Players In Stand off

[thecorner]

welcome back scotty ;)

[wws]

the corner where are you getting these quotes from???????????????

[thecorner]

todays evening echo



http://www.eveningecho.ie/pdf/back.pdf

[patsh]

I posted pretty much the same thing over on the city forum:

For a few months now, a lot of topics have featured posts criticising and attacking Brian Lennox.

I have defended the man, based on my knowledge of what he has done for this club, his openly expressed ambitions for the club, and the improvements he has made to the club as a whole.

I didn't start this thread to have a series of posts attacking and defending him, and it all going around in a circle. What I would like to see posted are some rational arguments either for or against his chairmanship, and ideas and/or solutions to the demands so many of us supporters are making.

This is what I think:
I don't know about the financial situation of CCFC, but I'm pretty sure that City is not flush with money.
On the one hand, I would say that we have significant outgoings in wages, ground rents, travel expenses. On the other, we do have some very good sponsorship, quite good crowds at times.
B. Lennox is a successful business man, but he runs a small to medium sized business, and does not have vast reserves to pour into City. I think he wants people to come in and put money into the club, but there doesn't appear to be many willing to do this.
Unless and until somebody pours a lot of money into this club, I think players, coaches and fans will have to be patient and accept that we what we have is what can be afforded at the moment. I don't know of anyway of getting a lot of money into the club, or how a the training facilities can be built quickly.

People are suggesting the names of different clubs and saying how good their facilities are, but what else do they know about them?
Are these facilities available to CCFC?
Are they affordable?
Have you priced them and gone and told the club about them?

Everybody is open to criticism, but how would people do things better?
Who wants to take on different tasks to raise money, or save money for the club?
Who is willing to DO something, rather than take potshots at those involved and complaining?

What is it that you think B. Lennox is not doing that he should be doing, how should he do it, and how would it be financed?

Ideas?

[Peadar]

todays evening echo


Why didn't you just copy and paste it, like this? :D

[thecorner]

Why didn't you just copy and paste it, like this? :D


Taken from De Echo. (http://www.eveningecho.ie/pdf/back.pdf)


echo web page wasnt updated when actual paper came through the door ;)

also cant view inside pages

[Peadar]

Also taken from todays Echo.


CORK City have approved two new backroom staff appointments today.
The club have appointed Tommy Enright as the club’s official masseur,
while Eileen O’Keeffe has been appointed as the team’s new physiotherapist
for the coming season.
Tommy Enright works with the Cork senior footballers, while Eileen O’Keeffe has worked with the Munster U21 rugby team.
The announcement came as players voiced concerns over training facilities.

[thecorner]

we now have a lot of unhappy players that no way we could afford to lose

question is what is lennox gonna do to make it all happy again

[pete]

Jeez that sounds like about 2 months worth of rant there...

I couldn't see Lennox ever get to do anything he doesn't want to do. If he wants to sell up he'll do it but not under pressure from inside or outside the club.

[pete]

I think the players have made a bad move in taking on Lennox in the press. he has proven previously that he won't also the Club to be held to ransom by players.

I'm sure the players have some valid points but I can't see how they think they've gone the right way about it.

[Éanna]

If he wants to sell up he'll do it but not under pressure from inside or outside the club.
thats the key to it. And to those people who are trying to put him under pressure- get lost, we don't want you :mad:

[yiddo]

thats the key to it. And to those people who are trying to put him under pressure- get lost, we don't want you :mad:

Anyone think that Pat Dolan is one of the people putting Lennox under pressure for his (Dolan's) own ends ?

[thecorner]

thats the key to it. And to those people who are trying to put him under pressure- get lost, we don't want you :mad:

so who gave you the right to say who is and who isnt wanted in the cross ;)

[patsh]

Well its obviously co-ordinated that the players all said the same thing at the same time. Their own idea, or "encouraged" by someone?

[Yoda01]

since we moved from bishopstown, the club have been talking about developing there own pitch and training facilities, what progress have we really made on this over the last number of years ! none ! if we truly are to be the biggest club in ireland surely we need to be moving in this direction off the field.

[Longfordian]

Having read his quotes you'd have to think Lennox is pretty píssed off with the players right now, that quote about how it would be nice if they went out and won something for a change and stopped complaining said a lot. They always say you should never wash your dirty linen in public, and to be honest I can't see their manager not having given his express or implied permission for them to go public. Too many of them have come forward for him not to be aware of it before they did it. Not good form from Dolan if that is the case in my opinion

[thecorner]

Having read his quotes you'd have to think Lennox is pretty píssed off with the players right now,

and vice-versa ;)

[Macy]

Well comments from Dolan and the players recently certainly smack of getting their excuses in early. Seems like Lennox has issued a put up or shut up to the team....

[thecorner]

ok the bishopstown affair bout the water was bad
bad????????????????

its a disgrace..

FFS they have hot showers in the a.u.l.

professional footballers shouldnt have to put up with that tripe

[Éanna]

I can't see their manager not having given his express or implied permission for them to go public. Too many of them have come forward for him not to be aware of it before they did it. Not good form from Dolan if that is the case in my opinion
I agree.
One of 2 things has happened here:
1. Dolan knew nothing about this, in which case the players responsible should be fined/punished for going to the papers.
2. Dolan DID know about it, in which case is nothing short of a disgrace, and it raises serious questions about his integrity.

[thecorner]

all it was that somebody forgot to turn on the immersion :D . a honest mistake. it is definitly strange how they all went to different papers with the story of lack of facilities. why not go to lennox 1st and talk to him and find out what is happening behind the scenes in trying to fix this prob. going to the papers is only going to create tension in the camp and fighting among themselves and moral will be even lower.

went to lennox and couldnt get problem solved. has to be highlighted then . what better way than each going to a different newspaper.. drastic times call for drastic measures



to quote casegrande from corkcityfc.ie


Lennox is telling the players to get out there and win the League! You don't win leagues when your pre-season training is a game against Home Farm on a cabbage patch with no showers!

[Peadar]

Dolan DID know about it, in which case is nothing short of a disgrace, and it raises serious questions about his integrity.


Dolan Out? :D

[thecorner]

2. Dolan DID know about it, in which case is nothing short of a disgrace, and it raises serious questions about his integrity.
feckin hell eanna....its all dolans fault now :eek:

look closer to home an all the blame has to be layed with lennox

at least dolan has got balls and ambition... thats one thing that cant be said about lennox

[Éanna]

Dolan Out? :D
I won't rush to judgement, because I don't know the facts. All I do know is that a number of players are NOT in agreement with the course of action being taken by those who went to the papers, and are very angry about it. If Dolan is allowing some players to do what they want, and speak "on behalf" of the others- what kind of way is that to manage a football club? Dolan has done a great job as manager for the last 2 years. I just want to see him get on with managing- no more, no less.

[thecorner]

I won't rush to judgement, because I don't know the facts. All I do know is that a number of players are NOT in agreement with the course of action being taken by those who went to the papers, and are very angry about it. If Dolan is allowing some players to do what they want, and speak "on behalf" of the others- what kind of way is that to manage a football club? Dolan has done a great job as manager for the last 2 years. I just want to see him get on with managing- no more, no less.



dont believe these posts about dolan now

open your eyes and take off the blinkers...

we have a chairman thats doing an inadequate job

[Éanna]

dont believe these posts about dolan now
As I said, I don't know whether to believe it or not.


open your eyes and take off the blinkers...
no blinkers here. you know me well enough to know that.


we have a chairman thats doing an inadequate job
Thats a matter of opinion. I think we have a Chairman who's doing a very good job in very difficult circumstances, and that job is being made more difficult by his employees whinging to the papers

[thecorner]

, and that job is being made more difficult by his employees whinging to the papers

and if he is the chairman you believe he is, he should be above gooing to the papers

its all well and good players going to the papers(maybe hastily) but when your chairman goes, there is something wrong.

he shouldnt have to use the media in his slagging match

chairmen should do this behind closed doors.. he is involved in business long enough to know this

[thecorner]

he didnt go to the papers 1st it was the players. he is giving his side and if he didnt u would be the 1st to say why is he staying silent. no win situation so!

he replied to the players...no matter what the circumstances are, a chairman should never go public criticisng players... only adds fuel to the fire

[Éanna]

he replied to the players...no matter what the circumstances are, a chairman should never go public criticisng players... only adds fuel to the fire
I don't think ANYONE should have gone to the papers, Brian Lennox included. Some people were offering the excuse that the players felt they had no option- maybe Brian felt the same? None of us know whats really going on, but I for one just feel like banging all their heads together- now is no time for egos.

[thecorner]

"if you ask me the players dont know how lucky they are to be making a decent living out of football, i wish they would just get on with the job in hand and try to win some silverware this season" wouldnt go down well with players

"to be honest,i dont want to hear any more excuses before a ball is kicked this season"basically telling them to shut up

"i cant really understand the players attitudes when we have rochestown pk,stiofan niofa,deerpark,mardyke and venues like garryduff,the farm and bishopstown at our disposal" cant believe hes actually boasting about our training facilities

[thecorner]

i wouldnt call that criticising
id call it adding fuel to the fire

do it behind closed doors

players meeting a la last year with georgie and all air their grievances

[thecorner]

showers :D

[Éanna]

"if you ask me the players dont know how lucky they are to be making a decent living out of football, i wish they would just get on with the job in hand and try to win some silverware this season" wouldnt go down well with players
it certainly won't go down well with some of them, but I agree 100% with him.



"to be honest,i dont want to hear any more excuses before a ball is kicked this season"basically telling them to shut up

Its about time he said that- not just to the players, but to Dolan too. No bull, no spin, no excuses- just do your job lads. **** knows they're paid well enough for it.


"i cant really understand the players attitudes when we have rochestown pk,stiofan niofa,deerpark,mardyke and venues like garryduff,the farm and bishopstown at our disposal" cant believe hes actually boasting about our training facilities
wouldn't agree with him on this, but I think the point he's making is that its not as bad as other articles suggested- if you looked at Gamble's interview in the Sun, he seemed to say we ONLY trained in Deerpark, which is the worst of the lot.

[Éanna]

id call it adding fuel to the fire

do it behind closed doors

players meeting a la last year with georgie and all air their grievances
agree with what biy. Maybe he's decided to show them that he's the boss. And I don't blame him

[Éanna]

I personally spoke to one player today about all the stuff in the papers, and he was not in agreement with what has been done. Similarly, the Echo and REDFM both reported that some players they contacted were unaware of the decision to go public about this, nor did they support it. IMO, this is the most serious issue of the lot. If there is a split in the squad over this, it will do more damage than any bumpy pitch or any cold shower. What I want to know is:
1. Why did the players who spoke to the press claim to be speaking for ALL the players, when that is clearly NOT the case?
2. Was there a vote taken among players, or is this just a few hotheads mouthing off?
3. If the problems are as bad as they say they are, why are some players happy just to get on with it?
4. Did Dolan know about this?
5. If yes, did he approve of it.
6. If no, will he punish the players responsible for a serious breach of discipline, and damaging squad morale?

[Éanna]

And another thing. If the players have a problem, why did they not bring in the PFAI, instead of going public. Surely if they wre talking about striking, they;d have to bring the PFAI. they could have asked someone to mediate instead of going to the press.

[Éanna]

well?

[Gary]

I went for no, simply because it seems to be so co-ordinated. What short memories they have -

George - Going nowhere with Port Vale.

Flynn - Going absolutely nowhere with Peterborough.

Gamble - Barnet wouldnt offer him a contract in the Conference.

S O Flynn - Limerick????

They would all want to get a grip, or just leave.

[SSS]

4. Did Dolan know about this?


Listening to Dolan on BRB last week and reading his comments in Inside Cork, I think Dolan is the one trying to get rid of Lennox.
He is putting pressure, in public, on the Chairman and some players have now joined in the chorus.
It was very telling that John O'Flynn was quoted as saying that the players are right behind Dolan in his calling for better facilities. In a reasonable scenario, the players would be behind Dolan and Dolan behind Lennox but I don't get that vibe.

I am very disappointed in the two Flynn's in particular as the club stood by them both through long injury layoffs.

Reading Lennox in thr Echo implies that he was not engaged by the players before their outcry which would undermine their justification for going public.

[pete]

imo i think the club just needs proper playing pitches to train on and a clubhouse with proper running water that is hot. the have Rochestown park 4 the weight training and machines.

what do ye think?

I'm sure they have that already? If the GAA are using Deerpark must be some sort of facilities there?

Maybe this is as a result of lack of 1st team coaches in pre season. Not that a few appointments this week maybe organisation will improve?

[pete]

I've only picked up the quotes here from players but would I be correct in assuming that the players quoted didn't claim they spoke for the rest of the squad?
If they saying they speak for others when is not the case then not a good sign.

[Éanna]

Listening to Dolan on BRB last week and reading his comments in Inside Cork, I think Dolan is the one trying to get rid of Lennox.
He is putting pressure, in public, on the Chairman and some players have now joined in the chorus.
It was very telling that John O'Flynn was quoted as saying that the players are right behind Dolan in his calling for better facilities. In a reasonable scenario, the players would be behind Dolan and Dolan behind Lennox but I don't get that vibe.

I am very disappointed in the two Flynn's in particular as the club stood by them both through long injury layoffs.

Reading Lennox in thr Echo implies that he was not engaged by the players before their outcry which would undermine their justification for going public.
I would be inclined to agree with you. Its all speculation of course, but it all makes sense.

[A face]

They would all want to get a grip, or just leave.

Not alot of Irish clubs would turn them away !!

And they should have to worry about facilities, it should be the last thing on their minds.

[Counting Crow]

The whole thing is a sorry mess.

As I don't know the full truth (on either side) I am willing to suspend judgement - just let them all know that there is 4 weeks to kick off so get on with it.

They owe it to us to get it sorted and ACT LIKE THE BIGGEST CLUB IN THE COUNTRY :mad: just like they've been telling us for the past 3 years.

[Fair_play_boy]

Are we seeing Saipan by the Lee???? :eek:

[Counting Crow]

What appears to be happening here is that the Club and players are starting to believe their own hype.......... :rolleyes:

Lennox thinks he .....Abramovich

Dolan (who has been strangely quite in all of this :confused: ) thinks he's ..... Alex Ferguson

(some of) The palyers think their (fcuking) ...... Brazil - Stephen O'Flynn for **** sake played 3 games last season, while the club nursed him back from a serious injury...........he should be thanking his lucky stars he's allowed/able to step into "cold showers" or play on "cabbage patch pitches". Do it on the pitch first son, before moaning.

The only true fact here is that we, the fans, KNOW we are as passionate as ..... The Kop or The Jungle etc..........enough said :mad:

[Éanna]

Lennox thinks he .....Abramovich
thats the only thing I'd disagree with in your post

[harry crumb]

Yes there are definate similarities with Saipan here.

Like in Saipan there is a problem with communications. Lennox et al must take some responsibility for this.

The players are making their concerns known. They know better than Lennox how the training is going.

Whatever happens it has been a PR disaster again for City.

[Counting Crow]

Can you imagine it?

Lennox up at the front with the driver - silent.

George and the O'Flynn's at the back flicking paper with elastic bands at him and Dolan.

Gamble asking George can he sit on the back seat with him (trying to be "one of the lads"). Dan Murray sitting in the seat behind Lennox ('cause he's captain) but sniggering every time a paper arrow hits Lennox on the back of the neck. Looking back at "the lads" wishing Woodsie had been offered the Captaincy last year instead of him :rolleyes:

Colin T, Doyler, Woodsie (wishing he'd been offered the Captaincy instead of Murray last year), Hoggie & a few of the younger lads sitting in the middle of the bus ducking those stupid fcuking paper arrows, wishing those plonkers at either end of the bus would grow up and make up.

The driver wishing he'd taken the job of driving the pilgrims to Knock instead of these lot to Ballybofey - the old ones are so much better crack. :rolleyes:

[harry crumb]

Very Good :D