Dundalk's pitch and ground discussion thread.

[Dunny]

I searched for a previous thread as i thought i remembered one but couldn't find it.So instead of clogging up the fixtures thread with complaints and other random grievances,post here and lets just talk about the matches over there.

[patrickccfc]

I was half thinking of setting this up as I mentioned it on the fixtures thread.. hopefully it does stay exclusively here now

[nigel-harps1954]

How about just stop talking about Dundalks pitch?

[White Horse]

Is every thread that mentions Dundalk not about the "plastic pitch"?

[The Donie Forde]

Just can't remember this now, but when was the last game on grass at Oriel?

[White Horse]

Just can't remember this now, but when was the last game on grass at Oriel?

About 10 years ago, the new pitch was laid in 2005.

[Nesta99]

Prior to 2005 languishing in the first division the old grass pitch was barely a sand pit. If it was still there today it would probably get as much criticism as our lush plastic version. Mickey Fox did his best but god love him he hadnt much to work with!

[Charlie Darwin]

I was in Oriel Park once and there were crisps and minerals all over the pitch but none in the shop.

[Macy]

I was in Oriel Park once and there were crisps and minerals all over the pitch but none in the shop.
You could see all the pitch?

[White Horse]

You could see all the pitch?

He's a Rovers fan, he would have been on the pitch with his brolly ;)

[ThePrisoner]

Can any of the Dundalk fans advise as to why they have the current pitch? Is a cost issue? Less maintenance? Always available? Weather proof? Is it available for hire?

[Yossarian]

Can any of the Dundalk fans advise as to why they have the current pitch? Is a cost issue? Less maintenance? Always available? Weather proof? Is it available for hire?

I believe we have the pitch for the sole purpose of antagonising opposition fans.

[ThePrisoner]

I believe we have the pitch for the sole purpose of antagonising opposition fans.

It certainly works.

[White Horse]

Can any of the Dundalk fans advise as to why they have the current pitch? Is a cost issue? Less maintenance? Always available? Weather proof? Is it available for hire?

Initially, the idea was that it would increase revenue through hiring it out and also reduce maintenance costs.

Those two anticipated advantages have reduceed over the years, as experience has shown that these pitches do need quite a lot of maintenance and disimprove with overuse.

If Dundalk decide to continue to use an articial pitch it will be because the costs and disruption of reverting to grass is too high.

[ThePrisoner]

Initially, the idea was that it would increase revenue through hiring it out and also reduce maintenance costs.

Those two anticipated advantages have reduceed over the years, as experience has shown that these pitches do need quite a lot of maintenance and disimprove with overuse.

If Dundalk decide to continue to use an articial pitch it will be because the costs and disruption of reverting to grass is too high.

In my view I think it would be very difficult, if not impossible, to revert to grass without closing OP for a portion of the season. If you were to lift the surface at the end of October, do whatever needs to be done and then lay the turf how long would it take to be ready? Maybe with a mild winter and a growth spurt it might ready in time. May have to play the first few games away. I think you're stuck with it for the foreseeable future.

Another issue, why all the black pellets on the pitch. Could you not get them in green? Would look a lot better.

[Macy]

In my view I think it would be very difficult, if not impossible, to revert to grass without closing OP for a portion of the season. If you were to lift the surface at the end of October, do whatever needs to be done and then lay the turf how long would it take to be ready? Maybe with a mild winter and a growth spurt it might ready in time. May have to play the first few games away. I think you're stuck with it for the foreseeable future.
Ages since a winter football thread as well, but it's another one for the armoury... Dundalk would be able to go back to grass if we had winter football!*

*I'm ignoring how much worse the away section would be in the middle of winter.

[Ezeikial]

Ages since a winter football thread as well, but it's another one for the armoury... Dundalk would be able to go back to grass if we had winter football!*

*I'm ignoring how much worse the away section would be in the middle of winter.

Winter football would bring additional arguments for keeping an artificial pitch

[seand]

I was in Oriel Park once and there were crisps and minerals all over the pitch but none in the shop.

That would've been Rovers fans throwing stuff onto the pitch. Again. ;)

[White Horse]

Another issue, why all the black pellets on the pitch. Could you not get them in green? Would look a lot better.

New pitches use green pellets which improve the cosmetic appearance of the pitch.

I would expect Dundalk to use green pellets should they lay a new artiifical pitch for next season.

[Macy]

It seems a lot of the assumptions about the benefits of artificial pitches were based on the old style one's that must have needed feck all maintenance. Not sure what type artificial they are, but I work beside UCD, and even they're back/ open to rent pitches seem to have a significant amount of maintenance going on every week.

[Ezeikial]

Good to read Daniel McDonnell in today's Indo previewing the Dundalk v St Pats match and highlighting the Oriel Park pitch as a factor for St Pat's. Buckley mentioned in the Presidents Cup post match post match interviews also.

Great that the hype continues and hopefully it spooks the Saints again tonight

[colonelwest]

I think we should paint the pitch black and white just to annoy people even more than usual

[White Horse]

Good to read Daniel McDonnell in today's Indo previewing the Dundalk v St Pats match and highlighting the Oriel Park pitch as a factor for St Pat's. Buckley mentioned in the Presidents Cup post match post match interviews also.

Great that the hype continues and hopefully it spooks the Saints again tonight

If anything the pitch should suit Pats as they are one of the few visiting team that play football on it.

However, once you get something into your head....

[seand]

Twas the pitch that got two Pats players sent off on Friday.

[Mr_Parker]

New pitches use green pellets which improve the cosmetic appearance of the pitch.

I would expect Dundalk to use green pellets should they lay a new artiifical pitch for next season.

Green pellets cost substantially more than black.

[geysir]

It should be noted that Dundalk would have a greater advantage with a grass pitch against the visiting team. It is a fact that Dundalk play better on grass, therefore visiting teams would in all likliehood be hammered mercilessly into the (organic) turf. Other clubs should be pleading with Dundalk to keep the plastic.

[Sheridan]

The pitch is woeful, lads.

[Charlie Darwin]

It should be noted that Dundalk would have a greater advantage with a grass pitch against the visiting team. It is a fact that Dundalk play better on grass, therefore visiting teams would in all likliehood be hammered mercilessly into the (organic) turf. Other clubs should be pleading with Dundalk to keep the plastic.
We'll only be able to make a true comparison once Dundalk start visiting the likes of Russia and Ukraine in the Champions League.

[Nesta99]

The pitch is woeful, lads.

Total disaster!

[Nesta99]

We'll only be able to make a true comparison once Dundalk start visiting the likes of Russia and Ukraine in the Champions League.

Crusaders not a possibility? or many of Scandanavian sides either..

[Charlie Darwin]

Crusaders not a possibility? or many of Scandanavian sides either..
Crusaders doesn't count because all their players go on holiday for European games. I will permit you to play in Scandinavia.

[Mr_Parker]

Crusaders not a possibility? or many of Scandanavian sides either..

Crusaders pitch is not comparable. It is of different construction.

As a point of interest, while there already is at least 4 artificial turf pitches across the 3 top leagues in the North, there are currently 13 clubs with planning applications in for artificial turf pitches, with most of those for their primary pitch.

[seand]

Crusaders pitch is not comparable. It is of different construction.

As a point of interest, while there already is at least 4 artificial turf pitches across the 3 top leagues in the North, there are currently 13 clubs with planning applications in for artificial turf pitches, with most of those for their primary pitch.

What's the attitude like to the artificial pitches up north Mr Parker? Do you have to put up with as much whining?

[GCdfc]

Whining because it doesn't look pretty (green with a strong hint of black) and it allows football to be played. What a backwards nation we are where people prefer pitches that looked pretty (green with a strong hint of brown) and don't allow football to be played.

[Mr_Parker]

What's the attitude like to the artificial pitches up north Mr Parker? Do you have to put up with as much whining?

There was at the start, mainly from 2 managers, but it has eased off considerably. Most of those who argued against lost their arguments given the state of their own grass pitches. The main arguments were that they caused more injuries, which is nonsense. The latest is some fans pointing at a couple of cases in the USA where people have claimed cancer concerns from the rubber crumb, ignoring of course the numerous diseases etc you can get from a soil based pitch.

Most clubs and fans have now realised that they give little or no advantage, are here to stay and just get on with it.

[Dodge]

From having seen games on both surfaces, Cliftonville's is far superior to Dundalk's. It might just be newer but it played truer

[Nesta99]

Most clubs and fans have now realised that they give little or no advantage, are here to stay and just get on with it.

Who'd have thought it, progressive thinking in Northern Ireland!

[Mr_Parker]

The key with artificial turf is what is underneath it and good regular maintenance. Too many I've seen obviously don't have the regular brushing or deep cleaning that is required.

[El-Pietro]

Pitches in the North that I've seen all seem to be far better quality than Dundalks. I've little issue with artificial surfaces (though like most I'd prefer grass where possible). I understand that they make sense form a cost point of view, and I'm sure far fewer games are called off in the Irish League than would be done so on grass, but the ball doesn't bounce right.

People say it isn't maintained properly, I don't know, but City have played at Dundalk, Crusaders and Cliftonville and from what I saw the Dundalk pitch was the worst of the three by some margin.

[outspoken]

We played Shels in pre season on the Astro in Lexlip and it was one of the best I've seen, no spraying up of those little pellets, even bounce, true passes, if everything pitch in the league was an Astro of that quality it would only be good for us.

[Nesta99]

At the latter end of the previous owners tenure the pitch wasnt maintained. It certainly is now with I think 50k spent on it last season. Id imagine that Stephen Kenny would insist that it is not an area to penny pinch. Im open to correction but I believe when the original surface layer was replaced due to changes in regulations requiring a retrofit, to save on installation costs GM provided the labour to lay the replacement layer (Fieldturf did contribute to the replacement cost I think). It was probably done with guidance but hardly the same as having the manufacturers do the job. The first surface looked seamless, the second surface the joins were visable. Whether this has anything to do with the criticised quality i dont know but it is a possibility. I do know from playing on it myself that it not as bad as many people claim and my knees are fooked from previous torn cartilage injury. Granted i'd not be playing with anything like the intensity of LoI players but still...

As is often said the biggest advantage to Dundalk's surface is as much psychological and the longer opposition managers, fans etc push the pitch advantage line the greater the advantage is as players are tentative with some refusing to play on it at all. It is the same surface that was initially installed in the Luzniki in Moscow. Granted it was lifted for a Champions League final, but it was fascinating to see how England, for example, coped with it Euro 2008 (installed 2005) and what the media made of it. There wasnt a fraction of the moaning from the English that there has been about Oriel's surface and they are quite a moany bunch especially when they lose which they did 2-1.

eg

"England coach Steve McClaren says the artificial pitch in Russia's Luzhniki stadium is no excuse for failure in Wednesday's vital Euro 2008 qualifier.

The England team trained on an exact replica in Altrincham on Monday and McClaren said: "It is a flat pitch and there is absolutely no excuse."

or Colin Little: "We did our pre-season on it, which you couldn't have done years ago," he said.
"No-one picked up any injuries and we probably got more injuries the year before when we did our pre-season on the grass.
"There's loads of give in them. It's like a bit of suspension. Years ago they were slate based and felt like you were running on concrete.
"I coach at Crewe where we have got one and technical director Dario Gradi prefers to play on them rather than the grass."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/internationals/7041476.stm

I am being selective as in the same piece Juan Pablo Angel and Gareth Whalley mention the difference in recovery time after using an Artificial surface to grass surface. This implies to me that there is no absolute consensus for or against and that there are players that aint that bothered either way. Is it really going to be any worse than a hard summer pitch that may not be watered (its an avoidable cost if finances are tight) or badly divoted. Although long warm spells are not that common when it does happen the pitches are damn near bare rock hard and i have left a layer of skin on such a pitch on more than one occaison.

Im sure there are plenty of us who have played in the street for hours on end or on a concrete schoolyard so a surface with different effects on the ball cant be that alien, not all indoor football halls have sprung floors either but dont get derided for being tough on previous injuries.

I get that it is not ideal, it has to be nearing its sell buy date and as ive mentioned before the annual testing occurs with every Dundalk fan holding our collective breaths! We cant afford an expensive change back to grass when there are many more pressing needs like a sweet shop for the future visits of Longford.

Pitches across league have been getting plenty of criticism, long grass in Dalymount, Derry's slope, Jackman, previous waterlogging in Tallaght so our own little patch shouldnt be excluded but worst pitch in LoI? Far from it!

[geysir]

We'll only be able to make a true comparison once Dundalk start visiting the likes of Russia and Ukraine in the Champions League.
It is proven beyond doubt, just by a cursory examination of LOI games in the 2014 season, that Dundalk performed better on away turf than on home plastic, once you discount the mud meadow that Bray Unknowns use.

[El-Pietro]

It is proven beyond doubt, just by a cursory examination of LOI games in the 2014 season, that Dundalk performed better on away turf than on home plastic, once you discount the mud meadow that Bray Unknowns use.

Thats just plain wrong.

2.5 points per game at home against 2 points per game away. 2.8 goals per game at home vs 1.6 away.

[White Horse]

Thats just plain wrong.

2.5 points per game at home against 2 points per game away. 2.8 goals per game at home vs 1.6 away.

What were Cork's stats over the same period?

[El-Pietro]

2.4 points and 1.7 goals home, 2 points and 1.3 goals away

ppg are similar for both teams, but 2.8 goals per game at home is huge.

[GCdfc]

ppg are similar for both teams, but 2.8 goals per game at home is huge.

Nothing to do with having a great goalscoring team, the Oriel Roar and a pitch where it was possible to play football on.

[Town Legend]

What pitch are you on about GCdfc?? :confused:

[colonelwest]

What pitch are you on about GCdfc??

This one?
:confused::cool:

http://i.imgur.com/yMi0CxG.jpg

[El-Pietro]

Nothing to do with having a great goalscoring team, the Oriel Roar and a pitch where it was possible to play football on.

100% of those home goals were to do with the fact that away teams can't defend the high bouncing ball...

Or you know, it was one factor among many and Dundalk were the best team in the country regardless

[Charlie Darwin]

This one?
:confused::cool:

http://i.imgur.com/yMi0CxG.jpg
I see they've watered the attacking end.