2022 FIFA World Cup

[pineapple stu]

Mali, North Macedonia and the Solomon Islands were all knocked out in the last 24 hours.

Means for the first time ever that no debutant country will reach the finals through qualifying. (Qatar are the only debutants, but they're hosts of course)

Finland, Venezuela and North Macedonia are the only countries in the top 50 (per Eloratings.net (https://eloratings.net/)) never to make a World Cup.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Seedings are in: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_FIFA_World_Cup#Draw_and_schedule

Your potential group of death on paper is Brazil (who just went top of the rankings for the first time in 12 years), Mexico, Senegal and Wales.

[pineapple stu]

The draw is underway now.

Spain/Germany in group E

Belgium/Croatia in F

France/Denmark in D is tasty too.

England will be delighted with USA by comparison...

[pineapple stu]

So it's -

Qatar
Ecuador
Senegal
Holland


England
Iran
USA
Wales/Scotland/Ukraine


Argentina
Saudi Arabia
Mexico
Poland


France
Peru/Australia/UAE
Denmark (the 2018 group was France/Denmark/Peru/Australia)
Tunisia


Spain
Costa Rica/New Zealand
Germany
Japan


Belgium
Canada
Morocco
Croatia


Brazil
Serbia
Switzerland (they were all in the same group in 2018 as well)
Cameroon


Portugal
Ghana
Uruguay
South Korea

[pineapple stu]

England have gotten a nice easy one on the face of it. USA v Iran will hopefully lead to a bit of a reshowing of the classic encounter from 1998; one of my favourite World Cup games.

But Germany v Spain jumps out straight away. Costa Rica (if they get through) aren't entirely pushovers and Germany can be upset (like 2018)

And Belgium v Croatia is two semi-finallists from last time - but Croatia aren't the team they were. Could Canada do a job on them? They seem to have come on in leaps and bounds.

France v Denmark is another big tie for the group stages.

[Bielsa´s irish]

So it's -

Qatar
Ecuador
Senegal
Holland


England
Iran
USA
Wales/Scotland/Ukraine


Argentina
Saudi Arabia
Mexico
Poland


France
Peru/Australia/UAE
Denmark (the 2018 group was France/Denmark/Peru/Australia)
Tunisia


Spain
Costa Rica/New Zealand
Germany
Japan


Belgium
Canada
Morocco
Croatia


Brazil
Serbia
Switzerland (they were all in the same group in 2018 as well)
Cameroon


Portugal
Ghana
Uruguay
South Korea


We should win it in memoir of Maradona. Easy group for ourselves, I hope you boys in green cheer for us, tomorrow 40 years of the war in Malvinas

[NeverFeltBetter]

The last few weeks of World Cup qualifying starts tonight, with Scotland hosting Ukraine. Will be fascinating to see how that one works out, it's impossible to know how well Ukraine will be able to focus on their business. Channelling the kind of emotions they must have been going through over the last few months into a good sporting performance is no easy task. And then they might have to go and do it all again in Cardiff. Maybe because of that I'd still favour Wales.

Given how poor Australia have been recently you'd have to imagine the UAE has a shot, especially in a once-off, but I wouldn't say either team would be much trouble for Peru.

Looking forward to Costa Rica and New Zealand. The single game format and neutral location really gives the OFC side a better chance, and Costa Rica were really poor in the last game I saw them in, when they only just about beat 10-man Canada.

[NeverFeltBetter]

I was giving the story a wide berth because from a cursory reading it seemed like a storm in a teacup and Ecuadorian statements on the matter didn't sound like they were worried, but a few news outlets this morning are reporting that Ecuador are going to get thrown out of the World Cup at a hearing tomorrow for playing an ineligible player, Byron Castillo, in a number of matches. It's hard to know how concrete it is, going down the rabbit hole brings you to a Mexican news channel that might have jumped the gun in terms of claiming access to a "leaked" FIFA conclusion.

If it is true nominally all the games where Ecuador played Castillo would be awarded as 3-0 losses. From my reading, that would put Chile, who made the complaint, up to 4th in the CONMEBOL standings and give them automatic qualification (Peru, 5th and playing Australia on Monday in a play-off, wouldn't be effected). There have also been claims that FIFA could turn around and award the place to the highest ranked non-qualifying team - Italy - but I suspect that's just outrage-bait. Presumably Ecuador would appeal a negative ruling all the way to CAS too. Their own court system ruled Castillo an Ecuadorian by birth.

Edit: FIFA rejects Chile's complaint, so Ecuador are headed to the World Cup: https://www.fifa.com/legal/media-releases/fifa-disciplinary-committee-passes-decision-on-eligibility-of-byron-david-castillo-segura

Chile have the right to appeal of course, but I suspect it's pointless.

[pineapple stu]

So the tournament starts this month. Bit of a quiet build-up I think (on the pitch at least), presumably not helped by it being mid-season. And obviously it's overshadowed by off-field issues - as previous World Cups have been too. (Thinking the local protests in 2014 that the government would spend billions on the World Cup when local services were in dire straits). John McManus - who wrote a good book on Turkish football a couple of years back - has a new book out on Qatar in general (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/60616239-inside-qatar?from_search=true&from_srp=true&qid=pAfGCzYLDu&rank=1) which I'll be getting a copy of in due course I think. The Ugly Game (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/30142733-the-ugly-game) is another good read on the bidding process and how the Sunday Times uncovered what was going on.

Ukraine have called for Iran to be kicked out, but I can't see that happening - where do you stop if you do that? Do you expel Saudi Arabia for air strikes in Yemen for example? Or the US and England for supporting those strikes?

On the pitch, Ecuador are still in (see previous post) and will open the tournament against hosts Qatar. It's a low key opener but it could actually be quite interesting because of that. I expect Qatar to be about as weak a team as the World Cup has ever seen given how they played against us. (I don't actually begrudge them being hosts despite their football ability, though there's obviously plenty of other reasons why they shouldn't be hosting). That one is at 4pm our time on Sunday 20th, and when we get into the four-game-a-day bit, games are 10am, 1pm, 4pm and 7pm. So with working from home now, you can imagine there'll be drop-offs in productivity!

Hard to look beyond the usual suspects really. England's Nations League form will be a concern and if they don't get to the quarters, Southgate could well be sacked - he doesn't play nice football and that's much easier to turn against when results go bad. Ronaldo, Messi and Lewandowski probably at their last finals tournament but think they're past the stage where they can carry the entire team. Kante is a big loss for France (Pogba arguably less so) Belgium's golden generation has maybe peaked? Spain might be a good bet for the title.

Final squads all to be submitted by the end of the week.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Brazil? They've been quite good for the last few years, albeit without having played much European opposition. Southgate's gone unless he actually wins the thing I think, there are more than enough knives at the ready. For teams like Germany and Spain it feels like one tournament too early, for France and Belgium one tournament too late. Argentina are probably as good as they have been since 2014, but you suspect they won't match up well to non-South American opposition. The Dutch might surprise people, but not all the way to a win. There's certainly scope for a surprise run: maybe Portugal, they seem to have a decent team ethic? Ecuador were great during the first half of qualifying. Senegal look a good package, but not sure how they rate outside of CAF. I suppose if going on recent form you have to consider Denmark.

Qatar I don't know what to make of. Part of me still thinks they could so far better than some are expecting, just because of hosts luck and the sheer amount of prep they've had, but then again anytime I've actually sat down and watched them they've looked terrible,

[NeverFeltBetter]

The Guardian does its part for World Cup obsessives everywhere by doing a brief write-up on every single player in the tournament: https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2022/nov/16/world-cup-2022-player-profiles-qatar-match-ratings

[pineapple stu]

Two days from the opening game, and the sale of beer has been banned at grounds (https://www.rte.ie/news/2022/1118/1336889-world-cup-beer/)...

That's a hell of an influential pull to outdo Budweiser here.

[seanfhear]

Football sold its Soul giving the World Cup to Qatar and Russian was nearly as bad before that ! !

30 Pieces of Silver for Football’s Soul ! !

[John83]

Budweiser execs will be foaming at the mouth.

[NeverFeltBetter]

That's a lot of money Budweiser will presumably now insist they don't have to pay FIFA. Is Qatar going to make that up? God knows they've spent astronomical money on everything so far, what's another 75 million?

[passinginterest]

Budweiser presumably getting a massive payout and of course a heap of publicity to compensate then for the trauma.

[seanfhear]

Budweiser execs will be foaming at the mouth.
That scene from Lawrence of Arabia comes to mind when Lawrence and his companion find the pub after being in the desert for god knows how long ! ! !

[pineapple stu]

Budweiser presumably getting a massive payout and of course a heap of publicity to compensate then for the trauma.
You would have thought selling Bud at the World Cup would have reinforced Muslim views on banning beer.

[seanfhear]

A Thirst.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3NfOGvhpxc

[seanfhear]

And for the lemonade drinkers.

From 1 minute 48 seconds if you are short of time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9YXuvLfECk

[pineapple stu]

Marca are reporting (https://www.marca.com/en/world-cup/2022/11/18/6376cfc7ca4741cc208b4573.html) that several Ecuador players have been offered millions in bribes to lose the opener against Qatar...

Will be very interesting to see what sort of crowd there is for that match. The ground holds 60k, but the 2019 World Athletics Championships (also held in Qatar) had really poor crowds.

[joey B]

Marca are reporting (https://www.marca.com/en/world-cup/2022/11/18/6376cfc7ca4741cc208b4573.html) that several Ecuador players have been offered millions in bribes to lose the opener against Qatar...

Will be very interesting to see what sort of crowd there is for that match. The ground holds 60k, but the 2019 World Athletics Championships (also held in Qatar) had really poor crowds.

That story seems to have come from one unreliable source and spread,the thread in the link below shows how these can gain traction with little proof…..


https://mobile.twitter.com/marcowenjones/status/1593302904554807296

[pineapple stu]

Interesting. I had presumed Marca was a vaguely reliable source...

[joey B]

The source is based in Bahrain which wouldn’t be the best of friends with Qatar,his Twitter page seems to be dedicated solely to discrediting anything to do with the World Cup,which is fair enough but I wouldn’t trust him as a source for this story….

[D24Saint]

Two days from the opening game, and the sale of beer has been banned at grounds (https://www.rte.ie/news/2022/1118/1336889-world-cup-beer/)...

That's a hell of an influential pull to outdo Budweiser here.

Wild clydesdales wouldnt drag me to that World Cup without Budweiser.

[NeverFeltBetter]

It's hard to find sports reporting sites these days that have the kind of integrity to prevent that kind of reporting (as in, basing sensational headlines off the tweet of some rando). They don't make money otherwise.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Dreadful World Cup opener, the worst since I was old enough to appreciate a Finals. Disappointed that the Asian Champions looked so woeful, without a shot on target and looking like deer in the headlights throughout. Most interesting thing about the game was that weird VAR call at the start, where Qatar were saved by their goalies incompetence. Ecuador looked good, but who wouldn't?

Amazing seeing the empty seats after half time. Most Qataris either don't care or don't want to be associated with failure. Just a sad spectacle throughout.

[pineapple stu]

Interesting that the attendance was announced as 67,372, but the official capacity of the ground was only 60k! Though I see it held 63k at the Arab Games in December.

The cynic in me reckons a lot of free tickets were given out to ensure a full house for the hosts on opening night, but at 2-0 down - and completely out of their depth - it was easy to leave.

I suspect there's going to be Euro 96-levels of empty seats at some games.

[pineapple stu]

Just the 14 minutes' injury time at the end of the first half of England v Iran. England 3-0 up and looking decent. Iran's sub keeper in nets after a clash of heads saw the first choice taken off

[Stuttgart88]

Not sure the first choice keeper would have made any difference!

[NeverFeltBetter]

I can't be the only one who thought the Iranian keeper had broken his nose, right?

England cruising along. The AFC is having a shocker in 2022.

[pineapple stu]

Not sure the first choice keeper would have made any difference!
True in fairness; three very nice finishes

[NeverFeltBetter]

Just the 23'000 empty seats for this one, according to FIFA.

[pineapple stu]

And Iran's fairly close by; you'd imagine they'd have a bit of a travelling support. Going to see some bigger gaps in coming games I reckon.

[seanfhear]

What a place to have a world cup ~ ~ ~ Fifa sold their soul and the soul of football ~ ~ Multiple times.

[NeverFeltBetter]

And Iran's fairly close by; you'd imagine they'd have a bit of a travelling support. Going to see some bigger gaps in coming games I reckon.

Maybe travel isn't safe for Iranians at the moment. Any dealings with any kind of border control going in and going out, must be a headache.

The Guardian is reporting that Iranian state TV cut the feed when the players were shown not singing the anthem, while jeers rang out from the stands from Iranians in attendance (a lot of them might be ex-pats maybe?).

Facile game for England in the end, with nearly half an hour of injury time.

[nigel-harps1954]

One of the longest 90 minute games of football ever? 118 minutes in the end in total.

[pineapple stu]

What happened in the second half for all the extra time? I saw England made four subs at the same time, so it obviously wasn't lots of breaks for subs.

[NeverFeltBetter]

A few injury breaks too. Kane was down for a few minutes before continuing.

[SkStu]

Watching Wales almost as bad as watching us recently.

[pineapple stu]

Couple of halftime subs and Wales much better now second half.

So that's not at all like watching us recently :)

[SkStu]

They were dire in the first half! A bit better now alright.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Good game last night, had that kind of frantic feeling where both sides were desperate to win but also scared of making a mistake so it was just nerves all over the field. The timekeeping issue is interesting: it seems like refs have been instructed to start their injury time clock the moment someone goes down and to add it all on. Which, if it is the case, I fully agree with, because that timewasting tactic is so irritating.

Surprisingly decent game unfolding right now, with the Saudis actually trying to give Argentina a game, but only in it because Argentina need to time their runs a fraction of a second better.

[joey B]

Some egg laid by Argentina here….

[pineapple stu]

How do Argentina do that so regularly?

All over the Saudis for the bits I saw, but the Saudis had two shots and scored both of them, and now it's panic stations for the Argies just to get out of the group. Mexico and Poland next - both winnable, but now both must-wins too, which isn't ideal.

[seanfhear]

How do Argentina do that so regularly?

All over the Saudis for the bits I saw, but the Saudis had two shots and scored both of them, and now it's panic stations for the Argies just to get out of the group. Mexico and Poland next - both winnable, but now both must-wins too, which isn't ideal.
For some reason Argentina does not produce many tall athletic players ~ ~ OK Messi is tiny but he is the exception that proves the rule. Argentina need to become a lot more athletic and of course that generally means taller as well ~ ~ I suggest a breeding programme.

[pineapple stu]

The Saudi win is statistically the biggest shock in World Cup history, ousting USA v England 1950 (https://www.rte.ie/sport/world-cup-2022/2022/1122/1337639-saudi-victory-the-biggest-shock-in-world-cup-history/).

Wow

[joey B]

Mexico/Poland is grim!

[pineapple stu]

France a joy to watch since going behind early on against Australia.

Or terrifying to watch, if your next competitive game is against them...

[joey B]

An SPL back 4 with a Celtic reserve DM is getting the treatment you’d expect!