Fixture changes.

[White Horse]

Apparently this the FAI's proposed October schedule for Dundalk:

8th – Sligo (H)
11th – Cork (H)
14th – Rovers (A)
17th – Longford (A)
20th – Zenit (H)
23rd – Bohs (H)
25th – Pats (A)
28th – Galway (H)


Crazy stuff.

[pineapple stu]

What's the alternative?

[swinfordfc]

Apparently this the FAI's proposed October schedule for Dundalk:

8th – Sligo (H)
11th – Cork (H)
14th – Rovers (A)
17th – Longford (A)
20th – Zenit (H)
23rd – Bohs (H)
25th – Pats (A)
28th – Galway (H)


Crazy stuff.

Nuts!!!!!

[White Horse]

What's the alternative?

Extend the season.

[pineapple stu]

It's been proposed alright.

But how do you compensate for clubs with an extra week on the season (and an extra week's wages) because of Dundalk? Does Cork's season extend too? How do you compensate for clubs who lose on gate receipts because games are being moved to suit Dundalk?

Dundalk presumably asked for postponements, so all this seems to be something they should have planned before surely?

[Real ale Madrid]

You could just push the Dundalk / Cork games to the Bank Holiday Monday. But with Dundalk playing Zenit the following Thursday away maybe that was not an option.

[pineapple stu]

But that could cause Bray to miss out on gate receipts, because as it stands, there may be a big crowd up from Cork for the final day of the season.

Do you compensate Bray for that?

[White Horse]

It's been proposed alright.

But how do you compensate for clubs with an extra week on the season (and an extra week's wages) because of Dundalk? Does Cork's season extend too? How do you compensate for clubs who lose on gate receipts because games are being moved to suit Dundalk?

Dundalk presumably asked for postponements, so all this seems to be something they should have planned before surely?

Compensation would have to be offered and Dundalk would ultimately have to give up part of their euro earnings.

[White Horse]

But that could cause Bray to miss out on gate receipts, because as it stands, there may be a big crowd up from Cork for the final day of the season.

Do you compensate Bray for that?

This is the small minded thinking that holds back the league.

[Real ale Madrid]

But that could cause Bray to miss out on gate receipts, because as it stands, there may be a big crowd up from Cork for the final day of the season.

Do you compensate Bray for that?

Would be a bigger crowd on the Bank Holiday Monday coming up from Cork anyway. No Work (afternoon /evening K.O.)

[pineapple stu]

Not really.

Why should Bray lose out on money in a problem Dundalk created? Why should another club lose out on money because they've an extra week's wages because Dundalk can't play all their games in time?

Dundalk wanted the games postponed in the first place; can surely hardly be surprised that now there's a backlog?

[Real ale Madrid]

Not really.
?

Not Really ? It wouldn't be less anyway. Bray would lose nothing here.



Why should Bray lose out on money in a problem Dundalk created?

Bray won't lose anything. Dundalk didn't create the problem - the FAI / League created the problem by not having a feasibility plan in place, in case, an Irish team made it to the EL group stages.


Why should another club lose out on money because they've an extra week's wages because Dundalk can't play all their games in time?


Its just 3 extra days and is not an issue if clubs pay the players until the end of the month which is not unlikely. I hope they were at least asked.



Dundalk wanted the games postponed in the first place; can surely hardly be surprised that now there's a backlog?

I doubt that the reality has crept up on them somehow - where have they indicated that they were surprised.

As a Cork City fan I don't really care and I guess the schedule isn't totally unprecedented, but the schedule IS chaotic and there is NO room for potential weather issues over the next week or so - this is a total shambles by the League.

[pineapple stu]

I agree it's a shambles by the league. Games are always postponed around European time, and there was no reason why they shouldn't have been played in May (like Harps v Pat's...which was moved with five days' notice, which was another shambles of course)

But you can't go changing matches beyond the end of the season and then pretend that (a) Dundalk didn't create the problem (because they did, in part) and (b) it doesn't affect other clubs (because it does)

Extending the league season may ewll be the only solution - and moving Cork v Dundalk would have the least impact - but the matter needs to be considered fully, because otherwise you've got another shambles.

(I'm assuming here Dundalk v Cork on the Bank Holiday Monday and all other matches as per normal - are you saying Bray v Cork moved to the Bank Holiday Monday? But then how does that help Dundalk?)

[nigel-harps1954]

If one or two games are pushed back a few days, then all the games have to be pushed back. Every final match has to be played simultaneously. Are you really going to compensate every club for it?

It's now that the clubs need to lobby the league to get rid of midweek games next season and extend the league by three or four weeks.

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

I wouldn't have any sympathy for any of the clubs involved in Europe if they end up with fixture congestion. They get games cancelled so they can concentrate on Europe and they then make more money from that then a lot of the rest of the clubs might take in during a whole season.

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

If one or two games are pushed back a few days, then all the games have to be pushed back. Every final match has to be played simultaneously. Are you really going to compensate every club for it?

It's now that the clubs need to lobby the league to get rid of midweek games next season and extend the league by three or four weeks.

Clubs won't lobby for that though as they don't want to pay players for an extra 3 or 4 weeks

[sbgawa]

Not really.

Why should Bray lose out on money in a problem Dundalk created? Why should another club lose out on money because they've an extra week's wages because Dundalk can't play all their games in time?

Dundalk wanted the games postponed in the first place; can surely hardly be surprised that now there's a backlog?

Have to agree , I would love to be having the fixture problems that Dundalk are having!! , you can't change the rules at the drop of a hat..
Every club has to be treated with respect.
What needs to happen is the season should be extended for next year, clubs given notice of the extension and player contracts etc done on this basis.
It could be Rovers (he says hopefully) or anyone else next year but lets organise it properly and look professional about it.

[Real ale Madrid]

I'd imagine that City's schedule will go along these lines


DUNDALK CORK CITY
8th – Sligo (H) Galway (a)
11th – Cork (H) Dundalk (a)
14th – Rovers (A) Harps (h)
17th – Longford (A) St. Pats (a)
20th – Zenit (H)
21st - St. Pats (h)
23rd – Bohs (H)
24th - Wexford (H)
25th – Pats (A)
28th – Galway (H) Bray (a)

[pineapple stu]

If one or two games are pushed back a few days, then all the games have to be pushed back. Every final match has to be played simultaneously.
If it's only Dundalk v Cork, that would work (like Arsenal v Liverpool in 1989). But it would still potentially cost Bray, and that's an issue that has to be explored.

European spots are even now almost decided (it'll be Cork/Dundalk/Derry/Rovers). There's decent gaps between the bottom three too. So it's possible everything bar the title will be decided by the final round of matches.

I think the first leg of the promotion/relegation final is the Tuesday after the final round of matches? So you can't go moving Wexford's games (as it stands) to the Monday without a knock-on effect.


It's now that the clubs need to lobby the league to get rid of midweek games next season and extend the league by three or four weeks.
Not sure what the logic behind that is? Your suggestion would add big cost to clubs.

[White Horse]

I wouldn't have any sympathy for any of the clubs involved in Europe if they end up with fixture congestion. They get games cancelled so they can concentrate on Europe and they then make more money from that then a lot of the rest of the clubs might take in during a whole season.

I doubt many people expected Dundalk to qualifying for the group stages. At one nil down in Iceland back in July, that looked a very remote possibility.

Do we now plan the season on the assumption that at least one club qualifies for the group stages?

[White Horse]

I'd imagine that City's schedule will go along these lines


DUNDALK CORK CITY
8th – Sligo (H) Galway (a)
11th – Cork (H) Dundalk (a)
14th – Rovers (A) Harps (h)
17th – Longford (A) St. Pats (a)
20th – Zenit (H)
21st - St. Pats (h)
23rd – Bohs (H)
24th - Wexford (H)
25th – Pats (A)
28th – Galway (H) Bray (a)

Almost as bad.

The league title will probably be decided by the strength and depth of the respective squads.

[pineapple stu]

You know how many matches you can afford to postpone, and stop postponing games when you reach that max.

If that's in the middle of the Legia game, then tough.

And obviously Dundalk surely should have taken a bit of initiative too and pre-played some games. It was known that if ye got through one round, ye'd have at least two more rounds. That was certainly worth planning for.

[Real ale Madrid]

But you can't go changing matches beyond the end of the season and then pretend that (a) Dundalk didn't create the problem (because they did, in part) and (b) it doesn't affect other clubs (because it does)

Extending the league season may ewll be the only solution - and moving Cork v Dundalk would have the least impact - but the matter needs to be considered fully, because otherwise you've got another shambles.


Extending the season 3 days is not as bad as some of the sh1te that has gone on already this season - I do admit though I didn't think of the knock on impact of other fixtures (inc the P/O) so I guess the Bank Holiday game is a NR really.

[sbgawa]

I'd imagine that City's schedule will go along these lines


DUNDALK CORK CITY
8th – Sligo (H) Galway (a)
11th – Cork (H) Dundalk (a)
14th – Rovers (A) Harps (h)
17th – Longford (A) St. Pats (a)
20th – Zenit (H)
21st - St. Pats (h)
23rd – Bohs (H)
24th - Wexford (H)
25th – Pats (A)
28th – Galway (H) Bray (a)

Actually of all the back and forth on this extension subject this is the most persuasive for not extending, both title contenders have pretty much the same problem.
let the best man win...........but lets extend next season by 4 weeks and avoid midweek matches if possible....also schedule all 4 euro qualifiers to play each other in the weeks around the first and possible second round ties so postponements don't effect other clubs..

[pineapple stu]

Extending the season 3 days is not as bad as some of the sh1te that has gone on already this season
I agree with that. All I'm saying is that all the extenuating factors need to be considered.

It's not just the final round either; how many clubs have lost Friday night matches and had to play in front of lower crowds of a Tuesday instead?

I think this is part of the reason why clubs in Europe should pay a small % of European prize money to a central pot to help compensate other clubs for the awkwardness they're causing.

[Real ale Madrid]

It's not just the final round either; how many clubs have lost Friday night matches and had to play in front of lower crowds of a Tuesday instead?


Clubs in Europe probably suffer more than those who don't - we will end up with 6/17 midweek fixtures this season - you can take 1,000 off for each of those fixtures for us - that is some drop ( compensated by European money I know ) - but I agree with others - there should be no midweek league games. All League cup and first 2 rounds of FAI Cup should be played midweek. Extend league by 2/3 weeks and forget this mid season break nonsense.

[pineapple stu]

Agree it's not ideal for ye - but at least clubs in Europe get huge prize money in compensation in fairness.

Their opponents get nothing.

[nigel-harps1954]

Not sure what the logic behind that is? Your suggestion would add big cost to clubs.

Argument to be made that First Division season is too short. First Division cup should return for the first few weeks of the season.

Argument to be made that midweek games cost clubs with attendances falling and match day income badly hit. Three extra weeks of the season would ease the burden on part-time players as well as maximise attendances across the board.

[Ezeikial]

I agree it's a shambles by the league. Games are always postponed around European time, and there was no reason why they shouldn't have been played in May (like Harps v Pat's...which was moved with five days' notice, which was another shambles of course)

But you can't go changing matches beyond the end of the season and then pretend that (a) Dundalk didn't create the problem (because they did, in part) and (b) it doesn't affect other clubs (because it does)

Extending the league season may ewll be the only solution - and moving Cork v Dundalk would have the least impact - but the matter needs to be considered fully, because otherwise you've got another shambles.

(I'm assuming here Dundalk v Cork on the Bank Holiday Monday and all other matches as per normal - are you saying Bray v Cork moved to the Bank Holiday Monday? But then how does that help Dundalk?)

<SNIP>

No need for this sort of post.

[pineapple stu]

Those extra three weeks would add an extra three weeks' wages costs though.

Sometimes, midweek games have to be seen as bonus gates for no extra salary. That's the argument some clubs in England have made against the idea of 5 league divisions of 20 clubs, with midweek games gone. Yes, the gate receipts are lower - but they're bonus income.

[pineapple stu]

Do you have some type of mood disorder syndrome?
Not altogether sure what your point is here, caller?

[El-Pietro]

Apparently this the FAI's proposed October schedule for Dundalk:

8th – Sligo (H)
11th – Cork (H)
14th – Rovers (A)
17th – Longford (A)
20th – Zenit (H)
23rd – Bohs (H)
25th – Pats (A)
28th – Galway (H)


Crazy stuff.
I predicted almost exactly that with Pats and Bohs switched.

[Olander]

I reckon Galway United will have a decent say in where the league title goes this year. It wouldn't surprise me at all if we got something off Cork City on Saturday, now that Dunne is gone we won't be as negative in our approach and we might actually have a cut at Cork this time instead of rolling over and dieing, we actually started with a 3-5-2 in Turners Cross :D.

Our remaining games are against Cork City at home, Wexford Youths away, Longford Town at home and Dundalk away. We should be collecting six points minimum from Wexford and Longford and looking to get something from the Cork City/Dundalk games, which may push us into the top half.

[nigel-harps1954]

Those extra three weeks would add an extra three weeks' wages costs though.

Sometimes, midweek games have to be seen as bonus gates for no extra salary. That's the argument some clubs in England have made against the idea of 5 league divisions of 20 clubs, with midweek games gone. Yes, the gate receipts are lower - but they're bonus income.

What sort of bonus is it for players who have to book days off work?

[pineapple stu]

They have to book days off work for Friday games anyway.

If the season gets extended three weeks, then fine, so long as players take a commeasurate weekly pay cut.

[El-Pietro]

I reckon Galway United will have a decent say in where the league title goes this year. It wouldn't surprise me at all if we got something off Cork City on Saturday, now that Dunne is gone we won't be as negative in our approach and we might actually have a cut at Cork this time instead of rolling over and dieing, we actually started with a 3-5-2 in Turners Cross :D.

Our remaining games are against Cork City at home, Wexford Youths away, Longford Town at home and Dundalk away. We should be collecting six points minimum from Wexford and Longford and looking to get something from the Cork City/Dundalk games, which may push us into the top half.
Negative? You've scored 5 of the 13 goals we've conceded in the league this year!

[nigel-harps1954]

Well, jesus I'll rephrase it to 'extra days off' then. It's of no financial bonus to those who have to travel away for these games, in some cases twice in a week.

[Olander]

Negative? You've scored 5 of the 13 goals we've conceded in the league this year!
The game was over at half-time. Cork tired badly in the second half. We actually set up correctly after half time when Dunne realised the dreadful error he made using a 3-5-2 and his team selection was also baffling. Why he used that formation, nobody will ever know... it was bizarre.

It's time for us to return to 4-4-2 or go with a 4-3-3, we did that against Finn Harps last week and we dominated the opening 60 minutes, scoring 3 and having a perfectly legitimate goal ruled out, but then we tired and let them back into it.

[pineapple stu]

Well, jesus I'll rephrase it to 'extra days off' then. It's of no financial bonus to those who have to travel away for these games, in some cases twice in a week.

But it is an issue to clubs, and that has to be factored in.

Three weeks extra in the season is three weeks extra of salary costs.

Midweek games are a bit awkward, I'll grant, but the two factors have to be balanced out.

[seand]

Just on the subject of next season, extending the season by a couple of weeks and eating into the ludicrous longest off season in world football makes sense for absolutely everyone- players, clubs and fans, irrespective of whether you're in Europe or not. Having a little more leeway reduces the number of rearrangements and midweek games. An increase in general running costs should be offset by modestly increased gates.
It doesn't necessarily have to mean an increase in cost of wages. A player who's on a 40-week contract should be able to get it into his thick skull that he's going to get a bit less each week over 44 weeks, or a fair bit less but a lot more stability by getting paid the same amount over 52 weeks.
I'm in favour or something like 1% of Euro prize money going into a fund to compensate other clubs who get bumped around.

Personally I'm a bit tired of Dundalk moaning about fixture congestion when a) we failed to get 1-2 extra league games played in advance of the Euro games (when we knew exactly when we'd be playing our first tie before the start of the season)
b) we declined to play in and around our early Euro games (though FH, Legia and BATE all did)
c) fixture congestion is a fact of life for all successful teams

[pineapple stu]

It doesn't necessarily have to mean an increase in cost of wages. A player who's on a 40-week contract should be able to get it into his thick skull that he's going to get a bit less each week over 44 weeks, or a fair bit less but a lot more stability by getting paid the same amount over 52 weeks.
That's the logical thing alright.

Just not entirely sure if "logical" is something that applied in the LoI! Some may claim social welfare during the pre-season, for example, and a longer season for the same gross pay would eat into that.

I don't think these are things that need hold up the development of the league of course - and moving it on is the most important thing at present. But they do need to be considered.

[nigel-harps1954]

The game was over at half-time. Cork tired badly in the second half. We actually set up correctly after half time when Dunne realised the dreadful error he made using a 3-5-2 and his team selection was also baffling. Why he used that formation, nobody will ever know... it was bizarre.

It's time for us to return to 4-4-2 or go with a 4-3-3, we did that against Finn Harps last week and we dominated the opening 60 minutes, scoring 3 and having a perfectly legitimate goal ruled out, but then we tired and let them back into it.

Saw the picture posted alright, but I don't think it's the cross that was flagged rather the initial pass out to Faherty on the wing. Watch back Soccer Republic footage, Faherty looks offside when the ball is played out to him right before it's crossed in.

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

I doubt many people expected Dundalk to qualifying for the group stages. At one nil down in Iceland back in July, that looked a very remote possibility.

Do we now plan the season on the assumption that at least one club qualifies for the group stages?

Ye don't need to cancel every league game just cause you're in Europe. For the 7 weekends starting from Friday July 8th to Sunday August 21st ye played a grand total of 3 league games.

[White Horse]

One of those games was brought forward to Tuesday 5th July and one was put back to Wednesday August 17th. Of the two remaining games, one was brought forward earlier in the season.

That leaves one of those game that is contributing to the current fixture congestion. Dundalk managed the fixtures around qualifying games quite well.

[ger121]

I'd be happy if that Dundalk game against us is down for Sunday 23rd Oct. Think we'd bring a good crowd with us too.

[El-Pietro]

I'd be happy if that Dundalk game against us is down for Sunday 23rd Oct. Think we'd bring a good crowd with us too.

I think theres a good chance it will be. If Pats or Longford had their games against Dundalk fixed for that date then they would be playing it on 48 hours rest. Bohs have no game that Friday. It would make sense to put the Bogs game that day

[legendz]

Should clubs involved in European qualifiers be able play a domestic fixture 3 days later, if it allows at least 4 days ahead of their next European game?

With players coming through the underage leagues, July and hopefully August seems a time for clubs involved in Europe to utilise their squads to best suit their priorities at that time.

[El-Pietro]

Our games have been confirmed. Pats away on Monday 17th and Wexford on Monday 24th.
Pats are scheduled to play Bray on Saturday the 15th at the moment.

Real Ale Madrid had the run in correct



DUNDALK CORK CITY
8th – Sligo (H) Galway (A)
11th – Cork (H) Dundalk (A)
14th – Rovers (A) Harps (H)
17th – Longford (A) St. Pats (A)
20th – Zenit (H)
21st - St. Pats (H)
23rd – Bohs (H)
24th - Wexford (H)
25th – Pats (A)
28th – Galway (H) Bray (A)
03rd - Zenit (A)
06th FAI CUP FINAL

[Seagull]

The SSE Airtricity League Premier Division fixture between Bray Wanderers and St.Patrick's Athletic originally scheduled for Saturday, 15th October has been rescheduled for FRIDAY, 14th October at the Carlisle Grounds with a kick-off time of 7.45 pm.

[WoodquayBoy]

Saw the picture posted alright, but I don't think it's the cross that was flagged rather the initial pass out to Faherty on the wing. Watch back Soccer Republic footage, Faherty looks offside when the ball is played out to him right before it's crossed in.
I was at the game and Faherty was well onside when Ludden played the ball to him. Granted, that's not totally clear from Soccer Republic but there is a 7 second delay (yes, I counted them!!) between Ludden's pass to Faherty and the ref blowing the whistle, and that is a big time delay in the context