Given and penalties

[OwlsFan]

so not only is one of our greatest goalscorers ever lambasted on this forum also one our greatest if not the greatest goalkeeper we have ever produced too, why do you people bother at all ????? :confused: :confused:

Lambasted is a bit strong. Are our players on such pedelstals that they cannot be criticised if they have a weakeness ? Are we to be like the 3 monkeys: Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil. No one here has said that Given isn't a good keeper but he has been hopeless over the last 2 years at penalties. Until last Saturday, he has literally gone the wrong way for EVERYONE - starting in Korea :( Sure, a keeper shouldn't have much of a chance at penalties but lots of penos are saved, alas none by Shay for a long time now. To go the wrong way all the time must mean something but as I said before, maybe he's saving himself for a big one!

[Stuttgart88]

I think Given's record with penalties is worthy of critical remark. I was thinking the same as Owls Fan for ages & was glad when I saw this thread appear. As for the rest of his goalkeeping - it's exemplary. I wouldn't swap Shay for any 'keeper.

I remember Shay saving a penalty fro RVN at St. James' Park, from Zola in the Umbro Cup (!) & Bergkamp (as pointed out below).

Youngirish: you're a bit unfairt on Paddy Kenny. He aws injured in the Arsenal Shoot Out & it was obvious he could only dive to one side. Against West Ham in the previous round he saved tweo and got his hands to one other.

[Green Army Girl]

Fair enough Shay hasn’t the best penalty saving record but really what Ireland should be concentrating on is the players missing the penalties. Look at the Spain match come on Ian Harte during the match and then not to mention scoring 2 penalties and missing 3, what world class team does that.. I think a lot more training time should be spent practicing and saving penalties

[Karlos]

Look at the Spain match come on Ian Harte during the match

I'm by no means Ian Harte's biggest fan but his record from the spot for Ireland is quite good with the exception of the Spain kick. I haven't forgotten that had he not slotted a pressure kick at home against Iran at Landowne we possibly wouldn't have even been at the world cup in the first place. Likewise with Given, I can forgive his penalty performance at the world cup on the back of his fantastic performance home and away against Iran that actually got us there.


On a side note on penalties - I know the Arsenal players practise penalties by telling the keeper which side they are going to shoot. The thinking is that If you manage to be successful each time when the goalkeeper knows where you are going to put it, your chances of scoring greatly increases when he doesn't know. It's a practise i also use when I coach penalties with my teams and it works well.

[Peadar]

Look at the Spain match come on Ian Harte during the match

The lad was injured and shouldn't have even been on the pitch.
He had to get injections for the pain as far as I remember.

[Green Army Girl]

The lad was injured and shouldn't have even been on the pitch.
He had to get injections for the pain as far as I remember.


I understand that but if your not feeling up to it dont take a penalty and i thought it was cramp.

[Stuttgart88]

i thought it was cramp.

Grainne (now that you've revealed your name!), I think Harte was complaining of a trapped nerve in his foot. He claimed to being unable to feel anything with his left foot. As you say though, it prompts the question: should he have taken it then?

Of the 4 penalties we missed that day only Harte's and Holland's were hit with any degree of conviction. Harte took exactly the same penalty again in the Faroes and it was nearly saved. He took the same penalty against Turkey and the result looked emphatic.

But Connolly & Kilbane's kicks were pathetic to say the least.

[Green Army Girl]

[QUOTE=Stuttgart88]Grainne (now that you've revealed your name!), I think Harte was complaining of a trapped nerve in his....

My secret is out but wat a name only messing. Totally agree with you there penalties from the other two Kilbane and Connolly were brutal its obvious that penalty shoot outs arent high on the list in training but with a team like Ireland who dont win by more than 1 or 2 goals maybe we should be practising them alot more as draws are a favourite of ours.

from ??? ;)

[OwlsFan]

...but as I said before, maybe he's saving himself for a big one!

At last and vital as well!! Interesting to hear him say after the game that he had studied penalties by their penalty taker. Also he didn't go as early as he has for previous penalties. Great save.

Will that be the save that gets us through to the play offs ?

[jbyrne]

Will that be the save that gets us through to the play offs ?

hopefully! world class pen save from a world class keeper

[Kingdom]

At last and vital as well!! Interesting to hear him say after the game that he had studied penalties by their penalty taker. Also he didn't go as early as he has for previous penalties. Great save.

Will that be the save that gets us through to the play offs ?


He he he! Thought exactly the same thing myself. And I'm sure loads of others will say this too, but I really felt he was going to save it. Okkas arguing with Constantinou set the tone and Shay almost alluded to this after the game. It was a good save and now hopefully it will be one that puts us on the road to Germany!!!

[Stuttgart88]

but I really felt he was going to save it.
Despite sharing Owls Fan's original view on Given & penalties, I actually felt he was fgoing to save it too. You know the way you just get that feeling?

[OwlsFan]

Did you notice with the last 2 or 3 penos against Newcastle, Given had been getting closer on each occasion to saving it? Thankfully we were the lucky recipients of some hard work I suspect he has put in to this aspect of his game.

[tetsujin1979]

I was sitting with my brother and my Newcastle-following mate watching the game, when Okkas placed the ball, I said "you know, I've never seen Given save a penalty".... He picked the right time to do it!!

[Adrianovic]

I was another one who seemed to get the saving vibe.

Once the ref messed around with the re-spot, I felt Given was going to get it.

It was some save though, not a badly struck penalty by any means. Would have probably gone in 9/10 times, but luckily for us, not this time!

Ade

[elroy]

Despite sharing Owls Fan's original view on Given & penalties, I actually felt he was fgoing to save it too. You know the way you just get that feeling?


I was the opposite to be honest, never seen him really get near one so didnt hold much hope, great save in fairness.
God knows we prob wouldve lost if they'd scored that.

[OwlsFan]

Back to his old ways again last night against Wigan:( . He had moved to his left well before Connolly struck it gently to his right.

Usual fantastic saves otherwise though. I think Wigan identified a perceived weakeness in his coming for high balls from corners. They stuck a player right on him and then swung the corners right on to the six yard box.

I wonder where Newcastle would be without him ? Close to relegation I suspect.

Alan Mahon played ok in the game - not afraid to shoot anyway. Where is grumpy Carr these days - not that I care now that he's retired.

[Stuttgart88]

I was thinking of this thread watching the game. Shay just jumped out of the way, way too early. It was a poor enough penalty only half-way between the middle and the post. Similar to Connolly's pathetic effort in Suwon. It just looked more convincing because Shay was already on the ground about 8 feet away!

If I was a keeper I'd always dive to the right for the type of run up that Connolly took last night (Bonner / Timofte). For that type of run it's easier to put the ball closer to the keeper's left hand post than his right, so even if the keeper guesses correctly a kick to that side should still go in. On a pure percentage basis, I think a keeper is more likely to save going to his right, or rather it's more likely to be a poor kick that side than the other. Clear as mud!

[geysir]

If you were a keeper and you always dived to your right, the penalty taker would hit it to your ?? :)

[Stuttgart88]

I actually WAS a keeper for about 8 yrs! What I said was "for THAT type of run"! i.e., Timofte style.

I had a pretty good shoot out record I'll have you know! Got frustrtaed in nets so dropped a division to play centre-back for the twilight of my career.

[geysir]

My goalkeeping career was also frustrating, in one match practice the pe teacher tried to send me the wrong way and I saved it, to the cheers of the rest of the team, then the vindictive xxxx dropped me. Just as well, its the pits to be a goalkeeper in soccer.

[OwlsFan]

You can put that down to Tubby Morton of Melchester Rovers fame (Roy Race's team). As you can guess by his name he was the fat bast**d of the team and so was in goal. So during my youth, we always stuck the fat guy in goal thinking it would be harder to get the ball past him. Thankless task that of goalie - amazing more aren't hurt.

[OwlsFan]

I see Newcastle conceded a peno at the weekend. Didn't see it. What way did Shay go ?

[Stuttgart88]

The wrong way!

Harewood took the same run up as Connolly (refer to a few posts earlier) and put it to Shay's left. Shay took my advice and dived right. :) Still, I stand by my advice. It was an excellent penalty and even if Shay had guessed correctly Harewood would still have scored.

[geysir]

I didn't see it, as long as he keeps not saving them for Newcastle does that not increase his chances of saving another one for Ireland?

[Stuttgart88]

Do you want a fully rigorous mathematical analysis or just a hunch?

My hunch is that he'll continue to dive out of the way early.

Theoretically each penalty is an independent event. But you could argue that each previous penalty will teach him something that he can apply to the next. That's about as far as I can go. I always struggled with probability theory.