What could/should the FAI do for the league?

[marinobohs]

(Taking this from "What's right with the league?". Fits in here in terms of fixing the league.

If clubs have a sustainable budget in the First Division, isn't it down to clubs to operate within the same budget on promotion to the Premier Division.

I've heard comments that the FAI fudge on the league licensing criteria. Is this an obvious failure to be fixed? More stringent criteria on the granting of a Premier Division licence and clubs being more on board with that?


Yes, I know. Have they not turned a corner? They seem to have learned the lessons from the past.

Cork and Dundalk are operating on European money, shams are posting big losses and but for single person investment 'the project' would already be toast and Bohs are making minimal profit on an almost amateur playing basis.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

Cork and Dundalk are operating on European money, shams are posting big losses and but for single person investment 'the project' would already be toast and Bohs are making minimal profit on an almost amateur playing basis.

I really love how everyone knows our finances, its really great to have so much of this site in the know when it comes to Rovers finances

[sbgawa]

Hey RH it's what comes with being the biggest club in Ireland :)

[Ezeikial]

I really love how everyone knows our finances, its really great to have so much of this site in the know when it comes to Rovers finances

If you think marinobohs is incorrect then says so and tell us why

[Ezeikial]

Cork and Dundalk are operating on European money,

Hey - how do you know so much about our club's finances?

[Longfordian]

The FAI have released a statement proposing a €300k hardship fund for league clubs unable to pay their players. Oddly they’re proposing that the PFAI/Siptu put in €150k but the FAI have only “contacted” them and they haven’t actually agreed to it yet. I’d have thought it might be better to wait until they have agreed to it but maybe it’s a tactic to make the PFAI look bad if they don’t agree.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

If you think marinobohs is incorrect then says so and tell us why

I do because I very much doubt hes seen the clubs books that not obvious?


The FAI have released a statement proposing a €300k hardship fund for league clubs unable to pay their players. Oddly they’re proposing that the PFAI/Siptu put in €150k but the FAI have only “contacted” them and they haven’t actually agreed to it yet. I’d have thought it might be better to wait until they have agreed to it but maybe it’s a tactic to make the PFAI look bad if they don’t agree.

Where's the pfai going to get 150k from?

[gufct]

So contributions from the players goes into a fund to prop up clubs

[sbgawa]

I do because I very much doubt hes seen the clubs books that not obvious?



Where's the pfai going to get 150k from?

There buddy's in siptu.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

By the way just to back up my rovers not losing tonnes of money thing, as if i needed to but it was actually quite interesting, I went through their sponsorship and just including the prices given for the following sponsorships mascot,ball,player shirt,hording,matchday,programme,pepper along with rough gate receipts, european money,Burke money and programme sales I got to a figure of 1.8 million, so the rovers yearly budget for the whole club is 2 million meaning that from NB, other kit sponsors, functions in the suite, academy sponsorship, grants, tv money, likes of Celtic game,shop sales, and a few other things Rovers just need another 200k to break even and considering the NB deal could be worth that by itself I very much doubt the club is losing lots of money each year even accounting for my potential use of optimistic figures (which i didn't btw I accounted for not every matchball being sponsored, circa 2,600 average attendance, bundle deals,etc)

[legendz]

Easier said than done. Small clubs from smaller leagues have almost zero bargaining power with Uefa.

The big clubs from the big leagues hold all the cards. They want ALL the pie for themselves. And in recent years they're getting more and more of it - see the new rules this year allowing the top 4 sides from PL, Italy, Spain and Germany into the CL group stages automatically.

Uefa is scared ****less that the big clubs could decide at any minute to break away and set up their own competition so they're doing everything they can to placate them.
Obviously it's easier said than done. It doesn't mean the FAI and other similar associations can't work together and lobby for change. We should be hearing public noises from them. The UEFA president has to get his votes from somewhere.

The CL is nearly a lockout as you point out. The Europa League was to to appease leagues that were considering an Atlantic League or whatever was mooted. It's a bit removed from that with the CL 3rd placed teams parachuting in.

Again, this is the reality. given the whining from Mourinho and other managers over the number of games players play it is more likely the Champions League will be scaled back in terms of numbers that expanded, and the likelihood of smaller leagues getting more representation is extremely unlikely. to be fair UEFA has increased the money available for the Europa league but this was solely to 'buy off' the smaller League and to decrease their representation in the Champions League.
They increased the money alright but there's more to be done with the Europa League to achieve some fairness if at all possible.

[Longfordian]

A couple of good digs at the FAI and Delaney from the PFAI here, to give them their due. No surprise that this half formed idea is going downhill rapidly.

http://www.pfai.ie/news/pfa-ireland-statement

[Eminence Grise]

The FAI have released a statement proposing a €300k hardship fund for league clubs unable to pay their players. Oddly they’re proposing that the PFAI/Siptu put in €150k but the FAI have only “contacted” them and they haven’t actually agreed to it yet. I’d have thought it might be better to wait until they have agreed to it but maybe it’s a tactic to make the PFAI look bad if they don’t agree.

Sounds suspiciously like the FAI have finally decided on a pyramid scheme for the league....

[Nesta99]

It totally stinks of the FAI being full of spite for the PFAI and announcing something before speaking to other parties. Its like its set up to fail and the PFAI to be responsible for that as terms wont be acceptable or funding to the tune of 150k isnt available to meet their share. Its a put your money where your mouth is effort and without support from SIPTU or the European players union group assisting then it is players membership dues that will be funding the share with the potential to basically be getting their own contributions to the PFAI back. Ws the Bray escrow 100 or 300k, cant remember now but even if it was the lower figure and the general opinion that that has been spent already, when you add a second club in difficulty like in Limerick's case then the 300k would hardly stretch that far. Whats to stop a club offering top wages on a gamble of challenging hoping for bums on seats and then cant pay players by May as has happened and ye cant rely on licencing to ensure reasonable budget submissions. The proper solution to this chancer type owner /director at a football club that has behaved reclessly is to have them barred from being directors etc of any company.

[EatYerGreens]

A couple of good digs at the FAI and Delaney from the PFAI here, to give them their due. No surprise that this half formed idea is going downhill rapidly.

http://www.pfai.ie/news/pfa-ireland-statement

Fair play from the PFAI. Someone needs to stand up to the FAI and Delaney in public.

[Ezeikial]

I do because I very much doubt hes seen the clubs books that not obvious?


I get you brother. He probably hasn't seen our clubs books either yet still says we are operating on euro money. Outrageous. Obviously.

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

Are you saying that without the Euro money Dundalk would be able to afford their current wage bill?

[Ezeikial]

Are you saying that without the Euro money Dundalk would be able to afford their current wage bill?

No - I am mocking how fairly obvious realities are dismissed by "you haven't seen the accounts" quips

[RathfarnhamHoop]

No - I am mocking how fairly obvious realities are dismissed by "you haven't seen the accounts" quips

Except for the fact that by using known figures you can get that Rovers aren't losing money so unless the books, that I'd put money on nobody here having seen, show otherwise it isn't a fairly obvious reality"

[NeverFeltBetter]

What a bonkers plan by the FAI, to spend their time attempting to smear the PFAI in this fashion. They'd rather engage in petty point-scoring exercises than actually engage.

[nigel-harps1954]

Except for the fact that by using known figures you can get that Rovers aren't losing money so unless the books, that I'd put money on nobody here having seen, show otherwise it isn't a fairly obvious reality"

You realise that Rovers annual accounts are available to look at each year? They've shown massive losses the past few years.

[dundalkfc10]

You realise that Rovers annual accounts are available to look at each year? They've shown massive losses the past few years.

Course he didnt

[marinobohs]

I really love how everyone knows our finances, its really great to have so much of this site in the know when it comes to Rovers finances

Perhaps they simply look at Companies registration office records ? Or are you suggesting shams submitted false accounts ? in your own time.....;)

[Ashbohs]

Quote Originally Posted by RathfarnhamHoop View Post
Except for the fact that by using known figures you can get that Rovers aren't losing money so unless the books, that I'd put money on nobody here having seen, show otherwise it isn't a fairly obvious reality".

I really don't want to derail this thread into a typical us v them money ball nonsense thread but I'm staggered at the figures you are quoting RE your kit deals which was the point I made on this thread originally. For what it's worth rathfarnham hoop I accept the reasons why that idea is a non runner.
However I cannot believe the figures you are quoting. It seems you think you can throw 200k in from pepper into your budget to go towards your yearly turnover.
How many years was that deal signed for 3,4,5 as its hard to believe pepper money give 200k PA to SRFC.
Likewise with new balance . I'm sure it's top end ,money wise for LOI standards and that's brilliant but if you think it's 200k per year to sell Max 2/3 thousand jersies and they hand it over every year we'll someone at your club is smoking something.
Great deals don't get me wrong but you can really only break it down as per the yearly value.
That's the business of football.
Transfer fees rarely get paid in one installment either so it's something to be mindful of when talking up a clubs income.
And back to my point earlier it's clear it would be a non runner as you couldn't expect bigger clubs to forgo the good deals they have negotiated .

[marinobohs]

The FAI have released a statement proposing a €300k hardship fund for league clubs unable to pay their players. Oddly they’re proposing that the PFAI/Siptu put in €150k but the FAI have only “contacted” them and they haven’t actually agreed to it yet. I’d have thought it might be better to wait until they have agreed to it but maybe it’s a tactic to make the PFAI look bad if they don’t agree.

I can understand the logic behind the idea but lack of detail makes it impossible to evaluate. is it just carte blanche to clubs to 'over commit' knowing this fund will pick up the slack ? Will it beach UEFA rules (especially for teams in Europe) if wages are subsidized ? Bearing in mind some clubs are 'serial offenders' (bray and limerick currently) will there be a limit to the amount/ number of times a club can avail of this fund ? Will using this fund automatically terminate contracts or can players carry on playing for clubs while wages are paid/part paid by the fund ?
....but most importantly WHERE WILL THE MONEY COME FROM ?

Lots of questions (and that's off the top of my head). I hope somebody has thought this through and its not just 'doing something to be seen doing something'. Immediate reaction of the PFAI to the proposal is not good.

[marinobohs]

Quote Originally Posted by RathfarnhamHoop View Post
Except for the fact that by using known figures you can get that Rovers aren't losing money so unless the books, that I'd put money on nobody here having seen, show otherwise it isn't a fairly obvious reality".

I really don't want to derail this thread into a typical us v them money ball nonsense thread but I'm staggered at the figures you are quoting RE your kit deals which was the point I made on this thread originally. For what it's worth rathfarnham hoop I accept the reasons why that idea is a non runner.
However I cannot believe the figures you are quoting. It seems you think you can throw 200k in from pepper into your budget to go towards your yearly turnover.
How many years was that deal signed for 3,4,5 as its hard to believe pepper money give 200k PA to SRFC.
Likewise with new balance . I'm sure it's top end ,money wise for LOI standards and that's brilliant but if you think it's 200k per year to sell Max 2/3 thousand jersies and they hand it over every year we'll someone at your club is smoking something.
Great deals don't get me wrong but you can really only break it down as per the yearly value.
That's the business of football.
Transfer fees rarely get paid in one installment either so it's something to be mindful of when talking up a clubs income.
And back to my point earlier it's clear it would be a non runner as you couldn't expect bigger clubs to forgo the good deals they have negotiated .

No point in talking figures to the shams as apparently they rather believe their own bull**** than CRO figures that are in the public domain.
Your concept of central contracting does have merit an that are areas where it could be explored - advertising, I.T. (websites etc) possibly things like insurance or even purchases of supplies/stock.It might be of wider use if we were starting from a 'green field site' situation but we are clearly not and clubs would be loathe to give up any 'advantage' they currently enjoy.
Unfortunately it would take the near death of LOI before such radical thinking would be embraced.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

You realise that Rovers annual accounts are available to look at each year? They've shown massive losses the past few years.

I do and theyre all behind a pay wall no?

[RathfarnhamHoop]

Quote Originally Posted by RathfarnhamHoop View Post
Except for the fact that by using known figures you can get that Rovers aren't losing money so unless the books, that I'd put money on nobody here having seen, show otherwise it isn't a fairly obvious reality".

I really don't want to derail this thread into a typical us v them money ball nonsense thread but I'm staggered at the figures you are quoting RE your kit deals which was the point I made on this thread originally. For what it's worth rathfarnham hoop I accept the reasons why that idea is a non runner.
However I cannot believe the figures you are quoting. It seems you think you can throw 200k in from pepper into your budget to go towards your yearly turnover.
How many years was that deal signed for 3,4,5 as its hard to believe pepper money give 200k PA to SRFC.
Likewise with new balance . I'm sure it's top end ,money wise for LOI standards and that's brilliant but if you think it's 200k per year to sell Max 2/3 thousand jersies and they hand it over every year we'll someone at your club is smoking something.
Great deals don't get me wrong but you can really only break it down as per the yearly value.
That's the business of football.
Transfer fees rarely get paid in one installment either so it's something to be mindful of when talking up a clubs income.
And back to my point earlier it's clear it would be a non runner as you couldn't expect bigger clubs to forgo the good deals they have negotiated .

https://shamrockrovers.ie/2017/02/05/test-post-to-get-pagination/

Replied to wrong one

[Ezeikial]

"Up to 400,000" over 2 years. I hope none of that is dependent on actually winning something

[Ezeikial]

I do and theyre all behind a pay wall no?

Credit and debit cards must have reached Rathfarnham by now, no?

[RathfarnhamHoop]

Credit and debit cards must have reached Rathfarnham by now, no?

I know you're a special case due to your great interest in all things shamrock rovers but I'm not interested enough in other clubs finances to pay to see them and I can't see why anyone would be

[sbgawa]

Jeez lads would everyone relax it's been well known That the members of the club voted to borrow money from Ray Wilson and run at a loss while investing in the academy. The sale of Gavin bazunu is the first kid from the academy (assuming it happens) will be the first benefit financially from the academy investment but there will be more to come as well as many for our first team. The losses as FACT but they were planned and there is a big difference between that and the likes of bray / limerick or others.

[nigel-harps1954]

They've been showing huge losses in their accounts since well before the roadstone academy facilities were opened.

I don't choose to pay for these accounts, but there's plenty of journalists who did and covered it well enough this past few years.

[sbgawa]

Roadstone was a continuation of what had started elsewhere already but that tends to be forgotten. In the overall scheme of things plan is fine. We aren't in the dundalk scale of riches not even cork probably but there is great potential in the groundwork that has been done. Little point in discussing here though

[Ezeikial]

I know you're a special case due to your great interest in all things shamrock rovers but I'm not interested enough in other clubs finances to pay to see them and I can't see why anyone would be

So is your wager offer still valid?

Maybe I could bet you the modest CRO website costs?




that I'd put money on nobody here having seen, show otherwise it isn't a fairly obvious reality"

[Ezeikial]

Jeez lads would everyone relax it's been well known That the members of the club voted to borrow money from Ray Wilson and run at a loss while investing in the academy. .


Little point in discussing here though

Translation - please don't start that embarrassing discussion about Rovers finances again.

Fair enough!

[sbgawa]

Lol you've arrived in time to prove my point. :)
Start the music and the bear dances. The members are happy if you aren't that just makes it better :)

[jinxy lilywhite]

Jeez lads would everyone relax it's been well known That the members of the club voted to borrow money from Ray Wilson and run at a loss while investing in the academy. The sale of Gavin bazunu is the first kid from the academy (assuming it happens) will be the first benefit financially from the academy investment but there will be more to come as well as many for our first team. The losses as FACT but they were planned and there is a big difference between that and the likes of bray / limerick or others.

the boy is a human being and not a commodity.

Bray & Limerick have cashflow issues. The money coming in is not matching what is going out. and without a sugar daddy it is very difficult to stop the cycle
Rovers have a sugar daddy who is plugging their hole. But a day may soon come where he says enough is enough

[pateen]

Seems like the FAI didn't bother consulting the PFAI about their proposal either.
What a shower they are

https://www.balls.ie/football/pfai-fai-john-delaney-393605

[sbgawa]

the boy is a human being and not a commodity.

Bray & Limerick have cashflow issues. The money coming in is not matching what is going out. and without a sugar daddy it is very difficult to stop the cycle
Rovers have a sugar daddy who is plugging their hole. But a day may soon come where he says enough is enough

I think the club have made it very clear the boy is not a commodity paying for him to do his leaving in a private college and saying they want him to stay for at least another year.
On the sugar daddy but Ray Wilson and his father before him have been involved in the club for 50 years I don't see that changing anytime soon.

[EnzoScifo10]

It's one thing to be so up your own a r s e that the Fai think the Pfai should come up with 150k from the players to pay the players. The reality is that this is never going to happen. What is unreal is that they would put it in the media before they even have an answer back. How many people in a room actually made this decision and not 1 of them went, ahm... maybe we should wait until we get an answer. You would hope it was just 1 gob****e but more that likely it was a full board of idiots.

[marinobohs]

Translation - please don't start that embarrassing discussion about Rovers finances again.

Fair enough!

...But its OK for shams to comment on Dundalk, Cork or indeed any other clubs finances :rolleyes:

[marinobohs]

Lol you've arrived in time to prove my point. :)
Start the music and the bear dances. The members are happy if you aren't that just makes it better :)

are 'the members' still going around giving advice to other clubs on 'members owned clubs' or is it now '50% members owned clubs' ?

[Asterix]

are 'the members' still going around giving advice to other clubs on 'members owned clubs' or is it now '50% members owned clubs' ?

Are there not some underage coaches you should be worrying about?

[RathfarnhamHoop]

...But its OK for shams to comment on Dundalk, Cork or indeed any other clubs finances :rolleyes:

We dont tend to make a habit of that, at least definitely not to the extent supporters of other clubs. Suppose it come with the territory though so what you gonna do :)

[marinobohs]

We dont tend to make a habit of that, at least definitely not to the extent supporters of other clubs. Suppose it come with the territory though so what you gonna do :)

Maybe supporters of other clubs just read the papers or even access widely available accounts before posting on here about the subject :cool:.

[marinobohs]

Are there not some underage coaches you should be worrying about?

Hmmm, doubt shams want to get into the 'activities' of coaches :o

[RathfarnhamHoop]

Hmmm, doubt shams want to get into the 'activities' of coaches :o
Bohs seem to be making a habit of employing people that engage in these sorts of activities.


Maybe supporters of other clubs just read the papers or even access widely available accounts before posting on here about the subject :cool:.
If fans of other club want to pay money to look at our books then again comes with the territory, not something rovers fans make a habit of doing though. Far more interesting to look up than down though i suppose.

[marinobohs]

Bohs seem to be making a habit of employing people that engage in these sorts of activities.


If fans of other club want to pay money to look at our books then again comes with the territory, not something rovers fans make a habit of doing though. Far more interesting to look up than down though i suppose.

How's Eddie ? :rolleyes: shams just like lecturing other clubs on how they should be run but get all snowflake when their own club are discussed.

......still betting nobody saw shams accounts ?

[Ezeikial]

Lol you've arrived in time to prove my point. :)
Start the music and the bear dances. The members are happy if you aren't that just makes it better :)

Assuming that your post is directed my direction - let me clarify that I have made not any comments around being unhappy with Rovers finances or the contentment levels of "members",

I have laughed lots though at the delusion, ignorance or denial around the public availability of accounts - it's not exactly the 3rd secret of Fatima that RH seems to think it is