Potential ramifications for LOI after todays FAI accounts debacle.

[A N Mouse]

Important the club reps have some sort of cohesive approach to this, Government will not want the League to collapse but wont care enough to come up with any solutions. Put some realistic proposal (short term survival, longer term aspirational) to them and there is a chance they might back it but go in with the usual 'me fein' club approach or whinging about the FAI and they (the Government) will pretty soon lose interest.

At the time of lucid's proposal was there was some kind of ultimatium to the clubs about signing up to fai proposals - so another three years of abject neglect and mismanagement. I think the deadline for that was, somewhat conveniently, just before real extent of problems started coming out.

Does anyone know how much room for manevour the clubs have here? Have they already agreed to fai proposals? fixtures supposed to be out tomorrow. Could they temporarilly take back (mis)management of the league? While waiting for a white knight (Lucid/Quinn)

[Martinho II]

See top flight fixtures are coming out tmw but first division fixtures are to be held off till a later date. The mind boggles..

[marinobohs]

At the time of lucid's proposal was there was some kind of ultimatium to the clubs about signing up to fai proposals - so another three years of abject neglect and mismanagement. I think the deadline for that was, somewhat conveniently, just before real extent of problems started coming out.

Does anyone know how much room for manevour the clubs have here? Have they already agreed to fai proposals? fixtures supposed to be out tomorrow. Could they temporarilly take back (mis)management of the league? While waiting for a white knight (Lucid/Quinn)

I would presume, given what's come to light in FAI, any agreement would be pretty open to challenge (even if the FAI were to try and enforce it).More relevant question is how long would it take the clubs to get some form of alternative administration in place. I would imagine European places will be reallocated if we cant put something in place fairly sharpish. Possibility of UEFA putting in some temporary admin ? deferred start to season ?

[sbgawa]

The league will start on time and the Govt will bail out the FAI by taking over the stadium debt because Ross is nothing if not a shameless self promoter who realizes he has score a bit of an own goal yesterday and now that he has realized (better late then never) that if he doesn't sort things out the National team wont be able to play in the euros he wont let that amount of voters (fans) down.

If the Govt effectively buy 50% of the Aviva for 30m they will paint it as a rescue which we should be grateful for rather than an Asset strip.
I'm cynical and annoyed at all the pontificating , Lord Ross is a joke but at least the Garda Station in Stepaside is open

[Nesta99]

The league will start on time and the Govt will bail out the FAI by taking over the stadium debt because Ross is nothing if not a shameless self promoter who realizes he has score a bit of an own goal yesterday and now that he has realized (better late then never) that if he doesn't sort things out the National team wont be able to play in the euros he wont let that amount of voters (fans) down.

If the Govt effectively buy 50% of the Aviva for 30m they will paint it as a rescue which we should be grateful for rather than an Asset strip.
I'm cynical and annoyed at all the pontificating , Lord Ross is a joke but at least the Garda Station in Stepaside is open

I dont know the legalities or whether its possible, but if a salary and pension was signed off by individuals rather than a board then shouldnt that agreement be null and void. A good start to claiming back some positive public opinion would be to suspend any agreement including a severance package. It its rewarding corrupt behaviour at worst and serious incompetance at best. Ross is not untarnished by this so has a lot of work to do and especially if the fallout includes the collapse of LoI and all international sides being suspended. The minister wont come out of that looking too good even if his hands are tied so a significant extent. Timing is everything and I can actually see why the FAI are getting it difficult to appoint independant board members or recruiting a new CEO. What was said by the minister was a major own goal - it also would undermine any ongoing negotiations on refinancing debt. It seems that Shane Ross doesnt really grasp the full extent of the potential issues with UEFA/FIFA.

It wouldnt necessarily be a bad thing if the state had a stake in the National Stadium and got a return for the part ownership. That stake could be sold on and the IRFU would surely consider taking back full ownership earlier if the option was provided in any deal with the state. Further deepens the mess for the FAI with losing an asset and wastes any money already paid toward the project.

Again it might be naive on my behalf but its not as if we havent had plenty of phoenix organisations in the past. Surely it is possible for the league to set up their own company with backing from UEFA, transfer staff to admin the international team stuff within the same entity maybe in the interim period. Either way the FAI will need to rebrand if they dig out of the hole so Football Federation of Ireland by 2021 with a completely new board, ceo etc - honour some of the legacy debt but let the folded FAI honour its obligations on severance packages when it exists only on paper ie nothing there to honour certain 'obligations. Wishful thinking but getting a certain pound of flesh would help things immensely

[marinobohs]

I dont know the legalities or whether its possible, but if a salary and pension was signed off by individuals rather than a board then shouldnt that agreement be null and void. A good start to claiming back some positive public opinion would be to suspend any agreement including a severance package. It looks like it rewarding corrupt behaviour at worst and serious incompetance at best. Ross is not untarnished by this so has a lot o work to do and especially if the fallout includes the collapse of LoI and all international sides being suspened. The minister wont come out of that looking too good even if his hands are tied so a significant extent. Timing is everything and I can actually see why the FAI are getting it difficult to appoint independant board members or reruiting a new CEO. What was said by the minister was a major own goal - it also would undermine any ongoing negotiations on refinancing debt. It seems that Shane Ross doesnt really grasp the full extent of the potential issues with UEFA/FIFA.

It wouldnt necessarily be a bad thing if the state had a stake in the National Stadium and got a return for the part ownership. That stake could be sold on and the IRFU would surely consider taking back full ownership earlier if the option was provided in any deal with the state. Further deepens the mess for the FAI with losing an asset and wastes any money already paid toward the project.

Again it might be naive on my behalf but its not as if we havent had plenty of phoenix organisations in the past. Surely it is possible for the league to set up their own company with backing from UEFA, transfer staff to admin the international team stuff within the same entity maybe in the interim period. Either way the FAI will need to rebrand if they dig out of the whole so Football Federation of Ireland by 2021 with a completely new board, ceo etc - honour some of the legacy debt but let the folded FAI honour its obligations on severance packages when it exists only on paper ie nothing there to honour certain 'obligations. Wishful thinking but getting a certain pound of flesh would hep things immensely

Would love to see Delaneys 30 pieces of silver withheld but this is Ireland and executive screws ups are always dealt with by huge payoffs.

Notwithstanding any agreement with the FAI the League is a separate entity and should look to go it alone ASAP. Some interim arrangement will be needed for this season. With a mid/long term plan for the League.

The Govt may buy out the FAI Aviva share, especially now the IRFU bowed out. This should ease the financial pressure and assist FAI Nua put together a plan to deal with the rest of the debt.
Either way the FAI will be far too occupied to look after the "problem child" so they are going to need a new structure.

[ToberonaTornado]

Former Cork City chairman Jon O'Brien rattles a few about the LOI's future at the Oireachtas committee meeting.

https://www.facebook.com/sinnfein/videos/2741079502580644/?t=265

[Martinho II]

Former Cork City chairman Jon O'Brien rattles a few about the LOI's future at the Oireachtas committee meeting.

https://www.facebook.com/sinnfein/videos/2741079502580644/?t=265

OBrien was superb at this meeting. He would have made a fine minister for sport if he wasnt Sinn Fein. You know from his involvement with Foras his great knowledge of the background workings of the loi.

[forza]

https://www.rte.ie/news/2019/1229/1103426-fai-meeting-accounts/

More and more coming out....

[sbgawa]

Deloitte were paid a fortune for light touch audit and accepting managment representations and are now running for cover.
Predict zero consequences for them with the exception of a bit of bad publicity which given if was for covering up for management will probably do them nothing but good

[Dalymountrower]

Deloitte were paid a fortune for light touch audit and accepting managment representations and are now running for cover.
Predict zero consequences for them with the exception of a bit of bad publicity which given if was for covering up for management will probably do them nothing but good
Agreed.Zero consequences.,as always for the big 4/5 ofaccountancy and legal firms.
They have managed to weave themselves into every state and public body,Are making millions from the public purse with no accountability..Govt can't go after them as they have become co dependent.
FAI and Deloitte were a good fit.

[placid casual]

My worry is that after all is said and done, the League of Ireland will continue to be the last to benefit from any changes.
All we hear about is grassroots, grassroots, grassroots. don't forget that there are plenty of weeds that are growing amongst the grassroots and feeding them will only make them stronger.
To me this remains an organisation who's 1st,2nd & 3rd priority is the International team.
Its then a scrap between the LOI and the Schoolboy leagues(who proport to be the grassroots of the grassroots!) for whats left over.

If professional football is to ever take off in this country it needs the power of the schoolboy leagues to be greatly reduced, thus lessening their white slavery trade of 14 yr olds over to england.

[Nesta99]

One day there will be the realisation that a thriving LoI benefits priorities 1, 2 and 3. Lets hope sooner than later. As for the last sentence, while I agree, I doubt LoI teams will thumb their noses at potential transfer fees from their academy ranks. The difference being that ye'd hope that that money would be of significant amounts to build the league and snowball for the benefit of players and the international setup. Just maybe Kenny will have LoI value in mind and use influence to push a new regime in that direction. It is tiresome to hear Ross prattling on about protecting grassroots ad nauseum when grassroots were the powerbase of JD - are those individuals also part of his requirement for true reform of the FAI.....

In the same way that first teams at a LoI club get priority as the main source of income, I understand the FAI prioritising the senior mens international side. What I have never understood is the short term thinking in how the stock of international calibre players is grown. Like government its quick fix and about a next election not the longer term greater benefit

What could help to break the mould of old thinking and mentioned by SK is U21 qualification for the Olympics and the possibility of that team featuring young LoI talent. Yes he will still go to youth players based in England but not in the same exclusive manner as a Noel King....I hope! I dont think he will sell his soul now that he is the man in the job.

[refjohn]

What could help to break the mould of old thinking and mentioned by SK is U21 qualification for the Olympics and the possibility of that team featuring young LoI talent. Yes he will still go to youth players based in England but not in the same exclusive manner as a Noel King....I hope! I dont think he will sell his soul now that he is the man in the job.

Dont think Olympic Qualification is possible as according to FIFA, Germany, Spain, France and Romania are Europe's representatives.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Indo headline today reads like FAI have given government an ultimatum, to pay the requested 18 million or lose out on Euro qualification/hosting. Some neck if that's the case.

[ashbournebohs]

Indo headline today reads like FAI have given government an ultimatum, to pay the requested 18 million or lose out on Euro qualification/hosting. Some neck if that's the case.

Have you ever thought that it's the Indo in their headline..... that have given the government an ultimatum

[Nesta99]

Its interesting the additional Cabinet ministers have joined Ross in commenting on this the las 24hrs. In the context of an GE before the summer. Say we qualify in spring and then have to withdraw and Govt dont step in etc if it pans out before an election the the FAI may have a chance albeit a high risk strategy.

[sbgawa]

Ross is an absolute tosser but even he can work out that the ole ole ole brigade would be less likely to vote for him if he is the face of that.

[sbgawa]

What's so annoying is we will be made to feel like the govt have bailed us out. Our canoeing enthusiast Dublin city manager is spending 20+ million on a white water rafting centre for him and his mates

[D24Saint]

Indo headline today reads like FAI have given government an ultimatum, to pay the requested 18 million or lose out on Euro qualification/hosting. Some neck if that's the case.

Some Neck is their motto.

[Kingswood Rover]

Its interesting the additional Cabinet ministers have joined Ross in commenting on this the las 24hrs. In the context of an GE before the summer. Say we qualify in spring and then have to withdraw and Govt dont step in etc if it pans out before an election the the FAI may have a chance albeit a high risk strategy.
You could argue that funding the FAI to the tune of 18 million may loose them more votes than they may gain. The FAI need to die even Conway saying yesterday in an almost incredulous manner that apparently he is considered part of the old Guard and thats why he had to resign. The best thing the FAI can do now is voluntary liquidate itself in a planned manner parallel to a new body being set up which could then by mutual consent take over the governance, promotion and administration of football in the country.

[oldfan]

Ross is an absolute tosser but even he can work out that the ole ole ole brigade would be less likely to vote for him if he is the face of that.
No danger of the olè brigade putting their hands in their pockets?

[NeverFeltBetter]

Ha, yeah, Conway should get a GoFundMe started.

[sbgawa]

If the Dublin County Manager can spend 22 million of taxpayers money building a white water rafting center for his own hobby i don't buy the Govt cant fund football in Ireland

[NeverFeltBetter]

But the money the FAI is looking for wouldn't be to fund football, it would be to keep the association with its head just above water. Whatever about that whitewater rafting facility, the money being spent on it isn't a bailout of a failing (failed?) entity.

I'd see Ireland crash out of UEFA and FIFA before I'd agree to any taxpayer money being used to prop up the catastrophe that Delaney, Conway and co created.

[sbgawa]

The politicians keep talking about the FAI as if the old board and CEO are still there.
There is a new board and soon a new CEO.
Do we keep flagellating them for the sins of the people that came before them or do we accept where we are now and move towards funding football properly in this country (lets say to the same extent as greyhound racing maybe ??).
I do agree however that the admin and coaching elements of the FAI are grossly overstaffed.
Most of the coaches paid for by the FAI are simply doing the same jobs as the coaches at the junior clubs and in many cases less well.
The FAI with a proper CEO who wasn't interested in building an empire but on developing the game needs a far smaller staff.
A condition of taxpayer money going in would be to have a fit for purpose organisation.
The FA in England have 825 staff per 2018 accounts of which 97 are stadium and event management and 250 are running a hotel. https://www.statista.com/statistics/516272/fa-employees-on-a-monthly-average-uk/

Given the FAI dont have a hotel and only own 42.5% of the aviva a fair comparison would be 500 staff in the UK doing the job compared to 200 here.
A country with ten times the population and probably a 100 times the money.

I appreciate there is a sepearte premier league body and overall comparisons are complicated but do we really think that 200 people in the FAI is a reasonable number compared to 500 ish in the FA in England.
Sometimes bald stats are true ...like the one about John Delaney being the best paid CEO in Europe was defended by many on the bais of what a great job he was doing.

[pineapple stu]

The politicians keep talking about the FAI as if the old board and CEO are still there.
There is a new board and soon a new CEO.
Do we keep flagellating them for the sins of the people that came before them or do we accept where we are now and move towards funding football properly in this country (lets say to the same extent as greyhound racing maybe ??).
This is a good point I think. Though in fairness, I think Ross' stance has changed lately; he's been more receptive to the FAI. Conway still has to **** off of course, and that schoolboys stooge only recently left. I think the government will be more receptive again once Conway is gone.

But if Paul Cooke is asking for E18m to bail the FAI out, it should be listened to and not treated as just another audacious FAI request. Not his fault the FAI are where they are.

[EatYerGreens]

But the money the FAI is looking for wouldn't be to fund football, it would be to keep the association with its head just above water. Whatever about that whitewater rafting facility, the money being spent on it isn't a bailout of a failing (failed?) entity.

I'd see Ireland crash out of UEFA and FIFA before I'd agree to any taxpayer money being used to prop up the catastrophe that Delaney, Conway and co created.

Maybe Ireland not being allowed to play in a tournament is what it would take for the public to be as angry about this whole situation as they should be ? In which case - bring it on.

[EatYerGreens]

This is a good point I think. Though in fairness, I think Ross' stance has changed lately; he's been more receptive to the FAI. Conway still has to **** off of course, and that schoolboys stooge only recently left. I think the government will be more receptive again once Conway is gone.

But if Paul Cooke is asking for E18m to bail the FAI out, it should be listened to and not treated as just another audacious FAI request. Not his fault the FAI are where they are.

Any State bailout of the FAI should come with major strings attached. This is a once in a lifetime opportunity to redesign Irish football (at all levels) to make it better fit for purpose. It should be seized firmly by the government, who should be busy doing their homework about what changes are needed in the game. Then present the FAI with a list of everything that needs to change if they want the money to stay alive. Change or die.

[sbgawa]

The problem is who is to tell them what to do and what is the right thing to do anyway, people will have different views.
I think the next CEO appointment is massive, it needs to be someone from a commercial background not some civil service flunky or board member from the Leinster association or some crap like that.

Put a proper CEO in and tell him to sort it out , preferably from outside the country altogether.

[pineapple stu]

Yeah, I agree with that. Shane Ross isn't the one to tell the FAI how to run itself. He was quite happy with Delaney until the **** unavoidably hit the fan. He's smoking out the entire former board, and that's good enough for me I think.

There's also the question as to how much the government can interfere before FIFA step in and suspend the FAI. I don't think that's something we can afford really.

[sbgawa]

Yeah, I agree with that. Shane Ross isn't the one to tell the FAI how to run itself. He was quite happy with Delaney until the **** unavoidably hit the fan. He's smoking out the entire former board, and that's good enough for me I think.

There's also the question as to how much the government can interfere before FIFA step in and suspend the FAI. I don't think that's something we can afford really.

Yep the government cant appoint the CEO but id say UEFA are ****ed off enough at having to help out that they would allow a certain amount of "suggestions"
Would it be too much for the Government to say that the board must elect someone with no previous official position in Irish football, i.e from the wider business community?

[Zenith]

It'll be interesting to see how many former officials get hired back in as consultants once the furore dies down.

[EatYerGreens]

It'll be interesting to see how many former officials get hired back in as consultants once the furore dies down.

I'd be surprised if it was any to be fair. None of them had any idea what was going on (allegedly). So on what basis would they have anything worthwhile to offer ?

[Kingswood Rover]

It'll be interesting to see how many former officials get hired back in as consultants once the furore dies down.
less than none

[Zenith]

Really? Maybe I'm just being overly cynical then. I certainly hope so.

[Nesta99]

Good a place as any for this I think. Would be good to have a President with a LoI background I feel. Could be tough for Heraghty to get the backing of non LoI reps though must have been backed for the interim board. His background sounds more suitable currently, any thoughts (Sligo fans)?

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2020/0117/1108189-heraghty-mcananey-to-battle-for-fai-presidency/

[Martinho II]

Good a place as any for this I think. Would be good to have a President with a LoI background I feel. Could be tough for Heraghty to get the backing of non LoI reps though must have been backed for the interim board. His background sounds more suitable currently, any thoughts (Sligo fans)?

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2020/0117/1108189-heraghty-mcananey-to-battle-for-fai-presidency/

In fairness to Heraghty I have seen him regularly at any games that Longford Town play Sligo Rovers over the last decade.

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

Nice guy for sure but was a shock to a lot of people when he was made Chairman but reading his past work history he obviously has something about him

[Mr A]

He presented at the LOI gathering at Abbotstown and was very impressive. Would like to see him as president.

[SeanDMRooney]

Gerry McAnaney by 88 to 40

[Martinho II]

Gerry McAnaney by 88 to 40

pity wanted Heraghty to get it. any opinions on new president lads?

[SeanDMRooney]

Ex defence forces if that’s worth anything more concerning is the idea hinted at in Dan McDonnells piece is that it was a block vote by junior ranks agin to prominent a role for the national league

[Nesta99]

I thought it would be a tough nut to craic for Heraghty with the way non LoI clubs tend to not vote for LoI candidates. New president or not wasnt this guy on the council board of management in the past. Too close to the old guard for me!

[Martinho II]

I thought it would be a tough nut to craic for Heraghty with the way non LoI clubs tend to not vote for LoI candidates. New president or not wasnt this guy on the council board of management in the past. Too close to the old guard for me!

Yeah read the interview with McEleney in Sun today. He said that he was part of the council BOM in the past but was against the way FAI was run,

[redobit]

Disappointed that Martin Heraghty didnt get in. It definitely would have been Rovers loss but the LOI's gain thats for sure. Whether McAnaney will be any good awaits to be seen but it is too close to the old guard for my liking.

[gufct]

Yeah read the interview with McEleney in Sun today. He said that he was part of the council BOM in the past but was against the way FAI was run,

Never saw anything about him speaking out once in his 20 yrs on council.

[D24Saint]

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2020/0126/1111028-more-chaos-for-fai-as-loi-refs-frustration-escalates/

[Martinho II]

I wonder is this the reason why Brian Kerr is linked with a move back to the FAI to pacify the LOI contingent considering hes pally with McElaney for years. Didnt realise Kerr is 66/67 now! Where have the years gone?

[colonelwest]

I wonder is this the reason why Brian Kerr is linked with a move back to the FAI to pacify the LOI contingent considering hes pally with McElaney for years. Didnt realise Kerr is 66/67 now! Where have the years gone?

Not that I'm against Brian being back involved, in fact I'm the opposite and have wanted him to be back in some form for years but it would be moreso down to the fact that now Quinn and his 2 cohorts from the "Visionary Group" have basically completed a de facto coup of the FAI, BK will no doubt get back in either at board level or as the final independent director with him being part of that group too.

Personally I'm more worried about the level of ****e at committee level that's floating back to the top after getting flushed but the fact that the "Visionary Group" were light on actual ideas and plans outside of soundbites and platitudes and heavy on the silent backing from Red Strike still gives me cause for concern too.