Scott Hogan F MK Dons b.1992

[samhaydenjr]

Third goal in three games today and sixth of the season - worth another look next year? https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/59099838

[Diggs246]

O'Dowda replaces injured Collins in Ireland squad (rte.ie) (https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2021/1108/1258573-odowda-replaces-injured-collins-in-ireland-squad/)

Scott Hogan is no where near Kenny's plans

It might be a mistake too, if we need a goal v lux to possibly save his job, I know who I would prefer to bring on between him and O Dowda

[samhaydenjr]

After a bit of a drought over the last few months, scores his seventh of the season: https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/59918634

[samhaydenjr]

A bit of a patchy season for Hogan, but still looks like he'll get his best return since his Brentford breakout - scored his eighth in twenty-five appearances today - https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/60005545 - so... a 12-15 goal Championship striker still in his prime - worthy of inclusion in the squad next season?

[Supreme feet]

A bit of a patchy season for Hogan, but still looks like he'll get his best return since his Brentford breakout - scored his eighth in twenty-five appearances today - https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/60005545 - so... a 12-15 goal Championship striker still in his prime - worthy of inclusion in the squad next season?

I wouldn't be appalled if he was selected, especially ahead of Will Keane or Collins, but I can't forget how out of his depth he looked for us at home to Gibraltar. Contributed absolutely nothing, didn't look like he had anything about him in terms of touch, mobility, power, and pace; and never looked like scoring for us then, or in any of his other seven appearances. He just looked like an absolute nothing player. Granted, Mick's setup wasn't designed to get the best out of attacking players, but David McGoldrick still looked several classes above Hogan.

The consensus from Villa fans was that he needed to play in a system that's totally built around him, where chances are served to him on a plate. And it's telling that Dean Smith - who got the best out of Hogan at Brentford - wanted nothing to do with him when he took over at Villa.

[pineapple stu]

In fairness, most of our players were dreadful in that game against Gibraltar, and most of our forwards have been dreadful under Kenny. I don't think a game three years ago is really a reason to leave him out of the squad entirely now, especially when Parrott - struggling to even make an impact a division lower - is being included.

[Supreme feet]

Don't forget his other seven caps.

If a forward is 26 or older, and not making an instant impression at this level, like Daryl Murphy, Walters, or McGoldrick did when they got their chances, then they just don't have it.

The best course of action for us is to pick young players with a ceiling for improvement, rather than continue putting faith in proven mediocrity. I'd agree with leaving Parrott out until he finds his way; I'd rather see someone like Oko-Flex or Ferguson in the squad in his place as a development player. Wales have been fast-tracking young lads like that for years - Wilson, James, Ampadu, Woodburn, Brooks, Williams, etc.

[pineapple stu]

Yeah, but Idah/Parrott/Connolly have done nothing in 30+ caps between them, and only that another half-decent 26-year-old Championship forward who'd made no impact in 20 caps beforehand (Robinson) suddenly came good, Kenny would probably be gone by now.

Beggars really can't be choosers, and we can't just kick our heels until Idah/Parrott/Connolly come good.

It's one thing fast-tracking young players - it's another thing depending on them entirely. Which Wales aren't doing.

[Supreme feet]

Anyone could see that Robinson had pace, technique, a willingness to get on the ball, and the ability to sniff out chances, even if his finishing was poor until this year.

Idah was excellent for us in Portugal, and in other games. There's a player in there, as Norwich are now finding out. Finishing has let him down.

Connolly made an instant impact in Georgia under Mick, and has shown glimpses of talent. Attitude is the problem, not talent.

Parrott scored twice in Andorra, similar level to Gibraltar. Has some talent.

Hogan has not demonstrated any talent in a green jersey, despite being the finished article. We might as well be building the team around James Collins, who incidentally, has a better scoring record in the Championship than Hogan. Or Sean Maguire or Aidan O'Brien, who at least scored for us, once.

We're playing a modern style of football now. We need modern footballers.

[pineapple stu]

Ah that's all very selective.

Robinson scored once in his first 20 games - he didn't score against Gibraltar either - but you're writing off Hogan for scoring no goals in 8? He hasn't even played under Kenny yet, and Kenny's playing a very different style of play so I wouldn't be judging him exclusively on his performances for Ireland.

Idah was good in Portugal but he's been poor most of the time, and when he was hauled off in our last game in Luxembourg (half-time analysis having flagged him as a weak link) it changed the game. Connolly has glimpses of talent - so what? The jury is increasingly out on Parrott. Collins does have a better scoring record in the second tier than Hogan and while I've not been convinced by him, I wouldn't rule him out either. Hogan has had a run of injuries which hasn't helped, but now that he's injury-free, he's outscoring Collins.

I don't see why Hogan isn't a modern footballer - you've just thrown that in with no real back-up at all.

We need options up front because we're almost entirely reliant on Robinson at present.

[Supreme feet]

I don't see why Hogan isn't a modern footballer - you've just thrown that in with no real back-up at all.


He strikes me as an old-school forward who would work well in a 1990s 4-4-2. A David Kelly/David Connolly type. Finishes when it's put on a plate for him, or out of a goalmouth scramble, but won't create his own chances, beat a man, hold the ball up, or drop deep to link with the midfield. No real physicality, skill or pace. I just don't see it with him at all.

But if he goes on a genuinely impressive goalscoring run and does come into the squad, it should be at the expense of Keane or Collins, not one of the young lads.

[pineapple stu]

But how long do we keep up with Idah/Connolly/Parrott when they're not delivering the goods? They get plenty of exposure at club level so having them in the national team doesn't really improve them. Hypothetically, what would it take for you to drop "one of the young lads" from the squad?

Given our poor form under Kenny and the shakiness of our recovery (in that it's almost entirely dependent on Robinson finding a bit of form), we need the best players available to us. I don't see the value in prioritising players who may come good in a couple of years over others who are scoring now.

[Supreme feet]

Connolly has been dropped, and Parrott hasn't started for us since the Azerbaijan game, when both were poor. The beneficiaries have been McGrath, Knight and Ogbene, who have added a lot to our attack. Idah is worth persevering with. If Connolly starts scoring for Boro, I'd call him back up. Parrott can go back to the 21s for a while.

In debates like these, I just think of Trap's selections ten years ago. Persisting with limited journeymen like Kelly/McShane, O'Dea, Green, Cox, Keogh and Folan ahead of promising young lads like Coleman, Clark, McCarthy, Brady, McClean and Long. Hoolahan wasn't young, but he was similarly ignored. Picking on the young players' errors and shortcomings, yet persisting with and lauding ineffective players who were never going to improve. Going back further, think of Kerr bringing in a 33-year-old Graham Kavanagh to plod away in midfield, and leaving Steven Reid on the bench. Or Mick, not figuring out how to use Duff, and leaving him on the bench for Kevin Kilbane for three years.

Conservatism with young lads; not trusting them, writing them off too early, and persisting with 'never-will-be' players instead - it's what infuriates me about Irish football (and rugby), and what I find refreshing about Kenny's policy.

[sadloserkid]

Maybe Hogan is the new Wes Hoolahan. :)

[pineapple stu]

Conservatism with young lads; not trusting them, writing them off too early, and persisting with 'never-will-be' players instead - it's what infuriates me about Irish football (and rugby), and what I find refreshing about Kenny's policy.
Nobody's writing anyone off. If we want to talk about "things that infuriate me", it's the idea that criticism of players promoted to the senior squad ahead of their time and performing accordingly constitutes "writing them off"

The fact is we've just had our longest-ever barren run of goalscoring form. Amazingly enough, it coincided with some of our worst-ever results. Then along came a 26+ bog-standard Championship striker who'd never made an impression in 20 caps before, and he bangs in six goals and Kenny's job is saved. If Robinson is out, what then? We need to use the March friendlies to look at more options. And someone who has recovered from a very nasty injury (cruciate knee - out for almost two years) and who has recovered since then to be a decent goalscorer at a poor side can't just be dismissed because of how he played under a different manager in a different setup.

Idah/Connolly/Parrott aren't remotely at the stage Coleman, etc were btw. Coleman made his debut during his first full Premier League season and has been a regular more or less since. Ditto McClean. Brady was actually capped before he had played a senior game, but became a regular when he started getting regular first-team ball with Hull. Shane Long was capped during his second full season. James McCarthy was capped during his first Premier League season at 19, and would have been a regular earlier on had he not gone AWOL a few times. Coleman, McClean and McCarthy had a couple of seasons of full-time football under their belts at that stage in other leagues (LoI, SPL)

By comparison, Idah/Connolly/Parrott are taking much longer to establish themselves at senior level, yet are getting far more international time. Again, I'll nod back to our awful goalscoring record for the first 15 or so matches under Kenny...

[Supreme feet]

We're going to go around in circles with this.

Robinson is different from Hogan - he has played Premier League football and scored against big teams. He is quick, skilful, and makes good runs. There was always a good player in there - he just needed a run in the team, within a settled formation, with players around him feeding him and passing forwards with confidence, rather than playing nervous, safe square balls, in an unsettled team, as we'd been doing under Kenny before the Portugal away game.

We have to resort to picking Championship, League One players, and fringe EPL players. I don't like it, but it's a fact of life now. The Championship is a mixed bag - old-school hoofball teams, and modern, technical sides. Same is true of the players who do well there - you have Collins, who is a half-decent Championship striker because of brute strength and awkwardness, but has none of the necessary qualities of an international forward - technique, athleticism, pace. Then you have Ogbene in League One, who is a weapon at international level, and made an immediate impact against Hungary when he came on - because his qualities seem to suit the pace and style of international football. Ronan Curtis is coveted by several Championship sides because he's a big, fit lad who scores the odd goal - but he's useless at international level because his first touch is appalling. McGrath is a much more effective international player than the likes of O'Dowda, despite playing in a weaker league.

When you're short of top-level talent, you have to make judgement calls on players' technical and physical qualities, and suitability for international football, rather than the level they're playing at. Like Curtis, O'Dowda, Horgan, Aidan O'Brien, Maguire, etc, I just don't think Hogan's ever going to have the qualities to do well or make a difference at this level. He's another Alan Lee/Leon Best.

[pineapple stu]

I still think you're being very retrospective with regards Robinson - there's a good player there because he scored a few goals recently. Hogan hasn't been given the chance. Heck, even Collins (whom I don't really rate) has at least got a couple of games and scored.

If we were selecting solid Championship or PL players ahead of Hogan, that'd be fine. But there's simply nothing there to show that Connolly/Idah/Parrott aren't another Alan Lee/Leon Best either. When you're as stuck for options as we are, you can't dismiss players because they've never played in the Premier League, and hope that some young players come good at some stage. I don't really want third tier players in the squad either, but I'd be interested to see what Keane has to offer because we are desperate for something new up front.

[Supreme feet]

Will Keane is interesting, I agree - he seems technically sound, and a bit of a physical unit too. Could be a bit of David McGoldrick about him.

[ifk101]

I see it as a choice between Hogan and Collins, rather Hogan and one of Idah/ Connolly/ Parrott, simply because Hogan and Collins are similar type of players. I don't see our style of play/ formation/ player selection as fixed - we are far more adaptable and flexible than previously. Hence why the choice is Hogan or Collins as the pick of similar players lessens the ability to be adaptable and flexible.

Btw there isn't a reliance on Robinson - Robinson has benefitted from more fluidity in our recent play.

[Snapshot]

I still think you're being very retrospective with regards Robinson - there's a good player there because he scored a few goals recently. Hogan hasn't been given the chance. Heck, even Collins (whom I don't really rate) has at least got a couple of games and scored.

If we were selecting solid Championship or PL players ahead of Hogan, that'd be fine. But there's simply nothing there to show that Connolly/Idah/Parrott aren't another Alan Lee/Leon Best either. When you're as stuck for options as we are, you can't dismiss players because they've never played in the Premier League, and hope that some young players come good at some stage. I don't really want third tier players in the squad either, but I'd be interested to see what Keane has to offer because we are desperate for something new up front.
Well said, again. Checking Kenny's squad for the final WC qualifier against Luxembourg - Keane and Hogan have scored nearly twice as much (23) as the other six forwards combined. If that trend continues, it would be beyond ridiculous to ignore it.

[pineapple stu]

Btw there isn't a reliance on Robinson - Robinson has benefitted from more fluidity in our recent play.
But could Idah/Parrott/Connolly really have scored six in those three games?

Robinson relieved a hell of a lot of pressure early in Baku when he just had a go from the edge of the box - no-one else was really taking that on. He had a ging again later in the half and the keeper dived over the ball - but if you don't shoot, you don't score. So I see Robinson as being the one forward we have at the moment who's shown he's not scared to have a pot.

[ifk101]

But could Idah/Parrott/Connolly really have scored six in those three games?

Maybe they could have scored more? Robinson did miss a few scorable chances in Baku ....


Robinson relieved a hell of a lot of pressure early in Baku when he just had a go from the edge of the box - no-one else was really taking that on. He had a ging again later in the half and the keeper dived over the ball - but if you don't shoot, you don't score. So I see Robinson as being the one forward we have at the moment who's shown he's not scared to have a pot.

Sure, he had a good game. But I see that as a product of how the team were set up to play and not equating to a reliance on Robinson to shoot/ score the goals.

[pineapple stu]

Maybe they could have scored more?
But I don't see any evidence of that given how remarkably goal-shy all three have been in their careers to date.

Idah hasn't come remotely close to a goal as yet. Connolly has a bit of nip about him and was it him hit the post in Slovakia? Or was it Browne? And Parrott has done feck all except score against a tiring Andorra side.

I think the pressure that early goal in Baku relieved is a big factor in our recent uptick in form.

Which scorable chances did Robinson miss? And in any event, having a go is a percentages game - you score some, you miss some, but if you don't have a shot in the first place (like the others) then you definitely won't score.

[ifk101]

But I don't see any evidence of that given how remarkably goal-shy all three have been in their careers to date.

Robinson had 1 goal in 20 odd senior caps prior to scoring in Azerbaijan. Remarkably goal-shy, no?

[Diggs246]

Hogan is worth another shot
He is fast and I would have him ahead of the rest of the lads in a one on one situation. I'm not saying he is better but in that scenario I would have him

[pineapple stu]

Robinson had 1 goal in 20 odd senior caps prior to scoring in Azerbaijan. Remarkably goal-shy, no?
True, but he was at least a regular starter and in-form as well, scoring 7 goals in 9 starts between the end of the PL season and the start of the Championship season.

Which puts him apart from the other three, who as I say have hardly come close to a goal at senior level except against a tiring part-time Andorra team.

Or put it this way - what changed between the dreadful 1-1 home draw performance against Azerbaijan in September, and the rather decent one in Baku? The front line is an obvious one - Idah/Connolly/Parrott started at home, and Idah/Horgan/Robinson started away. An early lead meant Azerbaijan couldn't sit back as much as they might otherwise have had too, which helped us - that was down to Robinson. And when Azerbaijan were starting to get back into things from the half-hour mark, Robinson again popped up to kill the game. Idah could have scored in those games too, but didn't.

[seanfhear]

I just got the feeling from Hogan that he just didn’t seem to think / show that playing for the Republic of Ireland suited him all that much and maybe because he had previous injury situations that he was a bit careful with himself ~ Maybe he was / is right. Is it really worth jeopardising your fitness to play International football ?

[ifk101]

True, but he was at least a regular starter and in-form as well, scoring 7 goals in 9 starts between the end of the PL season and the start of the Championship season.
Which puts him apart from the other three, who as I say have hardly come close to a goal at senior level except against a tiring part-time Andorra team.

Robinson had not scored in the two months prior to Azerbaijan.

Maybe he was playing well at the time, but he wasn’t in goal scoring form and his international scoring record to date was remarkably goal-shy. Taken on individual merits, there was little suggestion he was on the verge of a goal scoring spree.


Or put it this way - what changed between the dreadful 1-1 home draw performance against Azerbaijan in September, and the rather decent one in Baku? The front line is an obvious one - Idah/Connolly/Parrott started at home, and Idah/Horgan/Robinson started away. An early lead meant Azerbaijan couldn't sit back as much as they might otherwise have had too, which helped us - that was down to Robinson. And when Azerbaijan were starting to get back into things from the half-hour mark, Robinson again popped up to kill the game. Idah could have scored in those games too, but didn't.

Or put it this way. What has changed to make a team not scoring goals to a team scoring goals? And does this equate to a reliance on Robinson who was part of both the team not scoring goals and the team scoring goals? Is it the choice of individuals or is it how the team is set up to play? Are the goals down to Robinson the individual finding a goal scoring touch (which his career to date suggests he does not have), or is he the coincidental beneficiary of the team’s approach/ set-up?

Is it beyond the realms of possibility that Idah/ Connolly/ Parrott are incapable of scoring/ replicating Robinson’s scoring against Azerbaijan/ Qatar/ Luxembourg? If a remarkably goal-shy player like Robinson can, why not the stated trio? Do you not believe they have the football ability to score goals against Azerbaijan/ Qatar/ Luxembourg?

As this is the Scott Hogan thread, I’d have no objection to Hogan coming into the squad but at the expense of Collins due to the similarities of what I believe they can contribute on the pitch. :-)

[pineapple stu]

I think the thing is that Idah/Connolly/Parrott did play against Azerbaijan and didn't score. Idah in fact didn't score twice. They didn't even come close to scoring.

Why not? Well, it's a small enough sample - but one argument is that they're not good enough. Sporadic sub appearances making no impact at club level is less useful for us than someone who's a regular starter, even if his goalscoring record isn't stellar. It's why I don't really see why Hogan should come into the squad for Collins - why not Parrott, who's done bugger all for us and is struggling to make a mark in the third tier?

What changed to make a team not scoring goals to a team scoring goals? One key thing for me is that Robinson scored so early (7th minute) that it changed the nature of the game. Azerbaijan couldn't sit back, frustrate us, and hit us on the counter - instead, they had to come forward a bit and leave gaps for us to exploit. He did the same thing against Qatar. We only really out-played Luxembourg once we went 1-0 up (albeit much later on - and after the ineffective Idah had been subbed)

But to go 1-0 up more regularly (and even if you take it that Robinson's international spree was a continuation of club form, it's clear we can't rely on it longer-term - he mayn't have scored in the two months beforehand, but he was still our in-form striker), we need better striking options than we have now. So I think we need to cast the net wide here and not keep hoping the same young players are suddenly going to come good.

[Supreme feet]

If Kenny does call up Hogan, and he scores and/or looks a genuine attacking threat, then great! I'll happily eat my words and forgive him for his previous half-arsed displays.

But if he gets called up, and continues to be as ineffective as he was in his previous caps, and Keane doesn't turn out to be up to the pitch of international football either, what happens? Do we give them another 5-10 caps to find their feet? Do we back Idah, Connolly and Parrott again? Do we go even younger again, to Odubeko, Oko-Flex and Ferguson?

Or do we keep scraping further down the barrel of grizzled, journeyman strikers, in the desperate hope that something might fit? Padraig Amond? Cillian Sheridan? Conor Sammon? :eek:

[Exgrad]

Please stop trying to make Scott Hogan happen.

[pineapple stu]

If Kenny does call up Hogan, and he scores and/or looks a genuine attacking threat, then great! I'll happily eat my words and forgive him for his previous half-arsed displays.

But if he gets called up, and continues to be as ineffective as he was in his previous caps, and Keane doesn't turn out to be up to the pitch of international football either, what happens? Do we give them another 5-10 caps to find their feet? Do we back Idah, Connolly and Parrott again? Do we go even younger again, to Odubeko, Oko-Flex and Ferguson?

Or do we keep scraping further down the barrel of grizzled, journeyman strikers, in the desperate hope that something might fit? Padraig Amond? Cillian Sheridan? Conor Sammon? :eek:
That I don't know. But we can't really depend on Callum Robinson keeping in form, and no-one else (bar Shane Duffy actually) is really delivering the goods.

Scully at Lincoln is the probably obvious next one to look at. Of course you're keeping an eye on the younger guys to see if they break through at club level, but there's no point trying to force that.

Though as you mention UCD forwards, why not bump Colm Whelan up from the 21s? :) (OK, don't do that quite yet. But we are in dire straits at present)

[samhaydenjr]

Please stop trying to make Scott Hogan happen.

Why? He's our top scorer in The Championship, four ahead of CR7, looking like he'll put up a number comparable to an average Patrick Bamford season at that level.

[SkStu]

Please stop trying to make Scott Hogan happen.

To be fair, Scott Hogan should be asked to stop trying to make Scott Hogan happen. He’s doing really well. He should be back in the running if he fits in the formation; I don’t think we’re building a team around or anything!

I don’t think we’re in dire straits, P-Stu. If the trio you talk about weren’t such high potential I would agree but we can assume one or two of them will come good in the next year or so and we seem to be able to rely on Robbo, Ogbene and Duffy to keep us ticking over on the goal scoring charts. For now.

[ifk101]

The goal last night was typical of what a Scott Hogan/ James Collins brings – the fox in the 6 yard box type :-). TBF I don’t see Idah/ Connolly/ Parrott getting those goals so there is a value there. The question is their overall contribution to the team and whether there is a need to have more than one of a Scott Hogan/ James Collins type in the squad.

[Diggs246]

He is 29 and in his prime

He is worth another look and lets be honest we have none scoring regular at that level or above

[pineapple stu]

I don’t think we’re in dire straits, P-Stu. If the trio you talk about weren’t such high potential I would agree but we can assume one or two of them will come good in the next year or so and we seem to be able to rely on Robbo, Ogbene and Duffy to keep us ticking over on the goal scoring charts. For now.
Well there's a few assumptions in there in fairness!

By this time next year we could be relegated from the Nations League for example. Can Robinson keep up his scoring run? Hopefully, but his club stats suggest it may have been a purple patch (against weak opposition). Ogbene - lively, but that goal in Azerbaijan was farcical keeping and I'm not sure he has the consistency yet to be a regular scorer.

We're not far away from a record run of seven matches in a row without scoring so I don't think we can be complacent quite yet...

[seanfhear]

How come generally, Foxes in the Boxes are rarely as profligate as Foxes in Chicken Coops ?

[SkStu]

Well there's a few assumptions in there in fairness!

By this time next year we could be relegated from the Nations League for example. Can Robinson keep up his scoring run? Hopefully, but his club stats suggest it may have been a purple patch (against weak opposition). Ogbene - lively, but that goal in Azerbaijan was farcical keeping and I'm not sure he has the consistency yet to be a regular scorer.

We're not far away from a record run of seven matches in a row without scoring so I don't think we can be complacent quite yet...

to be fair... i took your assumptions, countered with a couple of assumptions of my own which resulted in the above response that is laden with assumptions :D

We might score plenty, we might not. A fair summary. :)

[JR89]

He is 29 and in his prime

He is worth another look and lets be honest we have none scoring regular at that level or above

Might get a game against Lithuania with Kenny talking about developing depth within the squad. But can also see us bringing in lads who'll most likely play as one of the two behind the CF (Harness, Sykes, and Ronan), and you'll see Robinson being pushed up to replace Idah mid game like in Luxembourg when Knight came on and in Azerbaijan when Chiedozie came on for Idah.

In Qatar and Portugal games Robinson was trusted with being that CF after finding his shooting boats in October. We didn't even have an out and out 9 in the November squad but could change now that one is finding a bit of form and scores a couple of goals every couple of months.

[pineapple stu]

to be fair... i took your assumptions, countered with a couple of assumptions of my own which resulted in the above response that is laden with assumptions :D

We might score plenty, we might not. A fair summary. :)
Well this is true!

I guess my assumption is let's not assume and let's instead assume that Hogan can play a bit of ball and assume that the more options we have the better, assuming Hogan turns out to be an option at all.

Sound fair? :p

[Trequartista20]

Goalscoring has obviously been a problem for us for some time and Hogan probably deserves a call-up on merit, if he can continue his recent form up until the next round of fixtures.

The same can be said for Keane.

[irishfan86]

Experience counts in international football. Let the likes of Parrott do his developing at club level IMO. I'd like to see Hogan further, and I prefer him to Collins for example for mobility reasons. I'm not suggesting we start him necessarily but he's good squad option.

[Razors left peg]

Experience counts in international football. Let the likes of Parrott do his developing at club level IMO. I'd like to see Hogan further, and I prefer him to Collins for example for mobility reasons. I'm not suggesting we start him necessarily but he's good squad option.
If its either Collins or Hogan Id go with Hogan but wouldnt care if Hogan ever played for us again either. Hes a very average player whos on a decent streak right now but weve seen him plenty where he was on bad streaks too.

[SkStu]

Well this is true!

I guess my assumption is let's not assume and let's instead assume that Hogan can play a bit of ball and assume that the more options we have the better, assuming Hogan turns out to be an option at all.

Sound fair? :p

Okie doke. We'll leave it there, so. :p

[samhaydenjr]

If its either Collins or Hogan Id go with Hogan but wouldnt care if Hogan ever played for us again either. Hes a very average player whos on a decent streak right now but weve seen him plenty where he was on bad streaks too.

I don't know - looking over his career stats, I think he has a reasonable record for the most part, apart from the ill-fated Villa move and, maybe his first full season at Birmingham - OK, that is four seasons, but he seems to be settled at Birmingham now and looks capable of multiple double-figure seasons going forward. He scored 17 in 33 league games when he was 21 for Rochdale, before his move to Brentford, where he immediately lost nearly two seasons to injury, coming back at the end of 15/16 to score 7 in 7 and carrying that form forward to 16/17 scoring 14 in 25. And then came the Villa move. But just when it appeared his career might drift, he got himself back on track in 19/20, scoring 10 in 30 in two loan spells, which included 3 at Stoke, playing mostly garbage minutes

Even for us, while at first glance he hasn't scored in eight caps, he's only been on the pitch for fewer minutes than three games' worth, so I'd be happy to give him another shot to be one of our stopgap forwards for the next campaign or two

[Charlie Darwin]

I think we're probably all guessing a bit because Kenny knows exactly what he wants from players and doesn't seem to rate Hogan too highly, but it seems like Hogan is probably competing with Collins and maybe Long for being the guy who comes off the bench when you're throwing the kitchen sink.

What I think links all the players named, Robinson, Idah, Connolly, Parrott, etc, is they all get involved in every aspect of play from build-up forwards, which seems to be integral to what Kenny wants/needs in his team. I'd be surprised to see Hogan ever start just like I'd be surprised to see Collins start a big game going forward.

[geysir]

I think we're probably all guessing a bit because Kenny knows exactly what he wants from players and doesn't seem to rate Hogan too highly, but it seems like Hogan is probably competing with Collins and maybe Long for being the guy who comes off the bench when you're throwing the kitchen sink.

What I think links all the players named, Robinson, Idah, Connolly, Parrott, etc, is they all get involved in every aspect of play from build-up forwards, which seems to be integral to what Kenny wants/needs in his team. I'd be surprised to see Hogan ever start just like I'd be surprised to see Collins start a big game going forward.Why do you pollute your good sensible post with the infelicitous but trendy "going forward" add on?

[Charlie Darwin]

Why do you pollute your good sensible post with the infelicitous but trendy "going forward" add on?
A good point well made, but I actually meant it in its literal sense for once! I can't remember Hogan starting a game for Kenny but I wasn't sure so I stuck it in as a failsafe.

[paul_oshea]

Just scored the second against derby. Poor defending but decent finish to the corner across goal.