2022 FIFA World Cup

[BonnieShels]

You don't really care if we qualify or not, yet not qualifying would be heartbreaking, but a broken heart that you could accept........ in some context?

The whole Qatar thing sullies my interest in qualifying for WC2022. But progress in any form is the priority. I would have assumed your imperious intellect would have cottoned onto the sentiment that I was attempting to convey.


I think you've mis-read the bauld Bonnie - he doesn't say "not qualifying would be heartbreaking". He does say that even a Henry handball play-off extra-time defeat would, in the bigger picture, be a sign of progress and overall a good outcome from the group.

(Is my reading of the post anyway)

Even Stu's UCD education was no barrier to him understanding the post and its sentiment.

[geysir]

The whole Qatar thing sullies my interest in qualifying for WC2022. But progress in any form is the priority. I would have assumed your imperious intellect would have cottoned onto the sentiment that I was attempting to convey.



Even Stu's UCD education was no barrier to him understanding the post and its sentiment.
Not even Stu could bail you out with a creative flight of fancy.

Qatar is a dream location for a football tournament in winter. What makes Qatar any more corrupt than what went with the organisation of the WC in South Africa and Brazil, amid the bowels of poverty and inequality? All much of a muchness with bribery and construction worker exploitation, but I'd argue SA and Brazil come out much worse in other areas.

[Trequartista20]

Wow! Some... interesting views there.

Even if Qatar is your dream location for a winter World Cup, why does the 2022 have to be played in the wintertime at all? Most would have that as a bad idea.

[irishfan86]

“Winter” is a relative term. This is the World Cup, not the Euro-Centric Soccer Invitational. If we play tournaments only in the Northern Hemisphere’s winter it is discriminatory against some parts of the world which would never be able to host the World Cup because the environment is intolerable during Europe’s summer.

I don’t like the fact Qatar was awarded the tournament for political/moral reasons but on principle any country in the world should be able to host the World Cup, and if its climate means it will be non-viable in a European summer, then European winter-based leagues will have to adjust.

[elatedscum]

All much of a muchness with bribery and construction worker exploitation, but I'd argue SA and Brazil come out much worse in other areas.

All the major human rights organisations would disagree with your thoughts there.



Even if Qatar is your dream location for a winter World Cup, why does the 2022 have to be played in the wintertime at all? Most would have that as a bad idea.

They got the tournament by saying it would be a summer tournament and the stadiums would have air conditioned eco systems within and around the stadium. Then within days of being awarded the tournament, there were already murmurs from within UEFA and FIFA that it would have to be moved to a winter tournament “to protect fans”. I think Platini was the first to mention it, long before we knew the extent to which Platini was in bed with Qataris.

UEFA and FIFA are just a combined cesspit of corruption and greed. When John Delaney is one of the more honest men in the room, you’re really struggling.


“Winter” is a relative term. This is the World Cup, not the Euro-Centric Soccer Invitational. If we play tournaments only in the Northern Hemisphere’s winter it is discriminatory against some parts of the world which would never be able to host the World Cup because the environment is intolerable during Europe’s summer.

I don’t like the fact Qatar was awarded the tournament for political/moral reasons but on principle any country in the world should be able to host the World Cup, and if its climate means it will be non-viable in a European summer, then European winter-based leagues will have to adjust.

The World Cup has been held in Europe, South America, North America, Asia and Africa during May-July. The Copa America, Gold Cup, African Cup of Nations are held during our summer. The Asia cup has been held in our summer, autumn and winter and the next one will be held in China in June 2023.


European winter-based leagues will have to adjust.

I don’t think it’s just Europe. For every Brazil, there’s an Argentina.


but on principle any country in the world should be able to host the World Cup

Kinda... but there’s all sorts of factors that would make Germany a more suitable host than Ireland or Qatar (which is just a little bigger than Cork. Climate can be one factor. I think given Ireland is an island, given its size, the dispersal of the population - I’d accept that I’ll never see us host a World Cup during my life time.

Imagine building 8 stadia within Cork and Kerry (larger than Qatar). You’ve got to look at the safety of fans, the existing infrastructure of the country, the legacy of the World Cup, the size of the country, the human rights record of the country and how the stadia will be built. There’s a small minority of countries in the world who are either too hot in the northern hemisphere during May, June, July and August or in the Southern Hemisphere too cold during those months. If you believed that there was a country that was ideal in every way, except climate, I could see a reason for a World Cup, but the fact it’s in winter should be a factor in the proposal and voting process.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Thought it would be interesting to note, I watched the qualifier between Qatar and Bangladesh a few weeks ago (AFC qualifying doubles as qualifying for the AFC Cup, hence Qatar's involvement). 20% capacity in the Doha stadium, and the place only ever got loud whenever Bangladesh was on the ball: it seemed like most of those present were from the 400'000 estimated Bangladeshis resident in Qatar. I'm sure they will pack them out with Qataris in 2022, but the appetite doesn't appear to be there for every game from the citizen locals.

[pineapple stu]

Was a similar story for the major athletics event they hosted - was it last year? Place was empty except for one day when I think they just rounded people up and told them to attend (for free)

It could be a disaster of a World Cup if international fans either boycott or find it's too hard to get to/too awkward to get to/too restrictive in terms of alcohol.

[seanfhear]

Free Beer ~ ~ Then it would not be illegal to buy it !

[NeverFeltBetter]

Was a similar story for the major athletics event they hosted - was it last year? Place was empty except for one day when I think they just rounded people up and told them to attend (for free)

It could be a disaster of a World Cup if international fans either boycott or find it's too hard to get to/too awkward to get to/too restrictive in terms of alcohol.

There's been various shades of boycott talk since it was awarded to Qatar, but would fans really stay away? Obviously some would/will, but given the usual demand for tickets - notwithstanding the smaller nations that always struggle to fill their allocation - it would take a lot for such a boycott to have an impact. And they could always pack the stadiums with free ticketholders and eat the cost. They can afford to.

[elatedscum]

it seemed like most of those present were from the 400'000 estimated Bangladeshis resident in Qatar. I'm sure they will pack them out with Qataris in 2022, but the appetite doesn't appear to be there for every game from the citizen locals.

Aren't there only 327,000 Qataris living in Qatar?

[pineapple stu]

Yep - 12% of the population is Qatari. There are more Nepalese in Qatar than Qatari. Also, the population is 75% male. The population 120 years ago was under 10,000, and 20 years ago it was 600,000; now it's 2,800,000. (All lifted from wiki)

Weird country. You wonder what makes it Qatari at all.

[John83]

Yep - 12% of the population is Qatari. There are more Nepalese in Qatar than Qatari. Also, the population is 75% male. The population 120 years ago was under 10,000, and 20 years ago it was 600,000; now it's 2,800,000. (All lifted from wiki)

Weird country. You wonder what makes it Qatari at all.
I am reminded of the definition of a language as a dialect with a navy.

[seanfhear]

Yep - 12% of the population is Qatari. There are more Nepalese in Qatar than Qatari. Also, the population is 75% male. The population 120 years ago was under 10,000, and 20 years ago it was 600,000; now it's 2,800,000. (All lifted from wiki)

Weird country. You wonder what makes it Qatari at all.
Oil , Money !

[EalingGreen]

Free Beer ~ ~ Then it would not be illegal to buy it !

https://img.memecdn.com/free-beer_o_1555101.webp

[seanfhear]

https://img.memecdn.com/free-beer_o_1555101.webp
Sorry, I am just getting a ? in a blue box in a white box from your post ~ ~ My computer is not reading it.

[EalingGreen]

Sorry, I am just getting a ? in a blue box in a white box from your post ~ ~ My computer is not reading it.
Tbf, you're not missing much.

Try clicking on this: https://img.memecdn.com/free-beer_o_1555101.webp

[seanfhear]

Tbf, you're not missing much.

Try clicking on this: https://img.memecdn.com/free-beer_o_1555101.webp
That is more spilt beer ! !

[nigel-harps1954]

The World Cup has been held in Europe, South America, North America, Asia and Africa during May-July. The Copa America, Gold Cup, African Cup of Nations are held during our summer. The Asia cup has been held in our summer, autumn and winter and the next one will be held in China in June 2023.



In fairness, AFCON is usually held in January. The 2019 event was the first one ever held during the Northern Hemisphere summer. 2021 AFCON is due to be held again Jan-Feb 2022.

[pineapple stu]

The road to Qatar is back on in CONCACAF and Asia so. St Lucia have withdrawn for reasons that aren't clear yet, but may be covid related. Three LoI connections were Sonni Nattestad, who gave the Faroes the lead in Austria, Raivis Jurkovskis, who played for Latvia as they lost to Holland and Montenegro, and Kaleem Simon, ex UCD, Bohs, Longford and Wexford, who came on as a sub after 20 minutes for his international debut for Montserrat last night; they scored a last-minute equaliser to take a highly unexpected point off El Salvador.

The South American matches were all postponed for covid, and in Africa it's African Cup of Nations qualifying, with Rovers' Roberto Lopes playing as Cape Verde beat Cameroon 3-1.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Biggest mismatch of qualifying so far played out today, Japan beating Mongolia 14-0.

The St Lucia thing is odd. Nobody told the players and the government is calling bull**** on the FA's claims they were denied permission to train.

[pineapple stu]

Three goals in injury time for Japan.

Gone are the days when the fourth officla would give a sympathy 1 minute it seems...

[NeverFeltBetter]

Reading around on Saint Lucia, just because I love the ridiculous drama you often find with footballing minnows, their FA head is claiming they simply couldn't afford to play the games, having come close to insolvency playing the CONCACAF Nations League over the last few years. Seems a bit strange, as smaller Caribbean dots are playing the games, after the Nations League, without problems.

[pineapple stu]

Germany 1-2 North Macedonia

Wow. Was not expecting that.

Armenia top that group with three wins from three.

[NeverFeltBetter]

North Korea have apparently said they won't travel to South Korea to play their remaining World Cup qualifiers. From news reports it seems FIFA and the AFC are hoping they'll reconsider. If the remaining games are all just allotted as 3-0 walkovers, it will presumably have a major impact on who progresses, in regards the best runner-ups. The very unlikely team of Turkmenistan stand to benefit pretty significantly.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Biggest mismatch of qualifying so far played out today, Japan beating Mongolia 14-0.



And they just put ten without reply past Myanmar.

[pineapple stu]

Guatemala were knocked out by Curacao on goals scored this week - possibly the first team ever to be knocked out of qualifying without conceding a goal.

Curacao are managed by Guus Hiddink, but Patrick Kluivert stepped in as interim manager this month as Hiddink was recovering from covid.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Curacao are an interesting little country, a real Caribbean speck able to punch above their weight largely on the back of a colonial connection to Dutch players. They made great strides recently under a guy named Remko Bicentini, who was unceremoniously sacked and replaced by Hiddink late last year, after Bicentini had reached out to Hiddink seeking to put in him in a mentor role. He took the Curacao FA to court and got a settlement, and potentially might be due a huge payday if Curacao were able to get to Qatar (they were quarter-finalists in the most recent Gold Cup, where the ran the US close, so it's not that inconceivable).

One of the other big stories I have read coming out of that part of qualifying is Trinidad and Tobago crashing out after failing to score against the Bahamas, who are much better known for beach football and whose top goalscorer in their entire history has a total of 10. St Kitts and Nevin progressed out of that group, whose most notable player is probably Romaine Sayers, who just got relegated with West Brom.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Significant surprise in AFC the other day: 79th ranked Oman beat 24th ranked (highest in Asia) Japan with a last minute goal, away. All those Irish friendlies finally paying off, clearly.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Germany the first non-host country to qualify last night. I read they've lost just three qualification games in 101 since their first over 90 years ago. That's an impressive machine. Flick has them doing well, but perhaps a bit too soon to consider them as a favourite? Still a year to go mind.

[pineapple stu]

Yep - all three at home too, including one in this campaign against North Macedonia. Northern Ireland and Portugal the others to beat them.

First to qualify is a bit random as it involves getting a bit lucky with a crap second seed (Romania in this case, who haven't done great but who have two easy games to go and are probably still favourites for second)

Their two games this time we a bit ropey - 1-0 down at home against Romania and 0-0 away against North Macedonia at half-time - but they came back strongly in the second half each time. They should make the knock-outs anyway. After that, who knows?

[NeverFeltBetter]

Brazil the first CONMEBOL side through, which is hardly a surprise I suppose. But very impressive form, dropping points just once in 12 games, and confirming a place having played one game less than everyone else, bar Argentina. They're on 34 points with six to play, record for that single group format is 43 (Argentina for 2002). No-one's ever topped it unbeaten.

I know Brazil have been iffy in tournaments lately, but they're doing something right at this point anyway.

[pineapple stu]

Starting to get to the time when you start looking for the tournament debutants - there's never been a World Cup where a country didn't make its debut, and of course we already have one this time in the hosts, Qatar.

North Macedonia just need to beat Iceland at home to make the playoffs in UEFA, which would be a great feat for them. Though of course with two rounds to get through this time, the odds are still strongly against them.

In Africa, Benin need to avoid defeat away to DR Congo (the former Zaire, who qualified in 1974) to reach the African playoffs, while Mali have reached that stage. Burkina Faso and Cape Verde islands could also reach that stage if they win both their last two games, including the top seeds (Algeria, Nigeria) away from home.

Looks like slim pickings elsewhere though. Lebanon are in the Asian playoff spot with five points from five games, but that's bad enough that they're likely to lose the first playoff (against Japan as things stand), let alone the one against the South American side. The two American qualifications feature one non-qualifier between them in Venezuela, and they're bottom of their group.

That then leaves Oceania - which hasn't even started yet. They've cancelled a number of times, and now plan to run the whole thing next March in Qatar. Given New Zealand have qualified before though, you imagine a tournament debut is unlikely here.

[pineapple stu]

Italy into the playoffs after a 0-0 draw in Belfast. Portugal and Russia two other big names there. Sweden and Poland with some big players too.

The planned 48-team World Cup would give UEFA three extra slots. You wonder if having teams like Italy and Holland (last time) missing out entirely would lead them to reconsider that split

[NeverFeltBetter]

14 teams qualified now, the Dutch the last group winner confirmed in UEFA last night.

Argentina through, Ecuador likely to join them, after that it's crazy tight in CONMEBOL for the last automatic spot and the Intercontinentals with four points separating fourth and ninth, any two of those six sides could realistically get them with four games to play.

Canada looking like a good shout to get to their first Finals since 1986 after beating Mexico last night, they top CONCACAF with six games to play.

CAF's process remarkably straightforward: all ten top seeds in the Second Round group stage have progressed to the play-offs as of last night.

[Bielsa´s irish]

Hi . Russia has been kicked out of world cup since the Ukraine invasion following reckless attack. In my country we were discussing how many countries could be banned if this policy applies accurately?

Now England FA confirms England will not play Russia at any level for 'foreseeable future' after invasion of Ukraine - Eurosport (https://www.eurosport.com/football/world-cup/2022/fa-confirms-england-will-not-play-russia-at-any-level-for-foreseeable-future-after-invasion-of-ukrai_sto8821127/story.shtml) refuses to play against those fellows. Isnt it hipocrecy the same England nation we are talking about ? Just curious of your irish point of view.

We here in Argentina, we all condemn the belligerent and aggressive actions against a sovereign and republican nation above all things, respect above all, and as Jean-Jacques Rousseau "the générale volonté" the higher law.

[John83]

Hi . Russia has been kicked out of world cup since the Ukraine invasion following reckless attack. In my country we were discussing how many countries could be banned if this policy applies accurately?

Now England FA confirms England will not play Russia at any level for 'foreseeable future' after invasion of Ukraine - Eurosport (https://www.eurosport.com/football/world-cup/2022/fa-confirms-england-will-not-play-russia-at-any-level-for-foreseeable-future-after-invasion-of-ukrai_sto8821127/story.shtml) refuses to play against those fellows. Isnt it hipocrecy the same England nation we are talking about ? Just curious of your irish point of view.

We here in Argentina, we all condemn the belligerent and aggressive actions against a sovereign and republican nation above all things, respect above all, and as Jean-Jacques Rousseau "the générale volonté" the higher law.
Just so. When are we banning the Argentinians for attempting to seize the Falklands?

[Bielsa´s irish]

Just so. When are we banning the Argentinians for attempting to seize the Falklands?

yes sadly thats how is gonna end up you are correct. We have more chances to get the ban than those colonialists countries

[sidewayspasser]

If you ban any country that's ever invaded foreign territory, there wouldn't be many left, certainly not in Europe.

[pineapple stu]

We invaded Scotland in the seventh century, didn't we?

[Bielsa´s irish]

If you ban any country that's ever invaded foreign territory, there wouldn't be many left, certainly not in Europe.
Yeah that's the matter about it. We are all against war and Russia invasion is just dumb even more so ever after the global pandemic of two years in a row, then more trouble and suffering it's just plain Dumb.
Ditto this double standard in football is just hypocritical.

Ban these guys, but not those.

[NeverFeltBetter]

I note that the draw is apparently meant to be on April 1st, does anyone have an idea of how that will work with the final qualifiers from the Intercontinentals in June? There's potential for quite a difference in seeding really. Just taking things as they stand now, your IC playoffs would hypothetically be (rankings in brackets):

Australia (37) vs Uruguay (16)
Panama (63) vs New Zealand (111)

There's a big difference between some of those numbers, will IC qualifiers just be bottom seeded automatically? I suppose it only really matters for someone like Uruguay, who would be in with a small shout of being a second seed in normal circumstances, or if not that they would be third, the rest would be 4th seeds anyway. The highest ranked side who could still end up in this route is 12th placed Mexico.

[pineapple stu]

They're going to have a similar problem with the UEFA play-offs - looks like they may try Ukraine v Wales in June (which will hit our Nations League games), so at the moment you have one place being Scotland/Ukraine/Wales/Austria (40/27/20/30). (I'm assuming Russia won't be reinstated despite their CAS appeal)

Smaller gaps between the rankings though in fairness, so yeah, it's not quite the same as Uruguay/New Zealand.

[NeverFeltBetter]

The OFC qualifiers start tomorrow after a really lengthy delay in their whole process, and three withdrawals (Samoa and American Samoa because of COVID, Tonga because of the eruption). All being played in what I assume are going to be empty stadiums in Qatar. All games streamed for free at reasonable kick-off times if anyone is interested in a very different kind of international football: https://www.oceaniafootball.com/how-to-watch-the-fifa-world-cup-qatar-2022-oceania-qualifiers/

It's a fascinating world that I've followed since Next Goal Wins. Just for the dichotomy of tiny footballing nations in a vast geographical area, who usually play in pitches that wouldn't be out of place in LSL in front of just hundreds, if that. But still countries, some of whom go years without senior football. I'd love to see an Intercontinental play-off between a side like Panama against the Solomon Islands, just for the sheer uniqueness of it.

[John83]

I just want to second that endorsement of Next Goal Wins. It's an enjoyable documentary following the fortunes of one such island nation. One unusual feature is that one of the team was quite effeminate and identified as third gender which is traditionally recognised in that culture; however, it's not the focus of the film.

[NeverFeltBetter]

I note that the draw is apparently meant to be on April 1st, does anyone have an idea of how that will work with the final qualifiers from the Intercontinentals in June? There's potential for quite a difference in seeding really. Just taking things as they stand now, your IC playoffs would hypothetically be (rankings in brackets):

Australia (37) vs Uruguay (16)
Panama (63) vs New Zealand (111)

There's a big difference between some of those numbers, will IC qualifiers just be bottom seeded automatically? I suppose it only really matters for someone like Uruguay, who would be in with a small shout of being a second seed in normal circumstances, or if not that they would be third, the rest would be 4th seeds anyway. The highest ranked side who could still end up in this route is 12th placed Mexico.

The answer is in, and all three teams that end up qualifying in June will be drawn in a week as fourth seeds: https://www.espn.com/soccer/fifa-world-cup/story/4623460/world-cup-draw-seedings-skewed-by-russias-war-with-ukrainecovid-19-pandemic

As stated before, there's a chance of fairly high ranking sides like Uruguay and Mexico getting messed about because of this. Worse perhaps, teams like Wales who could have expected to be third seeds will be fourth seeds if they qualify for reasons completely out of their control.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Italy have failed to qualify for the World Cup again. Quite the turnaround in nine months. Should Portugal feel relieved, given North Macedonia held out from over 30+ attempts on goal tonight?

[pineapple stu]

That's amazing.

North Macedonia record the probably unique feat of winning away to Germany and Italy in the same qualifying campaign.

Meanwhile Italy have won just one finals match since winning the World Cup in 2006 (the Zidane headbutt match). And that was against England in 2014

[seanfhear]

Italy have failed to qualify for the World Cup again. Quite the turnaround in nine months. Should Portugal feel relieved, given North Macedonia held out from over 30+ attempts on goal tonight?
FIFA will be horrified if North Macedonia knock out Portugal as well ( probably unlikely )

I am surprised that these games are not played over two legs to help the “ more powerful football countries " ( with big populations for better financial opportunities )

[NeverFeltBetter]

Canada made it last night, topping CONCACAF qualification. They look like a very impressive team relative to the region, I watched the second half of their game against Costa Rica the other day where they bossed the game despite having a man sent off for a stupid bit of play acting from the opposition and a very hostile crowd. They lost 1-0, but looked very good in defeat. I wouldn't say they'll be turning up just to be there in November.

[tetsujin1979]

this is the ball being used at the tournament
1509108352323928067