new pope

[Green Tribe]

I'm pretty sure conscription to the Hitler youth was mandatory in 1940's Germany.

Ratzinger looks like he's dying already, poor chap.He wasn't the best candidate in my opinion, they should have gone for a more centralist figure.

yes and also eire06, as far as i know it began out as voluntary, but Hitler soon made it mandatory and parents had no choice, you cannot blame a young boy and compare him like that as some people are doing here. it is different being an adult and a child and being put in these situations :rolleyes:

[Neish]

Not sure about this Joseph Ritzinger(Pope Benidict XVI) guy, he will be far less liberal than Karol Wojtyla (Pope John Paul II.)

He is ment to be strongly opposed to:

Homosexuality
Women Preists
Marrige for Preists
Conterception

IMO these are the main problems facing the catholic church and they need to become ,more liberal on some if not all of the above if they want to discontinue the current trend with preists and citzens leaving the catholic church. And start bringing people back to the church

[Gareth]

St Malachys prophecy takes a step ever more closer......

So in 2008 it looks like we get to see the human face of Satan.

See you in 2020 for the end of the world....

[Troy.McClure]

Does the Catholic church as a whole not preach against homosexuality??? :rolleyes: It is not just him banging on about it!

Well they have been known to change thier mind about things in the past and I guess that some people were hoping that the church could have a more modern view on some issues, after-all, the world is not flat and does revolve around the sun!

[jofyisgod]

Not sure about this Joseph Ritzinger(Pope Benidict XVI) guy, he will be far less liberal than Karol Wojtyla (Pope John Paul II.)

He is ment to be strongly opposed to:

Homosexuality
Women Preists
Marrige for Preists
Conterception

IMO these are the main problems facing the catholic church and they need to become ,more liberal on some if not all of the above if they want to discontinue the current trend with preists and citzens leaving the catholic church. And start bringing people back to the church

Agreed 100%. I was very disappointed by this appointment, though not suprised. It's terrible to ay, but he should pass away within the decade, and hopefully the growing liberalism with the RC Church will come to the ofore for the next Papal election. I personally, am thinking of writing/e-mailing, whatever it takes, to try and get this Pope to see straight re:homosexuality, Africa, contraception. If enough Catholics did this, it could make a big difference. Congrats to the man though, all the same.

[strangeirish]

yes and also eire06, as far as i know it began out as voluntary, but Hitler soon made it mandatory and parents had no choice, you cannot blame a young boy and compare him like that as some people are doing here. it is different being an adult and a child and being put in these situations :rolleyes:

In his memoirs, Ratzinger wrote that he was enrolled in the Nazi youth movement against his will when he was 14 in 1941, when membership was compulsory. He said he was soon let out because of his studies for the priesthood.

Two years later he was drafted into a Nazi anti-aircraft unit as a helper, a common task for teenage boys too young to be soldiers. A year later he was released, only to be sent to the Austrian-Hungarian border to construct tank barriers.

He deserted the Germany army in April 1945, in the final weeks of the war in Europe, and returned to Traunstein — a risky move, since deserters were shot on the spot if caught, or publicly hanged as examples to others.

When he arrived home, U.S. soldiers took him prisoner and held him in a POW camp for several weeks. Upon his release, he re-entered the seminary.

[A face]

Its joseph ratzinger, gonna be called benedict XVI

I wonder is it benedict, called after the eggs ?? (http://www.sheridanrogers.com/porfolio/eggs_benedict.jpg) :eek:




:p

[Troy.McClure]

St Malachys prophecy takes a step ever more closer......

So in 2008 it looks like we get to see the human face of Satan.

See you in 2020 for the end of the world....

Ah dont worry, we're all going to die in the year 2000
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Oh wait! :rolleyes:

[Gareth]

Its interesting reading the brief biop above when you think we go from a Polish freedom fighter to a German forced-to-be-a-nazi-aide.

[dancinpants]

Gareth whats this St Malachy prophecy craic? Never heard of it meself.

[Closed Account 2]

Should have kept his original name IMO, nothing wrong with the name Joseph, was that not the name of Jesus's dad ? Changing it Benedict seems a bit pointless. Take some getting used to as well, being called by a different name etc, espcially when he's been called Joseph for 78 years.

[Partizan]

Me neither Dancin but like Nostradamus, its probably a load of old malarky by an 11th century Irish saint who was probably out of his tree on magic mushrooms picked by St Cambrenisis and cooked by St. Ignatius.

I think the Panzer's appointment is a sign by the Church that they do not want someone to emulate JP2 so soon. Its a stop gap as one of the posters said or a transition period. I think Herr Ratzinger's appointment will give the Church time to prepare to make the Great Leap into the 21st century.
His ultra-conservative right wing views on sensitive issues like homosexuality, contraception, women, abortion and Protestants is just shocking.

Ratzinger will be gone in a few years to be replaced by the 'anti-Christ' :eek:
MMMMMUUUUUUUUHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHRRRRRRR.

I can just imagine the Swiss Guards goose stepping. :D :D

flip!

[Gareth]

Basically Malachy predicted the popes since his life in 1100's. He predicted all of them and described there acts etc etc.

Best read a link rather than me waffle on about it.

http://www.bibleprobe.com/last10popes.htm

Interesting parallells.

[strangeirish]

Did he predict any lottery numbers?.................I'll have to look into that one ;)

[liam88]

Loads of debate going on it's seems so rather than reading through four pages i'll some up my LEGENDARY evening of watching the whole thing live but quoting the banner now hanging out of my window under the Papal flag (which incidentally I will be wearing into college tommorw),

LONG LIVE THE POPE!

and may John Paul the Great live on trhough our new Pope-divinly represented by God, and now my friends I will leave you with a wee song,

There are many many Priests my friend-and that is the truth,
There are many kings and queens upon this earth,
But i'll tell you one sing and i'll sing it to the roof,
There's only one Pope AND HE IS GOD ON EARTH!!!!!

Long live the Pope and goodnight!!! :D

[dortie]

and from what I've read about him, his views on homosexuality etc wouldn't have been out of place there at all.

So in this democratic world of free speech can others not have a differing opinion to you, the fact is many people dont agree with homosexuality just like many do....i for one dont and am not afraid to say it. And i couldnt give a feck if i get labelled homophobic.

[Partizan]

So in this democratic world of free speech can others not have a differing opinion to you, the fact is many people dont agree with homosexuality just like many do....i for one dont and am not afraid to say it. And i couldnt give a feck if i get labelled homophobic.

Bigotry is alive and well on the Bogside......and ye have the cheek to lambast Paisley ffs.

Homosexuality, abortion, divorce or advocating to treat women as human beings is not a sin. Ratzinger is a nasty piece of work. Try tell that to those who are dying of Aids in Africa or living in dire poverty across the world that the Holy Father really cares for them.,

Oh his record on paedeo priests isnt exactly astounding either.

I'll take Karl Marx and James Connolly any day please over any 'pope'.

[dortie]

and listen to the bible thumping catholic Provo bigot homophobic nationalist. :rolleyes:

Jeez, if it wasnt for the wee matter of the Macartney family I'd say Uncle Gerry would be stepping out onto the worshipping masses in St Peters and be on the fast track to sainthood. :D


Actually you got one thing right, Im catholic, but i stopped voting for the provisional movement about 7 years ago when they joined stormont.

As for the McCartney family, they are of no concern of mine.

So get back to reading your cobweb editions of marxism.

[Poor Student]

The former Cardinal Ratzinger has been talked up in very negative terms by the media for sometime. I honestly do not know what to expect from him. I must admit my own view had been warped by the media and I was surprised to see he didn't have cloven hooves and a tail when he lead Pope John Paul's funeral mass but in fact found him to be a normal human. I'm not going to make any wild uninformed comments about him. His previous job in guarding doctrinal orthodoxy was not his choice so his repatuation as the Panzer and enforcer may not be so accurate, he had a given job and he did it. We shall see how he does as pope. God bless him.

[Poor Student]

Gents, some of you are threading down contraversial and potentially bitter argumentative paths here. I suggest you take the sting out of this as when Adam sees it he's sure not to be impressed.

[dortie]

Bigotry is alive and well on the Bogside......and ye have the cheek to lambast Paisley ffs.

Homosexuality, abortion, divorce or advocating to treat women as human beings is not a sin. Ratzinger is a nasty piece of right-wing excrement. Try tell that to those who are dying of Aids in Africa or living in dire poverty across the world that the Holy Father really cares for them.,

Oh his record on paedeo priests isnt exactly astounding either.

I'll take Karl Marx, Vladimir Illich Ulyanov Lenin and James Connolly any day please over any 'pope'.

Dont understand were your coming from in terms of treating women as human beings, what the feck are you on about ? I dont blame Aids on the Catholic Church at all, i blame it on mans sexual activity, a disease caused and spread by man. As for poverty try looking deeper into the old soviet unions history for some classic examples.

[dancinpants]

Just out of interest - what exactly would people clamoring for a "liberal" pope, expect him to do?

[dortie]

Just out of interest - what exactly would people clamoring for a "liberal" pope, expect him to do?

Inform the Youth of today to go get as many sex partners as they can as long as they wear rubbers, invite women into the priesthood regardless of what was written in the bible, terminate any pregnancy that will interfere with your current lifestyle, inform same sex partners that what they are doing is morally correct and 'normal'.......oh and get married as many times a you like if you get bored :D

[crc]

I have a huge problem with people preaching against something completely normal as homosexuality.
You a bit of an uphill gardener aswell, Gerrit?

Those who criticise the Catholic Church for preaching against contraception in relatio to aids in Africa are being unnecessarily restrictive in their view of the Church. The Church also preaches against sex outside marriage. If you were so religiously obedient as to not use contraception, I think you probably wouldn't be having sex with someone other than your husband / wife!

Ratzinger has spoken out about the equality that is being afforded to homosexual acts in relation to heterosexual acts, as if the two are just options, like whether you buy a Toyota or a Nissan. Clearly heterosexual acts provide a greater function. This is not the same as discriminating against homosexuals, or even homosexual activity - simply recognising that pro-creation is a priority, over and above intimate relations with someone you love.

[Soper]

But what if there is no God, and all that faith and old doctrine was a waste?

[crc]

But what if there is no God, and all that faith and old doctrine was a waste?
But what if there is a God, and you go to hell? :D

[Fair_play_boy]

they said on Sky News that his new nickname among Romans would be Papa Ratzi .....Even if that is not true, it is a priceless invention, and so quick too! :D

[pete]

Good to see the Rc Church went with youth this time :eek:

The worldwide interest in the RC Church in the last few weeks has a lot of similarities about the interest in royalty - no bad words heard at first when discussing the legacy, lots of pomp & cerimony for funeral (substitite wedding for royals) & then an undemocractic "election" of the successor to the throne.

Of 115 off votes Europe had 53 votes! which is almost more than the combination of the rest of thw world. Italy had more than 20 votes! Forgive me for being cynical but the Vatican is just like a Parliament for political clergy.

:rolleyes:

The average person on the street knows nothing about the new Pope & i would suspect makes little difference to your average Catholic.

[Poor Student]

The average person on the street knows nothing about the new Pope & i would suspect makes little difference to your average Catholic.

Funnily enough I'd say Catholics have never known so much about the new pope prior to his election.

[Fair_play_boy]

Oh his record on paedeo priests isnt exactly astounding either.Source, please.

[dcfcsteve]

I have a huge problem with people preaching against something completely normal as homosexuality. This was, amongst the other few things I named, the problem I had with John Paul II and this was also why I hoped in vein to see a more progressive pope in control this time.

Gerrit - I abhorr the Catholic church's attitude on homosexuality (as well as similar views amongst many other churches/faiths), but get over it ! It wasn't just JP2 who pushed that line - sadly the overwhelming majority of the Catholic church at all levels is against homosexuality. JP2 was not to blame - it's a fundamnetal tenant of almost all Christian faiths/sects. Just look at the schisms within the Anglican church at the moment on this issue for proof.

A more progressive Pope was hardly going to pop out onto the balcony of St Peter's dressed like Elton John on a Hen-night and suddenly declare homosexuality as being next to Godliness. It's not something a Pope can single-handely do, and any that think they could wouldn't get within a square mile of the Holy See.

[dcfcsteve]

I'm no arch-defender of the Catholic church, but why, oh why, oh WHY has the entire anti-Catholic world bought into the idea that the church is solely or to a large extent responsible for the spread of Aids in Africa ?? It's ballax. Where's the evidence to support this ?

I'll give you some to argue the opposite. Firstly - as has been well stated before - if someone is so rigid in their Catholic faith as to doggedly follow the church's views on contraception then they should also likewise be following its views on abstinence and the lack of sex outside of marriage. To claim that the church has such a stranglehold upon people that they buy into one but not the other is just crazy.

Secondly, it's a fact that cultural reasons are a greater prohibitor towards condom use in Africa than the preachings of a single Christian church. Two key isses here : a) it is well noted that there is a general cultural antagonism towards condom use amongst males in African society in general. This is a cultural issue - not a religious one. b) - amongst certain widespread animist sects within Africa it is believed that if an AIDS victim has sex with a virgin, they are actually cured of the disease (it's the same belief that lies behind Muti killings - i.e. that you can absorb someone else's purity for yourself). In reality, these 2 factors (in particular, cultural antipathy towards condoms) have to-date had a greater impact upon the spread of AIDS than the teachings of the Catholic church. In certain specific cases, such as Rwanda, other issues have also had a greater impact than the church on the spread of AIDS - such as the widespread use of systematic rape as a method of oppression/torture during the Hutu/Tutsi's civil war/genocide.

Also - if you look at the 10 nations in the World with the highest AIDS infection rates (all in Africa) none of them are majority Catholic nations, and the ones with by far the highest infection rates (Zimbabwe and Botswana) have a miniscule Catholic proportion, as indeed does the country with the highest real number of AIDS sufferers in the world (South Africa) :

COUNTRY---INFECTION RATE----% OF CATHOLICS IN POPULATION
Zimbabwe------25.8 %--------------------------7.7 %
Botswana------25.0 %--------------------------4.9 %
Zambia---------19.0 %------------------------26.4 %
Malawi---------15.0 %------------------------19.6 %
Mozambique---- 14.2 %------------------------22.2 %
South Africa-----13.0 %-------------------------6.4 %
Rwanda----------12.7 %------------------------47.8 %
Kenya------------11.6 %------------------------23.3 %
Cen. African Rep--10.8 %------------------------23.0 %
Djibouti-----------10.3 %--------------------------1.3 %

Either every single Catholic alive in the above nations is HIV+ and working flat-out to spread it throughout the rest of the continent in the name of Rome, or the source of the problem is much, much more complex than one than can simply be attributed to Catholic teachings on contraception.

Whilst the Catholic Church/Pope's stance on condoms certainly won't be helping, the above figures show that it is ludicrously sloppy anti-Catholic rhetoric/journalism to blame the church for the spread of a disease that has much deeper cultural causes than the teachings of any single church could ever hope to compete with.

So can everyone PLEASE give it a rest with the bullsh!t that the church and/or the Pope is responsible to any significant degree for the spread of AIDS in Africa...

[Macy]

Don't see this pope being any better or worse than JPII tbh. No different to the last pope if he's right wing and conservative. More worrying would be his track record on theologians who go against his views.

The Bible is all about interpretation - The Anglican Church is willing to accept women priests, married priests, and is 50-50 on accepting Gay priests. Working off the same bible, gospel etc. Not too much difference, witnessed by the (Married) Anglican Priests who jumped ship to the Catholic Church and are now practising Catholic Priests with no problems.

The Nazi stuff is a bit of a red herring tbh, as as has been said, everyone had to join the Nazi Youth. It was on the radio this morning that his father had opposed the Nazi's, and the family had to move many times as things got too "hot".

On the Churches record on Aids/HIV. The missionaries do a hell of a lot of good work in Africa. IMO a lot of that is undone by their failure to support the use of condoms. They could be helping to change the culture of the male population through preaching/ teaching about both abstinence and contraception. The fact they don't leaves them culpable imo.

[dahamsta]

Any more off-topic garbage in this thread will result in bannings.

[Peadar]

Either every single Catholic alive in the above nations is HIV+ and working flat-out to spread it throughout the rest of the continent in the name of Rome, or the source of the problem is much, much more complex than one than can simply be attributed to Catholic teachings on contraception.


Some studies have cited poor medical practises as a key contributor to the problem. People being given transfusions of infected blood, infected utensils being used in surgery etc.

[dahamsta]

BTW, I don't think it's asking too much that people do a little basic research before posting on Foot.ie. There's far too much idle speculation goes on here. For example, if people had spent less than a minute scanning the Wikpedia article about Ratzinger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Benedict_XVI), the whole "Hitler Youth" discussion would never have happened. (Joining Hitler Youth was mandatory at the time.)

adam

[Lim till i die]

Ratzinger is an anti-homosexuality, anti-abortion far right man who spent two years serving in an anti aircraft battery and digging anti tank trenches for the Nazis on the western front. I also dont buy the desertion arguement as he deserted in May 1945 when the third reich was crumbling and would have been by no means on his own taking some big moral stand (more likely scared sh1tless of being captured by the Red Army). Although joining Hitler Youth was compulsory at the time you will find that more morally courageous objectors refused and went to Dachau rather than support pure evil

[sligoman]

Pope Benedict XVI has begun his first full day in office with a mass in the Sistine Chapel attended by the cardinals who elected him.He told them he felt a sense of inadequacy after being chosen to lead the world's 1.1 billion Catholics.

But he was helped by the belief his predecessor John Paul II was guiding him at the start of his papacy.

"I seem to feel (John Paul II's) strong hand holding mine," he said

"I seem to see his smiling eyes and hear him speaking to me at this moment, saying: 'Don't be afraid'."

He continued: "On one hand I have a sense of inadequacy and human turmoil at the responsibility entrusted to me.

"On the other hand, I feel living in me a deep gratitude to God who does not abandon his flock but guides them always."

At 78, Joseph Ratzinger is the oldest man to be elected Pope for three centuries, and the first German for a thousand years.

The hardline conservative - dubbed God's rottweiler - was elected just 25 hours after the conclave of 115 cardinals began.

He was greeted like a pop star when unveiled to around 100,000 pilgrims in St Peter's Square.

Pope Benedict - the 265th Pontiff - is expected to continue along similar lines to John Paul.

He is firmly opposed to contraception, the ordination of women priests and has described homosexuality as a "moral evil".

His election dismayed liberals within the Church hoping for a more progressive approach but it received a warm international welcome.

President Bush said the new Pope was "a man of great wisdom and knowledge".

In his native Germany, Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder called him a worthy successor to John Paul II.

He added: "That the new Pope comes from Germany, that is a great honour for our whole country."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
The election of Joseph Ratzinger has delighted Roman Catholic traditionalists - but liberals are dismayed.Benedict XVI takes a conservative views on issues such as contraception.He has made it clear in recent interviews that he will block debate on issues such as women priests, abortion and homosexuality.
Some Catholics fear the 78-year-old will divide his huge, worldwide flock.
Bernd Goehring, of the German ecumenical group Kirche von Untern, said: "We consider the election of Ratzinger as a catastrophe.
"It is very disappointing, even if it was predictable. We can expect no reform from him in the coming years."But friends and colleagues say the world is yet to see the warmer side of a man dubbed "the Panzer cardinal" and "Gods Rottweiler" in the Italian press.Cardinal Edward Egan of New York said: "You have to be slow to make a judgment. This is a really a wonderful, calm, thoughtful human being."Here are some of the things the 265th Pope has said:

:: On celibacy - "I bear witness to Jesus Christ, to the gospel, not only with words, but with this specific mode of existence, and I place my life in this form at his disposal".

:: On women's ordination - "The fact that the Church is convinced of not having the right to confer priestly ordination on women is now considered by some irreconcilable with the European Constitution".

:: On sex abuse scandals - "I am convinced that the constant pressure in the press of the sins of Catholic Priests, especially in the United States, is a planned campaign, especially as the percentage of these offences among priests is is not higher than in other categories, and perhaps it is even lower..."

:: On homosexuality - Although the particular inclination of the homosexual is not a sin, it is more or less a strong tendency ordered to an intrinsic moral evil, and thus the inclination itself must be seen as an objective disorder".

Got both from articles from www.sky.com/skynews

[pete]

:: On sex abuse scandals - "I am convinced that the constant pressure in the press of the sins of Catholic Priests, especially in the United States, is a planned campaign, especially as the percentage of these offences among priests is is not higher than in other categories, and perhaps it is even lower..."

What can you say to a comment like that. Is he trying to say its not so bad cos other people doing it too. Most of the media pressure on the RCC on sex abuse issues was because the role of priests in the community & what amounted to cover ups in the Church - would be the same for any other profession.

I don't see what difference one Pope makes over another even for deicated Catholics. How does he affect their lives?

[Jim Smith]

Although joining Hitler Youth was compulsory at the time you will find that more morally courageous objectors refused and went to Dachau rather than support pure evil
Its easy to take the moral high ground when there are two generations of history between you and the events in question. While the bravery of those who stood up to the Nazis and paid with their lives is without question it doesn't follow that those who did not were evil in themselves. The "It only takes good men to do nothing for evil to triumph..." lines and the like are easy to say when you are in no danger.

If you want to judge the man there is plenty of material from his adult life and his role in the church - the childhood Nazi stuff is just cheap, lazy journalism.

[Lim till i die]

Its easy to take the moral high ground when there are two generations of history between you and the events in question. .

In fairness I wasn't taking the high moral ground personally but you would think a man deemed great enough to be gods representative on earth would have had a lash at it.

[Éanna]

So in this democratic world of free speech can others not have a differing opinion to you, the fact is many people dont agree with homosexuality just like many do....i for one dont and am not afraid to say it. And i couldnt give a feck if i get labelled homophobic.
People are entitled to have whatever opinion they want. IMO what two consenting adults do in private is their business, not anyone else's, and anyone who goes around worrying about it or preaching about it has either got issues or has a fundamental problem with the rights of others.

[dortie]

anyone who goes around worrying about it or preaching about it has either got issues or has a fundamental problem with the rights of others.

The type of people with 'issues' is debatable, all depends if you believe men were designed for men, somehow i dont think so.

[Éanna]

all depends if you believe men were designed for men, somehow i dont think so.
It doesn't though- thats my point. I honestly couldn't care less. What people do, and who they do it with is their own busines, once its consensual. And I can't understand why people are in any way interested in other people's business- its just plain nosiness dressed up as morality.

[sadloserkid]

Ratzinger is a homophobic bigot. Anybody who labels homosexuality as evil is ignorant. Plain and simple. It's a genetic thing, people have no control over it, in fact if there is a God then the whole thing is his fault because even if you do have a problem with homosexuality it's basically a case of some flawed products coming off the assembly line.

The only positive thing about this appointment is that he's old and will probably die in the comparatively near future and the Catholic church will have the chance to make a truly brave appointment next time out.

[dortie]

Ratzinger is a homophobic bigot. Anybody who labels homosexuality as evil is ignorant. Plain and simple. It's a genetic thing, people have no control over it, in fact if there is a God then the whole thing is his fault because even if you do have a problem with homosexuality it's basically a case of some flawed products coming off the assembly line.

The only positive thing about this appointment is that he's old and will probably die in the comparatively near future and the Catholic church will have the chance to make a truly brave appointment next time out.

I must be ignorant then. Ignorant in your eyes anyway. Dont bother me though.

Fact is, the matter what marxists, atheists or church of England begrudgers say the church will not fudge on issues such as homosexuality, abortion or contraception, so really i wouldnt build your hopes up of the church diluting its doctrine to suit such parties (with a liberal pope- whatever the feck that means). The Pope does not have such powers as an individual anyway.

[dancinpants]

sadloserkid here is Ratzinger/Benny16's view on homosexuality:


Although the particular inclination of the homosexual person is not a sin, it is a more or less strong tendency ordered to an intrinsic moral evil, and thus the inclination itself must be seen as an objective disorder...

It is deplorable that homosexual persons have been and are the object of violent malice in speech or in action. Such treatment deserves condemnation from the Church's pastors wherever it occurs.
Letter to the Bishops, 1986, quoted in National Catholic Reporter

And on Gay Marriage:

Above all, we must have great respect for these people who also suffer and who want to find their own way of correct living. On the other hand, to create a legal form of a kind of homosexual marriage, in reality, does not help these people.
Interview with Italian newspaper La Repubblica, 2004

[sadloserkid]

Intrinsic moral evil? A load of bullsh1t in my opinion (and I'll be the first to admit that it's just my opinion).

I've always liked you Dortie and that hasn't changed much with anything that you've said in this thread.

But I do think homophobia is massively ignorant and I make no more apology for that than you do for being homophobic.

Each to their own and all but I wouldn't pull Ratzinger out of a fire because I honestly think that the world would be a better place without him. Happily it's an unlikely scenario.

I won't start on the catholic church though because I'd like for us to stay friends. ;)

[dancinpants]

It is deplorable that homosexual persons have been and are the object of violent malice in speech or in action. Such treatment deserves condemnation from the Church's pastors wherever it occurs.

Is that not a condemnation of HOMOPHOBIA?

[sadloserkid]

Is that not a condemnation of HOMOPHOBIA?

Dortie's in trouble so! :p