Scott Hogan F MK Dons b.1992

[SkStu]

Cost Birmingham the points with two very poor misses. His goal was a bit of a miscue but obviously went where it needed to.

[ifk101]

The goal came off his shin?? And as note by SkStu, two poor misses. If he has improved since his last inclusion in the squad, it wasn't evident yesterday. But he's on a goal scoring run so call him up.

[seanfhear]

The goal came off his shin?? And as note by SkStu, two poor misses. If he has improved since his last inclusion in the squad, it wasn't evident yesterday. But he's on a goal scoring run so call him up.
Perhaps just call up the Lucky Shin.

[pineapple stu]

Perhaps just call up the Lucky Shin.
Isn't that Ronnie Whelan?

Funny though that Idah's recent lucky goal was a well-intentioned heavy touch to fool the defence, and his bad one-on-one miss was good goalkeeping. :)

[seanfhear]

Isn't that Ronnie Whelan?

Funny though that Idah's recent lucky goal was a well-intentioned heavy touch to fool the defence, and his bad one-on-one miss was good goalkeeping. :)
Sometimes ( OK, Only occasionally ) It is better to be lucky than good ~ But there is nothing wrong with good luck at any time ( well accept for my enemies )

[Charlie Darwin]

Isn't that Ronnie Whelan?

Funny though that Idah's recent lucky goal was a well-intentioned heavy touch to fool the defence, and his bad one-on-one miss was good goalkeeping. :)
I think most people in that thread said it was just a heavy touch though?

[pineapple stu]

Well here's Stutts -


For the goal, the heavy first touch made it. A softer touch and he'd have had to decelerate and he'd have been tackled from behind.

Or jbyrne -


or maybe his first touch is what makes the goal by tempting the goal keeper off his line so idah can poke it past him.

I thought it was worth contrasting those views with ifk's comment here ("The goal came off his shin?? And as note by SkStu, two poor misses. If he has improved since his last inclusion in the squad, it wasn't evident yesterday.") on what sounds a similar kind of goal from Hogan (I haven't seen it). Those who allow that Hogan maybe deserves a call-up generally reckon it should be at the expense of Collins, not Idah. I think it's slightly unfair on Hogan.

SkStu is commendably consistent across both threads in fairness.

[Charlie Darwin]

Wasn't really a consensus though was it? Like one person said Hogan shinned it versus loads who didn't even notice and then a couple of people who took a charitable view of Idah's first touch again.

[paul_oshea]

It definitely wasn't intentional, Hogan's I mean he did look like he wanted to go across goal but it came off the side of his upper lower leg.

[jbyrne]

where do i say it was an intentional touch?
idah made the best of what happened to the ball after he touched it. thats it

you are just determined to trample on any sort of positivity around here. idahs luck with the goal, portugal didnt care, serbia took their foot off the peddle etc etc etc etc. i bet if i go back a bit further to our wins over germany, wales and italy i will find no shortage of similar party pooping

[pineapple stu]

Wasn't really a consensus though was it? Like one person said Hogan shinned it versus loads who didn't even notice and then a couple of people who took a charitable view of Idah's first touch again.
I think the overall reaction to what sound two similarly scrappy/fortunate goals seems a bit different (positive for Idah, negative for Hogan from ifk), especially in the context of the differing views on the two players overall (again, positive for Idah and much less so for Hogan)


you are just determined to trample on any sort of positivity around here.
I'm actually defending a guy in double figures for the season in the Championship, who others reckon shouldn't be in the squad - "Please stop trying to make him happen" is a not untypical post.

How's that not positivity?

[paul_oshea]

where do i say it was an intentional touch?
idah made the best of what happened to the ball after he touched it. thats it

you are just determined to trample on any sort of positivity around here. idahs luck with the goal, portugal didnt care, serbia took their foot off the peddle etc etc etc etc. i bet if i go back a bit further to our wins over germany, wales and italy i will find no shortage of similar party pooping

I never said you said it was intentional, I was solely referring to Hogan.

I thought the Wales and German wins were good and really enjoyed the Italy game but there's no way Italy were losing that if they needed anything from it, it still didn't stop me enjoying it though! Genuinely one of our best games in my 15+ (at the time)years or more watching them away and definitely the one I enjoyed the most!

[ifk101]

That left Bowyer raging, particularly after seeing his side miss so many chances to put the match to bed.

“That game should have been finished, done. We’re missing too many chances," Bowyer said.

"[I’m] saying the same rubbish every time - miss chance after chance, don’t put games to bed, invite pressure at the end, silly fouls in silly areas, unnecessary, balls coming into the box, defend it properly, put your body on the line.
“Saying the same, same, same things.

“Scott Hogan should have at least three goals today, how he hasn’t got a hat trick I will never, ever know.

“But again, how many times have I sat here and said that after a game? Too many times. I am sick and tired of it.

“Leaving here with one point against a good Derby side, everything we work on, you put all the hours in on the training pitch, you do everything right and then you throw three points away.”

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/same-rubbish-lee-bowyer-blasts-22924641


Lousy being thrown under the bus like that. Can’t be good for a player's confidence.

[seanfhear]

Lousy being thrown under the bus like that. Can’t be good for a player's confidence.
I am going to be controversial here and say that ~ Lee Bowyer is Not a nice man.

[Exgrad]

Lads even his own manager thinks Scott Hogan is crap. Lets just all move on now please.

[John83]

Lads even his own manager thinks Scott Hogan is crap. Lets just all move on now please.
I'd hate to see what he'd think of Robinson, who has a third as many goals this season.

Has everyone forgotten that our forwards are crap? We have league 1 forwards in the squad. Maybe he doesn't fit, but dismissing one of the better goalscorers in the Championship as "crap" is baffling.

[Crosby87]

Read somewhere he is related to Hulk Hogan.

[Exgrad]

The fact that Scott Hogan is crap is important, and shouldn't be forgotten, its the main reason he ever pulled an Ireland jersey on

https://www.mylondon.news/sport/football/football-news/brentford-star-ignoring-talk-over-11290878

[SkStu]

Read somewhere he is related to Hulk Hogan.

His uncle.

And Crocodile Dundee is his grandad.

[seanfhear]

His uncle.

And Crocodile Dundee is his grandad.
Another Uncle, Scot had Artics ! !

[ColourfulPeanut]

The fact that Scott Hogan is crap is important, and shouldn't be forgotten, its the main reason he ever pulled an Ireland jersey on

https://www.mylondon.news/sport/football/football-news/brentford-star-ignoring-talk-over-11290878
It's also the main reason why 99% of England born Irish players have pulled a jersey on.

You think Callum Robinson would be playing for us if he were good enough for England?

[geysir]

Read somewhere he is related to Hulk Hogan.

Is this the real Crosby who has returned to the fold?

[Snapshot]

The fact that Scott Hogan is crap is important, and shouldn't be forgotten, its the main reason he ever pulled an Ireland jersey on


Fair enough. Let's select crap players who score goals over crap players who don't.

[seanfhear]

It's also the main reason why 99% of England born Irish players have pulled a jersey on.

You think Callum Robinson would be playing for us if he were good enough for England?
And from a financial point of view it would be a no-brainer ~ Play for England.

[Diggs246]

Breen and kilbane are the only ones I can think of who would have always picked Ireland...but I'm sure there is a few more?

[ColourfulPeanut]

Both were raised by two Irish parents too. I would say there are 0 granny rule players picked us as a primary choice when both would be available to them and it'll likely always be that way. Grealish and Rice were just the biggest ones because they are by far the most talented.

If you're going to mark Hogan with that brush then you need to do the same all the other 3rd gen Irish players we have.

[sadloserkid]

David Connolly? Maybe Babb. I agree with the general point though. The notion that Hogan is any different that a John Aldridge or Clinton Morrisson is laughable.

[seanfhear]

I am old enough to remember when all of these different players started playing for Ireland. I can actually remember Johnny Giles being player manager, and the reality is that if pretty much every one of them were good enough to play for England ( and got the opportunity ) they would have played for England.

I even remember some that now say, that it was never in doubt that they would play for Ireland actually taking a fair amount of time to actually do that ~ Probably / Possibly weighing up their options.

[Fixer82]

David Connolly? Maybe Babb. I agree with the general point though. The notion that Hogan is any different that a John Aldridge or Clinton Morrisson is laughable.

Yep. Connolly was always going to play for Ireland too. I think I remember counting players born outside of Ireland that would only have played for Ireland and I counted 6 (not including McGrath and O'Leary who were brought up here). Must try remember the others. Perhaps Delap, perhaps not. I think possibly Alan McLoughlin and Alan Kelly.
Alan Kelly and his brother had Ireland kits bought for them growing up and their Da played for Ireland (probably the first kits available to the public.)

David Kelly I think was asked to play U-21 for England and Ireland the same weekend and phoned his Dad and his Dad gave him an earful as to why he was even thinking about it and that made his mind up.

[Trequartista20]

Alan McLoughlin would always have chosen Ireland over England and both his parents were Irish.

https://www.the42.ie/alan-mclaughlin-ireland-england-call-up-letters-3635108-Oct2017/

I'm not too sure about Babb. He was born to an Irish parent, but then so was Harry Kane.

Recruiting dual-qualified players has never bothered me, so long as the player's committed. Of course some Irish-born players like Stephen Ireland and Joey O'Brien showed themselves to be less than enthusiastic about playing for Ireland.

As far as Hogan is concerned my attitude is that that we have to be realistic about the options available to us. we can only pick from what we can pick from. Like it or not, no other Irish player has scored more goals at as high a level as Hogan, therefore he is by default in the picture for the next Ireland squad.

[Fixer82]

Alan McLoughlin would always have chosen Ireland over England and both his parents were Irish.

https://www.the42.ie/alan-mclaughlin-ireland-england-call-up-letters-3635108-Oct2017/

I'm not too sure about Babb. He was born to an Irish parent, but then so was Harry Kane.

Recruiting dual-qualified players has never bothered me, so long as the player's committed. Of course some Irish-born players like Stephen Ireland and Joey O'Brien showed themselves to be less than enthusiastic about playing for Ireland.

As far as Hogan is concerned my attitude is that that we have to be realistic about the options available to us. we can only pick from what we can pick from. Like it or not, no other Irish player has scored more goals at as high a level as Hogan, therefore he is by default in the picture for the next Ireland squad.


Absolutely. Townsend, Houghton, Aldridge etc were brilliant for us and left it all out on the pitch

[Diggs246]

Alan McLoughlin would always have chosen Ireland over England and both his parents were Irish.

https://www.the42.ie/alan-mclaughlin-ireland-england-call-up-letters-3635108-Oct2017/

I'm not too sure about Babb. He was born to an Irish parent, but then so was Harry Kane.

Recruiting dual-qualified players has never bothered me, so long as the player's committed. Of course some Irish-born players like Stephen Ireland and Joey O'Brien showed themselves to be less than enthusiastic about playing for Ireland.

As far as Hogan is concerned my attitude is that that we have to be realistic about the options available to us. we can only pick from what we can pick from. Like it or not, no other Irish player has scored more goals at as high a level as Hogan, therefore he is by default in the picture for the next Ireland squad.

Actuals that's a very common misconception.. Harry Kane's Grandfather was from Galway his father was born in England

[Stuttgart88]

I think we're probably all guessing a bit because Kenny knows exactly what he wants from players and doesn't seem to rate Hogan too highly, but it seems like Hogan is probably competing with Collins and maybe Long for being the guy who comes off the bench when you're throwing the kitchen sink.

What I think links all the players named, Robinson, Idah, Connolly, Parrott, etc, is they all get involved in every aspect of play from build-up forwards, which seems to be integral to what Kenny wants/needs in his team. I'd be surprised to see Hogan ever start just like I'd be surprised to see Collins start a big game going forward.

Agreed.

I’ve only really seen Hogan a few times. Very clearly a centre forward but not a target man. In style / stature he reminds me a bit of Michael Owen, but obviously not in ability. Seems to be at his most effective 6-15 yards from goal. I’m not sure he contributes much in open play so I don’t see SK fancying him. But in hindsight I think he’d have been effective in the Slovakia away game as we created a few of the penalty box type chances he seems to like.

He had three big chances at the weekend. A one-on-one which he hit firmly at the keeper, lacking accuracy. Through the keeper’s legs or low and wide of the keeper were the only two ways to score. The goal wasn’t as lucky as some have said. The ball only needed a light touch to divert it past the keeper, and that’s what he did. It wasn’t pretty but it worked.

He then had a chance from about 12 yards that he caught on the full but missed the target. This was a worryingly bad miss imho. And had it gone in it was game over, 3-0. As it happened Derby then scored twice to draw.

[Trequartista20]

Hogan's listed as being 5'11'' and looks about that to me. Owen's, what, 5'7''? So I'm not sure I really agree with the stature comparison.

In terms of playing styles, Owen was a far better dribbler and carrier of the ball and techniquely better. Hogan scores more headed goals. Hogan's main strengths, from what I've seen of him, are his movement and his pace over short distances; he gets into good positions and can be a decent goalscorer when he's in the mood, but tends to be very streaky in this regard.

I also see him as more of a squad option than a starter and, based on form, could possibly come into the squad in place of Collins.

[Trequartista20]

Actuals that's a very common misconception.. Harry Kane's Grandfather was from Galway his father was born in England

I didn't know this. It contradicts everything I've ever read about it.

[Olé Olé]

I didn't know this. It contradicts everything I've ever read about it.
Are you sure? I thought his father was born in Ireland but moved to England rather young.

[irishfan86]

When Kane was asked about Declan Rice at the time of the switch, he referenced that his grandparents on his father’s side were Irish.

“My nana and grandad were Irish on my dad’s side, so I had that decision,” Kane was quoted as saying at the time.

I’ve seen some articles implying Kane’s father moved to England at a young age from Ireland but if that’s the case it’s kind of strange he wouldn’t have included his father in that quote on the decision he never had to make. I’ll add that while those articles are all over the search engines, they appear to be from dubious sources.

[pineapple stu]

Wikipedia says -


Kane was also eligible for the Republic of Ireland through his father, who was born in Galway,[12]

Citation is this article from the42.ie - https://www.the42.ie/harry-kane-england-2001121-Mar2015/

[Diggs246]

Wikipedia says -



Citation is this article from the42.ie - https://www.the42.ie/harry-kane-england-2001121-Mar2015/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/connachttribune.ie/harry-kane-hes-one-of-our-own-909/amp/

[Diggs246]

"Harry’s grandfather, Michael John Kane, was born and reared in the townland of Dawros in Letterfrack; he emigrated to England as a young man"

[paul_oshea]

I was always of the belief his grandfather left Ireland. However I'm less sure that's true now after reading that article.
"However, the intensity of the Premier Division football and his England commitments mean that free time is very limited."

[John83]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/connachttribune.ie/harry-kane-hes-one-of-our-own-909/amp/
Apologies for the tangent, but lots of people dislike google amp links. The top comment here explains why if you're interested. https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/ecrzvp/eli5_what_are_amp_pages_and_whats_bad_about_them/

[Kingdom]

Agreed.

I’ve only really seen Hogan a few times. Very clearly a centre forward but not a target man. In style / stature he reminds me a bit of Michael Owen, but obviously not in ability. Seems to be at his most effective 6-15 yards from goal. I’m not sure he contributes much in open play so I don’t see SK fancying him. But in hindsight I think he’d have been effective in the Slovakia away game as we created a few of the penalty box type chances he seems to like.

He had three big chances at the weekend. A one-on-one which he hit firmly at the keeper, lacking accuracy. Through the keeper’s legs or low and wide of the keeper were the only two ways to score. The goal wasn’t as lucky as some have said. The ball only needed a light touch to divert it past the keeper, and that’s what he did. It wasn’t pretty but it worked.

He then had a chance from about 12 yards that he caught on the full but missed the target. This was a worryingly bad miss imho. And had it gone in it was game over, 3-0. As it happened Derby then scored twice to draw.

"They call me lucky, they don't know how hard I worked

This possibly goes back to our conversation. I'm biased. I don't like Hogan - it's that simple and irrational. And it's entirely apt that he scored the hardest one to score - I believe the word I used was fluke :-) - simply because of how he hit it (I think he got the result he was intending but possibly wasn't trying to hit it as he did). anyway, his other two misses were awful, and absolutely cost Brum the win.

[third policeman]

"They call me lucky, they don't know how hard I worked

This possibly goes back to our conversation. I'm biased. I don't like Hogan - it's that simple and irrational. And it's entirely apt that he scored the hardest one to score - I believe the word I used was fluke :-) - simply because of how he hit it (I think he got the result he was intending but possibly wasn't trying to hit it as he did). anyway, his other two misses were awful, and absolutely cost Brum the win.


But the goal secured the the draw.

[Fixer82]

McGeady could be another one who would've chosen Ireland regardless. Footage of him as a kid playing football on the street in an Ireland jersey. And when pressed on it said something like 'any time anyone asked me as a kid who I was going to play for, for some reason I always said Ireland'

[third policeman]

McGeady could be another one who would've chosen Ireland regardless. Footage of him as a kid playing football on the street in an Ireland jersey. And when pressed on it said something like 'any time anyone asked me as a kid who I was going to play for, for some reason I always said Ireland'

Undoubtedly true, but we were a lot better than Scotland at that time as well.

[Fixer82]

Terry Phelan 100% was only ever going to play for Ireland

[third policeman]

Terry Phelan 100% was only ever going to play for Ireland


There's a story I was told by my cousin who swears it's true, but I've never found any reference or verification. I know that both Lawrenson and Hughton flirted with ultra-left politics in their youth. Hughton was in the SWP (Socialist Workers Party) and Lawrenson had some connection to the WRP (Workers Revolutionary Party). Allegedly, and here the only evidence comes from my cousin Mark in Derry, he was interviewed by local radio in Preston about being capped by Ireland. The interviewer asked him whether he had ever thought about playing for England. Lawrenson is alleged to have replied that he would not have felt comfortable playing for an imperialist country. This may well be totally apocryphal but has anyone else ever heard this or able to verify it.

[Fixer82]

There's a story I was told by my cousin who swears it's true, but I've never found any reference or verification. I know that both Lawrenson and Hughton flirted with ultra-left politics in their youth. Hughton was in the SWP (Socialist Workers Party) and Lawrenson had some connection to the WRP (Workers Revolutionary Party). Allegedly, and here the only evidence comes from my cousin Mark in Derry, he was interviewed by local radio in Preston about being capped by Ireland. The interviewer asked him whether he had ever thought about playing for England. Lawrenson is alleged to have replied that he would not have felt comfortable playing for an imperialist country. This may well be totally apocryphal but has anyone else ever heard this or able to verify it.

I’d love if it were true but I’d be very surprised.
Especially with Lawrenson. He’s never struck me as someone who’s very clued in on current affairs.
Hughton much more plausible

[Fixer82]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/newcastle-boss-chris-hughton-admits-3368688.amp