Potential ramifications for LOI after todays FAI accounts debacle.

[Kingswood Rover]

What now folks, what do people think the potential impact of today's revelations will have on our League and can we keep the FAI CUP:o

[Nesta99]

Where do you start on the potential issues. Hopefully though the new company that will run the league might avoid some of the associated issues eg sponsors. But when it comes to an increase on prizemoney etc from the FAI at a time when staff cuts are likely to happen among all the flying ****e well timing isnt the best. That said any time that saw JD ousted cant really be all bad. It beggars belief though - how long would he have persisted with the charade of financial stability before the cards came crashing in - Ollie Byrne had his critics but at least he cared about something when playing with money that didnt exist.

[marinobohs]

Nobody knows where this debacle ends. It is a clusterfuk, probobly unmatched in Irish sports history. Possible legal cases alone may take years, and who will be involved in any future administration ? At least until things are clearer ?
LOI clubs should be looking at some structure outside the FAI.

[Nesta99]

Nobody knows where this debacle ends. It is a clusterfuk, probobly unmatched in Irish sports history. Possible legal cases alone may take years, and who will be involved in any future administration ? At least until things are clearer ?
LOI clubs should be looking at some structure outside the FAI.

That prospect is a little unsettling in itself still; but at least now any issues the clubs running the league caused in the past looks like the work of a well oiled organisation now in comparison to the FAI.

[John83]

That prospect is a little unsettling in itself still; but at least now any issues the clubs running the league caused in the past looks like the work of a well oiled organisation now in comparison to the FAI.
Ah now, let's not go mad.

[Mr_Parker]

How many LOI clubs/reps helped to prop up the FAI regime through vocal support, statements or failing to question them at AGM's etc of the past decade or so, directly or indirectly, and would any of those same people end up involved in any new league set up via their club position?

[Martinho II]

How many LOI clubs/reps helped to prop up the FAI regime through vocal support, statements or failing to question them at AGM's etc of the past decade or so, directly or indirectly, and would any of those same people end up involved in any new league set up via their club position?

In fairness to the journos they werent allowed to ask qs at FAI AGMs so I imagine that was the same with LOI Reps too. Wasnt there someone from Clare FA got a few months ban for daring to ask a question?

[pineapple stu]

He was a player - six month ban for criticising a league official for defending Delaney (https://www.thesun.ie/sport/football/4859972/clare-district-league-suspended-player-john-delaney/). Absolutely disgraceful stuff, and symptomatic of the huge problems in the game at the moment.

What'll happen the league after this? An obvious one is that prize money could be cut, or league entry fees could be raised. The FAI is bust, and will be looking for money from all sides. Sponsors may be less likely to get involved at club level too. This could easily see us lose a couple more clubs - and there's no-one interested in joining the league.

The whole structure of Irish football needs to be rebooted; every league shut down and the whole structure started from scratch with a proper pyramid system. Along the lines of current local systems if needs be, but there's too many small fish in big ponds with way more power than they deserve.

You would imagine European spots will get even more important now - guaranteed good money in a time of nothing - and Dundalk/Rovers would need to seriously mess things up to be challenged at the top in the short to medium term I think.

[Nesta99]

How many LOI clubs/reps helped to prop up the FAI regime through vocal support, statements or failing to question them at AGM's etc of the past decade or so, directly or indirectly, and would any of those same people end up involved in any new league set up via their club position?

There is a hint of you rubbing the hands at all this MR Parker. As Martinho alluded to there wasnt much opportunity to question Herr Delaney. There was a air of fear to dissenting as it would likely lead to some sort of punishment. If anything the silence from senior clubs spoke volumes bar the few that threw their hat in with Delaney managing to surpress the media as in the past.

[Mr_Parker]

In fairness to the journos they werent allowed to ask qs at FAI AGMs so I imagine that was the same with LOI Reps too. Wasnt there someone from Clare FA got a few months ban for daring to ask a question?

I think you are confused. Of course journalists couldn't ask questions at an AGM. They were only given special dispensation to be in the room to report on it. Though how they were coralled and prevented with interacting with reps was wrong, but nothing to stop them interviewing reps away from an AGM. The membership, including the LOI reps are and were fully entitled to raise questions, it is their meeting.

[Mr_Parker]

He was a player - six month ban for criticising a league official for defending Delaney (https://www.thesun.ie/sport/football/4859972/clare-district-league-suspended-player-john-delaney/). Absolutely disgraceful stuff, and symptomatic of the huge problems in the game at the moment.

What'll happen the league after this? An obvious one is that prize money could be cut, or league entry fees could be raised. The FAI is bust, and will be looking for money from all sides. Sponsors may be less likely to get involved at club level too. This could easily see us lose a couple more clubs - and there's no-one interested in joining the league.

The whole structure of Irish football needs to be rebooted; every league shut down and the whole structure started from scratch with a proper pyramid system. Along the lines of current local systems if needs be, but there's too many small fish in big ponds with way more power than they deserve.

You would imagine European spots will get even more important now - guaranteed good money in a time of nothing - and Dundalk/Rovers would need to seriously mess things up to be challenged at the top in the short to medium term I think.

There is a petition running against his ban.

https://www.change.org/p/football-association-of-ireland-overturn-jordans-unfair-6-month-football-ban-for-voicing-his-opinion-on-fai-corruption?recruiter=204994966&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=psf_combo_share_abi&recruited_by_id=85435c50-92f3-11e4-8ae3-1b133dc6cf16&share_bandit_exp=abi-19412359-en-GB&share_bandit_var=v1

[Mr_Parker]

There is a hint of you rubbing the hands at all this MR Parker. As Martinho alluded to there wasnt much opportunity to question Herr Delaney. There was a air of fear to dissenting as it would likely lead to some sort of punishment. If anything the silence from senior clubs spoke volumes bar the few that threw their hat in with Delaney managing to surpress the media as in the past.

I'm not rubbing my hands at anything. The membership of any organisation is duty bound to ensure their organisation is being properly run. That should be via AGM's, the FAI Council, committees etc. The failure to do so, by many member club in effect makes them complicit. What is worse is those who went out of their way to laud platitudes on such a regime. IFA AGM's over the years, by comparison, have seen many lively affairs with the top table being challenged left, right and centre, leading meetings being adjourned and resulting in significant changes. One that Delaney attended as a guest recently even saw a protest from a fan leading to the police being called and the meeting having to eventually being moved to another room.

[mrtndvn]

Maybe all the FAI associate clubs were trying to emulate the magnificent IL and pre-booked their holidays during a known important event.

[Mr_Parker]

Maybe all the FAI associate clubs were trying to emulate the magnificent IL and pre-booked their holidays during a known important event.

Did I say it was magnificent? Hardly a good argument to defend what was allowed to happen.

I saw this earlier in a newspaper report, and if one of our IFA board members who was there to represent clubs stated his, then there would be serious questions asked why they are on the board.

"The six new board members elected in July had been part of the FAI council who had a duty to keep Delaney and his fellow board members in check.

"To a large extent, you take things at face value," added Richard Shakespeare, one of the six new board members.

"We were getting assurances, both from reports at council meetings and the auditors at the AGMs," added Shakespeare, a senior official working for Dublin City Council. "I didn't know what questions to ask. I'm a volunteer, not an accountant."


Given his background in sport and business, especially, iirc, having held a treasurer position for several years at the Athletic Union Council, this surely be of concern.

[pineapple stu]

I think that's a bit simplistic to be fair. A club official at an AGM doesn't have the same info as a person on the board - so the suggestion that they aren't really suited to being on the board because of their comments while not on the board isn't really reasonable I think.

Also, the FAI does seem to have been run along the same lines as North Korea in a way - I think the threat of damage to your club from speaking out was very real. A number of people were stabbed in the back for challenging Delaney, for example. Is it worth damaging your club to ask a question, when you didn't know what questions should be asked anyway? Are you going to stand up in the AGM and ask if the audited accounts are really accurate, for example? What sort of question is that? Are you going to ask to see Delaney's expense forms? That's not business for the AGM.

Once you're on the board though, it's literally your business to know these things, you have access to far more info, and far more right to that info. It's not comparable.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Regards the board membership, I think we saw at that Oireachtas committee meeting that many of them hadn't a clue what was going on. Remember that Eddie Murray guy? If that was the calibre of board member, then the whole situation becomes a bit more believable.

[Mr_Parker]

I think that's a bit simplistic to be fair. A club official at an AGM doesn't have the same info as a person on the board - so the suggestion that they aren't really suited to being on the board because of their comments while not on the board isn't really reasonable I think.

Also, the FAI does seem to have been run along the same lines as North Korea in a way - I think the threat of damage to your club from speaking out was very real. A number of people were stabbed in the back for challenging Delaney, for example. Is it worth damaging your club to ask a question, when you didn't know what questions should be asked anyway? Are you going to stand up in the AGM and ask if the audited accounts are really accurate, for example? What sort of question is that? Are you going to ask to see Delaney's expense forms? That's not business for the AGM.

Once you're on the board though, it's literally your business to know these things, you have access to far more info, and far more right to that info. It's not comparable.

It's to easy to abdicate responsibility by using the "volutunteer", in fact it should never be used. You have been elected or appointed to a position to do a job. You have accepted the responsibilities that go with it. He sat on the Council, a much more entrusted position than a rep at an AGM.

As for the fear factor you allude to, what power, in real terms, could the FAI hold over a club or individual in a club. If anything, some clubs and individuals appear to have taken advantage of the support the FAI and individuals were craving and canvassing for, to gain advantage for their club, while content to not ask questions.

[NeverFeltBetter]

They would hold the power to deny or withhold grants and other associated supports?

[pineapple stu]

Absolutely. It's naive to believe the FAI have no or little power over clubs.

They (i.e. Delaney) also have the power to turn people against you - he'll clearly put it around, say, the Clare league that Joe Soap is the reason that grants have dried up. There'll be a scramble to screw Joe Soap over and praise Delaney so you can be the one to get the grants back.

[Mr_Parker]

They would hold the power to deny or withhold grants and other associated supports?

I would imagine, like in the IFA and other national associations, little if any grants come out of their own pocket, but rather are monies being distributed from UEFA, Sports Ireland, etc pots. Any attempt to deny money entitled to clubs would have seen those and similar bodies impose sanctions on the FAI.

[pineapple stu]

Bless...

[Nesta99]

I think you are confused. Of course journalists couldn't ask questions at an AGM. They were only given special dispensation to be in the room to report on it. Though how they were coralled and prevented with interacting with reps was wrong, but nothing to stop them interviewing reps away from an AGM. The membership, including the LOI reps are and were fully entitled to raise questions, it is their meeting.

You are undoubtedly very knowledgeable on football matters north and south Mr P. Probably the most significant issue for senior clubs was that the junior and schools delegates held control of FAI Council. This Delaney powerbase was born out of the ability to throw money around to purchase votes. Reform couldnt happen as for JD and co that would like a turkey voting for christmas.
Reform was proposed as far back as the Genesis Report but the bits that may have made a difference were never implemented - there are probably a number of similar reports that have gathered dust over the years. The fact that LoI clubs held a minority at AGMs Council, Board, meant a situation developed where if the party line wasnt towed the club suffered usually via the rejecting of grant applications.
I would go as far as JD being the person responsible for the forensic examination of Dundalk FC player registrations after the 2012 play-off win over Delaneys club Waterford Utd - Dundalk didnt do anything but it is an example of the lengths he would go to to manipulate even results on the pitch. Thankfully our club secretary is a very competant individual and wouldnt have made any error.
The fear factor was significant enough for people to keep their powder dry until one day dogdey John would get greedy, complacent and end up fooking up. I would question the stomach of media editors who balked at every threat of litigation and pulled investigative writing that would have brought the FAI house of cards down years earlier.
FFS he tried to bully the British press after his rebel song embaressment - he was that arrogant!
While no board should be as dysfunctional I believe that members were intimidated, they were broken up in to groups where information was controlled and a whole board was never privy to all information. Delaney saw how people were shafted in the quiet corners of Merrion Square and even made sure that Abbotstown was designed as openplan and meetingrooms partitioned in glass and all within view of the CEOs glass cubicle.
Its all tip of the iceberg also and we dont have a record of punishing white collar crime in this country if Delaney has been shown to have misapporpriated money or even just evaded tax on his benefits in kind

[pineapple stu]

Realistically too, the Council's power is limited enough outside of supporting JD. It's entirely reasonable, for example, for them to take the auditors' word that the books of account are correct.

The board have less cover here as one of the adjusting items made here was due to an extra contract (or two?) which Delaney was awarded and which was hidden from the auditors (and presumably Council). But who gave him that contract? It would have to have been the board - or a subcommittee of it.

The other issue then is the personal expenses. This is where the Finance Director and the auditors would come under more pressure for their involvement - but why weren't the board reviewing and signing off the CEO's expenses? This would be standard corporate governance.

This is also going a way off topic btw; maybe worth a split?

[Kingswood Rover]

It really galls me that out of every euro that clubs will be now giving to the FAI in fees fines etc a substantial portion of it will be going to cover whatever package the association can agree with its funders. let it go start again fcuk the FAI

[Nesta99]

In nearly all elected executives there is a vulnerability due to the need of a GM/CEO/General Secretary/Civil Servant to report and inform a board in a transparent and honest manner. These people certainly drive agendas on organisations policy on how they frame info given to an executive group. It wouldnt be a push to say that the level of control, deception and even an employee (CEO) holding a vote on an elected body is unprecedented. Des Casey introduced ruleS that limited the number of terms an elected board member served after the scandals of the 90s but funnily enough this was removed subsequently. Subcommittees were told what to report back to the board so many, especially the non cronys, were in the dark. Finances are different of course and thats where suspicion that alls not well should arise but we saw the performance of the honarary tresurer in not even knowing how many bank accounts that were held. Will there be an investigation in to the false auditing that was carried out, signed off and filed?? Serious ethical question need to be asked of the large auditor in question.

I have spent a good bit of time on elected boards in the past and ye can tell an employee is holding back - usually as they are protecting the elected board from themselves when decisions can be made emotionally rather than with financial prudence. It's ironic that the witholding of info here was to protect self interests with a complete disregard for the health of the organisation. Ive said it before but Delaney must suffer ummm a 'personality disorder' for such showing the level arrogance that Believed he would never be caught, that he was smarter than everyone else, that he was entitled to 'steal' all this cause he was doing such a good job - lies on a CV, calculated manipulation of the CEO salary before he shafted the the former CEO to get the job himself and the beans that went with. Purchasing support and creating the John the Baptist persona, crying on national media over 'bullying' when this mostly was calling things out. Its all a sad indicment on the values some people in roles of repsonsibility in this country - maybe he could become a running mate of the Healy-Raes in the next GE....

[pineapple stu]

Finances are different of course and thats where suspicion that alls not well should arise but we saw the performance of the honarary tresurer in not even knowing how many bank accounts that were held. Will there be an investigation in to the false auditing that was carried out, signed off and filed?? Serious ethical question need to be asked of the large auditor in question.
The auditor issue is interesting alright. I know from experience that an audit can often be worth **** all, especially if a Director or a Finance person is conspiring to hide stuff.

That's the extent here to a degree too. There's probably nothing the auditors could have done about the hidden contracts. They seem not to have been in the accounts at all, and maybe only came to light when Delaney was being booted out, and he claimed what he was due under existing contracts.

The sponsorship deal which seems to have been recognised in full in its first year, and which has since been pulled resulting in an adjustment to income now, may well have just fallen through the cracks as an audit doesn't - can't - examine everything. Maybe only some deals were spot-checked and found to be in order; that's the nature of an audit. Bit of a risk from the FAI if so.

The expenses though - the size and scale of them does seem to be more concerning. Again, an audit will only spot check items - but surely the law of averages means a couple of the dodgy expenses would have been found. Then it becomes something you can dig into.

[Kingdom]

I would question the stomach of media editors who balked at every threat of litigation and pulled investigative writing that would have brought the FAI house of cards down years earlier.
FFS he tried to bully the British press after his rebel song embaressment - he was that arrogant!


Good man Nesta. I really think this is overlooked. There are are a lot of people scrambling the last 9 months to get on Tighe and Rowan's coat-tails.

[Yossarian]

Good man Nesta. I really think this is overlooked. There are are a lot of people scrambling the last 9 months to get on Tighe and Rowan's coat-tails.

Libel laws are that draconian in this country that media organisations almost always have no choice but to curb these types of investigations as they have little or no chance of winning any cases that are taken against them.

[Nesta99]

Libel Laws in most countries require the burden of evidence on the media outlet to back up its story but there is a fatigue on the amount of reporting (super) injunctions being heard, in the UK especially. There is enough to suggest that any editor that called Delaney's bluff would have been on to a major story a decade ago. Journalists the length of the counrty have been sitting on stories that they wanted to publish and i'd be sure with the many quality ones we have they'd have believed that they could stand over their work legally. Lets not lose sight that JD made his usualy play and abused the family court system to try and gag Mark Tighe. Delaney thought a late submission to the court would be out of left field for the paper but they managed to state their case and the judge probably anxious to get home, late on a weekend evening wasnt in the mood for petty BS. When he threatened legalities on Britsh media and they laughed it was then that Irish media reported extensively on the topic. Besides there's no shortage of footage showing him acting irreesponsibly for the position he held - if they had pushed him on that he'd have pushed back and the fun would have at least started back then.

[Mr A]

I would imagine, like in the IFA and other national associations, little if any grants come out of their own pocket, but rather are monies being distributed from UEFA, Sports Ireland, etc pots. Any attempt to deny money entitled to clubs would have seen those and similar bodies impose sanctions on the FAI.

A word in the right ear at the Department of Sport or where-ever and your project could be dead in the water. You may never even know what really happened. Just a hint that all wasn't right at such and such a club and suddenly there may be a great reluctance to allocate or release money. The threat was absolutely there that if clubs rocked the boat they'd be made to suffer. For example, I know forum posts by supporters were brought up at licensing meetings. It's madness of course.. but the implication was clear- keep your people under control. And very few of the clubs have been in a strong enough position to stand up and fight back- sometimes the ones with backers would have that confidence but the sad fact is they had something to hold over most of us. While I was very frustrated that FHFC only found a voice in recent times, I can absolutely understand why it was viewed as safer to keep the heads down.

[Mr_Parker]

A word in the right ear at the Department of Sport or where-ever and your project could be dead in the water. You may never even know what really happened. Just a hint that all wasn't right at such and such a club and suddenly there may be a great reluctance to allocate or release money. The threat was absolutely there that if clubs rocked the boat they'd be made to suffer. For example, I know forum posts by supporters were brought up at licensing meetings. It's madness of course.. but the implication was clear- keep your people under control. And very few of the clubs have been in a strong enough position to stand up and fight back- sometimes the ones with backers would have that confidence but the sad fact is they had something to hold over most of us. While I was very frustrated that FHFC only found a voice in recent times, I can absolutely understand why it was viewed as safer to keep the heads down.

So too many people, more concerned with their own self-interest? Such a culture begins in a small way, and obviously was allowed to fester. It should have been nipped in the bud, but obviously wasn't, most likely for the reason given in my first sentence. Therefore there is potential culpability for where things stand today.

However, while you indicate that 'a quiet word' could potentially scupper funding, such public bodies have checks and balances in place to prevent manipulation. Had a club felt victim of such, then a challenge could have been made.

Interesting that you mention Licensing and the pressures brought on some to say nothing, does that indicate that process to be questionable too? I did mention this in the thread discussing the AIL and exampled a couple of unqualified managers, yet licences were granted. Are you suggesting that their silence was bought off on the basis of licenses being granted?

Could it be argued that the LOI/clubs may have questions to answer as part of this debacle too, and/or that as the various investigations start to drill down, some unpleasant truths may come to light at club level?

[marinobohs]

The FAI basket case will be toxic for a long time, possibly irredeemable.
There must be two separate strands to this (1) accounting for the past and (2) the future of Irish football. 2 cannot afford to wait until 1 concludes especially with AGS action involved.
On the plus side it is a chance to bypass some of the dinosaurs holding back Irish football and a blank canvas for restructuring the game here. Not what anyone would want but it is an opportunity

[Mr A]

So too many people, more concerned with their own self-interest? Such a culture begins in a small way, and obviously was allowed to fester. It should have been nipped in the bud, but obviously wasn't, most likely for the reason given in my first sentence. Therefore there is potential culpability for where things stand today.

However, while you indicate that 'a quiet word' could potentially scupper funding, such public bodies have checks and balances in place to prevent manipulation. Had a club felt victim of such, then a challenge could have been made.

Interesting that you mention Licensing and the pressures brought on some to say nothing, does that indicate that process to be questionable too? I did mention this in the thread discussing the AIL and exampled a couple of unqualified managers, yet licences were granted. Are you suggesting that their silence was bought off on the basis of licenses being granted?

Could it be argued that the LOI/clubs may have questions to answer as part of this debacle too, and/or that as the various investigations start to drill down, some unpleasant truths may come to light at club level?

Self interest perhaps unfair.. self preservation more appropriate I think. People believed that speaking up would make no difference. And there wasn't anything usable in writing.. people just knew the score. Don't forget that up until recently the Minister for Sport thought Delaney was a great lad.

Should more clubs have stood up and called things out? Absolutely. Would it have made a difference? Hard to say.

[sbgawa]

When you are living hand to mouth like most LOI clubs its very hard to slap the hand that is feeding you.
Self preservation is a better way of putting it for sure and best describes club football administrators who are trying to make sure the bus company and the ESB bills get paid.
Its easy to condemn people who were more interested in paying their way locally then changing the world

[Mr_Parker]

Self interest perhaps unfair.. self preservation more appropriate I think. People believed that speaking up would make no difference. And there wasn't anything usable in writing.. people just knew the score. Don't forget that up until recently the Minister for Sport thought Delaney was a great lad.

Should more clubs have stood up and called things out? Absolutely. Would it have made a difference? Hard to say.

You can call it what you like, but it still amounts to the same thing in reality. Just because the minister thought he was a great lad, does not negate my point.

[Mr_Parker]

When you are living hand to mouth like most LOI clubs its very hard to slap the hand that is feeding you.
Self preservation is a better way of putting it for sure and best describes club football administrators who are trying to make sure the bus company and the ESB bills get paid.
Its easy to condemn people who were more interested in paying their way locally then changing the world

In reality, how much did the FAI contribute to LOI clubs? Ie. Money that did not come from UEFA, local councils, Sport Ireland etc?

[sbgawa]

In reality, how much did the FAI contribute to LOI clubs? Ie. Money that did not come from UEFA, local councils, Sport Ireland etc?

Doesnt matter if the money came from UEFA or not it had to make its way through the FAI.
All the funding from UEFA went into a big mixing pot in the FAI and whatever they decided to dole out to the clubs was the difference between paying the bills and not in many cases.
Its easy to say it wasnt a lot for some clubs but if you dont have €500 to pay a local business you owe money too it might as well be 5000 as 500.....

[Mr_Parker]

Doesnt matter if the money came from UEFA or not it had to make its way through the FAI.
All the funding from UEFA went into a big mixing pot in the FAI and whatever they decided to dole out to the clubs was the difference between paying the bills and not in many cases.
Its easy to say it wasnt a lot for some clubs but if you dont have €500 to pay a local business you owe money too it might as well be 5000 as 500.....

No national association can withhold UEFA money ment for a specific purpose that LOI clubs are entitled to get, e.g. prize money and Solidarity payments. It doesn't go into a big pot.

[Nesta99]

I take back what I said about being knwoledgeable on football in the South. You do at least know that this all really kicked off when Dundalk went looking for a tranche of their European prizemoney and the FAI refused and started to dictate at timetable for possible paying on of the money. The 100k was partly at least to throw Dundalk a few quid to keep things sweet until the rest of the money could be gathered up.

Licencing is flawed but rightly not always draconian eg with Vinny Perth doing his Pro Licence, this requirement covered by having a pro licence holder on the bench temorarily. Its gets daft when a planning application can cover stadia requirements.

The payments you mention go in to seperate accounts yes, consider that the Honarary Tresurer didnt know what accounts the FAI held. Those specific accounts were dipped in to to cover more pressing running costs like the CEOs dinner, rent, 5k to clubs as he wished without checks and balances, salary, jobs for the (ex) girlfirends, cans for the supporters etc - ye know the important stuff...

I do understand the doubts that you have Mr P, its is entirely unbelieveable. You are technically correct that everyone in Irish football has in some way contributed to all of this by keeping the heads down but higher up the foodchain attempts were made to intervene including by government PAC - did you see the contempt shown to the national parliment?? If they, including some of the no bs types, couldnt make any headway how could a bunch of clubs that have been starved to keep them weak and in check?

In another country where white collar crime was taken seriously there would be a real prospect of time served for what has happened, alas I think the Garda investigation has happened due to scorned politicians in the PAC that want a piece of JD for his show of contempt - not that there is a 'crime' to be answered by the individual who used patsies to do his bidding and cover him. At best the underdeclaring of tax on his benefits in kind might mean pressure from the revenue - payment and fine! I hope that JD continues to stonewall and in his arrogant detatchment from reality damages himself some more and CAB and the task force set up get the bit between their teeth also.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Isn't that exactly what happened with Dundalk's European prize money?

[Mr A]

Not only that, one club at a gathering at the FAI earlier this year pointed out youth solidarity money was late and was causing massive problems for them.

At the time I remember thinking it was a huge step forward that they were even willing to stand up and say that, because in previous times they probably would not.

[Mr_Parker]

I take back what I said about being knwoledgeable on football in the South. You do at least know that this all really kicked off when Dundalk went looking for a tranche of their European prizemoney and the FAI refused and started to dictate at timetable for possible paying on of the money. The 100k was partly at least to throw Dundalk a few quid to keep things sweet until the rest of the money could be gathered up.

Licencing is flawed but rightly not always draconian eg with Vinny Perth doing his Pro Licence, this requirement covered by having a pro licence holder on the bench temorarily. Its gets daft when a planning application can cover stadia requirements.

The payments you mention go in to seperate accounts yes, consider that the Honarary Tresurer didnt know what accounts the FAI held. Those specific accounts were dipped in to to cover more pressing running costs like the CEOs dinner, rent, 5k to clubs as he wished without checks and balances, salary, jobs for the (ex) girlfirends, cans for the supporters etc - ye know the important stuff...

I do understand the doubts that you have Mr P, its is entirely unbelieveable. You are technically correct that everyone in Irish football has in some way contributed to all of this by keeping the heads down but higher up the foodchain attempts were made to intervene including by government PAC - did you see the contempt shown to the national parliment?? If they, including some of the no bs types, couldnt make any headway how could a bunch of clubs that have been starved to keep them weak and in check?

In another country where white collar crime was taken seriously there would be a real prospect of time served for what has happened, alas I think the Garda investigation has happened due to scorned politicians in the PAC that want a piece of JD for his show of contempt - not that there is a 'crime' to be answered by the individual who used patsies to do his bidding and cover him. At best the underdeclaring of tax on his benefits in kind might mean pressure from the revenue - payment and fine! I hope that JD continues to stonewall and in his arrogant detatchment from reality damages himself some more and CAB and the task force set up get the bit between their teeth also.

You prove my point. Yes I am aware of what triggered the Delaney cheque. It was the very challenging of the lack of payment to Dundalk that is the sort of 'power' clubs hold over association's that I am highlighting and how they can be held in check. While it may not expose all the wrong doing, it certainly would cast a shadow. Clubs need to and needed to, speak out on such matters at the time. Accepting being 'kept sweet' is not right imo. I suspect Dundalk were fortunate enough financially to accept part payment, a luxury few clubs could afford.

The intervention by the PAC was late in the day. Such attempts at accountability should have started a decade ago and not just by government.

No other national association would allow what happened ref Perth. There were attempts by some Welsh clubs to do similar, but they were shot down. Indeed when Waterford lost out on a UEFA spot, they should have really been arguing that case. You call it being draconian, most see it as ensuring a level playing field.

[Mr_Parker]

Not only that, one club at a gathering at the FAI earlier this year pointed out youth solidarity money was late and was causing massive problems for them.

At the time I remember thinking it was a huge step forward that they were even willing to stand up and say that, because in previous times they probably would not.

Has it been paid out for this period? I presume that despite a seasonality difference it would be due to LOI clubs at the same time as IFA clubs, which was paid to them last week.

[colonelwest]

Isn't that exactly what happened with Dundalk's European prize money?

Yup, look at the FAI balance sheets for 2017 and 2018:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ELG2jWNXYAABWmb?format=jpg&name=900x900

Coincidentally there's around a 6m dent in the difference which just so happens to be the prize and tv money that we were owed from the EL campaign from UEFA.

JD/ The FAI got the funds from UEFA to pay it down to Dundalk as is the standard process across Europe and they used it as cash flow for as long as they could,insisted they'd give it to Dundalk on tick or some sort of long term HP plan for Dundalks own good out of the goodness of their FAI hearts. Sure they can't be trusted with their own money they earned. Understandably, DFC weren't too happy with that arrangement and after plenty of back and forth a threat was made to go public with it as a bill was coming due for DFC so funds were demanded ASAP from the FAI balance owed, et voila JD and his magic 100k. Also allegedly a massive coincidence his divorce was being finalised at the time. Ahem.

[Mr A]

Has it been paid out for this period? I presume that despite a seasonality difference it would be due to LOI clubs at the same time as IFA clubs, which was paid to them last week.

No idea, but last year's only seems to have arrived in or around July as that's when this exchange took place.

[Nesta99]

You prove my point. Yes I am aware of what triggered the Delaney cheque. It was the very challenging of the lack of payment to Dundalk that is the sort of 'power' clubs hold over association's that I am highlighting and how they can be held in check. While it may not expose all the wrong doing, it certainly would cast a shadow. Clubs need to and needed to, speak out on such matters at the time. Accepting being 'kept sweet' is not right imo. I suspect Dundalk were fortunate enough financially to accept part payment, a luxury few clubs could afford.

The intervention by the PAC was late in the day. Such attempts at accountability should have started a decade ago and not just by government.

No other national association would allow what happened ref Perth. There were attempts by some Welsh clubs to do similar, but they were shot down. Indeed when Waterford lost out on a UEFA spot, they should have really been arguing that case. You call it being draconian, most see it as ensuring a level playing field.

What makes you think Dundalk were happy with being kept sweet, that they accepted the FAI's bullyman payment plan. Or indeed where genesis of the story got put in view of journalists, where the story was confirmed cast iron legally. It is unlikely to be a coincidence though that Dundalk were in a position to call the shots, refusing the FAIs fudge, this may not have been the case 2013 - by 2019 at multi billion $ sports management company was involved and the club chairman didnt hold back in his comments.

[Mr_Parker]

No idea, but last year's only seems to have arrived in or around July as that's when this exchange took place.

Might be an apt time for more questions to be asked then.

[Mr_Parker]

What makes you think Dundalk were happy with being kept sweet, that they accepted the FAI's bullyman payment plan. Or indeed where genesis of the story got put in view of journalists, where the story was confirmed cast iron legally. It is unlikely to be a coincidence though that Dundalk were in a position to call the shots, refusing the FAIs fudge, this may not have been the case 2013 - by 2019 at multi billion $ sports management company was involved and the club chairman didnt hold back in his comments.

I didn't say they were happy, more so in a position where they could accept without significant impact. Had they been a club who were not in such a healthy position, I would expect them to be singing from the roof tops rather than just a small seed being sown.

[Hitman]

Do the FAI still own United Park and St. Colman's Park?

[Nesta99]

Do the FAI still own United Park and St. Colman's Park?

Yes and dont know. Are you suggesting an asset firesale and making clubs homeless - well if its for the greater good United Park is worth 12-20mil!