just comes across as such a toxic club. I would understand their moaning if they were doing well in Europe and looked good in general but they are bottom of their CL group every season, you'd think they'd have a bit of a reality check of where they are as a club by now.
Living off past glories in a ridiculous league ~ ~ Bound to have strange out-workings in the mind !

[ontheotherhand]

Voted into the player's team of the season as well. Great year for him but you wouldn't know it from listening to some Celtic fans. Case in point that football fans haven't a clue sometimes. Not us of course.

[Stuttgart88]

I read one criticism of him in Celtic twitter that he only ever looks to play the ball backwards. That said it all for me.

He’s had a great season and surpassed all expectations. I’m a big fan. That said if I was managing / recruiting for Celtic I’d probably look for an upgrade.

[Eirambler]

Yes I think it's possible to argue that Celtic are absolutely entitled to look for an upgrade on him as a first team starter, but still feel that he is fully deserving of a four year contract based on the season he's just had. Even if they do sign an upgrade he could easily be an important squad/rotation player for them over the next four years, so it makes sense to upgrade his contract. The response to the contract decision from Celtic fans is nothing short of appalling and yet again shows them in a very poor light.

[Rayzor]

Some of the replies on here are horrifically comical, ie Celtic play in scotland so their fans should be gratefull he signed a new contract, they watch him every week and are entitled to judge if he's good enough. Scales started the season very well but the general feeling amongst their fanbase, is that he's been fairly rank for the last few months and shouldn't be starting for them every week.

[seanfhear]

Some of the replies on here are horrifically comical, ie Celtic play in scotland so their fans should be gratefull he signed a new contract, they watch him every week and are entitled to judge if he's good enough. Scales started the season very well but the general feeling amongst their fanbase,is that he'd been fairly rank for the last few months and shouldn't be starting for them every week.
Fair enough ~ ~ But Celtic fans are usually delusional, so it is easy to feel that they are being their usual delusional !

[Eirambler]

Some of the replies on here are horrifically comical, ie Celtic play in scotland so their fans should be gratefull he signed a new contract, they watch him every week and are entitled to judge if he's good enough. Scales started the season very well but the general feeling amongst their fanbase, is that he's been fairly rank for the last few months and shouldn't be starting for them every week.

If they had better players I'm sure they'd be playing instead. They don't, he'll have been a major contributor to their title win if they go on to win it, and he fully deserves a contract on what is unlikely to be exceptional wages. Scales isn't the problem here.

[Stuttgart88]

Prompted by Eirambler's mention of Scales in the Duffy thread, his end of season (maybe excluding the cup semi final - though I can't decide whether Scales or Taylor was more to blame) showed a real return to his early season form I think. I'm actually impressed by how commanding he is in the air, defensively at least. He has a good leap and times his jumps well. Kilmarnock had a guy with a dangerous long throw-in and he attacked the ball well a few times.

He was unlucky with a shot from distance tipped over by O'Hara. All players get lucky with a pot shot now and again and I wouldn't point to it as evidence of anything you'd expect to see more regularly, but a spectacular goal would have been a deserved reward for a good season. That said, I think he has left a few headed chances from set pieces out there. He could be looking at 5 or 6 goals a season.

[nigel-harps1954]

Goal and a clean sheet today as Celtic won the Scottish Premier League again.

[CraftyToePoke]

Was watching this today and Kilmarnock were playing so deep, he was in the midfield probing role on the edge of the box at times and he found one really nice through ball down between the CB & FB with the dead ball line very close, it had to be just the right weight and fair play, he found it.

[Acornvilla]

Another start and clean sheet today. Glad he's managed to tough it out and BR has trusted him to play consistently.

[Rayzor]

Celtic fans are a pretty delusional bunch ~ Especially when you consider the earning power of Celtic re; The Scottish Premier League.

Scales is certainly good enough to be a squad player for Celtic and fighting for a first team place.

Celtic are absolutely loaded, their last set of accounts showed they have 80m in the bank, they probably have another 20m from this year's season tickets, they are guaranteed at least 40m with the change of champions league format, they are in process of selling OReilly to Brighton for 30m. So that's about 170m budget for players that their board won't spend. Unfortunately for Scales, a lot of the fan base believe they should be signing better players and their frustration are heaped onto him and Greg Taylor.

[tetsujin1979]

Its tough to get players to move to Scotland as well

[CraftyToePoke]

Its tough to get players to move to Scotland as well

It is & Celtic could empty that bank account into the first team & still end up with a Scottish title & out of Europe somewhere around Christmas, just before or after & would it have represented value ? Nope.

[Eirambler]

Well spent, through proper scouting and top level coaching once players are signed, there's no reason why they couldn't be another Ajax, PSV, Bruges or similar. They're just not well enough set up as a club to do it though.

[CraftyToePoke]

Well spent, through proper scouting and top level coaching once players are signed, there's no reason why they couldn't be another Ajax, PSV, Bruges or similar. They're just not well enough set up as a club to do it though.

Yeah but that isn't what the fan unrest is about. They want marquee names I'd wager.

Where are they in comparison to the three clubs you mentioned, European performance wise in recent seasons ? Wouldn't know without looking it up. Can't be too far off those as it stands?

[Eirambler]

In terms of UEFA club coefficient those clubs are 25th, 26th and 32nd. Celtic are 69th.

[CraftyToePoke]

In terms of UEFA club coefficient those clubs are 25th, 26th and 32nd. Celtic are 69th.

Right.
& where they got to in the European comps last year before meeting real teams ?

[Stuttgart88]

Yeah but that isn't what the fan unrest is about. They want marquee names I'd wager.

Where are they in comparison to the three clubs you mentioned, European performance wise in recent seasons ? Wouldn't know without looking it up. Can't be too far off those as it stands?
I don’t think Celtic fans are looking for marquee players. I think they’re frustrated with the persistent purchase of speculative young players rather than experience. Every purchase seems to be with an eye on a profitable sale in 2 years. There’s no real evidence of planning. Even this week MOR is off to Brighton with no hint of a replacement. And with a new CL format you’d want to be strengthening the team rather than struggling to keep it the same.

[Poor Student]

Yeah but that isn't what the fan unrest is about. They want marquee names I'd wager.

Where are they in comparison to the three clubs you mentioned, European performance wise in recent seasons ? Wouldn't know without looking it up. Can't be too far off those as it stands?

Celtic fans' unrest emanates from the antiquated, stale and stagnant governance of the club which adopts almost pathological levels of fiscal conservatism whereby there is almost no risk appetite and the club has stockpiled over £60m cash and growing. Scales is serviceable and generally adequate defensively in the SPFL but for a possession based team playing against the low block he does not move the ball quick enough and accurately enough. He's also prone to getting caught under high angled diagonals. He's good enough to be relied upon as 3rd or 4th choice centre half but Celtic definitely have the resources to upgrade on him. Celtic will still probably finish ahead of Rangers without upgrading on him (and some others) but they won't progress in Europe and this is what frustrates fans. Fans don't expect to be winning the CL but there are peer European clubs with similar or smaller budgets and less resources doing better. The scale of ambition of Desmond and his appointed Board and Executive seems to be to do enough to keep their nose ahead of Rangers and continue to stockpile enormous amounts of cash for no communicated purpose. That would frustrate the fans of any club.

[Poor Student]

Celtic are absolutely loaded, their last set of accounts showed they have 80m in the bank, they probably have another 20m from this year's season tickets, they are guaranteed at least 40m with the change of champions league format, they are in process of selling OReilly to Brighton for 30m. So that's about 170m budget for players that their board won't spend. Unfortunately for Scales, a lot of the fan base believe they should be signing better players and their frustration are heaped onto him and Greg Taylor.

You forgot about the outgoings for the season - wages, operational expenses etc.

[Rayzor]

You forgot about the outgoings for the season - wages, operational expenses etc.


Nah I didn't, Celtic revenue last season was 119 million, their wage bill was around the 24 million mark, so when I said 20m from this season season tickets I was been very conservative. They also have the 17 highest shirt sales in world football and with guaranteed more money from this year's champ league format, they are absolutely minted.

[JR89]

Nah I didn't, Celtic revenue last season was 119 million, their wage bill was around the 24 million mark, so when I said 20m from this season season tickets I was been very conservative. They also have the 17 highest shirt sales in world football and with guaranteed more money from this year's champ league format, they are absolutely minted.

They're guaranteed a minimum of £17.4M from the CL

[Rayzor]

They're guaranteed a minimum of £17.4M from the CL


https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/what-celtic-earn-blockbuster-champions-32791760?int_source=amp_continue_reading&int_medium=amp&int_campaign=continue_reading_button#amp-readmore-target

[Eirambler]

Looks like they're about to spend a chunk of that on a left footed centre-back to replace Scales, Auston Trusty.

[Eirambler]

Scales not giving up his starting place without a fight anyway, did well today in the Glasgow derby.

[Olé Olé]

Can't Trusty play left back too? And he cost 6m. Would Scales cost that too?

[liamoo11]

Can't Trusty play left back too? And he cost 6m. Would Scales cost that too?

Sheffield utd were pretty poor at the back

[Trequartista20]

Scales not giving up his starting place without a fight anyway, did well today in the Glasgow derby.

And neither should he be expected to be ousted from the team easily; he's generally done very well.

If Scales were a Japanese or Israeli international, you suspect he would be held in far greater esteem by the Celtic support, who generally come across as having unfounded and grandiose ideas about their club's standing in the game, almost to the point of outright delusion, as well as being rather unpleasant all round.

[Stuttgart88]

If Scales were a Japanese or Israeli international, you suspect he would be held in far greater esteem by the Celtic supportRodgers says pretty much the same here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c4glxgllxr7o

Did very well yesterday.

[tetsujin1979]

1836486027063558428

[Fixer82]

Bullet header

[Bottle of Tonic]

Played well. I thought he was good start of last season too. Great for him and Idah to score on the stage you want to be playing. A few of the anti Celtic crowd here probably with mixed feelings this morning. If only they'd managed Lee O Connor and Jonathan Afolabi as well where would ROI be now??

[pineapple stu]

So players at Celtic do well and it's a good place for them to be, but players at Celtic do badly and it's Celtic's fault?

I think there's a bit of bias there to be honest.

Great to see Scales score though (and indeed Idah, although the link with UCD playing in Europe on the same night meant Scales' goal meant more at the Bowl). Slovan are going to set all sorts of CL records given they have Man City, Bayern (who just won 9-2), Atletico, Stuttgart, AC Milan and Girona to come.

[Bottle of Tonic]

So players at Celtic do well and it's a good place for them to be, but players at Celtic do badly and it's Celtic's fault?

I think there's a bit of bias there to be honest.



Exactly. It's biased both ways.

There's lots of factors going in to whether a player makes it or not. Talent and dedication being foremost.

Celtic can be a great platform for many players as its a quicker route to medals and European football than you'll get nearly anywhere else.

But if you don't make it you don't make and Celtic move on and sign another. Same as at any club in the business of winning really.

[pineapple stu]

Fair enough. I'll agree with that though it's not how I read your post!

[texidub]

delighted for scales (and UCD!) -

[tetsujin1979]

:)
1836686687855952025

[Stuttgart88]

Very good. My team won the Superleague in 1987, best thing I achieved in UCD.

[Eirambler]

I think there's a difference in signing for a Celtic as a senior player compared to signing as a youth. There's no issue going there once you're getting first team games, in fact as last night showed it can be a great club to be at. The issue is their conversion of youth players to senior players. Who was the last Irish player Celtic signed as a teenager who went on to have a high level career? I can't think of many (any?) since Liam Miller, and he broke through there over 20 years ago.

It's not just Irish players either, they're just not good at bringing young players through their youth system and in to the first team, and getting them to a standard where they can establish themselves at that level. But give them a player where that work has been done elsewhere, and they can provide a platform for them to showcase their abilities and move on to another level in time.

[elatedscum]

So players at Celtic do well and it's a good place for them to be, but players at Celtic do badly and it's Celtic's fault?

I think there's a bit of bias there to be honest.

Great to see Scales score though (and indeed Idah, although the link with UCD playing in Europe on the same night meant Scales' goal meant more at the Bowl). Slovan are going to set all sorts of CL records given they have Man City, Bayern (who just won 9-2), Atletico, Stuttgart, AC Milan and Girona to come.

I think there's just a bit of nuance. It's a good place to sign at 23. It's a terrible place to sign at 16 or 17 or 18. Obviously depends a bit of the level of the individual player, like for Arnie Engels, who is a hugely promising footballer, he's ready to make a huge impact at 21 - but you want to sign there at a time when you're ready to be a first team regular - because as a kid, they'll keep signing good lads in that 22/23 range to sign.

(wrote this before Eirambler's response - basically the saying the same thing)

[SkStu]

Moving to Celtic as a youngster with first team potential is high risk, high reward decision. Not one i would recommend to any promising youngster myself.