New owners at dundalk

[EatYerGreens]

Who cares when the owners are gazillionaires?

You will when the gazillionaires inevitably get bored and walk away some day - leaving your club saddled with contracts that it can't or won't honour.

[Nesta99]

You will when the gazillionaires inevitably get bored and walk away some day - leaving your club saddled with contracts that it can't or won't honour.

Have you been isolating for a bit EYG? If you are to believe everything thats said, including the wishful thinking, this has all come to pass already!! Some magical open ended future proofed hindsight revisionism thrown in there too, Sullen would be impressed!

[EatYerGreens]

Have you been isolating for a bit EYG? If you are to believe everything thats said, including the wishful thinking, this has all come to pass already!! Some magical open ended future proofed hindsight revisionism thrown in there too, Sullen would be impressed!

What a weird response.

It is inevitable that Peak 6 will walk away from Dundalk at some point. If you have proof that they will be its perpetual owners, then I'm all ears.

When they do - if they haven't sold it to owners with deep pockets (and let's face it, they don't really exist in Irish football) then there is a serious danger that some player contracts will cause a financial issue. This is all such obvious stuff that I'm surprised I'm having to explain it tbh.

[Nesta99]

What a weird response.

It is inevitable that Peak 6 will walk away from Dundalk at some point. If you have proof that they will be its perpetual owners, then I'm all ears.

But this is the same for every football club, how likely is anything perpetually owned by one company, individual etc? Abramovich will one day leave Chelsea inevitably, it wont make me mystic meg when it happens. Its simply just stating the obvious. Just for the sake of it, Is there proof that Peak6 will walk away leaving the club saddled with debt unable to honor contracts? Possible - yes, likely - more likely than not imo, definitely - who knows?

[EatYerGreens]

But this is the same for every football club, how likely is anything perpetually owned by one company, individual etc? Abramovich will one day leave Chelsea inevitably, it wont make me mystic meg when it happens. Its simply just stating the obvious. Just for the sake of it, Is there proof that Peak6 will walk away leaving the club saddled with debt unable to honor contracts? Possible - yes, likely - more likely than not imo, definitely - who knows?

Denial is not just a river in Egypt.

Good luck finding someone who will honour the Peak 6 contracts when they walk away. You're hardly Chelsea.

[pineapple stu]

In fairness, Dundalk should be able to manage it that if/when Peak6 walk away, the club has enough Euro cash left to cover the remaining contracts, but of course then players would have to be all released as contracts end and a brand new (cheap/crap) squad assembled.

I say "should be able" knowing full well that this is the League of Ireland of course...

[Nesta99]

Is there a river called Deflection? Is there an answer to the question? Brazen now that Derry are in a Billionaires club EYG, it'll be intereting see if ye can buy the clubs first title within the planned 3 years.

[DCWA]

Is there a river called Deflection? Is there an answer to the question? Brazen now that Derry are in a Billionaires club EYG, it'll be intereting see if ye can buy the clubs first title within the planned 3 years.

Wee buns, league is full of crap teams hasn’t been a good one since Kenny and Dundalk parted.

[EatYerGreens]

In fairness, Dundalk should be able to manage it that if/when Peak6 walk away, the club has enough Euro cash left to cover the remaining contracts, but of course then players would have to be all released as contracts end and a brand new (cheap/crap) squad assembled.

I say "should be able" knowing full well that this is the League of Ireland of course...

Why would Peak 6 walk away when there was cash in the bank ? It's when there isn't and they're expected to fill the gap that you need to worry about.

Or if they did want to bail when the club had cash in the bank, why wouldn't they take the cash with them? As expenses and/or Directors Loans repayments, for example. It's not as if they'll feel much compulsion towards the club, especially when they feel like they're getting abused by its fans.

Peak 6 will have no incentive to worry about how the club is left once they leave. If anything it would be in their interests for it to fail afterwards, so they can say 'we told you you needed us'. These guys aren't short on ego and self-importance.

[sbgawa]

If Peak 6 walk they will hand the club over for very little and ask for a percentage of future European money to pay back their investment IMO.

The club is worthless as are most clubs. Its only Asset of any value is the European Co-efficient which if they qualify for Europe gives them a good shout ay going a long way, allowing the club to fold kills that value.
Its why winning the cup this year is VERY important as not qualifying for Europe is basically like losing 1m of income as seeding will see DFC (probably) through a couple of rounds.
Getting relegated doesn't bare thinking about as its two seasons out of Europe minimum and falling coefficient every year.

[Nesta99]

Why would Peak 6 walk away when there was cash in the bank ? It's when there isn't and they're expected to fill the gap that you need to worry about.

Or if they did want to bail when the club had cash in the bank, why wouldn't they take the cash with them? As expenses and/or Directors Loans repayments, for example. It's not as if they'll feel much compulsion towards the club, especially when they feel like they're getting abused by its fans.

Peak 6 will have no incentive to worry about how the club is left once they leave. If anything it would be in their interests for it to fail afterwards, so they can say 'we told you you needed us'. These guys aren't short on ego and self-importance.

Is that a suggestion that they could stay if the circumstances are right?

[pineapple stu]

Why would Peak 6 walk away when there was cash in the bank ? It's when there isn't and they're expected to fill the gap that you need to worry about.

Or if they did want to bail when the club had cash in the bank, why wouldn't they take the cash with them? As expenses and/or Directors Loans repayments, for example.
You can't just take cash out of a company as "expenses". You could maybe invoice for consultancy or a management charge, but sure why not do that now? Is it even the most tax-efficient way?

Loan repayments - what loan? Is there one? I've never seen anything to indicate Peak6 have put a penny into the club, and licensing rules state you can't put investment in as a loan anyway.

Why would they walk when there's cash there? Easy - Dundalk with cash and the potential to be able to recover from the current shambles is a more valuable asset than Dundalk in the FD with the Revenue knocking at the door.

Of course that requires some self-awareness on Peak 6's part, and Wild Bill doesn't show the remotest sign - outwardly at least - of that. It probably won't happen, but the soft crash outcome I outlined is definitely possible at the moment.

[Asterix]

You can't just take cash out of a company as "expenses". You could maybe invoice for consultancy or a management charge, but sure why not do that now? Is it even the most tax-efficient way?

Loan repayments - what loan? Is there one? I've never seen anything to indicate Peak6 have put a penny into the club, and licensing rules state you can't put investment in as a loan anyway.

Why would they walk when there's cash there? Easy - Dundalk with cash and the potential to be able to recover from the current shambles is a more valuable asset than Dundalk in the FD with the Revenue knocking at the door.

Of course that requires some self-awareness on Peak 6's part, and Wild Bill doesn't show the remotest sign - outwardly at least - of that. It probably won't happen, but the soft crash outcome I outlined is definitely possible at the moment.

Their last accounts showed they had 3 million in the bank but owed 3.4 with 1.7 of that owed to peak6.

[pineapple stu]

That's weird. Why would you lend money to a company that has money? Maybe it was too cover Euro costs before the group stage prize money was paid. (The accounts are on their website (https://www.dundalkfc.com/accounts/), I've found)

Though tbh I hadn't realised that Dundalk only made E100k profit last year when reaching the EL group stages. In 2018 they lost 700k and in 2019 it was E1.2m. If they lose 1.2m again this year, they've no money left for next year.

So the point remains that in theory Peak could walk leaving enough Euro money to cover existing contracts, allowing a soft crash - except that it seems that actually that boat has already sailed.

There's a lot in that post that should terrify Dundalk fans tbh.

[sbgawa]

I'd say they put the money in to keep the show on the road before they qualified for GS.
Which in a way is a good indicator that they are prepared to do so again for next season.

[Nesta99]

That's weird. Why would you lend money to a company that has money? Maybe it was too cover Euro costs before the group stage prize money was paid. (The accounts are on their website (https://www.dundalkfc.com/accounts/), I've found)

Though tbh I hadn't realised that Dundalk only made E100k profit last year when reaching the EL group stages. In 2018 they lost 700k and in 2019 it was E1.2m. If they lose 1.2m again this year, they've no money left for next year.

So the point remains that in theory Peak could walk leaving enough Euro money to cover existing contracts, allowing a soft crash - except that it seems that actually that boat has already sailed.

There's a lot in that post that should terrify Dundalk fans tbh.

Very much so! There is no denying the potential catastrophe, but there is no obvious indicator of just pulling the plug - though it's possible that's was what Bill was threatening between the lines in his comments on fan support. There are other things ongoing that would indicate that its an empty threat. If a buyer steps up they will sell but in the mean time I dont think they will actively run down any 'value' there is to the club, though actively being involved has had that effect anyway. Again only time will tell.

[EatYerGreens]

That's weird. Why would you lend money to a company that has money? Maybe it was too cover Euro costs before the group stage prize money was paid. (The accounts are on their website (https://www.dundalkfc.com/accounts/), I've found)

Though tbh I hadn't realised that Dundalk only made E100k profit last year when reaching the EL group stages. In 2018 they lost 700k and in 2019 it was E1.2m. If they lose 1.2m again this year, they've no money left for next year.

So the point remains that in theory Peak could walk leaving enough Euro money to cover existing contracts, allowing a soft crash - except that it seems that actually that boat has already sailed.

There's a lot in that post that should terrify Dundalk fans tbh.

Most people would hold their hands up and say "My bad - I got all that wrong", but hey...

Peak 6 are an investment company/vehicle. They are involved in Dundalk entirely to make money. They had no emotional connection to either the club or the league/sport before they got involved, and don't appear to have developed much of one since either. They will do what is right for them, and it will revolve entirely around money. Because that's why they're involved with Dundalk.

A number of people said right from the very start that Peak 6's involvement would not be good for the club and would probably not end well. Precisely because they're in it for all the wrong reasons. We were just dismissed as being jealous etc at the time. There are a lot of chickens in the Dundalk area looking for somewhere they can come home to roost.

If Peak 6 were to leave, why would they do so with enough money left in the club to enable a soft crash ? They're in it to make money, so why would they not take as much of it out as they can get away with ?.

[Nesta99]

Most people would hold their hands up and say "My bad - I got all that wrong", but hey...

Peak 6 are an investment company/vehicle. They are involved in Dundalk entirely to make money. They had no emotional connection to either the club or the league/sport before they got involved, and don't appear to have developed much of one since either. They will do what is right for them, and it will revolve entirely around money. Because that's why they're involved with Dundalk.

A number of people said right from the very start that Peak 6's involvement would not be good for the club and would probably not end well. Precisely because they're in it for all the wrong reasons. We were just dismissed as being jealous etc at the time. There are a lot of chickens in the Dundalk area looking for somewhere they can come home to roost.

If Peak 6 were to leave, why would they do so with enough money left in the club to enable a soft crash ? They're in it to make money, so why would they not take as much of it out as they can get away with ?.

That's a huge generalisation!!! All you need to do is to look at Oriel Web and here from that time and you will see significant concern with most takng a wait and see approach, not dismissing things. Its has to be highlighted that this mess is not as a result of a lack of commitment financially by Peak 6, its the opposite, over financing a team that is sub standard. They, via Bill, made the mess and have pointed the finger of blame elsewhere. Whatever about LoI but a lot of football clubs have owners that invested to make money, its probably the most common goal for club owners. Benefactors are a lot less common.

What will pan out is that for as long as there isnt a buyer for the club, for Peak6's asking price, Peak6 will remain. They may slash budgets of course but a 50% cut in the playing budget wont be uncompetitive. As it happens there is concrete interest in buying the club from Peak6, it will of course depend on P6 expectations. If they simply wanted out they wont obstruct offloading the club with unreasonable demands.

[Martinho II]

That's a huge generalisation!!! All you need to do is to look at Oriel Web and here from that time and you will see significant concern with most takng a wait and see approach, not dismissing things. Its has to be highlighted that this mess is not as a result of a lack of commitment financially by Peak 6, its the opposite, over financing a team that is sub standard. They, via Bill, made the mess and have pointed the finger of blame elsewhere. Whatever about LoI but a lot of football clubs have owners that invested to make money, its probably the most common goal for club owners. Benefactors are a lot less common.

What will pan out is that for as long as there isnt a buyer for the club, for Peak6's asking price, Peak6 will remain. They may slash budgets of course but a 50% cut in the playing budget wont be uncompetitive. As it happens there is concrete interest in buying the club from Peak6, it will of course depend on P6 expectations. If they simply wanted out they wont obstruct offloading the club with unreasonable demands.

How realistic Nesta is this interest from dundalk fans involved in that company based in Newry?

[sadloserkid]

As it happens there is concrete interest in buying the club from Peak6, it will of course depend on P6 expectations. If they simply wanted out they wont obstruct offloading the club with unreasonable demands.

Wasn't it reported that POS valued Limerick at 2 or 3 million when he was 'trying' to sell the club? Club owners and unreasonable demands are a long way from being strangers.

[Nesta99]

How realistic Nesta is this interest from dundalk fans involved in that company based in Newry?

Its seems they have a role along with others including former owner.

[Nesta99]

Wasn't it reported that POS valued Limerick at 2 or 3 million when he was 'trying' to sell the club? Club owners and unreasonable demands are a long way from being strangers.

POS didnt want to go. If P6 do want out they may be open to being reasonable......

[sbgawa]

POS didnt want to go. If P6 do want out they may be open to being reasonable......

He hasnt gone , Limerick city are still playing in the under 17s and 19s and likely will be reapplying for a full licence next season

[Nesta99]

Oh I know he is still at Limerick fc, wouldnt sell, put unrealistic figures on the club to discurage interest and so Treaty happened. So he really didnt want to go. If P6 really want out of Dundalk then they have to be realistic eg not look for more than they spent buying the club as if they are leaving a club in a stronger position than when they bought in.

[sbgawa]

Don't want to drag the thread off topic but you'd have to wonder where POS is at
There cant be any value in LFC now as youd imagine if he got a licence for 2022 the old Limerick FC support would stick with Treaty at this stage

[pateen]

So what's this I read about a local consortium taking over

[Nesta99]

So what's this I read about a local consortium taking over

Depends on which rumour ye pick. Peak6 are splashing out on another club though....

This comment gave a bit of a laugh, like never heard this before

"As well as great opportunities, we hope PEAK6 can help bring Fosun Sports and Wolves knowledge, wisdom and learning, and support Fosun Sports to become a sports industry group with global influence and much success."

www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2021/1019/1254602-dundalk-owners-peak6-invest-in-wolves/

[EalingGreen]

Surprised no-one has mentioned this - anyone know whether there's anything in it?

A consortium linked to the ownership of Northern Irish side Glentoran are in pole position to take over the running of Dundalk from Peak6.

The controversial American owners have interest from three sources and a decision on the direction of the club is expected in the near future - possibly as early as the next week.

Local parties had come together to form a bid with tech firm Statsports in a group that included former owner Andy Connolly and other figures in the area.

Dubliner Dermot Usher, who recently stepped down as CEO of family business SONAS Bathrooms as part of a buyout of the company, has been looking at Dundalk as a possible investment project and had been in talks with the local group about going in together but they couldn't find common ground.

It's understood that Usher had subsequently looked at the idea of putting money into the club to work alongside Peak6 - but he would have control of the Irish operation.

However, the group with Northern Irish connections is now best placed to assume control of the club.

More here: https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/northern-irish-group-in-pole-position-to-take-over-dundalk-40991058.html?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=IN:Soccer&hConversionEventId=AQEAAZQF2gAmdjQwMDAwMDE3Yy1jYmI 5LTZmZDctOWRjMC0zYzQzNjkwN2UwNjHaACQ2OGUwMTBhZC01Y TI2LTRmNWYtMDAwMC0wMjFlZjNhMGJjYzfaACRhODQ4NWY1Mi0 5ZWRhLTQ3ZjYtYmY3ZC1hN2E3NmFhYzdjODUpBV1-HNLjNBRYkZmla-Q205YyGr1Mbggti3nWz3Mzyw

[Nesta99]

Its been alluded to, no shortage of comment on Orielweb and the controversial connections between the Glens main owner and a certain boxing promoter.

[EatYerGreens]

Is there not a Kinnehan angle to the Glentoran ownership ?

[EalingGreen]

Its been alluded to, no shortage of comment on Orielweb and the controversial connections between the Glens main owner and a certain boxing promoter.
Jesus H Christ. :eek:

[DCSIL]

Is there not a Kinnehan angle to the Glentoran ownership ?

Some Cork man (Not a Cork City fan, but more supports a Glasgow Club) Was desperately trying to push this on Twitter the other night. if it's Daniel Kinahan you mean.

[EatYerGreens]

Some Cork man (Not a Cork City fan, but more supports a Glasgow Club) Was desperately trying to push this on Twitter the other night. if it's Daniel Kinahan you mean.

Is there any truth behind it ? The story is that Glens' owner Ali Pour's finance comes from Kinehan, who is increasingly involved in football.

[DCSIL]

Is there any truth behind it ? The story is that Glens' owner Ali Pour's finance comes from Kinehan, who is increasingly involved in football.

He made his money in Nightclubs and such in South Wales, also in healthcare.

Think he may have been involved in Racing too. Recently set up a Boxing Company with the ex- CEO of Golden Boy (Who Jason Quigley is signed to)but not seen any mention of MTK(the company Kinahan is supposedly behind) in the Boxing press i've just had a look through.

[Nesta99]

Its not new news, Probellum is a merge between Shams Pour and the company formerly known as MTK/D Kinehan. A Panorama show later and MTK has gone through a few name changes since. Whether the football and boxing world can be separated in terms of people associated which each other I suppose is down to the individual, but there is is no denying that there are overlaps that I myself am not comfortable with at all. It has nothing to do with Glentoran, I think this could end up being a sports story that is far bigger than Glentoran or Dundalk depending on who buys the club. It will be uncomfortable for people at SKY, Everlast, even the two other big boxing stables that are not connected to MTK among others. For anyone interested look at registered trademarks eg Probellum in the UK, the companies involved, name changes, accounts, the top dog at MTK or whatever they are called now. There is a concerning infiltration in to legitimate sporting bodies with questionable finances. Footballer agency seems to be a newer project. I doubt there is need to link various bits 'n pieces, people can have a search themselves and make their minds up!

[ToberonaTornado]

https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/the-dna-in-dundalk-was-all-about-the-community-vinny-perth-pleas-with-peak6-to-sell-dundalk-to-right-people-41003666.html


'The DNA in Dundalk was all about the community' - Vinny Perth pleas with Peak6 to sell Dundalk to 'right people'

He means StatSports & Andy Connolly of course ...

[EatYerGreens]

https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/the-dna-in-dundalk-was-all-about-the-community-vinny-perth-pleas-with-peak6-to-sell-dundalk-to-right-people-41003666.html


'The DNA in Dundalk was all about the community' - Vinny Perth pleas with Peak6 to sell Dundalk to 'right people'

He means StatSports & Andy Connolly of course ...


Ironically if the club is all about the community, then surely that's who the club should be sold to.

[ToberonaTornado]

Ironically if the club is all about the community, then surely that's who the club should be sold to.

Give me a few mins there 'til i ring them.

[Nesta99]

Ironically if the club is all about the community, then surely that's who the club should be sold to.

I should be giving my house to a large homeless family, I will probably sell to those offering the highest bid and not care who they are as i wont be around there anymore.

[pineapple stu]

Who is to say selling the club to the community is necessarily the best for the community?

Worked out great for Bohs for example, who promptly sold their ground 17 times.

[Nesta99]

It wouldnt really be selling directly to the community but to business people from the community that there is a better chance of them being safe custodians of the club. Another option is to be a piece in a much bigger puzzle though we could be 'awash' with money!

[Bucket]

If your Patreon scheme and supporters clubs were added together, how many people would there be? Enough to buy the club or a majority stake in it?

[Nesta99]

If your Patreon scheme and supporters clubs were added together, how many people would there be? Enough to buy the club or a majority stake in it?

Not near enough! Annoyingly there wasnt any 'making hay when the sun shone' off the pitch and build numbers of both patreon and setting up of a supporters club, even club lotto and other fundraising let slide. For patreon I cant imagine people wanting to put money in to the current sh1t show so i doubr numbers are as good as the could be, and the supporters club has been reactive to a crisis rather than proactive in readiness of a crisis. There just didnt seem to be the will up until recently after a few attempts prior. Hopefully lessons learned on that. As it is even with the supporters club I reckon there will be clashes of personality and a very wide range of what is considered acceptable conduct for a representative of a group of fans and by extension the club. Though such things arent uncommon in any new group and will be ironed out in due course.

[ToberonaTornado]

Not even close to contributing anything to any takeover.

The 'club' run a Patreon that had about 320 in it when it started. Every penny made from it went/goes directly into the Peak6 coffers. There are currently 159 people in it still paying €15 per month for NOTHING!(or a mug/keyring and a programme per month which is basically nothing)

The DFC 1903 supporters club is a growing entity with over 400 supporters signed up so far and more looking to join. Membership is €24 pa - it was only founded about 6 months ago - Peak6 receive €0 from that.

Yup- the supporters club got going very late on when the shi* started hitting the fan but its there now for the long term.

[colonelwest]

Not even close to contributing anything to any takeover.

The 'club' run a Patreon that had about 320 in it when it started. Every penny made from it went/goes directly into the Peak6 coffers. There are currently 159 people in it still paying €15 per month for NOTHING!(or a mug/keyring and a programme per month which is basically nothing)

The DFC 1903 supporters club is a growing entity with over 400 supporters signed up so far and more looking to join. Membership is €24 pa - it was only founded about 6 months ago - Peak6 receive €0 from that.

Yup- the supporters club got going very late on when the shi* started hitting the fan but its there now for the long term.

To be fair the SC hasn't been without growing pains, plus a certain person who never met a microphone or camera they didn't like or commandeer maneuvering themselves into front row centre of course.

[Bucket]

Not even close to contributing anything to any takeover.

The 'club' run a Patreon that had about 320 in it when it started. Every penny made from it went/goes directly into the Peak6 coffers. There are currently 159 people in it still paying €15 per month for NOTHING!(or a mug/keyring and a programme per month which is basically nothing)

The DFC 1903 supporters club is a growing entity with over 400 supporters signed up so far and more looking to join. Membership is €24 pa - it was only founded about 6 months ago - Peak6 receive €0 from that.

Yup- the supporters club got going very late on when the shi* started hitting the fan but its there now for the long term.

400 members is a great start. If they were convinced to pay more than €2 a month, ye could buy small stakes in the club intermittently and have seats on the board. I don't think Galway Utd Co-Op has that many members but we have a billion-euro company backing us for the craic

[EatYerGreens]

I should be giving my house to a large homeless family, I will probably sell to those offering the highest bid and not care who they are as i wont be around there anymore.

Absolutely. But the key difference is that you're not making big claims about how tackling homelessness is part of your DNA :cool:

[EatYerGreens]

Who is to say selling the club to the community is necessarily the best for the community?

Worked out great for Bohs for example, who promptly sold their ground 17 times.

That would a big like saying democracy is a terrible idea because it saw Donald Trump elected.

Isn't Sligo supporter/community owned ?

[pineapple stu]

No, it would be like saying democracy isn't necessarily the best option. And there's an argument it isn't. I didn't mention anything about selling the club to the community being a terrible idea.

Many clubs are community owned. It works well with some, and not so well with others. It was a disaster at Stockport County and didn't work out great for Bury, for example.

Bottom line is it's too simplistic to say that selling the club to the community is necessarily the best option for the community. As Nesta says, local businessmen with experience of how to run a business could well be a better option. Particularly as, in Dundalk's case, a Supporters' Trust or similar has been quite slow to get off the ground.

[DCSIL]

Dan McDonnell on Twitter: the Local Consortium of Andy Connolly, Stat Sports and others have completed a deal to buy Dundalk.

Pleased for Nesta and the legend that is Rubot on Twitter Dundalk’s future has been resolved.