New owners at dundalk

[sidewayspasser]

Maybe they hope that with consistent results in Europe, there would not only be prize money, but increased revenue from advertising, merchandise and TV as well as the possibility to actually sell players for higher fees every now and then. However, I also struggle to see the big money in that.
Could it actually be that the real profit would not be made in Dundalk, but in Bournemouth, with Dundalk just being a piece in their overall player development and progression setup?

[Nesta99]

Maybe they hope that with consistent results in Europe, there would not only be prize money, but increased revenue from advertising, merchandise and TV as well as the possibility to actually sell players for higher fees every now and then. However, I also struggle to see the big money in that.
Could it actually be that the real profit would not be made in Dundalk, but in Bournemouth, with Dundalk just being a piece in their overall player development and progression setup?

This makes more sense than most of the speculation on the takeover.

[sbgawa]

Don't agree....... if the profit is to be made it will be in dundalk red bulls they own 100 % of that and only 25 % of Bournemouth ;)

[ToberonaTornado]

Long awaited confirmation of the new owners due to be announced tomorrow or Friday i believe.

Malachy Brannigan due to be announced as COO

https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/stoke-contact-oneill-about-managers-job-36474246.html

https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/white-smoke-for-dundalk-as-us-takeover-nears-completion-36470685.html

[gufcfan]

Don't agree....... if the profit is to be made it will be in dundalk red bulls they own 100 % of that and only 25 % of Bournemouth ;)

100% of nothing is still nothing.

[White Horse]

Just read that there is another LOI club up for sale.

Can't mention which though. Site rules.

[Lim till i die]

I'd say 90% of League for Ireland clubs are up for sale at all times.

It's finding a buyer is the hassle!

[Ezeikial]

It looks like an announcement on takover by Peak6 may be imminent (although that has been said continually)

[nigel-harps1954]

It looks like an announcement on takover by Peak6 may be imminent (although that has been said continually)

Finn Harps are building a new stadium too.

[Charlie Darwin]

Bray Wanderers' players are all paid up to date too.

[Ezeikial]

Finn Harps are building a new stadium too.
Good, but I don't expect any new stadium in Dundalk.

All the new stadium energy belongs to you guys

[nigel-harps1954]

Good, but I don't expect any new stadium in Dundalk.

All the new stadium energy belongs to you guys

It's all about momentum, my good man.

[Ezeikial]

It's all about momentum, my good man.

None of that post makes any sense to me

For starters, that Momentum programme is limited to 12 months


MOMENTUM is a Government initiative under Pathways to Work which provides free education and training projects for up to 6,500 for individuals who are unemployed for 12 months or longer.



https://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/momentum.aspx

[nigel-harps1954]

6,500 eh...one for each seat.


At least in the original plans anyway..

[Yossarian]

So it seems the takeover will be announced today. Dundalk already listed on the investors website.

http://peak6sports.com

[CorribsideSteve]

I wish them all the best. This is exciting times for Dundalk. I will continue to be a little worried about it for their sake but it's the sort of now or never moment of status elevation, potentially sizeable cash injections and stability, stadium improvements and progress in Europe that would / should have been the dream of every LOI club. Yes, a lot has to be said for the likes of Sligo and Cork, doing great things with their loyal fanbases, but even then, it seems to me, that genuine outside investment is desperately needed in this League as an addition to the great work many clubs do, largely voluntarily. That's why I'm happy for them. Almost extinct not a decade ago, from ashes to the Europa League, and now, American investment. It will be great to see Dundalk as EL regulars with a modern stadium, a couple years down the line, all things going well.

[EatYerGreens]

I think it's a strange investment personally, and that it must be motivated by expectations of a relatively quick win via Euro money.

If you look at the clubs in the League of Ireland dispassionately, there are others with much more potential in terms of fanbase etc. Some of those (e.g. Cork) can't be bought - although supporter-owned clubs can, and occasionally do, vote to convert back into private ownership in return for investment (e.g. Brentford). But in terms of population and catchment area, in the league Dundalk would objectively be behind the 4 main Dublin clubs, Cork, Derry, Limerick, Galway and perhaps even Waterford. The only return I can see these guys getting for their investment is via Euro participation funds and TV rights for Euro fixtures. So they doubtless aim to spend enough to dominate Irish football every year and build on progression in Europe from there ie. the Rosenborg model. But Dundalk will always be hampered by the fact that it doesn't have a very big catchment area.

[El-Pietro]

I don't think you could say that Dundalk are behind Shels for example. Shels have never shown any ability to get support, even at their peak. Dundalk have a limited but passionate local support base, similar to Sligo.

I'd agree that the regional sides (ourselves, Galway, Derry, Waterford and Limerick) could have more potential due to larger catchment areas.

[Ezeikial]

You guys should alert peak6 immediately

[Nesta99]

Dundalk and Enviorns is about 70,000 people, add in the likes of Mid Louth eg Ardee, Dunleer, East Monaghan like Carrickmacross, South Down and Armagh and it would push immediate catchment to about 100k. So not that small by Irish standards and there is growth potential within the catchment. People from areas further afield have taken to supporting Dundalk due to a number of reasons but not sure how significant that would be to overall support. There are the benefits of being on the M1 half way between the 2 major urban centres on the island. That may not have too much bearing on support of Dundalk FC directly but could be seen as growth potential especially for people that are not particularly familiar with the lie of the land on how 'tribal' football supporters are here. Its just a potential market base.
A one club town of significant size could have its appeal over the less distinguishable areas of support in Dublin say. Try explaining the historical supporting hotbeds of Rovers and Shels for example, outside their current locations. 5 club in Dublin, Bray and even Drogheda are within the city's enviorns! Its nearly as quick from the airport to Dundalk these days at busy times as Dalymount to the airport for jetsetting executives doing their transfer dealings ;P
There is development potential at Oriel Park too near the centre of town, supposedly with LCC planning approval due to be granted (of course objections could yet happen). But most importantly Dundalk FC probably have a reasonable cash reserve that other clubs dont currently and no major outstanding debts/loans, which would catch the eye of investors, maybe not in a good way either.
It doesnt make it any clearer on the 'where is the quick return on investment' question. But I dont think population or demographics would be a big part of why Dundalk FC and not another club.

[redarmyfaction]

Dundalk and Enviorns is about 70,000 people, add in the likes of Mid Louth eg Ardee, Dunleer, East Monaghan like Carrickmacross, South Down and Armagh and it would push immediate catchment to about 100k. So not that small by Irish standards and there is growth potential within the catchment. People from areas further afield have taken to supporting Dundalk due to a number of reasons but not sure how significant that would be to overall support. There are the benefits of being on the M1 half way between the 2 major urban centres on the island. That may not have too much bearing on support of Dundalk FC directly but could be seen as growth potential especially for people that are not particularly familiar with the lie of the land on how 'tribal' football supporters are here. Its just a potential market base.
A one club town of significant size could have its appeal over the less distinguishable areas of support in Dublin say. Try explaining the historical supporting hotbeds of Rovers and Shels for example, outside their current locations. 5 club in Dublin, Bray and even Drogheda are within the city's enviorns! Its nearly as quick from the airport to Dundalk these days at busy times as Dalymount to the airport for jetsetting executives doing their transfer dealings ;P
There is development potential at Oriel Park too near the centre of town, supposedly with LCC planning approval due to be granted (of course objections could yet happen). But most importantly Dundalk FC probably have a reasonable cash reserve that other clubs dont currently and no major outstanding debts/loans, which would catch the eye of investors, maybe not in a good way either.
It doesnt make it any clearer on the 'where is the quick return on investment' question. But I dont think population or demographics would be a big part of why Dundalk FC and not another club.
I recently saw a piece piece pushing for Drogheda to become a city that said the urban area had a pop of 70k and now it appears that Dundalk is the same size, yet the population of Louth in total is just 123k, maybe it's the creative approach to figures in the NE that makes Dundalk an attractive proposition to investors.

[White Horse]

I recently saw a piece piece pushing for Drogheda to become a city that said the urban area had a pop of 70k and now it appears that Dundalk is the same size, yet the population of Louth in total is just 123k, maybe it's the creative approach to figures in the NE that makes Dundalk an attractive proposition to investors.

A large part of the population of Drogheda is in Co. Meath.

[sbgawa]

Have to think the announcement us imminent. I could be wrong but I'd imagine peak 6 will want to make a positive start by funding the signing of a few new players. Not much point in waiting until after the window closes. If they want to do a Rosenberg why wait for July to assemble a squad to dominate

[Longfordian]

Have to think the announcement us imminent. I could be wrong but I'd imagine peak 6 will want to make a positive start by funding the signing of a few new players. Not much point in waiting until after the window closes. If they want to do a Rosenberg why wait for July to assemble a squad to dominate

We’ll make them pay through the nose for our lads.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

Try explaining the historical supporting hotbeds of Rovers

Mostly areas along the river dodder but spreading to anything south of the grand canal, pretty easy really

[redarmyfaction]

List of Irish towns by size from the last census for anybody that's curious, potential investors might be interested to know that Dundalk and suburbs has a pop of 39k.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_urban_areas_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland_by_ population

[Ezeikial]

List of Irish towns by size from the last census for anybody that's curious, potential investors might be interested to know that Dundalk and suburbs has a pop of 39k.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_urban_areas_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland_by_ population

Jeez down with the sort of thing. Just as well dem Yanks don't read foot.is yet

[Nesta99]

It wasnt a p1ssing match I was trying to start. Whether it is 50k or 70k makes little difference to the general point. Dundalk Urban, Rural and Enviorns combined, a hinterland or catchment area if you like has an estimated 70k people. Best not live outside the urban boundry (and suburbs) of any town otherwise you cease to exist? As that most reliable source of knowledge that wikipedia is try the figures here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dundalk. I dont know which are closest to reality but as the above raf's link says list of urban area as 39k and there might just be a few people in outlying villages and rural areas that would be included by the general term of catchment; Add to that those who travel from Newry(yes there is quite a following from Newry from prior to them having a senior team in the city), Monaghan, mid-Louth etc and it does add up to a potential amount . But regardles i didnt mean the figures to be an affront to people from other towns watching population league tables, guesstimates or not!

As an aside raf the guy pushing city status also proposed Scotch Hall Shopping Centre to be converted in to Drogheda IT and has submitted the same report numerous times post census years. I wont say he has cooked the books but he was commissioned to do the report each time by a group led by a bit of a fruit. If there is ever to be a town redesignated as a city Sligo, Athlone and Tralee would be top of the list before any other irrespective of population tbh.



Dead easy Rathfarnham, anything south of the Grand Canal...Kildare, Wicklow, Cork, Tallaght, (via Milltown, Morten, RDS, Tolka, Inchicore, Dalymount in no particular order). Where is the river Dodder anyway...

[oriel]

On the topic of catchment area, Dundalk has a considerable support over the border, not just from Newry but a lot of areas in south Armagh and busses ran from a lot of these spots for the last 3 cup finals. This isn’t a new thing either as a lot of previous generation support came from those parts in the 60’s and 70’s.

Anyway latest date for the takeover to be signed and announced is tomorrow I hear. Then again, we’ve heard this before, many times.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

Dead easy Rathfarnham, anything south of the Grand Canal...Kildare, Wicklow, Cork, Tallaght, (via Milltown, Morten, RDS, Tolka, Inchicore, Dalymount in no particular order). Where is the river Dodder anyway...

Well in Dublin obviously... I thought that was obvious but clearly I need to go slower for some people, though being the biggest club historically in the country obviously there are pockets of fans in other surrounding areas but they wouldn't be considered "Rovers territory", they'd be more no mans land.
Apparently the concept of using Google to find out information you don't know hasn't reached where you are yet so I'll just tell you the Dodder is a river that goes through Tallaght, Milltown and Ringsend, ie the 3 areas associated with Rovers the most.
As you'll know temporary homes don't tend to result in fanbases developing in those areas (Monaghan, Tallaght in no particular order) it's normally more a case of the fans from the normal areas travelling there.
Anyway good luck with your American overlords who are definitely buying you for the love of the club.

[Nesta99]

Well in Dublin obviously... I thought that was obvious but clearly I need to go slower for some people, though being the biggest club historically in the country obviously there are pockets of fans in other surrounding areas but they wouldn't be considered "Rovers territory", they'd be more no mans land.
Apparently the concept of using Google to find out information you don't know hasn't reached where you are yet so I'll just tell you the Dodder is a river that goes through Tallaght, Milltown and Ringsend, ie the 3 areas associated with Rovers the most.
As you'll know temporary homes don't tend to result in fanbases developing in those areas (Monaghan, Tallaght in no particular order) it's normally more a case of the fans from the normal areas travelling there.
Anyway good luck with your American overlords who are definitely buying you for the love of the club.

Meow!! :D

The River Dodder, mypost's direct route to and from all spots Shamrock Rovers, that was the Tallaght master plan all along!!

[RathfarnhamHoop]

Meow!! :D

The River Dodder, mypost's direct route to and from all spots Shamrock Rovers, that was the Tallaght master plan all along!!

You got there eventually

[Nesta99]

I did - internet in the sticks stinks! Im sure mypost did too as did Shamrock Rover tbf

[Ezeikial]

According to Daniel McDonnell's analysis piece today in the Indo, only 21% of the league clubs revenue in 2016 came from gate receipts - the population catchment area is probably not as significant an issue as many believe

The percentage figure would also be even lower in Dundalk's case in 2016 despite gates being decent in a LoI context



Their latest figures touch on the 2016 financial year, a slightly unique one in the local context with Dundalk pocketing the bulk of their European rewards from their extraordinary €6.5m run during this period.
In that context, the fact that 43pc of the League of Ireland's €19m revenue came from UEFA channels - a figure in excess of €8m - can be attributed largely to the exploits of Dundalk and Cork in Europe.

In all, 32pc of revenue came from commercial and sponsorship opportunities, with 21pc taken from gate receipts and 4pc from other sources. Just 1pc of revenue comes from transfer proceeds and the absence of a TV deal is another factor that sets the League of Ireland apart from the high-earning leagues.


https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/wages-in-league-of-ireland-rise-by-28pc-36496919.html

[El-Pietro]

2016 was a bit of a unique year though wasn't it?

[Ezeikial]

2016 was a bit of a unique year though wasn't it?

Of course it ways and the quoted article makes that point.


Their latest figures touch on the 2016 financial year, a slightly unique one in the local context with Dundalk pocketing the bulk of their European rewards from their extraordinary €6.5m run during this period.

If the overall figure for all league clubs was 21% than obviously the percentage that gates contributed to Dundalk's revenue in 2016 would be substantially lower - while we don't know the actual figure it is fair to say that it is minuscule in the context of the 6.5m Euro prize money.

Dundalk's gates are healthy, but even a 25% increase pales into insignificance compared with the riches available for European progress.

On-field success and the prospects of European progress are far bigger factors for an investor getting a return than, for example, an extra 100,000 or so people in a catchment area

[El-Pietro]

Right but its pointless looking at 2016 and saying gates aren't important. 2016 was a one off and is unlikely to happen again anytime soon without major investment.

[Ezeikial]

Right but its pointless looking at 2016 and saying gates aren't important.

I didn't say gates aren't important


2016 was a one off and is unlikely to happen again anytime soon without major investment.

Isn't that exactly what this thread is about?

A potential of a takeover at Dundalk and possible major investment from Peak6.

The point is simple - while gate income is important, it is a relatively smaller revenue element than the prize money that is accessible via european qualification and minuscule compared to the rewards of repeating the 2016 group stages qualification

[El-Pietro]

Dundalk's gates are healthy, but even a 25% increase pales into insignificance compared with the riches available for European progress.


I didn't say gates aren't important


Yeah, you did.

If you are saying that Peak6 are going to bank on European revenue to make a profit on Dundalk then I would have concerns, and those concerns can be summed up as follows:
Ollie Byrne, Arkaga, Platinum One.

I've been pretty consistent on this topic. I suspect that this goes one of two ways. Either its a complete success and Peak6 lead Dundalk into a new and prosperous era, in which I suspect Cork City and Shamrock Rovers ride the coat tails to profit and European success but other clubs struggle to keep up, or it goes tits up pretty quickly in a similar fashion to Arkaga. I hope Dundalk fans are preparing for the worst.

[Ezeikial]

Yeah, you did.

.
Are you being deliberately obtuse?

Even if you misunderstood my earlier point on gates and catchment population, go back and read my last post which should clarify any confusion you might have

[Ezeikial]

If you are saying that Peak6 are going to bank on European revenue to make a profit on Dundalk then I would have concerns, and those concerns can be summed up as follows:
Ollie Byrne, Arkaga, Platinum One.




I have no idea what their plans are and personally I have lots of concerns about the venture.

At least you gave me a chuckle with linking Peak6 with Ollie Byrne

[EatYerGreens]

Yeah, you did.

If you are saying that Peak6 are going to bank on European revenue to make a profit on Dundalk then I would have concerns, and those concerns can be summed up as follows:
Ollie Byrne, Arkaga, Platinum One.

I've been pretty consistent on this topic. I suspect that this goes one of two ways. Either its a complete success and Peak6 lead Dundalk into a new and prosperous era, in which I suspect Cork City and Shamrock Rovers ride the coat tails to profit and European success but other clubs struggle to keep up, or it goes tits up pretty quickly in a similar fashion to Arkaga. I hope Dundalk fans are preparing for the worst.

Or it could do both. Lead to initial success before fizzling out a bit, after which Peak6 head for the hills leaving a financial corpse. Because if you're spending big on a model that required European money to work, then your model is inherently shaky.

The broader issue is that it could turn the League of Ireland into an utterly uncompetitive structure like Scotland or Wales - dominated by one or two clubs, boring as hell for everyone else and thereby effectively compromised as a 'product'. Which would affect every club's value, including those at the top.

[sbgawa]

Officially announced finaly

[Nesta99]

http://www.dundalkfc.com/us-investors-secure-100-stake-dundalk-fc/

[Nesta99]

Or it could do both. Lead to initial success before fizzling out a bit, after which Peak6 head for the hills leaving a financial corpse. Because if you're spending big on a model that required European money to work, then your model is inherently shaky.

The broader issue is that it could turn the League of Ireland into an utterly uncompetitive structure like Scotland or Wales - dominated by one or two clubs, boring as hell for everyone else and thereby effectively compromised as a 'product'. Which would affect every club's value, including those at the top.

Or it could be the start of serious investment in the league where the FAI have to step up in terms of how serious they are about the league. Who knows and time will tell. But a leap of faith in the past that didnt work doesnt mean that we as supporters of domestic football in Ireland should shun things just in case. Dundalk fans know all about being asset stripped, being a cash cow maybe for an 'invester'. We have little choice but to roll with it for now. The seeds of a supporters trust are there, its more a reactivating rather than a start from scratch. Its all very limited in information still anyways with just confirmation of the takover.

[pineapple stu]

Or it could be the start of serious investment in the league where the FAI have to step up in terms of how serious they are about the league.
Ha!

Let us know how that one pans out.

[placid casual]

Ha!

Let us know how that one pans out.

Well done, you've managed to encapsulate in one sentence everything that is wrong with the LOI.

[Sam_Heggy]

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

Ha, sorry to hijack a perfectly normal foot.ie argument but the use of obtuse as an insult made me laugh. Always make me think of Shawshank Redemption.
Carry on.

[osarusan]

I imagine the concern is that for investors looking to make a profit, the most likely way to go about that is to spend a lot on players, hoping that it brings European progress, and the prize money can then be pocketed. It's not a plan that considers the long-term welfare of the club.

It may work for a while, but the danger is that at the end, you are left with much the same club as you have now (by which I mean that you have not really improved in terms of underage structure, training facilities, owning your own ground, and so on), but saddled with a mountain of debt which is now unpayable.

It would be great to put conditions on the takeover, but I imagine they want carte blanche to do as they wish.

[El-Pietro]

I can't wait to hear about the plans to build a massive all seater stadium with hotels etc. We've never heard that before...