Given and penalties

[tricky_colour]

http://www.liverpool-mad.co.uk/news/loadnews.asp?cid=TMNW&id=222739


Liverpool's players will not be practising penalties as part of their preperations for Wednesday's European Cup final.


"If the game with AC Milan is all square after extra-time it will be decided on penalties but Rafa Benitez believes that practising for a penalty shoot-out is a pointless exercise.

"I don't believe in practising penalties," he said. "In my opinion, the most important factor is how you feel on the day, not if you look good taking a penalty in training.

"You can look the best in practise, but then when you're in front of all the people inside the stadium, you may get afraid.

"I don't go into a game like this thinking it's going to go to penalties. I only think about winning the match. Maybe if we get to extra time, then I'll consider who takes penalties." "


Wow!! What information is he going to base his decision on? Names out of a hat?

Might be a bit of kidology.

I guess it's a bit lilke practising getting yourself sacked, it's never the same as the real thing :D

[tricky_colour]

Oh and if you want to recreate the pressure a £10,000 fine for every one
missed works wonders. :D :D

[jimbob117]

Wow!! What information is he going to base his decision on? Names out of a hat?

Might be a bit of kidology.

I guess it's a bit lilke practising getting yourself sacked, it's never the same as the real thing :D

I suppose you'd know more than benitez. I mean it looks like you spent the last 3 hours scouring the web for teams who lost penalty shoot outs who had said prevoiusly they werent worth practicing. Im sure u could do the same and empahisise teams that did practice who lost against teams that didnt but quite frankly, i amnt arsed. My opinion remains the same, worth a practise but those who can handle the pressure will decide who scores, end of story

[tricky_colour]

I just put up the first few links which came from "practising penalties" thats
all, it didnt seem to show many/any where a team didn't practise penalties
and won although I am sure that does happen.

And how do you know who can handle the pressure if you don't find out in practise? Footballers abilites don't necessarilly match their confidence.

You are entitled to you opinion of course, but I like back mine up with some evidence.

[jimbob117]

my evidence is my own experience!!!

[tricky_colour]

Evidently!

[OwlsFan]

http://forums.soccerfansnetwork.com/showthread.php?mode=hybrid&t=10602 So, for all his critics, Keane's own verdict has ultimately proved spot-on as his words have come back to haunt the Irish"

The only Irish player I can remember missing a peno, apart from Harte in Korea, was, yes you've guessed it, Roy Keane against Romania.

[Donal81]

Penalties are clearly worth practising. There's no harm whatsoever in practising how to place it from the spot, how to keep it down, place it high, what to see in the goalkeeper, basics like that.

I don't see how there's any science to it, though. A player can practice for a month on how to place it perfectly in the bottom right corner. He's confident, he's played a great game, and he's not going to bottle it now. He walks up in the right frame of mind, looks at the goalkeeper, places the ball on the spot and does everything right. Then the keeper saves it because he guesses right.

Remember Mendieta's penalty against us? That was a shocking penalty, which was mis-hit. Given was inches from saving it. If he he dived a split second later, would he have saved it? Pure luck got Mendieta's penalty, not practice.

Remember Cascarino's penalty against Romania? If he'd been practising penalties, it didn't show as he scuffed the turf when he hit it and it went in under Lung's body. A bit of luck and nerve got him through.

Practice away, no harm in it, a lot of benefits to it, but it's not an absolute science, surely.

[OwlsFan]

I think I remember that as I was there :( As you well know I was talking about other than in peno shoot outs.

I agree that it is nonsense not to practice penos. Then why bother practicising free kicks or anything either since they are all different in the hot house pressure of a game ?

[Donal81]

I think I remember that as I was there :( As you well know I was talking about other than in peno shoot outs.

I agree that it is nonsense not to practice penos. Then why bother practicising free kicks or anything either since they are all different in the hot house pressure of a game ?

I don't think anyone suggested not practising penalties. Jimbob suggested that nerve had as much to do with it as practice and that practising free-kicks is very, very different from practising penalties in terms of the end result.

If you don't practice free-kicks at all, you've got no structure at all during a deadball situation. It's not guaranteed that you're going to score or miss but it's guaranteed that your players will be where they were on the training ground. Penalties are obviously different in this regard. You can practice your kick all night but a million things can go wrong with a direct consequence - you miss. Ian Harte - acknowledge by all here, even those who think he's brutal (such as myself), to be top class at a deadball - missed his penalty miserably against Spain. His confidence was shot, he was playing terribly, he was up against Casillas. I'm sure he practices all the time on dead ball situations. What happened him there, you know?

[tricky_colour]

I think I remember that as I was there :( As you well know I was talking about other than in peno shoot outs.

I agree that it is nonsense not to practice penos. Then why bother practicising free kicks or anything either since they are all different in the hot house pressure of a game ?

Thats just it isnt it, why go golfers and snooker players spend hour after
hour practicing.

As for a 'top-player' scuffing his shot, well I guess he was too good to practice.
Yes everyone makes mistakes but practice helps minimise them.

[padjoe]

david seaman has a system for penalty shoot outs he used to go the same way three times. Schmeichel had a similar system. my own system is different. i watch the kickers eyes as he places the ball, then i wait and wait on the line and once he foot is within a millimetre of the ball i go. if the ball is a good height i have it.its all down to good reaction times and remembering the presure is on the kicker. i myself have a pretty good record from the spot kicks didnt concede for five years then it was broken and had a bad patch. very hard maybe if given just waited or developed a system he'd stop a penalty. i notice he leans to much on one leg when he stands for a penalty and hence he goes the wrong way. best penalty stopper in premiership at moment is jens lehman.

[tricky_colour]

Who's your money on if Liverpool - AC Milan goes to penalties?

Unpractised Liverpool have alreasy almost had one saved!!

Great comeback by LIverpool, I stopped watching at half-time as I though
game over (had radio on though).

Hope Liverpol go on to win, Finnan off bye the way and Liverpool grab 3!! :eek:

[padjoe]

Who's your money on if Liverpool - AC Milan goes to penalties?

Unpractised Liverpool have alreasy almost had one saved!!

Great comeback by LIverpool, I stopped watching at half-time as I though
game over (had radio on though).

Hope Liverpol go on to win, Finnan off bye the way and Liverpool grab 3!! :eek:

dudek is better than the milan keeper at penalties

[tricky_colour]

Of course there is probably one undisputable fact about practising
penalties and that is you might find out you are absolutely useless at
them and hence realise that playing for a draw is pointless.

Not much point finding out you can't take penalties when your in front of
a 50.000 crowd :D

[tricky_colour]

http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:QUrBvPczmoYJ:myliverpoolfc.org/red%2520news02.htm+AC+milan+penalties+practise&hl=en&start=1


Milan beat Juventus by penalties in the Champions League final two years ago after a very even game.

"I think the game against Liverpool will be more or less in the same line as that against Juve," admitted Ancelotti.

"It wouldn't surprise me if we had to go to the penalty shoot-out.

"And for this there is little you can do in terms of preparation even though we do practise penalties during training.

"But in a game, and especially in a final, it all has to be down to psychology and the conditions you face, so it's by no means easy."
--------------------------------------------------------------

I wonder what will happen if it goes to a shoot out?

Can you imagine Benitez saying after extra time

"Right lads how many of you have ever taken a penalty before?" :rolleyes:


Of course Liverpool will probably win on penalties anyway and me look stupid :D in which case I would be delighted!

[tricky_colour]

LOL Liverpool 2 milan 0 :o

[tricky_colour]

Liverpool win European cup on unpractised penalties :o

[Eirambler]

Liverpool win European cup on unpractised penalties :o


So, will ya shut up about practising them now, good man :)

I think Given could take a lot from Dudek's efforts tonight, it was legendary stuff and it definitely had an effect on the Milan players facing him

[Donal81]

Those Milan players had lost their bottle anyway. There was no conviction in the penalties they missed, it was as if they'd given up and accepted that Liverpool were the jammiest team in the universe. Fair play to the Pool.

[NeilMcD]

So, will ya shut up about practising them now, good man :)

I think Given could take a lot from Dudek's efforts tonight, it was legendary stuff and it definitely had an effect on the Milan players facing him


I think you are right Given should learn to cheat just like Dudek did and hope that the ref is not doing his job.

[ciarj]

But was Dudek cheating? Time for someone to dig up the rulebook here.

On another note, both penalty shootout winners in the last week (Arsenal and Liverpool) won their shootouts because they were the more positive side. United were ****ed at the weekend to be in that situation, as they had missed a few sitters. Same goes for Milan yesterday. Arsenal and Liverpool were delighted for the opportunity to tuck 5 away, and they duly obliged.

Since any professional worth his 10,000+ a week should be physically capable of sticking the ball in whatever corner he wants from 12 yards, it all comes down to psychology.

So I'd agree with manager's like Benitez and McCarthy when they say "I'll give the penos to whoever sticks his hand up". But I disagree that practicing penos is wasting time. Every squad player should know exactly where he's going to put it before the match starts. Then, the 5 most confident can sign up for the penos.

[NeilMcD]

The Keepr must stay on his line during the penalty shoot out before the ball is kicked by the attacking player. Dudek cleary encroached at leat 2 times.

[OwlsFan]

The Keepr must stay on his line during the penalty shoot out before the ball is kicked by the attacking player. Dudek cleary encroached at leat 2 times.

Yes, Dudek came off his line to save the 1st one. Not sure about the second. This is illegal.

The AC Milan players were beaten before they took them. They looked so down hearted. Maybe they should play practice matches, deliberately lose a 3 goal lead and then take penos :D

I'd say peno shoot outs are 40% technique, 40% psycological and 10% practice and 10% luck.

[Dotsy]

The Keepr must stay on his line during the penalty shoot out before the ball is kicked by the attacking player. Dudek cleary encroached at leat 2 times.

Happens all the time, always has done always will. If a keeper doesn't try to advance a few yards off his line more fool him. Are you absolutley sure that Dida stayed routed to his line until every Liverpool penalty taker had struck the ball. I thought the way Dudek made a point of walking up to each Milan player and handing him the ball was class. Not sure if it made any difference but who knows.

[NeilMcD]

It was more blatant for Pirlo's one I woudl have thought, he was nearly at his six yard one for that by the time he saved it. What was the ref doing , he only has one simple job to do and he should have had re takes on at least 2 penalties for Milan

[NeilMcD]

Happens all the time, always has done always will. If a keeper doesn't try to advance a few yards off his line more fool him. Are you absolutley sure that Dida stayed routed to his line until every Liverpool penalty taker had struck the ball. I thought the way Dudek made a point of walking up to each Milan player and handing him the ball was class. Not sure if it made any difference but who knows.



I noticed that, and it is frustrating for a player for the keeper to be in your face, again the ref should be giving the ball to the player rather than the keeper. I did not notice Dida coming off his line. I could not say for a fact that he didnt, but the one he saved from Riise he dove across his goal rather than encroaching. I think that Given should go the route of Dudek but it does not make it right that cheating can win you the European Cup.

[Dotsy]

I noticed that, and it is frustrating for a player for the keeper to be in your face, again the ref should be giving the ball to the player rather than the keeper. I did not notice Dida coming off his line. I could not say for a fact that he didnt, but the one he saved from Riise he dove across his goal rather than encroaching. I think that Given should go the route of Dudek but it does not make it right that cheating can win you the European Cup.

To be honest Neil I don't really see it as cheating. I will admit it's against the rules of the game but so is any form of fouling an opposition player and how many times does that happen in a match and the perpetrators aren't labelled cheats. You take your punishment and get on with the game. It's up to the ref to make the call.

What I would regard as cheating is players feigning injury and diving with the sole purpose of getting a free or worse conning the ref into sending off a player.

[NeilMcD]

Anytime you purposely break the rules it is cheating. What you haev said are forms of cheating but you cant include some and disregard others to suit your views.

[Dotsy]

Anytime you purposely break the rules it is cheating. What you haev said are forms of cheating but you cant include some and disregard others to suit your views.

Gattuso fouled Gerrard to concede a penalty last night. I don't accept that most people would call him a cheat. He broke the rules and his team was punished. If Dudek broke the rules last night it was up to the ref to punish him and I wouldn't have had a problem if he had ordered a retake or booked him.

I would maintain that in football labelling someone a cheat is reserved for someone who tries to con the ref. Dudek didn't try to con the ref IMO, he did what most keepers do when facing a penalty and didn't try to disguise the fact.

[NeilMcD]

If Gattuso did it on purpose he is a cheat. Therefore the ref was right to give a penalty which he did. Dudek also cheated, however the ref did not punish him, despite the fact that was the refs only job during the shoot out. YOu may not like the word but anybody he purposely breaks the rule is a cheat. Disguising the fact has nothing to do with it.


A murderer is someone who kills somebody regardless of whether they admit it or try to disguise it. A cheat is somebody is knowlingly breaks the rules on purpose.

[Dotsy]

If Gattuso did it on purpose he is a cheat. Therefore the ref was right to give a penalty which he did. Dudek also cheated, however the ref did not punish him, despite the fact that was the refs only job during the shoot out. YOu may not like the word but anybody he purposely breaks the rule is a cheat. Disguising the fact has nothing to do with it.


A murderer is someone who kills somebody regardless of whether they admit it or try to disguise it. A cheat is somebody is knowlingly breaks the rules on purpose.

I am sorry but I don't agree. In my opinion a cheat is someone who tries to hide that they have done something deceitful or broken the rules. However if you disagree with this interpretation that's fine by me but by your definition most people who have played the game have been cheats at some time or other.

[jimbob117]

NeilMcD, you wouldnt happen to be a milan fan would ya?

[NeilMcD]

Not at all, but I do think they are a good team to watch esp shevchenko and Kaka. But they are serial bottlers. Once against Deportivo is sloppy but to do it again is madness.

[jorge]

Not at all, but I do think they are a good team to watch esp shevchenko and Kaka. But they are serial bottlers. Once against Deportivo is sloppy but to do it again is madness.
if that happens again acelotti should get the sack

[OwlsFan]

It's becoming a really bad joke. For the first one (the dummy) Given flung himself to his right and was going the wrong way, for the first taken one he went the wrong way (hit up the middle) and for the last one (following advice from Clinton) he at least waited and went the right way for the first time in about 15 penalties, but couldn't save it :(

ANyone notice he didn't make a save the whole game ? The Israelis were that bad - one of those days. How we didn't collect 3 points I just don't know.

[Poor Student]

The 3rd attempt at the penalty was very saveable. It was only slightly to Given's right. Close enough to the centre. However you see as it is taken he has taken half a step to his left and by the time he reacts to the direction of the penalty he can't shake out of his leftward momentum fast enough to get it.

[brine3]

It reminded me of Mendieta's penalty in Suwon.

Also, Given needs to take few steps off the line, nobody seems to be cracking down on it so why not take advantage of it. Not that I'm encouraging goalkeepers to cheat of course... :D

[tricky_colour]

He went the right way and got a hand to a Henry penalty against
Arsenal. :eek:

He must have been following the advice I gave him here ;)

I will have to write part two:-
"How to stop the ball slipping through your fingers" :D

[Green Tribe]

i just watched that there tonight, almost!!!! He must have been practicing lately, good man, let's hope he is saving all shots by Monsieur Henry et co in september. good man shay, keep up the practice. :D

[OwlsFan]

Yes, progress. Given went the right way for Henry's penalty. Now, can he keep the "run" going and save one? Fingers crossed.

[tetsujin1979]

It was him and Parker that kept Newcastle in the game according to my Newcastle-following mates, Carr wasn't great and once Jenas went off it was backs to the wall stuff

[thejollyrodger]

I watched the peno being taken, and said oh no Given is going the right way :confused: :confused: he never does that, they he let it slip through his fingers. Thats the shay I know :D

[gustavo]

so not only is one of our greatest goalscorers ever lambasted on this forum also one our greatest if not the greatest goalkeeper we have ever produced too, why do you people bother at all ????? :confused: :confused:

[Kingdom]

Says it all really. I don't care what anyone says about goalkeepers and penalties, if I get a penalty in a match and I didn't score I'd shoot myself in the testicles. No excuse for a footballer not scoring from a penalty.

[Cowboy]

so not only is one of our greatest goalscorers ever lambasted on this forum also one our greatest if not the greatest goalkeeper we have ever produced too, why do you people bother at all ????? :confused: :confused:

Have to agree, Shay had an excellent game making several top class saves. The penalty was struck with plenty of power right in the corner, I hope he has as good a game when we come to play France

[brine3]

He once made a fantastic penalty save against Bergkamp. Probably one of the best penalty saves I have ever seen, to be honest.

[youngirish]

Shay is indeed a brilliant goalkeeper. Best in the premiership bar Cech in my opinion. If he was English that would be stated as common fact. But he is s***e at saving penos. Then again Paddy Kenny is worse - anyone see him against Arsenal in the shootout in the FA Cup last year? Muck.

[thejollyrodger]

anyone see him against Arsenal in the shootout in the FA Cup last year? Muck.

Fúcking hilarious IMO :D :D

[tetsujin1979]

Warnock doesn't keep sub keepers on the bench and it counted against him that time. Kenny was carrying a hip injury and couldn't dive at all to his right, so every Arsenal player shot straight down his right, knowing full well he wasn't going to save it. That game proved nothing about how good Kenny is at saving penalties.