Waterford Complaint

[sbgawa]

I'm not surprised a club like Fleetwood (their owner) are investing in Ireland, a fraction of the Fleetwood budget would be the highest budget in Ireland with a chance of playing in Europe to boot.
Also instead of paying bohs for Promise Omacherre he could have signed him (or the next fella) for Waterford and shipped him over to Fleetwood when he was ready.

If Waterford get promoted expect them to be trying to sign a lot of the young talents with a promise of a path to the UK if they play well.
I'm officially cheering for Cork and Galway now its bad enough having to deal with the Derry Galacticos next year.

[sulywaterfordfc]

Any particular reason, just beyond his financial resources or too inclined to get involved in team selection? Waterford were incredibly lucky that he was interested in buying when Power was pulling fast ones all around him (its the one thing i'd be curious about if Delaney stayied at the FAI a bit longer is whether he could have gotten around the rules on European qualification and whether it could have been preplanned with Power in advance if WFC finished top 4/won cup).

The court case is yet to be heard on Piley and his businesses so maybe not fair to call it a Power mk II but it's still a bit Waterford. The press conference will be interestinng though he will just refuse to comment on ongoing legal issues. Unpicking the stuff around Power and Swindon was quite an eyeopener but there was always chatter of messing at Swindon but havent heard anything on Fleetwood bar the already mentioned climb through the divisions, missing out on a big sell-on for Vardy when Arsenal wanted him. A case was taken by Piley in 2015 against a number of people where the ruling made was to retract comments and desist from whatever thee people were saying, not a whole lot more info on that. The current case to be heard is seemingly in a legal progress for 8 years so could be connected. Ofgem fined a couple of Piley's companies £2! + donations to charity. Current charges are serious if found guilty but additional fines would be the the outcome, they're softer on white collar crime in Engalnd and Wales than they are here. Supposedly Piley's companies are owed about €20mil by Fleetwood but assurances have been made that these wont be called in until the club can afford them, he is involved 18 years now and the wheels havent come off. The balance sheets dont look great even pre pandemic but if debts are covered than thats a positive. It doesnt seem to be a consortium with other clubs he is involved with so may be some differences on how things at Waterford will be done.

Whats a bit odd is that there isnt a whole lot on the court cases past and pending. Stuff on Piley's personal business stuff are scant eg his estimated wealth ranges from a few million to 49mil but still is a lot lower than what you'd expect from an owner of a bunch of energy related companies imo and can carry a loan of circa £20mil to a football club. The wiki page is a homage to the success at Fleetwood and successful business ventures, and all the charitable involvements, like it was written up by one of his kids. It will be an interesting period for Waterford, I have no bases for this opinion but it could be an investment that works. A potential issue is if Bircham is installed as manager and things dont go to plan what happens - I dont think there's a rule that stops a (part) owner from being a head coach if he is a member of the consortium?!

This article is fun and worth a read, not sure its a serious effort,...clueless if it is!
https://sportschunky.com/net-worth/fleetwood-town-team-net-worth/

Some links to the company registers with accounts if someone is bothered, the football club accounts may be of interest to have a look at for something of a comparison between the finances of our own league and L1/L2 in England. Bircham's registration there too.
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/03359117

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/officers/2A9L-dO2llt5Cysu1sX52vYzJuQ/appointments

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/11658634

Piley will be the sole owner of the club, there is no consortium involving Bircham.

With regards Forrest, he’s a good man and a football fan but unfortunately he lacked the experience of owning and running a football club. He wasn’t inferring with team selections, but the the decisions etc off field were the issue. Hasn’t helped there’s two people with high positions in the club have caused issues for the club remains to be seen whether they’ll be booted or not.

Of the ownership of Power, Forrest and Piley this seems like the one with the most potential.

Ideally this takeover is completed soon as if want any chance of winning the play offs we need to bring in 1/2 players as the squad is paper thin and doesn’t have a huge amount of experience either.

[sbgawa]

Piley will be the sole owner of the club, there is no consortium involving Bircham.

With regards Forrest, he’s a good man and a football fan but unfortunately he lacked the experience of owning and running a football club. He wasn’t inferring with team selections, but the the decisions etc off field were the issue. Hasn’t helped there’s two people with high positions in the club have caused issues for the club remains to be seen whether they’ll be booted or not.

Of the ownership of Power, Forrest and Piley this seems like the one with the most potential.

Ideally this takeover is completed soon as if want any chance of winning the play offs we need to bring in 1/2 players as the squad is paper thin and doesn’t have a huge amount of experience either.

You can only bring in free agents now and only up to 31st August AFAIK

[joey B]

https://waterfordfc.ie/andy-pilley-completes-blues-takeover/

Takeover completed today….

[DCSIL]

Sounds a bit Roddy Collins tbh. If Netflix followed Waterford FC around with cameras it would top that All or nothing series by a lot!

OT but found out at the weekend Roddy Collins Jnr is Captain of Chesham United.

[SPXcyan]

I'm quietly optimistic about this appointment, felt unnerved when Power took over and that eejit Forrest after him, but this lad seems to know how to run a club properly.

[Nesta99]

OT but found out at the weekend Roddy Collins Jnr is Captain of Chesham United.

Thats a bit random even for a LoI journeyman.

[Martinho II]

OT but found out at the weekend Roddy Collins Jnr is Captain of Chesham United.

What league are they in DCSIL?

[Nesta99]

What league are they in DCSIL?

Southern Football League so 7th and 8th tiers. Looking at the table the only familiar football name to me is Merthyr (Tydfil) of the old football names from BBC classified results. Non football there are some nice little spots to visit like Truro and eh the Metropolitan Police. Ive taken in non league in England plenty over the years but cant say Ive dropped to seeing games at this level I dont think. But with 84 teams in its own structures, a pyramid within a pyramid it does give some idea of just how big the football industry in England is with sides that are semi-pro at this level.

*FC United of Manchester play in the Northern equivalent if it helps guage where on the pyramid these sit.

[total hoofball]

I'm quietly optimistic about this appointment, felt unnerved when Power took over and that eejit Forrest after him, but this lad seems to know how to run a club properly.
Just don't google any search terms like Fleetwood Town and Debt and definitely not the word Fraud

[sulywaterfordfc]

Just don't google any search terms like Fleetwood Town and Debt and definitely not the word Fraud

What fraud is linked to fleetwood? It’s his energy business the claim is apparently against. Piley is also supposedly counter suing, can’t draw any conclusions till the case is done. Original poster makes a good point though, look at the work he has done with Fleetwood the last 18 years. Whereas when power took over he had history of appointing himself as manager at Swindon. The Swindon fans instantly had a lot of negative stuff to say about him, any comment I’ve seen from fleetwood fans about Piley have been hugely positive.

If the past week are anything to go by the level of professionalism off field will go up a few notches. Off field is where changes at the club really need to be made. Interestingly the fleetwood CEO has been appointed to the board at Waterford. Interesting times ahead indeed. This move seems the most likely to bring stability and professionalism to the club, because the last two ownerships were a **** show - actually things were going well under power off field until Fenton left 18 or 24 months or so into power rein.

[Longfordian]

Who is he counter suing? It's criminal charges that he's in court for. Though of course he enjoys the presumption of innocence.

[sulywaterfordfc]

Who is he counter suing? It's criminal charges that he's in court for. Though of course he enjoys the presumption of innocence.

Apparently he received a death threat and he’s suing for millions. Don’t know a whole lot to be honest. Waiting game to see how this case plays out

[Nesta99]

What fraud is linked to fleetwood? It’s his energy business the claim is apparently against. Piley is also supposedly counter suing, can’t draw any conclusions till the case is done. Original poster makes a good point though, look at the work he has done with Fleetwood the last 18 years. Whereas when power took over he had history of appointing himself as manager at Swindon. The Swindon fans instantly had a lot of negative stuff to say about him, any comment I’ve seen from fleetwood fans about Piley have been hugely positive.

If the past week are anything to go by the level of professionalism off field will go up a few notches. Off field is where changes at the club really need to be made. Interestingly the fleetwood CEO has been appointed to the board at Waterford. Interesting times ahead indeed. This move seems the most likely to bring stability and professionalism to the club, because the last two ownerships were a **** show - actually things were going well under power off field until Fenton left 18 or 24 months or so into power rein.

If that issue with underage players, coach and availability to the senior squad and whatever hornets nest has gotten a grip at Waterford around that, is dealt with it will be progress already. There isnt a direct case agasint Piley's football business, there is an insinuation of laundering through football clubs but doesnt seem to be much more than speculation otherwise id imagine it would be listed as issue on the court agenda - that the trial is due to start you'd expect the investigation to have been completed. There was a cease and desist ruling against individuals that were posting about Piley online. Doesnt specify on what for the obvious reason of not giving additional publicity to whatever was being said and it seems there is a counter suit on that. I dont think they are connected cases and that the pending stuff has been brought forward by someone like our ODCE (now the CEA and have some teeth so Delaney maybe have erred in delaying his own hearing).

[culloty82]

This is possibly a stupid question but are there are any "fit and proper person" type checks in LOI licensing? I'd have thought fraud charges might pose a problem.

They may be introduced next season, apparently:

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/business-of-sport/arid-40947113.html

[culloty82]

Jonathan Walters set to become Director of Football, with potential signings including Leigh Griffiths and Pádraig Amond:

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/soccer/arid-41034872.html.

[Burnsie]

New Waterford complaint (https://twitter.com/dlooney/status/1631351054750081028?s=20) incoming

Caulfield and Horgan taking a page out of the Bielsa manual (and ignoring every other page, naturally)

[Longfordian]

Brilliant. Pretty sure the FAI won't do anything about it though.

[2 Year Contract]

Brilliant. Pretty sure the FAI won't do anything about it though.

If the FAI have any sense they’d get Waterford to send them any CCTV footage and upload it to LOI TV as a pay per view video. I know I’d pay to see a clip of Ollie Horgan getting caught up a tree with a video camera and chased out of the area :D

[culloty82]

Reminds of me of when Jim McGuinness sent a Donegal selector up a tree in 2014 to spy on a Kerry training session before the All-Ireland ...

[SPXcyan]

Waterford FC have officially confirmed the departure of Danny Searle.. well that didn't take long.

[2 Year Contract]

Just don't google any search terms like Fleetwood Town and Debt and definitely not the word Fraud

They can’t say you didn’t warn them anyways :D

[JC_GUFC]

13-year jail term for Andy Pilley!

A lot longer than I expected - will be interesting to see what happens now - or if Waterford try to disentagle themselves from his ownership.

[pineapple stu]

Crikey - that's a huge sentence. What's brought that on?

[Nesta99]

That is a big sentence for white collar crime where the UK as Ireland are usually soft on. Waterford fans must be tearing their hair out with all the turmoil of owners, Dundalk fans woud know a litte about that!

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2023/0704/1392716-waterford-owner-pilley-sentenced-to-13-years-in-prison/

"The club would like to reiterate convictions are against individuals and not Waterford FC, or any of the businesses associated with them, and will continue to operate as normal".

I presume they mean businesses associated with Waterford, us rather than them?! Not sure thay can say that their owner is not associated with them, but that the crimes committed are not to do with with the Waterford FC part of the business portfolio. Get what they are saying just seems a rushed statement that isnt as clear as it could be.

[ger121]

Surely funding is now an issue and a return to part-time football will be one of the impacts.

[SPXcyan]

Farewell to being competitive, lovely this.

[Kiki Balboa]

You'd have to think that out of all LOI clubs, Waterford are probably the one with the most unrealised potential in the last twenty years.


Drama upon Drama with the ownership. Its ridiculous. I feel bad for them.

[sbgawa]

Surely funding is now an issue and a return to part-time football will be one of the impacts.

People run drug empires from prison so im sure Piley will be able to run waterford and Fleetwood.
Will be easier as its not ilegal.
He will need something to entertain him

[total hoofball]

What fraud is linked to fleetwood? It’s his energy business the claim is apparently against. Piley is also supposedly counter suing, can’t draw any conclusions till the case is done. Original poster makes a good point though, look at the work he has done with Fleetwood the last 18 years. Whereas when power took over he had history of appointing himself as manager at Swindon. The Swindon fans instantly had a lot of negative stuff to say about him, any comment I’ve seen from fleetwood fans about Piley have been hugely positive.

If the past week are anything to go by the level of professionalism off field will go up a few notches. Off field is where changes at the club really need to be made. Interestingly the fleetwood CEO has been appointed to the board at Waterford. Interesting times ahead indeed. This move seems the most likely to bring stability and professionalism to the club, because the last two ownerships were a **** show - actually things were going well under power off field until Fenton left 18 or 24 months or so into power rein.

Haha

https://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/news/here-is-what-the-judge-had-to-say-to-andy-pilley-and-his-co-accused-4207556

[Nesta99]

People run drug empires from prison so im sure Piley will be able to run waterford and Fleetwood.
Will be easier as its not ilegal.
He will need something to entertain him

the proceeds of the fraud could be frozen pending law suits from victims, maybe even seized by the NCA, well from Piley himself. Maybe the ownership of the companies include people who were not party to the crimes and so they themselves can trade. If assets are frozen to be disposed of does Piley have full ownership of Waterford as that will very much contradict the 'nothing to see here nature' of the clubs statement. Jurisdiction differences arent a safety net as there are plenty of examples of cooperation between CAB, NCA and other UK and Irish departments.

Fleetwoods statement as an aside: "The club would like to reiterate convictions are against individuals and not Fleetwood Town FC, or any of the businesses associated with them, and will continue to operate as normal."It added the club "remains in communication with the EFL in relation to the implications of the convictions and will now be making an application to the League in relation to a change of control".

[sbgawa]

Ah come on Nesta you are talking real facts and actual reality , I was focusing on a sound bite and preparing a water feature for reception area.

[sbgawa]

Haven't the waterford fans suffered enough prior to losing the playoff to sligo

[gufct]

Pilleys accounts will surely be frozen as there has to reparation of funds to those who were defrauded?

[Jack B]

I'm just wondering how Pats will manage to be blamed for this.

[Nesta99]

I'm just wondering how Pats will manage to be blamed for this.

Well they could trawl through (player) registrations looking for legal loopholes to overturn things first. They have a new inside man to do some dirty work for them now too!

[Guitd]

So changes made to Waterford fc board as Pilley is removed
https://www.wlrfm.com/sport/pilley-removed-from-blues-board-315015

[gufct]

Who is the owner of Waterford though. Rumour has it Piley still is .

Is Treaty fixture definitely on tomorrow as Wlrfm are the only website saying this.

[trevy]

The game v Treaty has not been rescheduled yet. That article on WLR is from 13 July so refers to the original fixture that was due to happen last Friday.
Pilley passed ownership to his family a while ago after he was convicted.

[gufct]

https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/an-owner-in-prison-and-the-son-taking-control-waterfords-battle-for-normality-still-has-distance-to-travel/a1633735255.html

[Nesta99]

Not at all on topic or football but far too good to ignore, if we moan about FAI rulebooks past or present, appealing cards, or snigger at GAA committees to appeal appeals will this is great craic altogether, Waterford like complaint mixed with GLITW and almost disappointing that its not a LoI moment...crowds soaring and LoI admin is not the laughing stock of Irish sport...im blaming covid again. It will become the viral sporting news thing if it hasnt already.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/basketball/2024/0402/1441338-0-3-seconds-of-div-1-basketball-playoff-to-be-replayed
https://www.rte.ie/sport/basketball/2024/0403/1441450-portlaoise-panthers-to-refuse-to-play-0-3-seconds/

[total hoofball]

Breaking News: Convicted fraudster who is sitting in jail cell right now for the next 13 years after scamming innocent people and companies out of millions of pounds has sold Waterford to a newly formed entity with only one 100% shareholder who wait for it is his own son

Great to see these type of above board new takeovers in the LOI fully supported and endorsed by the FAI


https://waterfordfc.ie/2024/05/30/club-statement-change-of-ownership/

[sulywaterfordfc]

Breaking News: Convicted fraudster who is sitting in jail cell right now for the next 13 years after scamming innocent people and companies out of millions of pounds has sold Waterford to a newly formed entity with only one 100% shareholder who wait for it is his own son

Great to see these type of above board new takeovers in the LOI fully supported and endorsed by the FAI


https://waterfordfc.ie/2024/05/30/club-statement-change-of-ownership/

Legally how can the FAI prevent the sale though? The son had no association to the crime committed by his father nor is he convicted of fraud or disqualified to be a director. Jamie and Steve Curwood have been running the club long before day in fairness.

[EalingGreen]

Breaking News: Convicted fraudster who is sitting in jail cell right now for the next 13 years after scamming innocent people and companies out of millions of pounds has sold Waterford to a newly formed entity with only one 100% shareholder who wait for it is his own son

Great to see these type of above board new takeovers in the LOI fully supported and endorsed by the FAI


https://waterfordfc.ie/2024/05/30/club-statement-change-of-ownership/Not just Waterford, mind, Andy Pilley has also transferred his 98% shareholding in Fleetwood Tn to son Jamie.

This has been approved by the EFL, though there seems to have been some sort of hitch in the process:

In a statement, the league said: "The primary issue was that Mr Andrew Pilley had previously directed that his son Mr Jamie Pilley should be appointed as a director of both Fleetwood Town and Jaymel Ltd, which owned 98% of the club’s shareholding, alongside giving him power of attorney with club voting rights.

"Jamie Pilley was subsequently investigated for a breach of regulations.

"A charge was accepted and by way of an agreed decision - applied under EFL regulations – Mr Jamie Pilley has been handed a three-month suspended ban to act as a club director."

Despite this, the club said that the proposed acquisition has satisfied the requirements , external of the league's Owner's and Directors' Test.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cyjjed4l0p9o

[Acornvilla]

So, Jamie hasn't committed any fraud, but he is using the family fortune built upon fraud to run the football clubs?

That is probably an unbelievably stupid question and over simplification, but I would actually like to hear from someone who knows a lot more than me how this works.

[EalingGreen]

So, Jamie hasn't committed any fraud, but he is using the family fortune built upon fraud to run the football clubs?

That is probably an unbelievably stupid question and over simplification, but I would actually like to hear from someone who knows a lot more than me how this works.In one sense, you're right, it stinks.

Otoh, what exactly do you mean by "using the family fortune built upon fraud to run the football clubs"? All we know is that his old man has gifted him football clubs for free; we don't know how much money JP has, or how he came by it; or even if he intends to put any of his money into the clubs (in theory he might be expecting them both to live within their own means).

[Acornvilla]

In one sense, you're right, it stinks.

Otoh, what exactly do you mean by "using the family fortune built upon fraud to run the football clubs"? All we know is that his old man has gifted him football clubs for free; we don't know how much money JP has, or how he came by it; or even if he intends to put any of his money into the clubs (in theory he might be expecting them both to live within their own means).
This is it, I know nothing of the man, so he might be independently wealthy. (We all know of wealthy people, who definitely are self made and didn't get any help from their family fortunes and connections :D)

The clubs may be in excellent financial health, but given the investment in Waterford, there's absolutely no way it's turning a profit yet, while almost every English league club is insolvent. They do have a new TV deal coming in over there, so maybe that changes things somewhat.

I do find the idea that dad is just vibing in prison now, basically playing an FM save from afar through his son amusing.

Having said all of this stuff, I do wish Waterford well, and they did seem to make a decent effort to improve areas around the club, not just 1st team investment, I personally hate the whole multi club thing, but it is what it is. Between that and where the money's come from, it dosen't feel like much of a good news story thou.