Irish Tigers and Opposition Irish

[Stuttgart88]

Prior to Financial Fair Play (both UEFA and domestic only versions) it was often the case that the only profitable football clubs were those "yo yo" clubs like WBA who'd regularly go up and down. Good business strategy for the owners.

[OwlsFan]

Serious question chaps, something I've always wondered....do teams sometimes want to get relegated? Like is it better to have a terrible year in the prem or a good year in the other one?

No one wants to get relegated. Take Wednesday for example. 15 years now since they last played Premiership football. No guarantee when a team will ever get back if they don't bounce back the first time. However, I hate this balderdash that it's worth €130 million to a club to get promoted. If that's the case why is it than most teams which are relegated are usually financially crippled? When promoted, a club has to spend a lot on new players (unless you're Burnley and get relegated straight back again) and much higher wage bill etc etc Burnley probably made a nice profit and they didn't cripple themselves as many clubs do to try and stay up. Is it not true that most clubs in the EPL are heavily in debt?

[tricky_colour]

No one wants to get relegated. Take Wednesday for example. 15 years now since they last played Premiership football. No guarantee when a team will ever get back if they don't bounce back the first time. However, I hate this balderdash that it's worth €130 million to a club to get promoted. If that's the case why is it than most teams which are relegated are usually financially crippled? When promoted, a club has to spend a lot on new players (unless you're Burnley and get relegated straight back again) and much higher wage bill etc etc Burnley probably made a nice profit and they didn't cripple themselves as many clubs do to try and stay up. Is it not true that most clubs in the EPL are heavily in debt?

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/11164447.Premier_League_promotion_worth____tens_of _millions____of_pounds_to_Burnley_economy/



Adam Bull, senior consultant in the Sports Business Group at Deloitte, said the benefits for the football club would be felt for the next five years.
Mr Bull said: “Promotion for Burnley will be worth at least £120m. Around a £60m uplift for their season in the Premier League in 2014/15 - even if they finish bottom - and then, should they get relegated after their first season, around £60m in parachute payments spread over the following four years if they do not return to the top flight in this time.”


So £60 million in the first year accord to that report.




The average annual salary of Premier League (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/premier-league/) footballers has broken through the £2m barrier for the first time, a new survey has revealed.

Premier League players earned an average of £2.3m - or £43,000-a-week - during the 2013-14 season, a huge jump from the average of £1.6m the season before.




But how many players is that for? 11? 23? 44? (Burnley has 44 players in it's first team squad).
So that might be 88 million in player salaries, but much less I expect.




AVERAGE SALARIES IN WORLD LEAGUES
Source: Daily Mail (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2833020/Premier-League-wages-dwarf-Europe-flight-players-England-earning-average-2-3million-year.html)
1. English Premier League: £2.2m
2. Germany: £1.5m
3. Italy: £1.3m
4. Spain: £1.2m
5. France: £1m

6. Russia: 0.9m

7. Brazil 0.6m
8. English Championship: 0.5m


It is going to less down the bottom end of the league.

There are no doubt lots of other costs, buying players, other staff, ground maintenance costs.


12 teams had a net spend on players of less than £10m.
7 spend less than £2m including Burnley.

[Crosby87]

That's the first time anyone used the term "Balderdash" in foot.ie history. Truly remarkable.

[Closed Account]

That's the first time anyone used the term "Balderdash" in foot.ie history. Truly remarkable.
http://foot.ie/search.php?searchid=2854867

[tricky_colour]

http://foot.ie/search.php?searchid=2854867

Does not work

http://foot.ie/search.php?searchid=2854933


This may not work either as the results may be temporary

But it returned 21 results..

[OwlsFan]

That's the first time anyone used the term "Balderdash" in foot.ie history. Truly remarkable.

I am in good company. Geyser used it in the John Delaney thread !

[OwlsFan]

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/11164447.Premier_League_promotion_worth____tens_of _millions____of_pounds_to_Burnley_economy/



So £60 million in the first year accord to that report.

The truth would be to look at Burnley's books before they were promoted and at the end of this season. Is there £60 million or £120 million or whatever more resting in their account? I very much doubt it.

[osarusan]

Nobody wants to get relegated, they still have their big wage bill usually.

I'd say teams have a clause in players' conracts about wage drops in the case of relegation. Somewhere in the range of a 33% reduction.

[tricky_colour]

I'd say teams have a clause in players' conracts about wage drops in the case of relegation. Somewhere in the range of a 33% reduction.

Well they certainly should have something like that.
You can only pay players what you can afford, however some clubs attempt to buy success and fail miserably.
I think Leeds was a case of that "Living the dream" and Glasgow Rangers too? Not too sure on my facts as always though!!!

[Stuttgart88]

I'd say teams have a clause in players' conracts about wage drops in the case of relegation. Somewhere in the range of a 33% reduction.
They should have but many don't.

[osarusan]

They should have but many don't.
Oh Yeah. I seem to remember that Jimmy Bullard's 'loyalty' to his relegated club has a lot to do with the lack of a relegation clause in his contract.

According to this, Hull do have one for all 'new signings':

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/premier-league/11586400/Premier-League-relegation-battle-who-will-survive.html


Bruce’s public admission that all the new signings had a relegation clause inserted into their contracts shows Hull have planned for the worst.

[tricky_colour]

Of course the problem for clubs is players do not like such clauses and to get the player you
want you might have to drop it.
From a player point of view he might prefer a bit more stability, ie less money but no relegation clause.

[tricky_colour]

Oh Yeah. I seem to remember that Jimmy Bullard's 'loyalty' to his relegated club has a lot to do with the lack of a relegation clause in his contract.

According to this, Hull do have one for all 'new signings':

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/premier-league/11586400/Premier-League-relegation-battle-who-will-survive.html

Does not seemed to have worked very well so far!

Still two (tough) games to go though, I expect most of those down the bottom end have
similar clause and indeed probably those higher up too, as it would never likely be inacted anyway.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Lenihan, McShane, Quinn, Meyler, Brady, Manning, Grego-Cox, Murphy, Dunne, Long, Reid, Ward going down. 6 players who were getting first team football, Long was given a new contract by Burnley, Lenihan & Manning are highly rated and Grego-Cox had broken through at QPR. It's pretty disastrous from an Irish perspective.

My prediction of a Norwich v Middlesbrough Playoff final looks like coming to fruition so it looks like Hoban, Arter & possibly Hoolahan will be the only Irish players coming in to replace them in the PL, unless O'Kane wins back his place in a title winning team and Murray has a barnstorming pre-season.

Hopefully Nigel Pearson tries to sign Robbie Brady for Leicester, having worked with him before. That lad deserves to remain in the PL.

http://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/Philip-Buckingham-Robbie-Brady-Hull-City-s/story-26474914-detail/story.html

Brady's luck in that game sums up what it's been like to be an Irish supporter this year. At least himself, McShane and Quinn are coming away with some credit.

[nigel-harps1954]

I'd expect a few of those Hull players to be offered contracts at lower Premier clubs. Brady and McShane, in my view, are almost certain to be offered some sort of Premier League deals.

In the case of a lot of the younger players, it may be much better for them that they drop a division as they'll probably get some game time in around the Championship. Lenihan, Manning, Grego-Cox and Long will probably get some game time now where they haven't really this season.

I don't think it's particularly disastrous, aside from a couple of players that'd be in around the Ireland first team who will probably move on anyway.

[SkStu]

Disastrous?? Really? And that's not even pointing out that Hull are still not relegated. Bizarre as ever TOWK.

Replace them in the premier league? Manning? Lenihan? Murphy? Long? Reid? Grego-Cox? Good god.

[tetsujin1979]

Thread cleaned. Grow up you lot.

[dr_peepee]

I heard on one of the podcasts that Burnley players all have clauses of 50% pay cuts upon relegation.... They could be shaping up to by this generations Charlton. The C'ship is harder to get out of now though.

[DeLorean]

Jake Livermore suspended by Hull for the rest of the season after failing a drug test, testing positive for cocaine, according to SSN. Presume Meyler is likely to start in his place.

[Stuttgart88]

A darker side to the Hull City underdog story, David Conn claiming the club relied on public money for its academy facility but then insisted on sole tenancy, at the expense of community sports participants, in order to comply with EPL requirements.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2015/may/15/livermore-drug-ban-malaise-hull-city-relegation

[Stuttgart88]

All four of the main Irish start for Hull today. 0-0 at moment with Newcastle winning at QPR.

[Charlie Darwin]

Bad news as Newcastle go 1-0 up.

[Charlie Darwin]

Bad to worse, Spurs 1-0 up. Even a win on the final day might not be enough if they lose this.

[Wolfman]

Good.

[tricky_colour]

Hull will stay up when they beat Man U!!

You are probaly laughing now but we shall see ;)

[SkStu]

I still think they will do it. But it could be that I just really, really, fckin really want Newcastle to go down.

[Charlie Darwin]

Good.
Why good?

[DannyInvincible]

An old buddy of mine has written a top-notch and much-needed review for Balls.ie/TheSlicedPan.com of Steve Bruce's legendary novel 'Striker': http://www.theslicedpan.com/football/steve-bruce-novel/293169

[DannyInvincible]

Hull putting United under a lot of pressure. McShane and Quinn have already had two goals ruled out. Offside calls were completely correct, but indicative of the very positive effort Hull have been putting in so far.

[Charlie Darwin]

Hull still drawing but Neecastle have gone 1-0 up. Need changes in both games now.

[Charlie Darwin]

Fellaini sent off for a sickening challenge on McShane. Bandaged head and thigh, McShane plays on.

[Stuttgart88]

I think I could see a chunk taken out of McShane's thigh. That or a bad cut.

Impressed by Brady, Quinn and McShane today. Usual from Meyler, safe but I feel like screaming at him to do more. I'm not sure he has that bit extra though.

Brady's delivery is quality. McShane is really solid. I'd consider him for the left back role against Scitland. He's an O'Neill type player. Quinn busy and effective.

[TrapAPony]

McShane is really solid. I'd consider him for the left back role against Scitland.

For me, he is centre half or nothing. Always gets badly exposed for pace at full back. At least with him playing well at centre half that it gives us options against Scotland.

[Charlie Darwin]

For me, he is centre half or nothing. Always gets badly exposed for pace at full back. At least with him playing well at centre half that it gives us options against Scotland.
Thing is he was never a full back. He's just an honest enough player that he'll play wherever he's asked to, often to his own detriment.

[tricky_colour]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/05/24/21/290A072300000578-3095248-image-a-54_1432499863589.jpg


More pics here

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3095248/Manchester-United-star-Marouane-Fellaini-sees-red-vicious-stamp-Paul-McShane-18-minutes-coming-bench.html

[DeLorean]

Awful tackle, one of those cowardly ones where Fellaini knew McShane was coming in strong so he made sure that he wasn't the one getting hurt.

Recent jokes aside, we really could have done without Hull being relegated as their Irish contingent are either first choice or close enough for us. I think all four have proved they're good enough for the PL, but maybe only Brady would be guaranteed interest in the summer. McShane and Quinn are both 29 so it's a possibility that we won't see them at that level again, hopefully that's not the case. Danny Murphy said on MOTD that Brady was the best player on the pitch by a mile yesterday. I only saw bits and pieces myself but his delivery was excellent. McShane should be ahead of Keogh in our famous centre back order of merit also.

[seanfhear]

Brady is a very good crosser and he does not have to beat his man to get the ball in ! (Ooo..errr if that doesn't come across as too homo-erotic);)

[Crosby87]

A picture of Quin and Meyler embracing in the NY Post. Ugh.

[tricky_colour]

A picture of Quin and Meyler embracing in the NY Post. Ugh.



Where?


https://s1.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/6rKAphuGnR01cGdxHXVA2w--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9ZmlsbDtoPTM3NztpbD1wbGFuZTtweG 9mZj01MDtweW9mZj0wO3E9NzU7dz02NzA-/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/afp.com/a9656b46e8f5cbdb6dfe3d16c03ba87c444355dd.jpg

:distrust:

[tricky_colour]

So any chance of a Premiership club coming in for any of the Hull Irish?

[Olé Olé]

So any chance of a Premiership club coming in for any of the Hull Irish?

I think Brady is the only one that has definite PL quality. There are probably similar/better players in the Championship as far as Meyler and Quinn are concerned. Quinn might get lucky because, if I remember correctly, he was linked with Leicester at one stage during the season.

For me, the jury is out on McShane. He's played well for Hull. Is that enough for someone to come in for him? I wouldn't say he's far too good for Championship. Although he had a fractious relationship with Bruce this season. Another Championship side showing interest might have him thinking the grass is greener elsewhere.

I'm not holding out hope for any of them. Maybe a season starring in the Championship won't do any harm to Brady as he is still only 23.

[DeLorean]

I suppose it's better to start regularly in the Championship than sit on the bench in the PL. Hull would look to have a decent chance of challenging for promotion again, although these things are difficult to gauge, so maybe that would be the best way back for McShane, Quinn and Meyler. I'd be disappointed if Brady didn't move on though, he's easily a mid-table PL player.

[Olé Olé]

I agree that Brady is easily a mid-PL player but he's not had a good, uninterrupted run of form since the season he helped Hull to promotion. Moving to another PL side now runs the risk of him not getting regular chances. Moving down to the Championship at 23 runs the risk of him not coming back up quickly but I think a full season there with goals, assists and placed balls would do him the world of good.

If he goes to another PL side now then he might not be first choice for placed balls etc. It's a tough one to balance.

[DeLorean]

I didn't see all of the game last night but Meyler and McGeady were both taken off after about an hour. Meyler looked busy though from what I saw with McGeady ineffective. Westwood made some very smart saves to keep Hull out. OwlsFan - I'd say you're fairly sickened about that red card for Forestieri, the worst decision I've seen in a while. Daft that you can't appeal in these circumstances. I also thought it was also a clear foul by Powell on Nuhiu a few minutes earlier which could have been a useful set piece opportunity.

[OwlsFan]

I didn't see all of the game last night but Meyler and McGeady were both taken off after about an hour. Meyler looked busy though from what I saw with McGeady ineffective. Westwood made some very smart saves to keep Hull out. OwlsFan - I'd say you're fairly sickened about that red card for Forestieri, the worst decision I've seen in a while. Daft that you can't appeal in these circumstances. I also thought it was also a clear foul by Powell on Nuhiu a few minutes earlier which could have been a useful set piece opportunity.

I saw the whole game :) I am afraid Meyler was anonymous for most of the game. McGeady did what McGeady does and I thought he did ok, but I have seen adverse comments elsewhere. He was taken off because he still isn't match fit (according to the manager). Westwood did well and the interesting thing is that Roy Keane was in the stands watching the game and he stayed on even after two of the three Irish were subbed after an hour. Is there hope for Westwood? The latter is still a bit delegate and he started holding discrete areas of his groin after one save but it didn't affect him for the rest of the game.

I agree with you on the other matters but we won't bore the Irish fans on this thread with the ins and outs of those decisions.

[DeLorean]

It's my thread, we'll do what we like :p

I saw very little of the first half but all of the second. Meyler was involved in the 15mins of the second half he was on, although one of his involvements was coughing up possession.

[Demesne Lad]

Sean McLaughlin starts at LB for Hull City, Christie and Connolly on the bench. (BBC Football)

[John83]

Zombie thread alert!

[tetsujin1979]

Bump!
1747347078143942755