2022 FIFA World Cup

[seanfhear]

If I could pick one manager I would pick Carlo Ancelotti ~ ~ Not saying that he would have any interest in the England job mind.

The thing about Ancelotti is that he can do the toughest of jobs with so little fuss ~ ~ So used to doing big pressure jobs in Italy / elsewhere and just handles it all with out a fuss.

[joey B]

The sourest of grapes from Pepe, the ref was pretty good in that game I thought....

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[ifk101]

Pepe missed a sitter at the end of their game. Maybe he wants to deflect from that. :-)

[NeverFeltBetter]

I did think refs left a lot go yesterday in both games. Maybe a reaction to the Argentina/Dutch game?

[seanfhear]

I did think refs left a lot go yesterday in both games. Maybe a reaction to the Argentina/Dutch game?
No harm either but I suppose ya need consistency and pretty much know what standards to expect from referees in such big matches.

[Stuttgart88]

I did think refs left a lot go yesterday in both games. All tournament I think.

I'm surprised Saka went off but overall I think England did more or less what they needed to do to win, but they just didn't win! Kane's one on one miss v Lloris in the first half was also poor by his standards. On replay it looked easier to take the ball with the inside of his left rather than the outside of his right. Had he done so he'd have got the lift needed to take it over Lloris. Gilt-edged Maguire chance from a free header, and he actually should also have scored after Lloris missed a cross - there was a big gap at the near post but he headed it back across goal. Second penalty...

I think Pickford was slow to read the curve on the first goal. I don't actually think he did see it late as Bellingham wasn't really in the way of seeing the ball. I think his dive was that of a keeper expecting the ball to be a few inches nearer to him. Griezmann's cross was magnificent but did Stones get caught under the ball again, like against Croatia?

Quite simply France won the big moments, including not being awarded a free just before France's first. Giroud had 2 good chances, took one (I'm not counting the low header at 0-0 as it was a poor cross), Kane had 3 and took one.

Jonathan Liew had a great article in today's Observer (https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2022/dec/11/france-overcame-england-because-champion-teams-win-the-big-moments) about this. France had big game / win tough know how, England didn't. If Kane's pen had gone in the momentum and belief was surely all theirs. It'd have taken some grit for France to steady the ship.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Wahl also said himself he was feeling very unwell on Monday and highly stressed after a cold he's had for weeks had become bronchitis. Without intending distress to anyone its curious timing, but I don't automatically see a murderous conspiracy.

Edit: I note he was also complaining of chest pains on Monday. Get yourselves checked up on the regular lads, this stuff comes out of nowhere.

Just to round this off, the brother withdrew his claims that Wahl had been killed yesterday, saying he made them while in shock: https://twitter.com/ziplamak/status/1601831945587261440

[NeverFeltBetter]

Argentina are doing quite well so far. Saw Messi rubbing his hamstring earlier: the temptation to take him off soon enough will be quite big for Scaloni.

[osarusan]

Comfortable in the end for Argentina.

Not sure about the penalty myself, but it was the second that really killed them. Croatia did so well for 25 minutes and suddenly they are 2-0 down.

But they couldn't get a sniff of a goal all night.

[Jd2793]

pen for me . happy to see the back of croatia , sick of seeing them not win games in 120mins and sneak through on pens

[pineapple stu]

Was there a dispute over the pen?

Looked stonewall to me, but I was watching down from on a balcony while at the company Christmas party, so I wouldn't entirely trust my view!

[CraftyToePoke]

Seen em given, seen em waved away Pineappler
A real marmite of a spot kick.

[CraftyToePoke]

but I was watching down from on a balcony while at the company Christmas party, so I wouldn't entirely trust my view!

Were you absolutely fu ck eyed shkittered standing on a table holding two beverages on this balcony ?

[pineapple stu]

I certainly wouldn't rule that possibility out, crafty :)

Looked like the keeper caught him.

But as I say, looking to the soberer, trustworthier foot gang for a balanced view

[NeverFeltBetter]

Think the grumpy man trio on ITV provoked debate on the penalty, but for me he doesn't really try and play the ball and has the leg in Alvarez's path, so it's not just a case of "He's not obligated to move out of the way!". And that is something that annoys me when penalized elsewhere, when attackers intentionally bounce off of defenders that cant get past otherwise, or when obvious obstruction is ignored (like "shepherding" the ball out of play). But wasnt the case here.

Messi is up for winning this World Cup, and it doesn't feel like 2014 to me, when he seemed to be carrying the whole team.

[osarusan]

Loved watching Morocco in this world cup, and it's not blood and guts stuff, they have some players who are brilliant technically and played some silky stuff to get in behind the French defence...just missing a real finisher.

Should be a cracking final.

[pineapple stu]

Thought that was their best performance of the lot tonight. Took the game to France - mainly because they had to - and did it well. Unlucky not to equalise at some stage, and then France get a jammy second when a poor pass takes a nick and turns into a perfect pass.

Arguably answered a few of their doubters in defeat

[pineapple stu]

Off to a flyer in the third-fourth place playoff - a maligned game, but it's often a cracker. 1-1 inside 10 minutes, with a great free-kick routine giving Croatia the lead. Follows another cracker for Holland against Argentina of course, and hopefully this is a sign more creative free-kicks are on the way back.

[NeverFeltBetter]

What do we think? I'm going for a narrow Argentina win, maybe 2-1.

[pineapple stu]

They've started better anyway. Hope they do it

[joey B]

Sensational second goal from Argentina, befitting the occasion!

[NeverFeltBetter]

The greatest World Cup Final goal ever. Argentina have been outstanding, but France have been awful. They do look like a team dying of flu

[pineapple stu]

It was a bit like that 1970 goal but played at a much quicker pace and against more organised defenders

Liquid football

[pineapple stu]

Hello

What just happened here?

[NeverFeltBetter]

An absolute choke job from Argentina. Lucky to get to extra time.

[pineapple stu]

Would have been some way to win it from Messi at the death.

Argentina coach will have spent the last ten minutes talking about the Holland game

[NeverFeltBetter]

Well, this is greatest World Cup Final ever.

[pineapple stu]

You'd be gutted for Argentina if they lost this now

But what a game

[osarusan]

After the first 70 minutes or whatever where France didn't turn up, the rest has been utterly incredible. That save at the death by Martinez is unbelievable.

[pineapple stu]

Delighted for Argentina; they deserved that. Threw it away twice but still held their nerve

But what a game overall. Not only was that save one of the best in a final, but there was still time for Argentina to nearly win it the other end.

A great game to end a great World Cup

[NeverFeltBetter]

As RTE said, Argentina had to win it three times.

[SkStu]

Greatest finale of all time. Delighted for Messi!! What a joy to have witnessed that. It had everything you could ask for.

[pineapple stu]

Can only imagine Maradona's reaction if he'd been around to watch that.

Hurst's record equalled. Maradona's legacy equalled. Pele's Final impact equalled by Mbappe. A real passing of the guard. Breathless stuff

[SkStu]

Going to put it out there. It was a fantastic World Cup. It had it all really, plenty of goals (most ever), plenty of genuine upsets, a traditional minnow going deep, a finale up there as the best. Not much to argue against it as a sporting event!

[CraftyToePoke]

What a superb match.
That was why we watch, every now & again you see something like that.
Delightful for Argentina. Sh it housery & all.

[pineapple stu]

Going to put it out there. It was a fantastic World Cup. It had it all really, plenty of goals (most ever), plenty of genuine upsets, a traditional minnow going deep, a finale up there as the best. Not much to argue against it as a sporting event!

All of this - and don't forget injury-time goals changing the outcome in the groups too, more than once

[NeverFeltBetter]

Some people might feel understandably uncomfortable praising this World Cup, but on a footballing level, on an entertainment level, it was outstanding.

[Dermobohs]

All of this, I was going to ignore it and then had a thought, I watched world cups in Argentina(ruled by a murderous military junta) Brazil( murdering indigenous people and street kids)Russia( just general oppressive towards countless minorities)etc etc, and thought why the **** not?

[osarusan]

Going to put it out there. It was a fantastic World Cup. It had it all really, plenty of goals (most ever), plenty of genuine upsets, a traditional minnow going deep, a finale up there as the best. Not much to argue against it as a sporting event!

All of this, and also some incredible moments of tension and drama in the dying minutes of the simultaneous final group stage games.

A shame it was all in Qatar, but deep down, shallow ***** that I am, I truthfully don't much care where it was. I doubt I'm alone in that either.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Even the presentation was entertaining, between Martinez using the Golden Gloves as a phallus (annoying Daragh Moloney) and Messi's enforced wardrobe change.

Still don't think they should force the losing team to go through the rigmarole of a Silver presentation.

[sbgawa]

All of this, I was going to ignore it and then had a thought, I watched world cups in Argentina(ruled by a murderous military junta) Brazil( murdering indigenous people and street kids)Russia( just general oppressive towards countless minorities)etc etc, and thought why the **** not?
Exactly my feelings , the PC brigade out for this one big time but if we only play the world cup in countries with zero problems it will be a while before we have another one

[tetsujin1979]

A friend of mine who did boycott the tournament posted this on facebook after the final
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/dec/18/love-football-watching-my-job-world-cup-boycott

[seanfhear]

I wonder / ask ? ~ ~ Is one of the reasons that this was a good world cup ( football wise ) is that some of the refs at least allowed robust / physical tackling /physical contest ?

Soccer needs that physical side to it while at the same time we don’t want anybody getting injured / seriously injured ~ It’s a tricky part of the game to get right but as I say soccer does need that physical battle side to it, to make it a good watch / contest / entertainment.

[NeverFeltBetter]

There were a lot of tellings off instead of cards. Sometimes that's ok, sometimes it's not. It definitely suited Argentina, keeper Martinez went a bit mad with the gamesmanship in the shoot-out and the ref seemed to only begrudgingly give him a yellow after he wouldn't stop shouting at kickers or booting the ball away. A few Argentinian challenges in the 120 would have been reds at other World Cups too. France were no angels either - that practically kicked de Paul off the field - but that was the game the ref wanted to allow.

[TonyD]

Maybe I’m old and contrary, but I don’t think it was that great a competition overall. Yes a good final, but overall only really came to life as a contest from about 75 minutes on. The final group games had a lot of drama, sure, but there was a lack of really top class contests in the knockout rounds. Would put 82 and 86 ahead of it by a distance.

[seanfhear]

Maybe I’m old and contrary, but I don’t think it was that great a competition overall. Yes a good final, but overall only really came to life as a contest from about 75 minutes on. The final group games had a lot of drama, sure, but there was a lack of really top class contests in the knockout rounds. Would put 82 and 86 ahead of it by a distance.
Could be rose tinted glasses ~ ~ When you consider this was before the back pass to the goalkeeper was dis-allowed. The offside rule was more stringent. 2 Points for a win in the group stages.

I heard somebody saying somewhere that the 1990 world cup was a great world cup ~ ~ I reckon they must have forgotten that FIFA decided after that world cup that they had better do something to make football more entertaining ( In FIFA’s opinion there was a lot of bad games at that world cup) such as changing the rules I mentioned above.

[Stuttgart88]

That late save by Martinez has to be the greatest save of all time. Exceptionally good save in its own right with the added context that it absolutely 100% led to France not winning the WC there and then. Kolo Muani did nothing wrong, hitting it firmly and accurately. He arguably hit it too well, a shinner into the ground might well have won it.

[SkStu]

Maybe I’m old and contrary, but I don’t think it was that great a competition overall. Yes a good final, but overall only really came to life as a contest from about 75 minutes on. The final group games had a lot of drama, sure, but there was a lack of really top class contests in the knockout rounds. Would put 82 and 86 ahead of it by a distance.

86 is as far back as i can remember with any reliability and it was the tournament that first grabbed my attention and made me want to be a footballer when i grew up. Definitely a contender. I think seanfhear is generally right though. The game was totally different in that era and hit its low point in 1990!

[Stuttgart88]

1990 was a grim World Cup overall. 1978 and 1982 were good, though maybe viewed through the eyes of a kid falling in love with football.

I don't think the fact that the game was one-sided until 75 minutes took much away from its greatness. In fact it's what helped make it great. The first half saw one of the all time great WC Final goals. In my lifetime I think only 1970 may have seen a better goal in the Final. Di Maria had a great afternoon even without the goal. And Argentina weren't far away from a third at several stages in the second half, creating a few decent chances. So it was a very good final in many respects up until the first French goal. The early substitutions, the positive impact they made, the Argentina passing moves, the collapse, the late Mbappe run in normal time, the drama in ET. I thought it was an absolutely brilliant game with a lot to admire throughout.

[Jd2793]

perths analysis here is bizarre to say the least. not selling himself to any perspective clubs if this is how hes analysing the biggest game of the year. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kO9-BESMVO4&ab_channel=OffTheBall