2018 UEFA European Under-17 Championship

[tetsujin1979]

highlights on UEFA's YouTube Channel
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[tetsujin1979]

I was wondering who this group of players will face in the qualifiers for the 2019 UEFA U19 championships when they move up an age grade later this year.
Turns out the qualifiers will be held here in October, and would you look at who is in the group: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_UEFA_European_Under-19_Championship_qualification#Group_10

[Kingdom]

Thanks Tets. I would fancy us to get over Bosnia and Faroes in Ireland.

[Stuttgart88]

One keeper feeling worse than Corcoran is the Spain keeper whose howler let Belgium win 2-1. Though he made a great save afterwards. Also on UEFA's youtube channel.

[pineapple stu]

This was part of a wholesale change to laws by the International Board in March 2017
That's a really informative post; thanks! (A corollary appears to be that moving side-to-side along your line is now no longer allowed either?)

So yeah, starting behind the line and charging out, as Corcoran did, is the issue.

I wonder though if he even knows himself that it was a foul? This would be a big oversight on the Irish team if so - who themselves didn't seem to know the rule, given the amount of complaints after.

I think the rule is very harsh, but the apparent lack of awareness of it from professional coaches is very surprising.

[bennocelt]

The rules explicity define it as a yellow card though. Referees warn the keepers before shootouts for the last 2 years.

Yeah but refs should use common sense, i am sure you wont see this kind of carry on in the world cup when the big nations play

[pineapple stu]

Disagree with that. People want consistency from referees - which you won't get by leaving it up to them to decide when to implement the rules.

There is in theory no reason why this won't impact the World Cup. (Although coaches being aware of the rules would be one factor which would reduce the incidence)

[bennocelt]

Disagree with that. People want consistency from referees - which you won't get by leaving it up to them to decide when to implement the rules.

There is in theory no reason why this won't impact the World Cup. (Although coaches being aware of the rules would be one factor which would reduce the incidence)


They do, and its the common sense approach that people want, and that so often refs dont give us. Just look at the VAR shenanigans.

[geysir]

With great reluctance and after a long period of righteous enraged indignation (of Trapesque proportions), I'd concede the officials got it accurately enough according to that new penalty rule. Possibly, as the ref only orders a retake in the event of the penalty not being converted, there may well have been many goalkeeping infringements gone unremarked upon. Though it does seem a bit odd that the offending goalie only gets a yellow card if the penalty is missed.
The goalie only gets punished if his sin reaps a dividend. You go in to rob a bank with a weapon but come out without any dosh, that's okay you can walk home.

I can see some rationale in restricting what antics the goalie can get up to when facing a penalty in normal game time, because his team fouled in the penalty area. But in a penalty shoot-out, it doesn't seem right to rigidly handicap the goalie to such extremes. Even though the ref may have got it right re Corcoran, I'd still want a payback with interest somewhere along the line, in order to realign the moral scales.

[osarusan]

Though it does seem a bit odd that the offending goalie only gets a yellow card if the penalty is missed.
The goalie only gets punished if his sin reaps a dividend.

Exactly what I was thinking too. It's the same transgression whether the penalty is saved or not, it should be punished the same also.

I'd prefer a warning for first offence, followed by a yellow if it happens again, regardless of whether the penalty is scored or not.

[tetsujin1979]

https://foot.ie/attachment.php?attachmentid=2681&stc=1
https://foot.ie/attachment.php?attachmentid=2682&stc=1

[gastric]

I didn’t see last night’s game but I hear they played conservatively, deliberately keeping things tight as the first priority. It may not be the best window to assess how good or bad these guys are.

Unless I heard Brian Kerr’s quotes out of context, I’ve got to say I disagree with his immediate assessment of the Emerging Talent Programme and what it’s producing. I was at the Bosnia game (having the pleasure of watching it with our own Kingdom) and here is what I texted to some friends straight after.

“Some serious talent in the U17s. Both CBs big strong and ball playing. Kameron Ledwidge the stand out for me but Nathan Collins good too. Connell left back looks the part as did the sub full back Max Murphy when he came on.

Tyrieke Wright right midfield receives the ball brilliantly in tight situations and has the skill to escape attention. Parrot was in and out of it but when in it he was really proactive. Idah was a mixed bag. Great athlete but lazy choices and poor execution sometimes. Lovely finish for his goal but could have had a couple more. McEntee another giant and good on the ball. Knight a talented CM, Coffey has physical presence but didn’t show much as a footballing midfielder. Brennan looks like Wes but didn’t get into the game enough. Keeper Corcoran didn’t have much to do. Bosnia keeper a fully grown giant! Looks about 30.

In general we looked a good team, organised and fully cohesive. Both CBs happy to carry the ball forward until they are challenged. Nearly ballsed it up once but the team move like a unit, much like Germany at senior level, which is great to see in an Irish team. My criticism is that maybe they’re a bit too technical, but in truth 4 or 5–1 wouldn’t have been unfair. We isolated their defence at ease at times but finishing was a bit panicked, Idah and Wright in particular. They track back well and put in some good tackles, none in desperation either. A few hairy moments but that’s what you’d expect in 80 mins of football.”

Highlight of the day for me was Andy Reid saying hello to me 

Great post Stutts. That's one criticism you don't read about most Irish teams, being too technical! Certainly a sense of greater optimism about the future of Irish football and most welcome. Also, class response from Corcoran regarding the sending off, typical Meathman!:D

https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/ireland-u17-goalkeeper-corcoran-says-red-card-decision-was-correct-in-classy-statement-thanking-fans-for-support-36911045.html

[pineapple stu]

Tets, those stills are meaningless. The real time video shows Corcoran both started behind the line and made two steps before the kick was taken. The Dutch keeper did neither.

The idea that "his foot was still on the line" is irrelevant

[the 12 th man]

While Corcoran moved around alright his movement was mostly lateral which is allowed.

It's done and dusted now and goes into the same folder as Henry but a bit nearer the back of it...:D

[pineapple stu]

The rule quoted says the keeper may not move his feet - so no lateral movement allowed under that wording.

Anyway, I can't see how, having watched the video, you can argue it was mostly lateral. It wasn't.

[pineapple stu]

I should add that this belongs nowhere near the Henry incident. The only disgrace here is that coaching staff and player didn't know the rules of the game.

I agree it's a harsh rule, and probably even illogical too, as noted by others. But it's the rule. Filing it alongside blatant cheating, giving out about the ref, or bringing in things that have nothing to do with the rule unfortunately only serve to reflect badly on the complainants.

[pineapple stu]

Corcoran calls card "cruel but correct"

Fair dues to him

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.rte.ie/amp/963797/

[Bungle]

If it was me, i would have given him a verbal warning and made the Dutch lad take it again, being aware that the goalie is about 16. However, the ref on paper made 100% the right call i guess.

The response from corcoran tells me a lot about him. The difference between lads making it is often minimal and that difference is often the young player's drive and personality - even more nowadays with lads on crazy money for being on a professional contract. Fair play to him.

It will be interesting to see if this is a very talented batch or if it is the sign of things clicking together for us. The word is that the ddsl lads were very competitive in the Friendship cup and St Kevin's are always very good against the giants of european football when they play them.

[pineapple stu]

If it was me, i would have given him a verbal warning and made the Dutch lad take it again, being aware that the goalie is about 16.
For which you would probably have been reported by the referee's assessor, and maybe not given any such profile match again.

[jbyrne]

I think Emmett Malone sums it up well today in the IT....

"It was harsh on Ireland but the Dutch go on and good luck to them. There have, despite suggestions to the contrary, been greater injustices in the history of the game than the manner of the Irish team’s exit the other night. Yet when the dust settles and the tournament is being reviewed, the incident will hopefully be recognised as a slightly shameful way to treat a 16-year-old doing his best to represent his country.

It would not be of much consolation to Corcoran but the rule should be changed again to ensure he is the only one to suffer that fate."

[the 12 th man]

Let's see how it's enforced in the WC.

[osarusan]

Indo reporting that both Irish and Dutch manager said that before the penalties, the ref warned about a yellow card being the punishment (for saved penalties at least).

Tbh, the bit about getting a yellow only for saved (and missed?) penalties is the bit that bothers me most.

[Bungle]

For which you would probably have been reported by the referee's assessor, and maybe not given any such profile match again.

I can only speak as someone who has played the game and as a football fan. As i said in my post, he was well within his remit to do what he did. However, football is a game where common sense should be used, especially at that level.

[osarusan]

I can only speak as someone who has played the game and as a football fan. As i said in my post, he was well within his remit to do what he did. However, football is a game where common sense should be used, especially at that level.

What did you think he did that was not common sense? Bear in mind, he had already warned both teams (or keepers at least) that they would be cautioned for doing what Corcoran went on to do.

EDIT: I think much of the criticism levelled at this ref exists because other refs don't actually enforce the law properly.

[pineapple stu]

If referees are permitted or encouraged to use "common sense", then you get a situation where, for example, Real Madrid aren't given an injury time penalty against Juventus because sure didn't Juve do so well to come back from 3-0 down.

Referees absolutely have to apply the letter of the law impartially. That's what they're there to do.

[the 12 th man]

Does the letter of the law state that only if the penalty is saved that you get a caution?

[Closed Account]

Does the letter of the law state that only if the penalty is saved that you get a caution?
http://theifab.com/laws/the-penalty-kick/chapters/the-penalty-kick-faq
Q3: Why must the goalkeeper who infringes the Law at a penalty kick and causes the kick to be retaken, be cautioned (YC)?
If the goalkeeper moves early (or infringes in any other way) this can directly affect the outcome of the penalty kick so introducing a caution(YC) is consistent with the increased punishment for the kicker and should deter goalkeepers from moving early etc.
https://i.imgur.com/FbR8dPK.png

[the 12 th man]

So you can infringe the law providing you don't save it.

[Closed Account]

So you can infringe the law providing you don't save it.
Correct.

[bennocelt]

A lot of sticklers that love their old rule book. The lad was only 16 ffs, and if the ref didnt give it no one would have complained.
As I said, lets see how often this rule is used the WCup. Will be interesting. Lets wait and see.:)

[seanfhear]

So you can infringe the law providing you don't save it.


Correct.
In fairness that is daft .

[seanfhear]

Could I suggest some sort of bungee cord attached to each foot and to each adjacent post and perhaps to ameliorate this slight extra difficulty for the Goalkeeper the penalty spot be moved out an three extra yards ( a bit like a metre ) to 15 yards . .

[CraftyToePoke]

I was at this game the other night, and it was farce lads. No one knew what was going on, all we could see was one very upset young kid out there, inconsolable he was, and for a long while too. However you argue the technicalities of it and if the ref was to the letter of the law correct etc, it just wasn't something that belonged in that game, that age group, in my opinion anyway and if it happened to an opponent, I honestly wouldn't want to see us win that way either. It reminded me of the line in the movie, if the rule you followed brought you to this, of what use was the rule ? And, yes, lets see if any high profile keeper gets pulled for this in the summer in Russia, I would doubt it.

The game itself, I was hoping for more to admire from us on the ground, ball retention wise after all I had heard about this side, but definitely a few lads out there who have a chance at the same time.

[p2011]

Reading around, it sounds like their keeper got two warnings for doing the same thing, while ours got a yellow straight off - is that accurate?

Shades of 2009 to the extent that it probably wouldn't happen to Germany, Spain, England.... but it happens to the plucky losers who nobody expects to go through.

[pineapple stu]

It appears so - because the rule states a yellow is only issued if the penalty is not scored

[Real ale Madrid]

Netherlands have advanced to the final, beating England....


6-5 on pens!

[seanfhear]

Netherlands have advanced to the final, beating England....


6-5 on pens!Any Shenanigans ?

[tricky_colour]

Well the penalty thing is very confusing, it is not clear to me what the rule are, the pdf posted does not seem to make
clear what rule apply to the keeper.

IN fact bizarrely it seems to more concern about the keeper who is not even facing the kick, why anyone would give a **** were
he stands is only something FIFA can explain.

Anyhow it seems our keeper start off behind the line, but rule he is suppose to be on it



The referee shall confirm the following requirements
before the penalty kick is taken:

the goalkeeper is on the goal line between the goal
posts and facing the kicker

It is hard to see if he was off his line from the video, ie were his feet
were.

Further to that the rules are unclear, FIFA rely on a picture were the keeper
has both feet grounded over the line, from what I can see our keeper has
one foot on the line.

So the rule are just not clear enough and the head of FIFA should be sent off (sacked and sued). The penalty kicks should be replayed.
Total disgrace.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/ireland-u17-goalkeeper-corcoran-says-red-card-decision-was-correct-in-classy-statement-thanking-fans-for-support-36911045.html


Ireland U17 goalkeeper Corcoran says red card decision was 'correct' in classy statement thanking fans for support



Not sure I agree with him on that going by what I saw, but the video is not too clear.

On the bright side we scored against the Netherlands which is more that England could manage.

One thing which is clear is FIFA need to clarify their rules and they can't do it with pictures as no other situation is every going to be a copy of the picture down to the last pixel.

Ireland should withdraw from this summers world cup finals in protest.

[osarusan]

All the laws about penalties could probably do with a review - it seems that keepers are effectively rooted to the spot until the kick is taken, while takers are expressly allowed to shuffle/feint in their run-up (up to a certain point).

Even though penalty-takers can get booked (as Son did against Rochdale for 'illegal feinting which constitutes unsporting behaviour), surely the intention behind the shuffle/feint is to get the keeper to move/commit in some way, and if you're successful, you get the equivalent of a free hit - if you score, great, if you miss it gets retaken.

[Charlie Darwin]

It appears so - because the rule states a yellow is only issued if the penalty is not scored
That's what I don't get. Surely foul play is foul play. You don't let off a player with a yellow card foul if the other team successfully plays advantage.

[Closed Account]

That's what I don't get. Surely foul play is foul play. You don't let off a player with a yellow card foul if the other team successfully plays advantage.
My interpretation is that the yellow card offence is causing them to miss the kick. If they don't miss, no offence.

[DeLorean]

The still shots comparing the Dutch keeper's position and Corcaran's are nonsensical. I'm not sure how anybody could look at the footage of both and think their movements were the same, or even similar. Like Corcaran himself, I think we need to take this one on the chin, even though I felt hard done by at the time without knowing what we do now.

I can't really get on board with this notion that making a sixteen year old cry, by making the right call, is lacking common sense either. We're talking about qualification for a European Championhship semi final here, not some local under-10's blitz. Who'd be a referee?!

Corcaran didn't get near the first two or three penalties. We were trailing in the shootout so I think he felt he needed to change tack to give himself a better chance, I certainly did anyway. Unfortunately in doing so he crossed the line of what is reasonably acceptable.

[mark12345]

I was at this game the other night, and it was farce lads. No one knew what was going on, all we could see was one very upset young kid out there, inconsolable he was, and for a long while too. However you argue the technicalities of it and if the ref was to the letter of the law correct etc, it just wasn't something that belonged in that game, that age group, in my opinion anyway and if it happened to an opponent, I honestly wouldn't want to see us win that way either. It reminded me of the line in the movie, if the rule you followed brought you to this, of what use was the rule ? And, yes, lets see if any high profile keeper gets pulled for this in the summer in Russia, I would doubt it.

The game itself, I was hoping for more to admire from us on the ground, ball retention wise after all I had heard about this side, but definitely a few lads out there who have a chance at the same time.

"Nobody knew what was going on"
I am a referee and to be honest I don't know what's going on. We refs were called into a recertification class about six weeks ago, in anticipation of the new season, and I for one (and I'm 20 years at it) could not believe what I was hearing in terms of changes to the laws of the game. I knew people would be dumfounded like they were during this game. Taking penalties and controlling the taking of penalties will be a completely new and I would think, extremely frustrating experience for all involved

[mark12345]

Referee was nothing if not totally inconsistent in his application of the rules for the shootout. Corcoran appeared to have one foot on the Lin after viewing several replays. Whether that's legal or not I can't say. But the Dutch keeper, for an earlier kick, had both feet off the line and was off to the races

[pineapple stu]

Have you read any of the thread up to this point where it's pointed out that practically none of that is relevant?

You even criticise the referee while acknowledging you don't know what the rules are! Surely you realise that can't make any sense?

[mark12345]

Have you read any of the thread up to this point where it's pointed out that practically none of that is relevant?

You even criticise the referee while acknowledging you don't know what the rules are! Surely you realise that can't make any sense?

I'm saying it tongue in cheek. I do 'know' the rules but it's very new and I haven't had much chance to put it to use (and find myself explaining it to bemused teams before kick off).
Too many rules thrown at referees and players (and fans) in such a short space of time isn't good.
What also is not good (from a refs point of view) is the "well it's the rules of the game and if it's in the rules then you can't really complain" type of vibe.
If it's part of the rules why are players and supporters just discovering this particular rule in a major tournament (albeit U17).
FIFA need to put refs in a position to succeed and this is not the way to do it.

[mark12345]

And while we're on the subject of rules, let me put the following scenario to you:

You are a center back. You are standing two yards outside your own penalty area when a team mate passes you the ball.
An attacker comes in and buries you with an illegal tackle.
The referee awards you a free kick.
You put the ball on the floor and motion your team mates upfield as you prepare to kick the ball long.
However your goalkeeper, standing behind you, persuades you to pass the ball to him.
You pass the ball backwards to the keeper, he slips and falls and the ball goes into the net.

Without consulting the rule book - what is the outcome of that situation?

[Closed Account]

If your outside the box and you've received the ball. Own goal.

[CraftyToePoke]

You are standing two yards outside your own penalty area when a team mate passes you the ball.

Outside I think Joe.

[samhaydenjr]

And while we're on the subject of rules, let me put the following scenario to you:

You are a center back. You are standing two yards outside your own penalty area when a team mate passes you the ball.
An attacker comes in and buries you with an illegal tackle.
The referee awards you a free kick.
You put the ball on the floor and motion your team mates upfield as you prepare to kick the ball long.
However your goalkeeper, standing behind you, persuades you to pass the ball to him.
You pass the ball backwards to the keeper, he slips and falls and the ball goes into the net.

Without consulting the rule book - what is the outcome of that situation?

As it's a foul, it would be a direct free-kick, so kicking it directly into your own goal still stands as a goal. However, if the infringement had been an offside, it would have been an indirect free-kick and it wouldn't count as you can't score directly from an indirect free-kick - I think the restart would be a corner to the attacking team but I'm not certain on that. Am I right?