Germany V Republic of Ireland - Tuesday, 14th October 2014 - Euro 2016 Qualifier

[jbyrne]

I can only remember him having one (semi) decent save to make so I don't think it was worthy of a goalkeeping motm performance.

he made a couple more at his near post particularly one on one against Gotze late on from memory. also, although he nearly mucked it up he came off his line Nueresque in the first half to clear a dangerous through ball. very solid performance

[Duggie]

Forde had a good night alright, but is his positioning suspect? did anyone else think he was to far off his line when the germans hit the bar in the first half?? I don't know, i never feel fully safe with him like i did with Given or Bonner say.

[pineapple stu]

he made a couple more at his near post particularly one on one against Gotze late on from memory. also, although he nearly mucked it up he came off his line Nueresque in the first half to clear a dangerous through ball. very solid performance
Yeah, he had one late save at the feet of Götze, as you say, which was top drawer. 2-0 would have been game over.

The tip over from the edge of the box was good, if he did go at a little bit unorthodoxly.

There were a couple of good near-post saves as well.

He probably played better and pulled off better saves in the 3-0 defeat in Köln, granted. But overall, a very solid performance from Forde.

And while Germany were very sluggish (was it Boateng who couldn't hit a cow's arse with a banjo on more than one occasion in the first half?), it was a huge improvement on the games against Germany in the last campaign.

Just see now if we can build on that in Scotland next month.

[jbyrne]

I don't know, i never feel fully safe with him like i did with Given or Bonner say.

our best two goalkeepers ever? give the lad a break. since he has come into the team he hasn't let us down one bit and excelled many times

[DeLorean]

he made a couple more at his near post particularly one on one against Gotze late on from memory. also, although he nearly mucked it up he came off his line Nueresque in the first half to clear a dangerous through ball. very solid performance

Yeah I don't want to come across as if I'm knocking him but I don't think he really saved anything that wouldn't have been poor had it gone in. I agree it was a solid performance, just not a motm performance, for which I think a goalkeeper would need to be fairly spectacular or incredibly busy to be in the running in the first place.

[DeLorean]

our best two goalkeepers ever? give the lad a break. since he has come into the team he hasn't let us down one bit and excelled many times

I think he's a perfectly decent keeper but I would rate Westwood higher from what I have seen. It would be going too far to say I'm nervous with Forde in goal but I would feel safer with Westwood, never mind Given or Bonner. It's not really a case of giving him a break, it's just an opinion. Nobody's slating the fella.

[SwanVsDalton]

I think Hoolahan was forcing it a bit but, as has been pointed out, but he was the only man who was going to pick up those positions. All the midfield replacements ended up doing well, even though they struggled initially.

I recall Hendrick running down two blind alleys shortly after he came on to give the ball away cheaply. In the end, he plays a beautiful cut back for an assist.

Gibson looked a bit sluggish initially I thought, but he was really composed on the ball. Helped getting us playing more direct when we were chasing the game.

Do we slam O'Neill for not starting these guys or give him credit for making changes that, minus Long, maybe looked a bit suspect? All the subs contributed to us having a real go in the final five to eight minutes.


I think he's a perfectly decent keeper but I would rate Westwood higher from what I have seen. It would be going too far to say I'm nervous with Forde in goal but I would feel safer with Westwood, never mind Given or Bonner. It's not really a case of giving him a break, it's just an opinion. Nobody's slating the fella.

Point taken.

I think the real bonus from Forde's performance was how quick he was off his line. He isn't a quick guy. But his positioning and sharpness behind the back four snuffed out four or five tricky through balls.

Likewise it helped in making that good stop against Gotze.

It sounds simple, but it makes the defence's job so much easier when a keeper is proactive and commanding. Plus it's a strange contrast from when the ball is at his feet and he gives the impression of a confused giraffe.

[nigel-harps1954]

Forde had a good night alright, but is his positioning suspect? did anyone else think he was to far off his line when the germans hit the bar in the first half?? I don't know, i never feel fully safe with him like i did with Given or Bonner say.


This. He was absolutely miles away from where he should have been only minutes into the game when concentration should have been at it's highest.

Forde isn't the worst we've ever had, but I feel it's an area that certainly needs to be looked at with high priority. While he made one top save, he almost cost dearly with decision making. The run out of his box was fantastic to sweep up the ball, but didn't decide what to do with it and lost possession when the ball should have been hoofed high into the stand with his first touch.

[tetsujin1979]

watched the game last night with a friend of mine who's a big rugby fan. He'd watch the odd game of football, but would struggle to name more than five or six Ireland players. Still, he has time for Ireland games.

Anyway, I had to explain the goal to him, so I've watched it a few times. McGeady and Hoolahan were really clever on the right (shades of Duff and Reid VS France under Kerr). After a few short passes, between the two that ended McGeady in possession, he took two Germany players with him to make space for Hoolahan to get the cross in.
Hendrick is actually facing the goal when the ball comes across, but has turned through 270 degrees to face the left sideline when he receives the ball. He actually lost sight of it for a second, and you can see him looking back to find in the air again before he jumps to make the pass.

My initial reaction was that it was too far ahead of Hendrick, and I suspect the German defence might have thought the same because they stopped approaching the ball. The standard procedure for that sort of ball is to take it down, move towards the corner flag/sideline and try to turn and cross, which is why the defence was caught so flat footed when he jumped, turned and flicked the ball back into the box. It wasn't too dissimilar to McClean's crosses for Keane and Hoolahan earlier in the game, in that it was a low, hard cross aimed at the edge of the six yard area. O'Shea just had a half yard on the defender behind him, allowing him to make deft contact with the ball and direct it into the net, queue jumping and screaming in my flat, and my apologies to the lad who lives in the flat downstairs and his kids who I hope I didn't wake up!

[DannyInvincible]

O'Neill still hasn't hasn't given a concrete indication of what his style is. All 3 competitive games have been different.

Maybe his style is fluidity and adaptability then? ;)


Forde had a good night alright, but is his positioning suspect? did anyone else think he was to far off his line when the germans hit the bar in the first half?? I don't know, i never feel fully safe with him like i did with Given or Bonner say.

I think his positioning can be suspect and he sometimes looks a bit flat-footed. He was really caught off-guard by the early effort that cracked off the cross-bar. Whilst he did make quite a few good stops last night, I'd still be more confident with Westwood in goals. It'd be difficult for Martin to drop Forde though without him committing an absolute clanger or two.

[DeLorean]

Is it just me or do we seem to have a very strong panel of midfielders all of a sudden? When you consider the impacts of Gibson, Hendrick and Hoolahan off the bench with McCarthy even Andy Reid to come back in, that's nothing to be sniffed at. Coleman's return will obviously release Meyler back into the fold there also.

The main problem is that we don't seem to be starting the best of what's available, in my view at least. Quinn and Whelan are probably the last two I would consider to be honest. I'd love to see this for Scotland.

--------------------Forde--------------------------

Coleman-------O'Shea--------Wilson----------McClean

----------Gibson------------McCarthy---------------

----Hendrick-------Hoolahan--------McGeady---------

--------------------Keane---------------------------

[geysir]

Post match, MO'N was rueing our ball retention ability, on that front it might have helped matters if he had selected one or two different players, but an O'Neill selection, however questionable re ball retention ability, still kept the score down to just the one goal without being nailed to the wall and he did assist in the late rescue of a point with his subs.
However, you'd hope that he'd tweak the game plan in future, if he does have those worthy aspirations about improving our ball retention.

Afaic our equaliser was fully deserved, doesn't matter a jot that Germany were the better team in the game. The better team also have to earn their slice of crust and Germany didn't do enough to secure the game. Talking about gammy crosses which changed the course of history, against Holland, Finnan's cross that somehow ended up on McAteer's foot, was as shy and wimpy as they come, but also perfect.

On RTE, it was the commentary that particularly grated me, Ronnie's incessant complaining and George's editorialisng, instead of just commentating. Will the penny ever drop that Ronnie ("he's a great football man") is anathema as a co commentator?

[backstothewall]

Is it just me or do we seem to have a very strong panel of midfielders all of a sudden? When you consider the impacts of Gibson, Hendrick and Hoolahan off the bench with McCarthy even Andy Reid to come back in, that's nothing to be sniffed at. Coleman's return will obviously release Meyler back into the fold there also.

The main problem is that we don't seem to be starting the best of what's available, in my view at least. Quinn and Whelan are probably the last two I would consider to be honest. I'd love to see this for Scotland.

--------------------Forde--------------------------

Coleman-------O'Shea--------Wilson----------McClean

----------Gibson------------McCarthy---------------

----Hendrick-------Hoolahan--------McGeady---------

--------------------Keane---------------------------



For me...


-----------------------Forde-------------------------

Coleman-------O'Shea--------Duffy---------Wilson

----------Gibson------------McCarthy---------------

----Brady-------------------------McGeady---------

--------------Walters----Long-----------------------

though if Westwood keeps up his form at Wednesday he'll be pushing Forde very hard for the gloves

[DeLorean]

Well yeah I'd have Westwood all day but Forde isn't going to be dropped after last night and that's probably fair enough. My other ten are actually who I would select if I was in the hot seat though :)

[backstothewall]

Well yeah I'd have Westwood all day but Forde isn't going to be dropped after last night and that's probably fair enough. My other ten are actually who I would select if I was in the hot seat though :)

Fair point. Every game Forde plays I think he can feel Westwood breathing down his neck and he pulls off a great performance to make himself undropable.

It's a decent problem to have : )

[geysir]

.......A lovely point to get, but I don't thing we are much closer to qualification. It'll still boil down to our games v Poland and Scotland and if we play like that against either, we'll be getting a draw at the most.
Just on that point Joe, of course there are games to play where the qualification stakes are still on the table to be won or lost, but we are further down our road towards qualification than most could have anticipated. We have got the away points against Georgia already in the bag and a hen's tooth point in Germany.

[NeverFeltBetter]

"Germany were the better team", but only insofar as how they kept possession. They were remarkably impotent in the final third, given the apparent disparity between the sides, even with their withdrawals. Ireland defended very well for large spells, and pegged Germany back for much of the last ten minutes. I don't think its too much to say a draw was a fair result, given the effort put in by Ireland.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Is there an argument for starting Meyler at RB and starting Coleman at RM to maximise goalscoring threat? Coleman has more goals in him than anyone.

Wes Hoolahan has gained several MOTM awards against top 4 caliber PL teams so I would never question putting him in these situations.

[Kingdom]

Only in the door from Gelsenkirchen. First things first, it is so much handier going to away matches from Southern England. Decided to chance booking flights over ferry yesterday morning, and was able to get to Dusseldorf and back from Koln to Gatwick, for £160. Excellent stuff. That's the fourth time I've been to Germany and I could live there, I love the way they do things.

You would not have realised there was a match on coming in from Dusseldorf. Once I got to Essen though there was a good build up of fans, and naturally enough it was jammers from there to Gelsenkirchen. The atmosphere was fantastic on the way to the ground, and not an ounce of trouble, bar a few disgruntled commuters on the S-Bahn from Essen due to a stupid delay (couldn't blame them).
Die AufSchalke Arena is a cracking stadium, absolutely cracking, though the pitch looked poor through the centre. Great facilities around the concourse, and ArdeeBhoy to his credit supplied me with a ticket (I think we may both change networks AB!). Was nervous waiting for team news: fairly peeved when I saw our team, even more so when I saw the German team, as to me it looked a side to be taken on, even in their place.

I would have to watch the game again (I saw a replay in Fritzpatrick's (don't ask)) but the atmosphere was jovial so not practical to give a critique I could stand over based on that. I'll try to recall from memory!

I was sober watching the match, and from what I could see, there was a definite game plan to not everything I said last week we should do :p. Seriously, there was a distinct tactic on our part to let the two centre halves have the ball unchallenged to the middle of their half, then force the ball wide. Germany were allowed come to just past our side of the centre circle and then our midfield converged. MON must have insisted on a particular point on the pitch where pressure was to be deployed, in the hope that effectively 18 players squashed into almost one third of the pitch would make it hard to create solid chances in we were disciplined. Two things on that: We were incredibly disciplined in our defending*, but the tactic meant we almost surrendered possession every time a move broke down by either hoofing the ball down field, or by putting a few passes together eventually resulting in passing back to Forde to hoof down the pitch. There was definitely three times whereby the ball went to Forde - either from pass-back, or German play breaking down - and with Whelan free, in at least 15 yds of space and obviously gesticulating for the smart pass, the ball got hoofed out to Walters.

* the right hand side is a disaster waiting to happen; I'm delighted Schurrle, Reus were out, and that an unfit Draxler was playing that side. Working on a replacement right-full needs urgent doing, because we got away with it last night. Poor Davey Meyler just couldn't cope with the inter-changing and movement, and Jon Walters struggled to cover for his inadequacies in the role.

It is extremely hard to constantly watch, because on the few occasions when the match was level, and we attempted to play football, it worked, huzzah! Quinn is tidy on the ball, McGeady is tidy on the ball, Meyler is tidy on the ball, McClean is tidy on the ball, Whelan is effective in the small short almost futsal type passing style, but too often we didn't try to impose that on the game.
Ireland didn't attack the German back 4 enough, and they showed themselves to be a little lackadaisical I thought. Hummels showed that anyone willing to pay 35m€ for him should be given a straight-jacket, and the two full backs are weak defensively. The two full backs were there to be exploited: we only did on the right hand side when we went behind and Walters moved up top, and we didn't get the ball out to McClean enough, because he definitely had the beating of Rudiger, who I saw was a weak point last week, and that was proven right last night.
The last 15 mins there was some really excellent football from Ireland. Hendrick looked every inch the International Player ( which makes his performance against Gibraltar so head-scratching) and Gibson really put some forward thrust into midfield, and did what he is good at, he was constantly looking to either move the ball forward, or advance with the ball himself.
Wes was far from the lynchpin when he came on, but it's a bloody hard ask to expect a fella to be introduced with what, 12 mins to go, surrounded by players who've dug in and run chasing shadows for the guts of 75 mins and expect everything to work seamlessly.

Player ratings:

Forde - 8- made some truly world class saves. I wondered should he have been beaten by a ground shot from that distance, but it just looks a good strike. I want Westwood in the team myself, but the only major gripe I'd have with Forde is that he is just not good enough with ball at feet, or quick distribution in general. Given that could easily be a managerial decision (to time waste - and there was an example of it from a goal kick as early as the third minute) so I won't hold that criticism over Forde solely.
Meyler - 5.5 -for me looked lost until we decided to actually attack with the football, and he didn't look as bad after Germany's goal. I'd say he was Ireland's weakest link last night.
Ward - 7.5 - on the other hand I thought was excellent. Probably his best game for Ireland considering the opposition. Sure he makes some really stupid decisions on the ball, such as rolling a simple 10yd pass out of touch when we had put some truly beautiful passes together, but defensively he was solid, and he always was available as an outball.
Two centre halves - 7 for OShea; 5 for Wilson - were maddening. I meant absolutely maddening. Some really good defensive work, then some really dumbass concentration losses, and absolutley horrible passes. I've seen the Podolski penalty appeal twice, and for me it's as stupid a foul in a penalty box as you'll see and we were blessed.

Whelan - 7 - defensively sound, constantly harried in midfield and dovetailed extremely well with Quinn. Gutted for him to have to leave the field in the circumstances.
Quinn - 7.5 - would be higher only for the poor decision-making for their goal. He is a really smart footballer, and I reckon he has survived in England, whereas he would have thrived in Europe.
[I'll say that the two boys get their rating purely for their defensive work, as their was very little offensive play]

Walters - 7.5 - first 15 mins aside when he had to really guide Meyler, he put in a trojan effort last night, and was battered all over the pitch. Kept going, harrassing when we went behind and was a real unsung hero last night

McGeady - 7 - I can't say he'd a poor game last night because his game is not, and should not, be about being on the back foot. When we decided to attack Germany, his little darts runs and jinxs began to cause chaos.
McClean - 9 - Man of the match by a country mile. Huge workrate last night, combined well with Ward. Attacked Rudiger with success everytime he was able to. Put in two absolute humdingers of tackles. I'd love to see him tested either at left-back or left-wing back as he's got enough defensive nous, plus obvious attacking ability to compliment Coleman on the opposite side, while allowing some of our more talented ball players to be accomodated further forward
Keane - 5 - but not of his fault. He shouldn't be expected to play that type of game.

Hendrick - 8 - Surprised to see him come on ahead of Gibson, so he must be very close to being a starter. Excellent on the ball, thundered into tackles, and probed forward with some nice incisive passing - just what you want from a midfielder. Super assist for the goal, and if it had of been done by Goetze or Kroos we'd still be purring about it.
Gibson - 7 - Couple of pant-staining moments aside, he helped to turn the tide. Must be considered to start now, once he regains full fitness.
Hoolahan - 7 - He induced chaos. Looked unsure a couple of times, lost possession a couple of times, but the panic he drew, allowed others to benefit. He's not the Wessiah, but he's not a naughty boy either. still could be a huge player over the course of this campaign.

[Kingdom]

It's very hard, and possibly stupid to find fault with a draw against the reigning world champions. So that's what I am going to do: it is becoming apparent that between Gibson, McCarthy, Quinn, Hendrick, Hoolahan, McGeady and McClean we've talented ball-players that are not afraid to keep the ball and probe forward. Yet in the two competitive games we've had, it's happened little. It can't be the players doing! When we finally took the game to Germany, because we had to, we constantly caused them difficulties, so why didn't we do that from the start?
It is true that we're sitting top with two of our toughest away games done and dusted. It could just as easily have been us sitting in fourth on 4 points, and worrying about having to go to Glasgow and winning. I will take the point and run, but I think people are going to start losing the run of themselves and think that we're going to go to Poland and Scotland and play adventurous footbal - they'll be wrong. But sometimes (as we saw in EUro 12 qual) you need a bit of luck to change the direction of a group, as we got the point in Moscow, here we got a point in Gelsenkirchen.

I argued previously that because of tactics employed by the management team, we failed to qualify automatically for WC2010, when we were in a very winnable group, despite being in with the World Champions at that time too, but we didn't have the courage to really prove ourselves. That was our downfall, despite all the hullabulloo over Paris. I hope to God that we don't end up kicking ourselves this time too. Germany, and I really do believe this, could very easily win every other match in this group, and top it. They really dominated the three rivals they've faced, and they've been extremely unfortunate to come away with 1 point, when they should have had 6. We've still to face Poland and Scotland twice, and as much as I think we're better equipped than Scotland, I worry that Poland will exploit us with the game they have, and they've been a country we have always struggled to play against in modern times. I just hope that if everyone can stay fit who needs to stay fit, that the management will pick a side that can not just soak up pressure, but a side that can actually go and win games home and away against our rivals, because we've got the squad who can do that. The brains trust really need to examine themselves and come up with a formula to get the cohesion and balance right. We should not be callow from here on in in this group. A core of McCarthy, Gibson, and Hendrick, flanked by Coleman and McGeady on one side, McClean and Hoolahan on the other and with Keane or Long in front is better than anything the other two can provide. I just wish we would start believing it.

[jbyrne]

Is there an argument for starting Meyler at RB and starting Coleman at RM to maximise goalscoring threat? Coleman has more goals in him than anyone.


some attacking full backs attack better from full back than if they are switched to midfield. I think Coleman fits into this category

[geysir]

That's a good read Kingdom.
As for a German falling down in the box, I'm glad the ref took the view that if there was no blood or broken limb, there was no foul, regardless of the anguish expressed by the fallen footballer.

[tricky_colour]

Just watched the second half in HD as opposed to a blurry stream, pretty impressed overall, we look a much more confident side than
some of the previously performance, better organised, more like a proper football team, remember those woeful performances against
Spain and Italy in the Euros, and of course the 6-1 v Germany in Dublin.
We did however make a few sloppy errors, careless passing at times giving the ball away cheaply and of course backing off for the goal,
however despite that we still got a result, apart form that we were pretty sound, we didn't give Germany too may chances and we were not
camped in front of our own goal all the time.
A little bit of tightening up in those loose areas and we could be a force to be reckoned with, of course the problem is something else
will probably come lose lol.
The whole side seemed a lot more confident, almost as if they knew what they were doing!
We didn't seem to be chasing shadows all the time as we were again Spain, we were able to win the ball back and keep the
German contained much of the time.

It will be interesting to see how the next three matches Scotland Poland Scotland pan out, they could make or break us or maybe we will come out half baked
as often happens, but at least we can go into them with a bit of confidence now.
Whether we come out with any confidence remains to be seen but it is far to early to throw the towel in we have everything to play for! ;)

[Stuttgart88]

Martin O'Neill said at a do in London I was at that he thinks putting specialist right backs into the right side of midfield is nonsense. He says it never works and although a good right back spends a lot of time attacking, it's not the same. I agree. Coleman is a very good attacking right back, meaning he can arrive late and not be confronted by a specialist left back. And anyway, McGeady must have nailed on the right sided role with McClean on the left. I still feel O'Neill prefers Walters but maybe it was horses for courses last night especially when we had an inexperienced right back.

I was underwhelmed by Gibson last night until I saw the match on telly just now, and in the last 20 minutes in particular he was very good, using the ball well and protecting it well. I still feel O'Neill needs to trust his better players more, although Germany are a harder team to play against than most others we'll face.

Kingdom, Didi Hamman thinks Germany are in a dogfight along with the rest of us! They're only one bad result away from him being right. Let's hope it's in Dublin!

I'd love to hear thoughts on Whelan. I have never really rated his performances apart from maybe half a dozen games. He seemed to do eff all with the ball last night, never seemed to have any time or never seemed to have the vision to pick any kind of forward pass. Hendrick showed how it should / could be done better. But I still wonder if Whelan's best attribute is simply clogging up that space in front of our penalty box, the same space that Kroos had all to himself for about 10 seconds in the build up to his goal. Clogging up that space is quite important!

Anyway, 3 games down and no feeling that anything has been left out there. That's as good as we can ask for. But Scotland have a point in Poland which is nothing we can be sure of, to say the least,so despite their defeat in Dortmund we're still neck and neck in the "as it lies" stakes.

If we can win in Glasgow then it's massively game on. We need points in the bag now to cushion against any mishaps later. We never seem to do well trying to catch up from opportunities lost.

[Fergie's Son]

Incredible fortitude to claw our way back into that game. Frankly, Germany looked knackered by the end (and before our goal). Very nice to see us take the game to them. Scotland away is crucial (we don't play Germany until the second last game of the season). If we can beat Scotland away, draw to Poland away then we are in with a great chance. Poland still have to travel to Germany and Germany will be needing points early when they travel to Scotland.

[Paddy Garcia]

I'd love to hear thoughts on Whelan. I have never really rated his performances apart from maybe half a dozen games. He seemed to do eff all with the ball last night, never seemed to have any time or never seemed to have the vision to pick any kind of forward pass. Hendrick showed how it should / could be done better. But I still wonder if Whelan's best attribute is simply clogging up that space in front of our penalty box, the same space that Kroos had all to himself for about 10 seconds in the build up to his goal. Clogging up that space is quite important!
.


.... totally agree - I'm never pleased to see Whelan line out. But there is no doubt that after his substitution last night there was a swing both in possession and threat to the Germans. Work off the ball, and as you say that clogging up that space may be of the utmost importance!

[tricky_colour]

It could also be argued that Coleman is not a specialist right back. Some think he is a bit of a liability defensively
indeed he seems to better than the right winger going forward.
I am surprised he has not been tried more on right midfield, he can certainly get past defenders and put a good cross in and indeed score goals.
Would he be worse than Walters?

[ArdeeBhoy]

Tbf to Ward & Whelan, whilst not perfect, were as much stalwarts as anyone else last night.
Would prefer better/different players, but can't fault their effort..

[tricky_colour]

.... totally agree - I'm never pleased to see Whelan line out. But there is no doubt that after his substitution last night there was a swing both in possession and threat to the Germans. Work off the ball, and as you say that clogging up that space may be of the utmost importance!

I have been critical of Whelan too, however I have also said that that area in front of the box is an important one to
cover to prevent the opposition scoring, so I am kind of contradicting myself there somewhat.

[Kingdom]

Considering the trauma of the last 30 months, previous results against this team, the pedigree of the opposition and some of the combinations we had to play (Meyler at RB etc), this was an excellent performance and a major, major result.

No need to get carried away - Germany were well below par, we created very little and, indeed, occasionally endeavoured to shoot ourselves in the foot with some hasty clearances. If anything this German team were even more for the taking than we acknowledged.

But after recent results, a bit of reticence and lack of composure is understandable. All things considered - the fight, spirit and intensity - was right up there and it's a great point.

It's still all about the results against Scotland and Poland but we have a great basis to have a go at this.

Great post.

[Fixer82]

What a finish to that game. I leapt 10 feet off the couch.

Did anyone notice McGeady's cheeky pass to Gibson in build up to Hoolahan's chance? Top class!

Great pass from Hendrick for the goal.

Read a few places that RMK went nuts when we scored. Any videos or photos of that floating about?

[DannyInvincible]

This is probably NSFW, so I won't post the photo, but there were some absolutely ludicrous scarves (http://balls.ie/football/lord-allowed-sell-scarves-germany-game/) being sold outside the ground in Gelsenkirchen, ha!


He's not the Wessiah, but he's not a naughty boy either.

Excellent! :D


When we finally took the game to Germany, because we had to, we constantly caused them difficulties, so why didn't we do that from the start?

If we'd really gone at them, we might indeed have exposed and been able to exploit further weaknesses. They were missing quite a few game-changing names. Could we have taken better advantage of that? Could we have won the game, like Poland did, if we'd gone on the front foot from the outset? It's hard to say really. I mean, they'd have had more space to play closer to our goal, so maybe we'd have been simply leaving ourselves open and vulnerable to more incisive penetration. Kroos and Durm showed what they could do when given the slightest bit of space around the edge of our box. Their media thinks they're a team in crisis. I'd like to think not. I'd rather think it was a brave performance and point won, rather than a cowardly two dropped, against a team who had a few injuries, of which we took advantage, but who will return to their best by going on to crush our main competition (Scotland and Poland) in the remaining games. Before bottling it again against us in Dublin, of course! :cool:

Having trumped Scotland's result in Germany by a point, the Scots are already playing catch-up in the group. And they still have to go to Georgia too. That one has "banana-skin" written all over it. Let's hope such pressure shows in Celtic Park. I'd been saying before the game that I was hoping we'd give it a proper go like Scotland did. We didn't, but I'm ecstatic. I'd rather come home with a last-gasp point having played anti-football for 75 minutes than have played plucky and direct counter-attacking football and ended up losing 2-1. The result certainly justified the means.

[tricky_colour]

So far so good, Germany had a fair bit of possession but struggle to create clear cut chance, most of their shots were from distnce, outside the area,
anyone have any stats on possession shots on target etc..

Some basic stats here, were were significantly more awesome and massively less rubbish than Germany http://www.footytube.com/video/germany-ireland-republic-oct14-306459
Indeed had 52 ratings as awesome whilst Germany managed only 2 awesome ratings.
Also Germany has 27 rubbish rating v just 1 for us.


More stats here

http://int.soccerway.com/matches/2014/10/14/europe/european-championship-qualification/germany/ireland-republic/1653212/?ICID=PL_MS_18









9
Corners
1






7
Shots on target
1






7
Shots wide
0






11
Fouls
10






2
Offsides
4


40
Republic
of
Ireland


60
Germany




http://foot.ie/image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAP///wAAACH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAICRAEAOw==Possession

Here are the Poland Germany stats for comparisonhttp://int.soccerway.com/matches/2014/10/11/europe/european-championship-qualification/poland/germany/1653189/?ICID=PL_MS_10








0
Corners
6






2
Shots on target
12






2
Shots wide
9






18
Fouls
12






3
Offsides
2


62
Germany


38
Poland






Possession




We did better on possession than Poland, did we really only have one shot on target? I guess so, just the goal, Hoolahans shot was blocked.
So we did OK more possession and we restricted Germany in shots.

[Charlie Darwin]

It could also be argued that Coleman is not a specialist right back.
I don't think anybody could argue that with a straight face. He's an out and out right back/wing back.

Having watched the game again, I'm less dispirited than I was watching it on TV last night. We set out with a game plan to frustrate them in our half - which is superficially Trap-like - but the players had a lot more freedom to make decisions and it showed as we looked more comfortable than we did under the previous manager. I think we struggled after Whelan went off - I suspect Kroos wouldn't have had 10 yards to pick his spot otherwise - but as the game drew to a close we gained a lot of composure and were able to exploit their lack of confidence.

The contribution of Kingdom and Stutts as to what was going on off-camera is invaluable, as you do miss things when you're not there (obviously there are some things you see on TV you don't see live as well). It's interesting when commentators pick their man of the match and it doesn't really tally with what you've seen on TV, and I think that might be the case with McClean last night - he was sloppy on the ball but off the ball he did some great work, and I suspect there was a lot more he did that Whelan and Hamilton would have seen from their vantage point but mightn't have been picked up by the cameras.

Our goal was brilliant. I was pleading with Wes not to take the throw-in before our goal after his previous woeful effort, but the German ballboy did us a favour and allowed him to restart the game quickly, and though his cross was overhit (although he was aiming for Hendrick and Gibson (I think) at the back, it was a wonderful piece of technical brilliance and concentration from Hendrick to ease it back into the centre and O'Shea's finish was sublime.

All in all, it wasn't a complete performance and there were some tactical errors (playing a long ball game with Keane and McGeady up front is a mistake that can't be repeated) but ultimately O'Neill read the game correctly and we got the point we went for, and it wasn't down to luck. If anything, our goal was much better worked than anything they came up with bar Goetze's chance that Forde brilliantly saved. Still, Scotland will be a different game and winning away from home against a direct rival will be an entirely new challenge.

[The Fly]

This is probably NSFW, so I won't post the photo, but there were some absolutely ludicrous scarves (http://balls.ie/football/lord-allowed-sell-scarves-germany-game/) being sold outside the ground in Gelsenkirchen, ha!


Did anyone else read that as 'absolutely ludicrous services' after seeing the NSFW tag?

(Clicking the link was a bit disappointing)

[Kingdom]

Let's be honest, Germany were, well they were well below par for World Champions. In general play they can pass it as good as the Spanish team of 4 years ago. But they had no end product.
To be fair to them they're trying to replace Klose, and they're without Basti, Lahm, Howedes, Khedira, Reus, Schuerrle und Kramer, and they still dominated us.


In hindsight, I would still have played Long ahead of Keane, kept Wes and Keane until the end. Wes had a great chance, imagine it was a fresh Keane who had that chance.
Robbie Keane definitely still has a job to do for this team. Whether that's starting against the minnows, or at home to Georgia or Poland (more so than Scotland) and the last quarter against Germany. But let's not ask him to do a job he isn't able to do. Running his leg to the bone with no opportunity to get on the ball is harsh for him.

O'Neill still hasn't hasn't given a concrete indication of what his style is. All 3 competitive games have been different.

No he definitely hasn't given us that. It is possible that he's laid out his ideas to the players though. Until we've done Scotland and Poland will we then be able to put a finger on it. What he has done though, is let the players know that all places are game ball, and if you impress you'll get a chance.


It's infuriated watching Ireland knock it back to Forde continuosly and McGeady not fulfil his potential but that's not the managements fault. Well maybe it is but which management? Arguably it's all the Irish management, from U15 up.

I'd love to see us play football like Germany, Neuer to the fullback, back to Neuer, switch play, full back, midfieder, into Kroos, picking out 30 yard passes. That might happen, but not today or next week.

That's not just Germany, that's most teams now, and really we're in a small group within UEFA who technically are behind. But the question has to be asked are we really technically lacking, and I believe the answer is no. It is either a mentality stance, or it's a tactic from management that requires the ball to be hoofed. If players are brought up that way from 7, nevermind 15 when they get to England, then of course they'll rvert to what they know best when they're under pressure.



A lovely point to get, but I don't thing we are much closer to qualification. It'll still boil down to our games v Poland and Scotland and if we play like that against either, we'll be getting a draw at the most.

I agree with you. I genuinely think people are dismissing the German performance too lightly. Every team in the group so far has created chances against them, that's football. But really they should be sitting top of this group now with 9 points. As luck would have it, they're not. However, they play Gibraltar next, so that's them level already. Whatever we get from Scotland puts us ahead, same with Poland in Georgia. They go to Georgia next, while we face Poland. Chances are they they're ahead of us again by the end of the day. I genuinely can see Germany winning every group game they've got left. Thankfully they've Dublin second to last, which should work in our favour.

Chances are we'll have to win one of those mini-group games. Scotland are in the weakest position (still having to go to Georgia - where they've been derailed previously) and with nothing from Germany.
It wouldn't be a huge surprise to see 6 draws between the three teams, therefore, we'd need to be looking to beat Germany at home to qualify, and if that didn't come to pass, then going to Warsaw and winning would be required.



Timing is everything...

Timing is everything you mad yoke, I was starting to fret, thanks for the ticket again!



I think Wes realised he had very little time to make an impact so was trying too hard. Despite his slips, falls and rubbish throw in, I still think he made a difference. He took up space in the middle to last third that nobody else did and patrolled the line well. McGeady is more effective on the flanks.
Wes could really, and I mean properly, play with and destroy Poland and Scotland, home or away. As you say he naturally takes up positions in the final third, that nobody else does. I don't think that McGeady and himself are in anyway similar though. I think we're finally going to see a system, at some point in this campaign that allows two wingers, and Wes play together, and effectively, by allowing the wingers to drift inwards with Wes free to roam right across that line.


I really really hope now that MON sees that we can cause teams bother by attacking and Trap like cagey nonsense doesnt suit us. We can win in Glasgow if we play to win it.


Absolutely. There are no excuses now. Scotland were on the rack yesterday and hung on. They have nothing in their armoury that we should fear. I don't necessarily think the Scots will be disappointed in drawing next month, nor do I think they're going to take the game to us. I think they'll happily take the point and look to do a smash and grab in Dublin. Given the nature of the two teams and the two countries, it really doesn't fall into home and away matches, until you look at the nature of the two managers. Strachan will know that if they clamp down across the field, they could stifle us. They'll know that with our return game in DUblin sandwiching the Poland visit to Dublin, things should be a lot clearer by then.
If I was Strachan, I'd discount the Germany match, strike it from the list now, and assume that Poland won't take anything Frankfurt. The Scot's know they've still got Poland to come to Glasgow. So the onus is on O'Neill now, and I think he can afford to be adventurous. A win in Glasgow would be huge for the group, and to rack up as many points as early as possible too, because I don't want us to have to go to Poland looking for a win to qualify.


Do we slam O'Neill for not starting these guys or give him credit for making changes that, minus Long, maybe looked a bit suspect? All the subs contributed to us having a real go in the final five to eight minutes.

Credit him, absolutely. He tried Murphy against Gibraltar - it didn't work. That's not O'Neill's fault, but trying Doyle out when he should have given Long another run, that is his fault. I love a manager that will try something different, it shows the manager is thinking outside his comfort zone, so to see him bringing in Hendrick first was a nice surprise.

[Kingdom]

As for a German falling down in the box, I'm glad the ref took the view that if there was no blood or broken limb, there was no foul, regardless of the anguish expressed by the fallen footballer.

I think that was their 4th penalty appeal, and the novelty was wearing thin, but for me, that was a penalty all day long. Wilson cuts in two at the hip, with the hip. I'd need to watch it again, just to see if Podolski was already going to ground before contact was made.

[tricky_colour]

I don't think anybody could argue that with a straight face. He's an out and out right back/wing back.

Having watched the game again, I'm less dispirited than I was watching it on TV last night. We set out with a game plan to frustrate them in our half - which is superficially Trap-like - but the players had a lot more freedom to make decisions and it showed as we looked more comfortable than we did under the previous manager. I think we struggled after Whelan went off - I suspect Kroos wouldn't have had 10 yards to pick his spot otherwise - but as the game drew to a close we gained a lot of composure and were able to exploit their lack of confidence.

The contribution of Kingdom and Stutts as to what was going on off-camera is invaluable, as you do miss things when you're not there (obviously there are some things you see on TV you don't see live as well). It's interesting when commentators pick their man of the match and it doesn't really tally with what you've seen on TV, and I think that might be the case with McClean last night - he was sloppy on the ball but off the ball he did some great work, and I suspect there was a lot more he did that Whelan and Hamilton would have seen from their vantage point but mightn't have been picked up by the cameras.

Our goal was brilliant. I was pleading with Wes not to take the throw-in before our goal after his previous woeful effort, but the German ballboy did us a favour and allowed him to restart the game quickly, and though his cross was overhit (although he was aiming for Hendrick and Gibson (I think) at the back, it was a wonderful piece of technical brilliance and concentration from Hendrick to ease it back into the centre and O'Shea's finish was sublime.

All in all, it wasn't a complete performance and there were some tactical errors (playing a long ball game with Keane and McGeady up front is a mistake that can't be repeated) but ultimately O'Neill read the game correctly and we got the point we went for, and it wasn't down to luck. If anything, our goal was much better worked than anything they came up with bar Goetze's chance that Forde brilliantly saved. Still, Scotland will be a different game and winning away from home against a direct rival will be an entirely new challenge.

I noticed McClean doing some good work, was rather impressed with his work rate he helped us break up their possession they could not settle on the ball, at least not in the final third.
McGeady impressed me too, he was pretty good on the ball looked like he was in control.

[DannyInvincible]

We set out with a game plan to frustrate them in our half - which is superficially Trap-like - but the players had a lot more freedom to make decisions and it showed as we looked more comfortable than we did under the previous manager.

Good point. We also had a plan B, or the ability to try something different when we went behind and plan A no longer offered us any hope of a point. Plan Bs were sorely lacking under Trap. Jesus, Sweden at home was just diabolical.

[DannyInvincible]

I think that was their 4th penalty appeal, and the novelty was wearing thin, but for me, that was a penalty all day long. Wilson cuts in two at the hip, with the hip. I'd need to watch it again, just to see if Podolski was already going to ground before contact was made.

I think Podolski had already lost his balance - he was on the way down through no fault of any fouling Irish player - and you could just as easily say he took Wilson out with him as a result. No penalty for me.

[BonnieShels]

Thought the same Danny. Would have been pretty harsh.

[geysir]

The ref let the game flow and took a positive, proactive view of the tackles that were embellished with a bit of physicality.

[backstothewall]

I think advantage Scotland should have by being at home could be negated by the hype over O'Neill making his return to Celtic Park. The favourite son treatment will be wheeled out for Martin, and it will stand in contrast to Strachan who is viewed more like a ginger step-child. It's an easy narrative for the media, and there will be a lot of Celtic fans very willing to buy into it.

The SFA should have held it at Hampden. They've foolishly levelled the playing field for the sake of a few quid.

[backstothewall]

I think Podolski had already lost his balance - he was on the way down through no fault of any fouling Irish player - and you could just as easily say he took Wilson out with him as a result. No penalty for me.

I agree. I think the booking was harsh. There was no attempt to con the ref into giving a penalty. I think he just went on his arse and then stuck his hands in the air on the off chance

[Charlie Darwin]

I think Podolski had already lost his balance - he was on the way down through no fault of any fouling Irish player - and you could just as easily say he took Wilson out with him as a result. No penalty for me.
He wasn't taken out by Wilson. It was as much a foul by Podolski as it was by Wilson, which is to say neither of them made a foul. It was just two players bumping into one another, only one team was at home and the crowd appealed. The referee was very strong throughout, correctly judging that to be an innocent clash and several German dives to be attempts to fool him. He should have booked one or both of Bellarabi or Goetze for their dives in the box.

[Charlie Darwin]

I agree. I think the booking was harsh. There was no attempt to con the ref into giving a penalty. I think he just went on his arse and then stuck his hands in the air on the off chance
Sticking his hands in the air was the attempt to con the referee.

[geysir]

I think advantage Scotland should have by being at home could be negated by the hype over O'Neill making his return to Celtic Park. The favourite son treatment will be wheeled out for Martin, and it will stand in contrast to Strachan who is viewed more like a ginger step-child. It's an easy narrative for the media, and there will be a lot of Celtic fans very willing to buy into it.

The SFA should have held it at Hampden. They've foolishly levelled the playing field for the sake of a few quid.
O'Neill returning to Celtic park won't matter at all in how it affects him or our team's preparation, neither will Celtic fans' perceptions of their ex-managers, matter in the scheme of things.
I think Celtic Park is being used because of the post commonwealth games. clear-up in Hampden pk.

[ArdeeBhoy]

I think advantage Scotland should have by being at home could be negated by the hype over O'Neill making his return to Celtic Park. The favourite son treatment will be wheeled out for Martin, and it will stand in contrast to Strachan who is viewed more like a ginger step-child. It's an easy narrative for the media, and there will be a lot of Celtic fans very willing to buy into it.

The SFA should have held it at Hampden. They've foolishly levelled the playing field for the sake of a few quid.

Er, the stadium is out of commission due to the Commonwealth Games earlier this year. Plus even Castle Greyskull is generally a better stadium. Hampdump is very mediocre these days.

[mark12345]

I think that was their 4th penalty appeal, and the novelty was wearing thin, but for me, that was a penalty all day long. Wilson cuts in two at the hip, with the hip. I'd need to watch it again, just to see if Podolski was already going to ground before contact was made.

Eh, Podolski was going to ground before contact was made - long before it, so long he was too early to make the nine o'clock news

[SwanVsDalton]

Having watched the game again, I'm less dispirited than I was watching it on TV last night. We set out with a game plan to frustrate them in our half - which is superficially Trap-like - but the players had a lot more freedom to make decisions and it showed as we looked more comfortable than we did under the previous manager.

Absolutely. I've noticed a few people saying it was Trap-like (and obviously Dunphy brayed a stupid soundbite on it at HT)but to me the approaches were totally different. Superficial similarities sure but the way the players used the ball and their commitment to playing it was much changed.


The contribution of Kingdom and Stutts as to what was going on off-camera is invaluable, as you do miss things when you're not there (obviously there are some things you see on TV you don't see live as well). It's interesting when commentators pick their man of the match and it doesn't really tally with what you've seen on TV, and I think that might be the case with McClean last night - he was sloppy on the ball but off the ball he did some great work, and I suspect there was a lot more he did that Whelan and Hamilton would have seen from their vantage point but mightn't have been picked up by the cameras.

Don't agree with that. Can't recall him giving it away much (or at all) besides two poor crosses (he also slung in two great crosses, and the centre for Hoolahan's chance). Quite contrary, he was one of only players in the first half who was using the ball intelligently and positively, often beating a man inside before looking for a pass to feet rather than hoofing or going back to Forde. He was probably our most composed player on the ball for most of the match.


He wasn't taken out by Wilson. It was as much a foul by Podolski as it was by Wilson, which is to say neither of them made a foul. It was just two players bumping into one another, only one team was at home and the crowd appealed. The referee was very strong throughout, correctly judging that to be an innocent clash and several German dives to be attempts to fool him. He should have booked one or both of Bellarabi or Goetze for their dives in the box.

I noticed both Gavin Cummiskey and Brian Kerr in the IT said it was a cast iron peno (Cummiskey wrote that Meyler had tripped him). Didn't see that at all, even from a few replays. Looked like they both came together, Podolski was falling and then decided to throw himself.