Given and penalties

[OwlsFan]

What is it about Shay and penalties ? A superb shot stopper but can't get within an asses roar of a penalty. I was in Korea to see him go the wrong way for ALL 5 - not just fail to save but go the wrong way everytime. Since then I've watched with interest his performances at penos. He has gone the wrong way at almost everyone - I didn't see the two this weekend so can't comment except he obviously didn't save them. Take it as read I don't expect a keeper to save a peno but many do except our Shay.

Do he commit himself way too early or what ?

[Stuttgart88]

I've noticed the same thing & said it in the "Weekend's Irish" post earlier today! He really could use some training in this area.

I think he dives way too early. The only pennos I can remember him saving were against Van Nistelrooy and one against Zola years ago. Even a blind pig can find a truffle once in a while, as my boss reminds me.

Paddy Kenny looked more convincing in the shoot-out vs West Ham. He was injured in the Arsenal shoot-out.

Funny, but in the 1990 Scottish Cup Final Bonner conceded 8 out of 8 penalties against Aberdeen. 4 weeks later he let in the first 4 against Romania and became a legend after the next one. 13th time lucky I suppose.

[OwlsFan]

The interesting thing about the Bonner penos is that he went the right way for them all!!

[Stuttgart88]

That's right. Unfortunately Shay seems to go the wrong way for them all!

[Junior]

What is it about Shay and penalties ? A superb shot stopper but can't get within an asses roar of a penalty. I was in Korea to see him go the wrong way for ALL 5 - not just fail to save but go the wrong way everytime. Since then I've watched with interest his performances at penos. He has gone the wrong way at almost everyone - I didn't see the two this weekend so can't comment except he obviously didn't save them. Take it as read I don't expect a keeper to save a peno but many do except our Shay.

Do he commit himself way too early or what ?

Don't dispute the above, though the final peno against Spain, Mendietta's shot right down the middle, just hit a bobble that took it over Givens outstretched leg - what might have been heh?

[Colm55]

Doesn't bother me too much that he's a little dodgy on the pennos, in my opinion there is no excuse for a designated penno taker missing one, a top class striker of the ball should always put it into the bottom corner, no questions asked. Keepers should have no chance. Shays a legend, I have the highest confidence in the guy, he has saved us so many times in over his international career, to be honest nit picking at the chap is bad form.

[OwlsFan]

Not really nit picking. It is an important part of a keeper's skill. David Seaman used to save a rakeful and if Given was any better at them we would have had a berth in the last 16 in Jap/Kor. It is painful to watch - this mad leap to one side before the kicker has taken his shot.

Maybe he's saving a biggie for the game against France

[roboyle]

I was thinking about this when I was watching the highlights on the Premiership at the weekend (incidentally, the penalty kick awarded against Stephen Carr was never a foul, even then the 'challenge' was outside the box)... anyway, it's strange to see a keeper go the wrong way so many times - if Packie Bonnar had some technique he used when he played then he hasn't passed it on to Shay in training...
Ultimately penalties are part lottery, part football skill - a keeper should not take too much of the blame (nor for that matter, too much of the glory), when it comes to spot kicks. When you think that Nacho Novo of Rangers had never missed a penalty kick in professional football before arrving in Scotland and has now missed two this season, that's hardly his 'fault' nor the quality of the goalkeepers he faces but a bit of luck for the goalies and bad luck for him...

[brine3]

I remember Shay making an incredible save from a Bergkamp peno a few years back.

And how many penos did Packie stop for Ireland? I can only recall one off the top of my head.

[SÓC]

I always think keepers will save much much more penos if they stay until its hit.

That way they'll stop all the ones down the middle and the poorly hit other ones

[onenilgameover]

I'm glad this is being discussed. I've been thinking that about Shay for awhile and I only remember him once ever saving a peno. Its something that really has to be addressed if we are looking to do well in the world cup if we qualify. Its a huge part of the competition and the weakest part of Shay's game.

[tricky_colour]

Well if he goes the wrong way every time he may as well stand his ground,
at least he will get cheeky chips down the middle and will have an outside
chance of getting something if he waits untill the ball is struck.

I think if you wait it puts more pressure on the penalty taker and they may just aim it a little to close to the post 'to make sure'. I think you have to mix
it up a bit though, and make your mind up well in advance and stick to
your decision.

I guess a lot of it boils down to luck though.

My tip would be "Close your eyes untill the ball is struck" (might work?)

[OwlsFan]

I see Chelsea scored against Newcastle last w/e from the peno spot. Didn't see it. Did Given (assuming he was in goal) go the wrong way again ?

[Metrostars]

Would Kerr ever pull out Given in the 119th minute of a World Cup finals game when the score is even and throw on Kenny for the penos?
I saw a team in MLS do this a few years ago in the playoffs semis, sub goalie comes on and saves 2 penos and they win.

[McCanada]

Given dove to the right early, and Lampard ended up slipping and kicking right down the middle. Would have kicked it right down his throat if he stayed put. I can't see Kerr taking off Given for Kenny in a penalty kick situation. It would be a real slap in the face, and penalties are such that even I could get lucky and stop a couple.

Kenny has a bit of a reputation for stopping them, but had that bad hip which hindered him in the FA Cup against the Arse. The departed Kiely is probably the best Irish goalie for PK's, and isn't one Niall Quinn known for stopping teammates penalties' for money? Perhaps if Stuart Pierce was our manager instead of Mick in 2002, Quinner would have been donning the gloves....

[tetsujin1979]

Quinn once scored and saved a penalty in the same game! It was for Man City, think it was against Derby, the keeper got sent off, and a penalty was awarded. Quinn put on the gloves and promplty saved the spot kick!

[tricky_colour]

Would Kerr ever pull out Given in the 119th minute of a World Cup finals game when the score is even and throw on Kenny for the penos?
I saw a team in MLS do this a few years ago in the playoffs semis, sub goalie comes on and saves 2 penos and they win.

Seems a sensible idea if you have a keeper who is better at stopping
penalties I don't know if that is a the case but I am sure you can easilly
calculate a keepers 'success' ratio. There is probably a web site with
such statistics on somewhere, but I couldn't find it.

I did find this article about penalty taking though.

http://www.ingentaconnect.com/conten...00001/art00007

[BobtheDrog]

heard packie bonner say recently that he went the right way for the romanian penalties because the irish coaching staff had scouted the romanians and knew their tells so packie was able to go the right way, these days penalty taking has somewhat involved and its harder to judge where the tker is going to put the ball

[tricky_colour]

A lot of penalty taking probably comes down to psychology anyway,
if you put out the idea that you have the oppositions penalty taking well
researched its not going you do do you any harm is it? Whether you have
done your homework or not!!

Sending out the message that you have not done any preperation (and not
actually doing any preperation) is not a very good idea is it? It will leave
our players low on confidence and the opposition high on confidence and
confidence is half the battle.

Failing to prepare is preparing to fail, as they say.
(oops am I beginning to sound like Roy Keane in Saipan

[Donal81]

Keepers come in different guises. Oliver Kahn's trick is to make himself look enormous and is very difficult to beat one-on-one and from a decent distance as well. Casillas is brilliant up close, his shot-stopping instincts are excellent. Shay's a brilliant keeper and I think we forget how blessed we've been with decent keepers over the years.

Like Colm 55 said, any decent penalty taker shouldn't miss from 12 yards. I don't think there's too much Shay can do here as a lot of it surely comes down to guessing the right way and sticking to it.

True, though, I can't remember him saving a penalty. Then again, I can only remember Bonner saving one!