Waterford Complaint

[trevy]

Well that could be add to the list of rankle betwwn Dundalk and Waterford, should invite Jeff McNamara back as a guest next game too!

Don't mention Jeff McNamara in Waterford. 1997 play-off wasn't it? Bit of a fast one pulled off by Dundalk signing him as an amateur shortly before the play-off and then he scored twice against us leading to the inevitable Waterford complaint which we lost!

[Nesta99]

Fast one but within the rules of the time - sure he was signed as an amatuer, played for the jersey and not a penny changed hands!!! That loophole got closed pretty quickly after. After the sifting through player registrations 2012 and trying to claim Rafter wasnt resgistered got a wry smile at the irony considering McNamara years previously. The European stuff and cronyism with Power and Delaney highlighted a trend. Im say this in hoping to see some light at the end of the tunnel of Dundalk issues as there just may be for Waterford currently.

[2 Year Contract]

Came across this article on Twitter. The latest on Lee Power's running of Swindon.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/jul/16/no-manager-not-enough-players-how-swindon-town-were-left-to-fall-apart

[sulywaterfordfc]

Came across this article on Twitter. The latest on Lee Power's running of Swindon.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/jul/16/no-manager-not-enough-players-how-swindon-town-were-left-to-fall-apart

The new owner seems to have his house in order. Seems to be over a lot too. Interesting time ahead for the club. We’d a lucky escape really, we were down and out until Bircham was appointed and of course investment in this window thus far will likely be key in us avoiding relegation.

Swindon on the other hand look in serious trouble. Even if the new owner is in place soon, they’ve got no CEO, manager, director of football or players. And an owner wanting out. Staff went unpaid for June until earlier this week when they received 60% of pay.

[Mr A]

Power Outage in Swindon

https://twitter.com/BBCWiltsSport/status/1417476624338100232

[Mr A]

Squires Cartoon on this sorry fiasco: https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2021/jul/20/david-squires-on-the-sorry-state-of-swindon-town

Waterford were very lucky IMO

[Nesta99]

Squires Cartoon on this sorry fiasco: https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2021/jul/20/david-squires-on-the-sorry-state-of-swindon-town

Waterford were very lucky IMO

So much depended on the European qualification, JD sticking his oar in and all. What would have been very disappointing for Waterford fans at the time, could actually have a better longer term benefit.

[DCSIL]

Marc Bircham’s contract Terminated.

[Eminence Grise]

And that seems to be only the start of it.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2021/1123/1262577-waterford-sack-manager-bircham-ahead-of-play-off/

This one could run...

[2 Year Contract]

And that seems to be only the start of it.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2021/1123/1262577-waterford-sack-manager-bircham-ahead-of-play-off/

This one could run...

Even Lee Power would be proud of that sacking method :D

[2 Year Contract]

Waterford's owner responds with a statement that doesn’t really state a whole lot as expected

https://twitter.com/mcdonnelldan/status/1463195234284838919?s=21

[DCSIL]

Waterford up for sale..

https://www.the42.ie/waterford-fc-4-5797964-Jun2022/

But they're not happy at the above...

https://waterfordfc.ie/club-statement-23-06-2022/

[SPXcyan]

Will it even end? the people in the background are ruining the club!

[joey B]

A week after appointing a new manager .THIS! Ive said it before but I genuienly feel sorry for Waterford fans,they should be an established Premier Divison club with the fanbase and the ground they have but are shafted by their owners all the time,truly mental......

[Longfordian]

€1.3m for a club with no assets. Bargain.

[Nesta99]

€1.3m for a club with no assets. Bargain.

So they have done this to "illicit a commercial assessment of the club’s market value and potential interest" but put a value of €1.3m on the club prior? At least with Power he was getting hammered financially on another football asset and he needed out when Waterford werent going to help his cash flow problems with European qualification money. Forrest seemed to lose interest when he couldnt get Forrest Junior a game.

As far as LoI clubs go Waterford is in a reasonable position to attract interest. Seemingly ok financially in the 1st Division, have gotten back in the promotion picture as long as the new manager can keep the head of steam going, decent ground for nominal rent, a one club city with potential for attracting solid attendances and a history so doesnt have the same hurdles as a new club. Dont know the weekly player budget but if it is manageable in the 1st division - not all doom and gloom.

Not necessarily going to have Waterford fans jumping for joy but it ticks a lot of boxes for those who were circling looking to dip a toe in to LoI, Irish Sea FC, Yola, and whomever else could crop up, Bill Hulsizer to make a return.....

[Eminence Grise]

"illicit a commercial assessment of the club’s market value and potential interest"

Illicit = illegal
Elicit = draw out.

Hard know if it's plain bad spelling or a Freudian slip.

[total hoofball]

First Division club
No assets
Massive fanbase of 450 season ticket holders
Wage bill being gorged on a full-time professional squad with plenty of not so cheap UK players

Yes Richard Forrest you've sold me because I'm a stupid multi millionaire and I'm definitely going to pay EUR 1,300,000.00 for this completely sustainable football club which isn't going to burn a big hole in a pocket

[D24Saint]

Would the €1.3 million not be better spent by anyone interested by buying the name Waterford United from whoever owns it. Then pump the money into football in Waterford and not waste it by paying out the current owner of Waterford FC.

[Nesta99]

Illicit = illegal
Elicit = draw out.

Hard know if it's plain bad spelling or a Freudian slip.

Missed that!

[bluemovie]

Waterford up for sale..

https://www.the42.ie/waterford-fc-4-5797964-Jun2022/

But they're not happy at the above...

https://waterfordfc.ie/club-statement-23-06-2022/

Yeah he's not selling....he's just looking for buyers :rolleyes: He has reasons for needing to get out but he should never have bought it in the first place. I really think he'd be lucky to get 50 to 100 grand. The absolute nonsense in the prospectus quoted in the article is clearly rubbish he's being filled with by a couple of poxes on the club who have dragged us lower and lower the last three years.

[ToberonaTornado]

Feel a bit sorry for Waterford fans.

THEN I REMEMBER all the crap yous have fcuked over us down through the years - so LOL

But yeah. best wishes Waterforf-dy

[SPXcyan]

Yeahhh because the club was the reason for screwing Dundalk over, sure lad, sure.

[Nesta99]

Feel a bit sorry for Waterford fans.

THEN I REMEMBER all the crap yous have fcuked over us down through the years - so LOL

But yeah. best wishes Waterforf-dy

Ah in fairness, the only slightly annoying complaint by Waterford about Dundalk was on Michael Rafter's registration for the 2012 relegation play-off. A desperate act that was found out was set in motion by John Delaney who had all the players' registrations and Dundalk licensing application scrutinised to look for a way to overturn the result. The promotion play-off won against Waterford prior to that was meaningless because of restructuring the league and can only be be blamed on Galway United and their fancy DVD. The relegation play-off before that one was the Jeff McNamara show, a player signed days before the games strictly on amateur terms and scored a couple.
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/waterford-s-appeal-fails-1.72198 The last paragraph in this article is a bit random!

Even if Waterford have done a spot of complaining over the years, tried to get results overturned off the pitch, thought they could ignore UEFA rules with friends in high places, Dundalk fans more than most should be able to empathise with Waterford fans when owners turn a club in to a circus, and when you think things are bad they get worse. Its horrible when your clubs future is on the line.

[EalingGreen]

Is there any chance John Delaney could buy the club?

He's from around those parts, and probably has a bit of money...

(Not a serious suggestion btw. Unless....:eek:)

[D24Saint]

Is there any chance John Delaney could buy the club?

He's from around those parts, and probably has a bit of money...

(Not a serious suggestion btw. Unless....:eek:)

Id imagine he is living somewhere hot to acclimatise himself for the future.

[Nesta99]

Is there any chance John Delaney could buy the club?

He's from around those parts, and probably has a bit of money...

(Not a serious suggestion btw. Unless....:eek:)

He would be that brazen!! It would be the ultimate 2 fingers to those who wanted him out of the Irish game and I'm not sure if there is any real impediment to him buying the club - do we have a fit and proper owner regulation or whatever its called like in England. He has not been charged for any criminal activity, the office of corporate enforcement investigation just seems to have disappeared over deciding what emails are privileged or not despite numerous deadlines set by the judge that he seems to have just ignored. I suppose they could refuse Waterford a license but on what grounds. Unless part of his pay to go away deal includes a clause by the FAI where he has agreed not to try and get back in to football here but that can be challenged and he still has plenty of cronies that would row in behind him (hoping that he might start giving out free booze and someone else's money. Probably says more about me but If I were him i'd consider it, I wouldnt have the neck, but in some way it would make for another interesting episode in League of Ireland. As a chairman he'd sit on various committees and it would give him the in to get his buddies together and go all wrecking ball. It would be the stuff of a major Hollywood blockbuster.....

Just as JD was mentioned, Im sure most have read Champagne Football by now. There are no shortage of incidents that are unbelievable and annoy, but the bit that summed the character of the man was when Ryle Nugent as head of RTE Sport asked about newstalk getting an exclusive on the RoI manager and Delaney patted him on the head saying 'you just dont understand the business'. Nugent walked away and my opinion on him went up a few notches as most would probably have clattered Delaney and we know how much he loves a trip to the courts. Not really sure why but that dismissive and patronising gesture annoyed me as much as anything in the book and I have no particular liking of Nugent. There should probably be a thread on the best and worst bits of the book as itd be interestig to see the different takes fans of different clubs would have.

[Nesta99]

Id imagine he is living somewhere hot to acclimatise himself for the future.

I dont get it lol. He's in a flatshare in London reportedly, working as a consultant for an engineering firm that deals in health stuff so claimed he was a key player in the NHS response to the covid pandemic?? He also borrowed €200k from Delay Ltd charged at 2.25% and where he is the only director so he must have missed the whole scamming of money from the people so he has resorted to robbing himself.

[Longfordian]

I assume there's a tax benefit if he gets money that way.

[sadloserkid]

I dont get it lol.

I'd speculate that the warm future alluded to is hell.

[Martinho II]

Considering Noel Mooney is head of the Welsh FA wonder would JD be cheeky enough to join him on the Welsh FA or did they ever get on does anyone know?

[ToberonaTornado]

Yeahhh because the club was the reason for screwing Dundalk over, sure lad, sure.

SPX - Dude,i was fishing for a response - sorry. Sent the same message out on my Twitter and hooked plenty.
More serious note re the valuation of the club(Waterford FC) at slightly north of 1million euro?? CRAZY


Ah in fairness, the only slightly annoying complaint by Waterford about Dundalk was on Michael Rafter's registration for the 2012 relegation play-off. A desperate act that was found out was set in motion by John Delaney who had all the players' registrations and Dundalk licensing application scrutinised to look for a way to overturn the result. The promotion play-off won against Waterford prior to that was meaningless because of restructuring the league and can only be be blamed on Galway United and their fancy DVD. The relegation play-off before that one was the Jeff McNamara show, a player signed days before the games strictly on amateur terms and scored a couple.
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/waterford-s-appeal-fails-1.72198 The last paragraph in this article is a bit random!

Even if Waterford have done a spot of complaining over the years, tried to get results overturned off the pitch, thought they could ignore UEFA rules with friends in high places, Dundalk fans more than most should be able to empathise with Waterford fans when owners turn a club in to a circus, and when you think things are bad they get worse. Its horrible when your clubs future is on the line.

100% agree with you Nesta,

[sadloserkid]

Considering Noel Mooney is head of the Welsh FA wonder would JD be cheeky enough to join him on the Welsh FA or did they ever get on does anyone know?

Mooney seems a nice enough fella but he's a political beast as well. I'd be absolutely shocked if he allowed any Delaney-stink anywhere near hia vehicle of ambition.

[EatYerGreens]

He would be that brazen!! It would be the ultimate 2 fingers to those who wanted him out of the Irish game and I'm not sure if there is any real impediment to him buying the club

Just the small matter of him being feckin' skint :D

[EatYerGreens]

I assume there's a tax benefit if he gets money that way.

Of course there is. If the company has that kind of mponey sitting in it, the only other way he'd be able to get it out would be as salary or dividends - both of which would attract tax. So he can take it as a loan instead, and get the full value of the €200k, rather than whatever would be left after tax took its chunk. Plus it probably keeps him in a lower tax bracket too to take it as a loan (at a derisory interest rate).

[EalingGreen]

Just the small matter of him being feckin' skint :D
Not a problem if he was allowed to relocate the club eg to the Isle of Man or Cayman Islands, I'd say.

("If you can't move the Mountain of Cash to Mohammed, move Mohammed to the Mountain of Cash", as it were)

[Longfordian]

Of course there is. If the company has that kind of mponey sitting in it, the only other way he'd be able to get it out would be as salary or dividends - both of which would attract tax. So he can take it as a loan instead, and get the full value of the €200k, rather than whatever would be left after tax took its chunk. Plus it probably keeps him in a lower tax bracket too to take it as a loan (at a derisory interest rate).

That's what I was assuming. If he gets the loan written off at some point would he attract any liability then?

[EatYerGreens]

Not a problem if he was allowed to relocate the club eg to the Isle of Man or Cayman Islands, I'd say.

("If you can't move the Mountain of Cash to Mohammed, move Mohammed to the Mountain of Cash", as it were)

You still can't buy and move a club if you don't have the cash to buy it :cool:

[EatYerGreens]

That's what I was assuming. If he gets the loan written off at some point would he attract any liability then?

Would be tricky if he's the sole or majority shateholder/has a controlling interest in the company.

[joey B]

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/business-of-sport/arid-40917665.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Interesting article on Waterford’s “valuation “


This is definitely the funniest though:
If sought-after players emerge from “one of the best academies in Ireland” and through its development of “an academy relationship with Blackburn Rovers” – by the by, Blackburn Rovers told The Pitch that "there is no partnership or agreement in place with Waterford.”

Some spoofing from your man…

[culloty82]

Interesting development this morning - appears a consortium fronted by Marc Bircham is in advanced talks to buy the club, also includes a friend of his who "already owns an English football League One club":

https://twitter.com/damienwlr/status/1557983660862840832

[Nesta99]

Sounds a bit Roddy Collins tbh. If Netflix followed Waterford FC around with cameras it would top that All or nothing series by a lot!

[sulywaterfordfc]

Apparently Bircham, the fleetwood town owner Andy Piley and a local business group have formed a consortium and are in talks with purchasing the club. Forrest’s son George has signed for a club in something like the 8th tier in England.

[total hoofball]

Another dodgy League 1 club owner who is only up on trial for fraud and money laundering charges this October, what could possibly go wrong for Waterford with this takeover this time?

[Nesta99]

Keep him away from the post and it might just be ok!

[Longfordian]

This is possibly a stupid question but are there are any "fit and proper person" type checks in LOI licensing? I'd have thought fraud charges might pose a problem.

[Nesta99]

An organisation run for decades by John Delaney...Fit and proper person checks would have been some laugh!

[2 Year Contract]

Deal agreed. This will end well.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/soccer/arid-40940858.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

[sulywaterfordfc]

He is also counter suing. Can’t be any worse the Forrest or power. Power left Swindon and us on the verge of folding. Forrest is a good man but should never of owned a football club.

[Nesta99]

He is also counter suing. Can’t be any worse the Forrest or power. Power left Swindon and us on the verge of folding. Forrest is a good man but should never of owned a football club.

Any particular reason, just beyond his financial resources or too inclined to get involved in team selection? Waterford were incredibly lucky that he was interested in buying when Power was pulling fast ones all around him (its the one thing i'd be curious about if Delaney stayied at the FAI a bit longer is whether he could have gotten around the rules on European qualification and whether it could have been preplanned with Power in advance if WFC finished top 4/won cup).

The court case is yet to be heard on Piley and his businesses so maybe not fair to call it a Power mk II but it's still a bit Waterford. The press conference will be interestinng though he will just refuse to comment on ongoing legal issues. Unpicking the stuff around Power and Swindon was quite an eyeopener but there was always chatter of messing at Swindon but havent heard anything on Fleetwood bar the already mentioned climb through the divisions, missing out on a big sell-on for Vardy when Arsenal wanted him. A case was taken by Piley in 2015 against a number of people where the ruling made was to retract comments and desist from whatever thee people were saying, not a whole lot more info on that. The current case to be heard is seemingly in a legal progress for 8 years so could be connected. Ofgem fined a couple of Piley's companies £2! + donations to charity. Current charges are serious if found guilty but additional fines would be the the outcome, they're softer on white collar crime in Engalnd and Wales than they are here. Supposedly Piley's companies are owed about €20mil by Fleetwood but assurances have been made that these wont be called in until the club can afford them, he is involved 18 years now and the wheels havent come off. The balance sheets dont look great even pre pandemic but if debts are covered than thats a positive. It doesnt seem to be a consortium with other clubs he is involved with so may be some differences on how things at Waterford will be done.

Whats a bit odd is that there isnt a whole lot on the court cases past and pending. Stuff on Piley's personal business stuff are scant eg his estimated wealth ranges from a few million to 49mil but still is a lot lower than what you'd expect from an owner of a bunch of energy related companies imo and can carry a loan of circa £20mil to a football club. The wiki page is a homage to the success at Fleetwood and successful business ventures, and all the charitable involvements, like it was written up by one of his kids. It will be an interesting period for Waterford, I have no bases for this opinion but it could be an investment that works. A potential issue is if Bircham is installed as manager and things dont go to plan what happens - I dont think there's a rule that stops a (part) owner from being a head coach if he is a member of the consortium?!

This article is fun and worth a read, not sure its a serious effort,...clueless if it is!
https://sportschunky.com/net-worth/fleetwood-town-team-net-worth/

Some links to the company registers with accounts if someone is bothered, the football club accounts may be of interest to have a look at for something of a comparison between the finances of our own league and L1/L2 in England. Bircham's registration there too.
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/03359117

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/officers/2A9L-dO2llt5Cysu1sX52vYzJuQ/appointments

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/11658634