Bosun Lawal M Stoke b.2003

[tetsujin1979]

First appearance for Celtic's B side at the weekend for Lawal, marked with a goal
Skip to 1:50 below
OH3G8hJ3afY

[Exgrad]

So he's another centre back...thought he was a midfielder.

[bainneban]

Watford U23 coach said
"He's taken to 23s football like a duck to water. He was good in and out of possession, strong and powerful and he's going to be a good player for us.It's a good debate about whether he is a centre-half or a central midfield player. I'm not going to pigeonhole him. I just think it's great he can play at the back and step into midfield and also defend so well aerially.
I'm looking forward to seeing him develop."

[elatedscum]

he can play both positions but so far in his career he's played mostly centre midfield

[Eirambler]

Fully expect Celtic to turn him into a Scottish non league standard centre back then!

Honestly, there's a small chance that he is excellent from the off and will force his way into the Celtic squad in the short term in the same way that Frimpong did. It's not like they're overloaded with talented centre backs. More likely though he disappears into their lowland league team, has a few Scottish lower league loans in the next few years and then a journeyman career after that in the English lower leagues.

[tetsujin1979]

Named as a substitute today
1606609380090077184

[CraftyToePoke]

Was on the bench v Aberdeen last week also.

[elatedscum]

made his competitive debut in the cup yesterday against Morton. Brought on at centre back while 5-0 up in the 87th minute

[Eirambler]

He's wasting his time in Glasgow.

[Razors left peg]

He's wasting his time in Glasgow.
Why? He's a 19 year old who just made his debut. Seems like things are going well.

If you mean about the lack of development by other Irish players there, how many have proved they are good enough for Celtic 1st team since they left?

[third policeman]

Why? He's a 19 year old who just made his debut. Seems like things are going well.

If you mean about the lack of development by other Irish players there, how many have proved they are good enough for Celtic 1st team since they left?

I'd seriously fancy Barnsley to give Celtic a game, so maybe Connell. If they get promoted and he's playing in the Championship next season, he'll be at a higher level than the SPL already.

[Razors left peg]

I'd seriously fancy Barnsley to give Celtic a game, so maybe Connell. If they get promoted and he's playing in the Championship next season, he'll be at a higher level than the SPL already.

I genuinely don't know how to answer that.... I'd put in a facepalm meme if I knew how :D

[Eirambler]

Why? He's a 19 year old who just made his debut. Seems like things are going well.

If you mean about the lack of development by other Irish players there, how many have proved they are good enough for Celtic 1st team since they left?

Yesterday told you all that's needed to know about Celtic's approach to youth development. If you're not going to give a few young lads a proper run out in a game like that, when are you going to do it?

Morton were hopeless and they were always going to be. But Celtic still named a really strong starting team full of senior players. 4-0 up at half time they sent on the likes of Matt O'Riley and James Forrest during the second half. Poor old Bosun got five minutes at the end.

Celtic probably think that's what youth development is, giving 19 year olds five minutes against lower league opposition. Must be soul destroying for their B team lads, getting token minutes in cup games (Lawal), or maybe even similarly few minutes in a league game that's already won if they think they might be a flight risk (Vata).

It's no wonder that anyone decent that they've had in the youth setup in recent years has left when they've had a chance to.

[Razors left peg]

I've said this a few times on here. Celtic sign Internationals from all over the world. Generally they are good pros for 5 million plus. It's not a simple thing for any young player to break in ahead of these guys.

I can't think of any young player Irish or otherwise who was being held back and went onto to great things after leaving Celtic. You have to be exceptional as a youth to break in.

OkoFlex, Afolabi, Kenny, Connell are all Irish players in last few years who people were complaining about not getting a chance. Connell only one who looks somewhat decent. Afolabi was on loan in Scotish Championship and hardly scored. He'd want to be top goalscorer in that league for Celtic to even consider him and now he's on bench in LOI.

Celtics B team play in Scotish Highland league now. Same thing applies, you need to be dominant there before the 1st team should look at you.

Lawal is obviously training with 1st team now, Vata too I'd imagine. Are they standing out in training, forcing the manager to pick them?

Yesterday was a start for Lawal, let's see if he can build on it, it's up to him to show he's good enough

[Jd2793]

really is amazing that a 19 yr old cam make his celtic debut after a few bench apps and lads on here want him to leave

[third policeman]

Maybe a hint of exaggeration for effect, but I'd seriously contend that the Championship is a higher standard to SPL. How good are Celtic? How good are their players? Well they're hardly covering themselves in glory in Europe where they are struggling to compete and players like Rogic and Ntcham who were mainstays at Celtic are looking very average in the Championship at the minute, so as things stand, there is a decent chance that Connell may well prove to be a player who could have held his own at Celtic. Let's see what happens.

[Razors left peg]

As an over all standard the Championship is better than SPL, but Celtic and Rangers are above that and have both done well in Europe in recent years.

I'm still not hearing of any player who left Celtic and excelled to prove them wrong. I do hope Connell is brilliant though, but as yet he's proved nothing

[Jd2793]

Championship is better overall yeh, but to be good for celtic/rangers you need to be top 6/8 level championship player at a minimum i would say. ultimately those 2 want to challenge in europe and you wont get by with l1 level players. im delighted to see connell doing well but was he ever really going to be a lad who'd hold his own on a championship contender/old firm euro team? look at scales, he got a few league games, did ok by all accounts then played in europe dropped a few stinkers and celtic went back to playing a rb at lb leaving scales out of squads etc. you have to be a different level of footballer for those old firm sides so comparing the leagues doesnt work in this case IMO

[CSAD]

As been said before, it’s pointless trying to reason with Celtic fans.

[Jd2793]

As been said before, it’s pointless trying to reason with Celtic fans.

some posters on here need to make up their minds. i was a liverpool fan yesterday, now im a celtic fan. better call cork city and cancel my season ticket

[Eirambler]

Yesterday was a start for Lawal, let's see if he can build on it, it's up to him to show he's good enough

A start would have been a start. What that was yesterday was a complete waste of time.

As for the whole "none of the players we let go ever go on to anything" argument, any player they let go has to undo the damage of however many years proper first team development they've lost at Celtic first in order to do anything. Obviously not every player that goes to Celtic is going to make it (and the best young Irish players have thankfully steered well clear of the place), but Connell is having to steadily undo three years worth of damage to his development at Barnsley this season, and fair play to him for what he's doing. Because Celtic just sent him off to the Scottish lower leagues and forgot about him once they realised he wasn't instantly ready to play in their first team. Who knows where he'd be if he had spent those years in the Championship or League 1 in England, playing at a level appropriate to his ability instead of playing against part time players in mud covered hellholes around Scotland.

I actually laughed this weekend when it was noted in an article I read that Celtic were one of the clubs in for Evan Ferguson back when he left Bohs. Can you imagine if he had gone there, he'd now likely be a big 18 year old lad dominating the Lowland League, having probably not been improved at all technically from when he left Ireland, hoping he might be granted a few minutes with the first team in a dead rubber game before the season is out - if he's lucky.

[John83]

Lads, knock off the Celtic youth development 'debate'. You've all made your points multiple times. Discuss Lawal or get off this thread.

[Eirambler]

Lads, knock off the Celtic youth development 'debate'. You've all made your points multiple times. Discuss Lawal or get off this thread.

With the best will in the world John, given that Lawal is literally a Celtic youth development player, wanting everyone to discuss one without the other is setting a hell of a bar for posting in this thread.

But fine, I'll have a go. Here's my prediction of how things will go at Celtic from here for Lawal - who was identified by Troy Deeney a couple of years ago as the biggest youth talent in the entire Watford setup at that time. He'll leave Celtic in the next couple of years, having played little first team football in Scotland. He'll sign for a lower league team in England and go on from there to have a solid, if unspectacular, career - but sadly not reaching the heights it was originally forecast that he could reach.

Why does he fail to fulfil his potential? It will just remain a mystery I suppose. Just one of those things, football is all a bit of a lottery at the end of the day...

[CSAD]

Lads, knock off the Celtic youth development 'debate'. You've all made your points multiple times. Discuss Lawal or get off this thread.

Yeah lads don’t you dare talk about the club this player plays for.

[elatedscum]

Regarding Lawal, 2003 is a bit of an unusual year. Normally, there’s one player who is considered the star of the year from about u15/u16/u17 upwards:

1998 - Kelleher
1999 - Molumby (Rice initially)
2000 - Obafemi
2001 - Collins
2002 - Parrott
2003 - Any of a load of players
2004 - Ferguson
2005 - Zefi
2006 - Kone Doherty
2007 - Orazi

Obviously they don’t always pan out and often others come to the fore. But 2003, never had that one or two or three players who were streets above the rest. I think if you’d asked the 10 people with the most knowledge to pick their three most promising players, you’d probably have gotten 15-20 different names:

Genuinely over the past 5 years, at different moments, I’ve heard or seen people talk up:

Rose
A Doherty
Keeley
G O’Brien
Garcia McNulty
L Kavanagh
Lawal
Roughan
Adaramola
Henry Francis
McCormack
Moran
Finn
Caffrey
Ibrahim
Gilsenen
C Kavanagh
Harkin
Armstrong
Kenny

If I were guessing, Lawal is probably the third most hyped player after Moran and O’Neill - that’s generally an international quality player

1999 - Molumby, O’Shea, Travers
2000 - Obafemi, Connolly, Smallbone
2001 - Collins, Knight, Idah
2002 - Parrott, Bazunu, Omobamidele
2003 - Moran, O’Neill, Lawal

So maybe that’s where the bar is, if you look at the last name on each of those years, but like I said, 2003 is a strange year. Could see it being a really excellent one which produces loads of quality players or could see it being really barren

[John83]

Yeah lads don’t you dare talk about the club this player plays for.
The last such discussion turned into pages of off topic fights that didn't mention the player at all. You want to talk about Celtic's youth development, make a thread.

[Olé Olé]

Regarding Lawal, 2003 is a bit of an unusual year. Normally, there’s one player who is considered the star of the year from about u15/u16/u17 upwards:

1998 - Kelleher
1999 - Molumby (Rice initially)
2000 - Obafemi
2001 - Collins
2002 - Parrott
2003 - Any of a load of players
2004 - Ferguson
2005 - Zefi
2006 - Kone Doherty
2007 - Orazi

Obviously they don’t always pan out and often others come to the fore. But 2003, never had that one or two or three players who were streets above the rest. I think if you’d asked the 10 people with the most knowledge to pick their three most promising players, you’d probably have gotten 15-20 different names:

Genuinely over the past 5 years, at different moments, I’ve heard or seen people talk up:

Rose
A Doherty
Keeley
G O’Brien
Garcia McNulty
L Kavanagh
Lawal
Roughan
Adaramola
Henry Francis
McCormack
Moran
Finn
Caffrey
Ibrahim
Gilsenen
C Kavanagh
Harkin
Armstrong
Kenny

If I were guessing, Lawal is probably the third most hyped player after Moran and O’Neill - that’s generally an international quality player

1999 - Molumby, O’Shea, Travers
2000 - Obafemi, Connolly, Smallbone
2001 - Collins, Knight, Idah
2002 - Parrott, Bazunu, Omobamidele
2003 - Moran, O’Neill, Lawal

So maybe that’s where the bar is, if you look at the last name on each of those years, but like I said, 2003 is a strange year. Could see it being a really excellent one which produces loads of quality players or could see it being really barren

Fair to say the class of 2002 have achieved a lot more in the last 12 months than those of 2003 are likely to in the next 12? For starters, Parrott made his debut in 2019 and the other two in 2021. You name Parrott as the star of the year which was probably fair at a point in time but the other two closed that gap considerably and have probably surpassed him by now. Difficult to know where along the curve the 2003 lads are that you name. Armstrong and Roughan have made more of an impact at senior level so far, albeit at different levels to the three you identify who are at bigger clubs. It's a funny group overall that 2003 group. I'm hard pressed to pick a certainty for multiple senior caps. Any ideas?

[Stuttgart88]

Not sure if this is allowed(!) but Postecoglou is a new element to the Celtic discussion. He's only there 18 months. He was at least decisive when it came to Connell and the fact that he has Lawal close to the first team seems to me to be a telling indication that Postecoglou believes there's something to see here. They appear to be releasing a young Danish guy who only arrived 6 months ago or so. The SPL is a mistake-free zone for the top two and managers can't be taking chances on younger players too often.

[CSAD]

Regarding Lawal, 2003 is a bit of an unusual year. Normally, there’s one player who is considered the star of the year from about u15/u16/u17 upwards:

1998 - Kelleher
1999 - Molumby (Rice initially)
2000 - Obafemi
2001 - Collins
2002 - Parrott
2003 - Any of a load of players
2004 - Ferguson
2005 - Zefi
2006 - Kone Doherty
2007 - Orazi

Obviously they don’t always pan out and often others come to the fore. But 2003, never had that one or two or three players who were streets above the rest. I think if you’d asked the 10 people with the most knowledge to pick their three most promising players, you’d probably have gotten 15-20 different names:

Genuinely over the past 5 years, at different moments, I’ve heard or seen people talk up:

Rose
A Doherty
Keeley
G O’Brien
Garcia McNulty
L Kavanagh
Lawal
Roughan
Adaramola
Henry Francis
McCormack
Moran
Finn
Caffrey
Ibrahim
Gilsenen
C Kavanagh
Harkin
Armstrong
Kenny

If I were guessing, Lawal is probably the third most hyped player after Moran and O’Neill - that’s generally an international quality player

1999 - Molumby, O’Shea, Travers
2000 - Obafemi, Connolly, Smallbone
2001 - Collins, Knight, Idah
2002 - Parrott, Bazunu, Omobamidele
2003 - Moran, O’Neill, Lawal

So maybe that’s where the bar is, if you look at the last name on each of those years, but like I said, 2003 is a strange year. Could see it being a really excellent one which produces loads of quality players or could see it being really barren

I would say Moran is certainly the best prospect of the 03 group but I don’t think the gap is streets ahead let’s say. After Moran I think you could make a case for quite a few players. I also think Garcia McNulty is up there with Lawal & O’Neill, maybe Sinclair Armstrong also.

[Olé Olé]

I would say Moran is certainly the best prospect of the 03 group but I don’t think the gap is streets ahead let’s say. After Moran I think you could make a case for quite a few players. I also think Garcia McNulty is up there with Lawal & O’Neill, maybe Sinclair Armstrong also.

Keeley, Roughan, McNulty, O'Neill, Moran and Adaromala - anyone else from that cohort already been called up to 21s?

O'Neill is the one to have made the biggest impact at that level in the context of his goal against Sweden especially. He looks a serious prospect.

Again, interesting how none of them have made a senior impact (bar Roughan at League One and McNulty in Dutch second tier - Moran's sole appearance and Adaramola's uneventful loan stint discounted)?

[ifk101]

The SPL is a mistake-free zone for the top two and managers can't be taking chances on younger players too often.

Could that statement be flipped? - i.e. Celtic and Rangers are so dominant in the SPL that this gives them more opportunities than others to introduce younger players to their teams.

[tetsujin1979]

Could that statement be flipped? - i.e. Celtic and Rangers are so dominant in the SPL that this gives them more opportunities than others to introduce younger players to their teams.

Not really, any mistake by either team basically gifts the league to the other, and with it Champions League qualification, and the money that comes with it.

[ifk101]

Bar the Old Firm games, is it not one way traffic in games against the other SPL teams? And if it isn't, Celtic/ Rangers have underperformed? Celtic have a +52 goal difference after 22 league games, in their most recent league game against St Mirren, which they won 4-0, they had 76% possession etc etc - point being, they are clearly superior to the rest of SPL, they have room to make mistakes and still win games with ease. And I'm sure the current first team make mistakes as is.

[Stuttgart88]

I see your logic alright but the evidence is that every single game is taken very seriously and no risks are taken for the sake of blooding young players. While several games pan out like you say several others have required late goals to secure the points. Despite the imbalance in quality an off day by an OF team coupled with a bit of luck, a gutsy opposition performance and Scottish VAR (!) makes every game critical.

[Eirambler]

A lot of games are wrapped up by the hour mark though. If they made the effort they could be giving lads 30 minutes of decent football on a regular basis. The reason they don't is that youth development is an afterthought - they consistently pad their squad out with punts from around Europe and further afield and it's them that get those 30 minute run out instead.

Regarding the 2003 bunch I would have said Adaramola was the best prospect until things didn't work out for him on loan this season. Armstrong and Moran certainly pushing on more than him this year. O'Neill could kick on quickly with the right loan move but unlikely to get much of a chance at Fulham.

[nigel-harps1954]

Not really, any mistake by either team basically gifts the league to the other, and with it Champions League qualification, and the money that comes with it.

Top two both had Champions League this year though didn't they?

[irishfan86]

Second place in Scotland has to go through the Champions League third qualifying round, so not an automatic pass to the group stage.

[elatedscum]

Keeley, Roughan, McNulty, O'Neill, Moran and Adaromala - anyone else from that cohort already been called up to 21s?

O'Neill is the one to have made the biggest impact at that level in the context of his goal against Sweden especially. He looks a serious prospect.

Again, interesting how none of them have made a senior impact (bar Roughan at League One and McNulty in Dutch second tier - Moran's sole appearance and Adaramola's uneventful loan stint discounted)?

Called up by the 21s: (excluding the weird double squad before Montenegro with a second LOI squad which probably contained guys like Jonny Kenny and Cian Kavanagh)

Rose
Keeley
Lawal
Garcia-McNulty
Roughan
Adaramola
Moran
O'Neill
Armstrong
Finn

It's quite a lot considering they would have been playing 3 years above the grade.

2002 by comparison is about the same despite them being a year older:

Bazunu*
Blair
Ebosele
Boyce
Omobamadele*
Hodge
Phillips
Parrott*
Okoflex
Costelloe
Odubeko

2004:
Ferguson*

[Fixer82]

I'm assuming he's eligible for someone else? And if so, who? Although he's represented us since U15 so probably wouldn't be an issue if it came down to it

[JR89]

Nigeria. Most players descent African for us their parents came over from Nigeria.

[Kingdom]

That's a quality post ES. That is what foot.ie should be about.
nice one.

[Fixer82]

Nigeria. Most players descent African for us their parents came over from Nigeria.

Both parents from Nigeria. Would have no problem with him declaring for them. Totally get someone with parents playing for that country ( a la Kilbane, Breen etc.)

But hopefully he keeps going the way he is and does a job for us

[Poor Student]

Celtic's Bs are playing in the Premier League International Cup. He captained Celtic to a 2-2 draw with Leicester last night. Average age of 20 v 22, so there's good opportunities between the Challenge Cup, Glasgow Cup and International Cup to get a test above Lowland League level too this season.

[tetsujin1979]

Highlights on YouTube
Ben Quinn played too, Shane Flynn in midfield for Leicester
T0tJf1-t41w

[Poor Student]

Highlights on YouTube
Ben Quinn played too, Shane Flynn in midfield for Leicester
T0tJf1-t41w

He was instrumental in that first goal with his foray out of defence and ball down the right.

[tommy_c12000]

Back to starring for the B team again, now that big Ange got his statistics up to 2 B team player senior team appearances for the season. Who’s next for a token few minutes at the end of another dead rubber Scottish premier league game, Ben Quinn? State-of-the-art player development

[seanfhear]

Back to starring for the B team again, now that big Ange got his statistics up to 2 B team player senior team appearances for the season. Who’s next for a token few minutes at the end of another dead rubber Scottish premier league game, Ben Quinn? State-of-the-art player development
Maybe these players don't have any better offers than to go to Celtic ~ Just a thought.

It must be very competitive ( for the clubs ) for the best young players.

[Eirambler]

Really, unless they had no other offers at all...

Vata and Lawal could absolutely be at more suitable places for their development. In fairness Vata is a local lad and might hopefully move on soon if he's got ambition. Lawal, I suspect, followed the money as I can't see why he'd have gone up to Glasgow otherwise.

[CSAD]

Maybe these players don't have any better offers than to go to Celtic ~ Just a thought.

It must be very competitive ( for the clubs ) for the best young players.

Yeah I’m really sure that is the reason!

[seanfhear]

Yeah I’m really sure that is the reason!
I assume if they had better offers than Celtic they would take the better offers.

Why would they go to Celtic if they had better offers ?