Republic of Ireland V Sweden - Friday, 6th September 2013 - World Cup 2014 Qualifier

[third policeman]

Good choice. He did qualify for three World Cups after all.


Three? Respect to Bingham as an Irish footballing great, but these would be the 82, 86 and ????

[geysir]

Contrary to an earlier report from an ill informed poster, the definitely out Lustig, is definitely in.

[tricky_colour]

Starting to get warmed up for this. Surprising amount of interest in going to the pub to watch the match here in Chicago.

I expect there would be a good few of supporting the Swedes too?

[tricky_colour]

Off to a good start, my bet for a 4-0 Ireland win is looking good ;)

[shakermaker1982]

Good positive start.

[tricky_colour]

Get in!!!!!!!

[tricky_colour]

Unusual for Keane to do his roll before scoring!!!!

[tricky_colour]

Crumbs gotta hold on to the lead and not sit back.

Bang on schedule for 4-0 though.

[shakermaker1982]

Shane Long has been a beast. Just give Keano one more chance.

[paul_oshea]

told ye forde would be our undoing.how the fcuk he is si slow to get down.and under him.

[shakermaker1982]

Stunned how bad we played after going 1 nil up.

Glenn Whelan. My God.

[Bottle of Tonic]

Team crammed with average players. Squad crammed with middle of the road no-bodies. Rarely have I felt so deflated watching Ireland. A defeat like this used to put me into a couple of days depression. Now its just a dull lingering sadness that the inevitable has come to pass.

[mark12345]

Shane Long has been a beast. Just give Keano one more chance.

It's all over in more ways than one!

I was full of "I told you so's" just a few minutes ago, but at this point I say what is the point in placing blame?

Can't blame Trap for the two goals, and as much as I want to say this player or that didn't perform well, I have to say we just don't have it any more.

At this premature stage I'd say we'll see Trap and Robbie retire before Tuesday. Nothing left to play for. It's time to begin the long road to rebuilding a new Ireland, and that starts with the coaches who teach the kids every weekend across the length and breadth of the country.

[mark12345]

How did Gio's man Whelan play?

Another good game eh?

For including him Trap should get the bullet. Amazing to think that a punter like me (and you Shakermaker along with the rest of creation) can see that Whelan has nothing to offer and Trap the vaunted manager that he is cannot see the same thing.

[Closed Account 2]

Glenn Whelan couldn't keep up with a 37 year old for their goal...

[tricky_colour]

Looking at the positives you can get 1000-1 on us winning the world cup, £1000 on that and you are a millionaire, enough to buy Bales toe nail clippings.

[brine3]

Five years of Glen Whelan.

[tricky_colour]

Should have played Owen Garven in midfield, I bet he would have been fired up.

[Grafter]

It's all too toxic to talk about at this time. Unplugging from Ireland talk for a week at least, think I'll go for a walk Tuesday night.

[brine3]

With a decent manager we would have beaten Austria at home. That puts us on 13 points. We'd have gotten four points against Sweden. That puts us on 16 points.

With Austria on 10 and Sweden on 11.

That's the god honest truth, I don't care what anyone says.

[boovidge]

Time to look forward to France 2016 now. Onwards and upwards.

[geysir]

After a savage goal from Robbie, what followed after was 'disappointing'.
Inability to play through the middle was just one of our undoings, it use to be the main one, but now there are plenty of challengers. Wilson had a nightmare. I was urging the ref to give Glen a red card but essentially our redundant tactics paid no dividends and the players should probably be given a free pass from criticism.

Earlier mentioned critic of Forde as being the architect of our doom ....... go take a running jump :)

[brine3]

We didn't create that goal. That goal was lucky. Good finish from Robbie, but we didn't create that goal. We created f all.

Zlatan really showed Robbie Keane who's boss. Zlatan is a great striker, but he's also a great team player.

[RiffRaff]

Much as a I hate to see Ireland lose, I see this as a new beginning. Trap should have gone after the Euros and leaving him on after losing a match 6-1 at home was inexcusable. Contrary to what a lot of people say, I think we have the makings of a very good team but at the moment there is zero self belief.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Mixed feelings I have to say.

One thing I think I want to get out there is that I think a lot of people, myself included, got sucked into a line of thinking that Sweden were some over-rated team that were treading water or something, a thought given credence by a somewhat stale showing in Stockholm against us.

But they were awesome at times tonight, passing with ease, defending strongly and physically in the second half. Ibrahimovich may not have been the 30 goal a year striker out there tonight, but his crosses, through balls and assists were top notch. That cross in the first half, sublime. Started out the run-up to the first Swedish goal with a great switching pass from middle to right. Elmander was also looking dangerous, Larrson was a beast going forward.

I usually don’t have sympathy for the viewpoint that “Sure, we can’t be excepting to beat teams like XXX”, but a little, tiny bit of it pervaded into me tonight. I thought the Swedes were very, very good, bounced back from the Keane goal brilliantly and never looked like losing after they went ahead.

So, on Ireland. First half hour/35 minutes was great. We were passing the ball, working the left wing hard, pushing Sweden. Zlatan looked ineffective and we made chances.
But Elmander scored and it just fell apart. Did we have a shot on target in the second half? The second Swedish goal went in and it was back to the long ball. Sure Keane scored off one, but that was a defensive ****-up, a very singular one for the Swedes (more on that in a sec). Hoof, hoof, hoof, in the last 20 minutes, hit and hope. Nothing being created through the middle, no one on the end of crosses.

Forde in goal, some good saves, especially at the feet of Elmander (?) in the second, but thought he should have done better with the first goal. He clearly wasn’t prepared for the header and didn’t have his hands ready, flapped at it rather hopelessly like it was coming at his head.

Defence, iffy, but we’ve come to expect that. Dunne is lacking a little bit of pace now, but still performed admirably, that penalty area interception in the first half typical of him. O’Shea, as good as you can reasonably expect him to be. Both of them, struggling against younger, faster opposition. Wilson and Coleman did OK coming up the wings, provided that extra option on the wings, but thought they were struggling to deal with the Swedish attackers and through balls all night.

McClean, great performance. Full of confidence, challenging the Swedish defenders, getting crosses in or winning corners. Taking him off was criminal I thought, even if Pilkington did an acceptable job. McCarthy was largely anonymous, a shame, didn’t really throw himself around as much as I hoped he would.

Whelan was dreadful. This role he picked up, of being the man on the edge of the area who took the loose ball and shot was hilariously inept, two wides and one straight at the keeper. Several bad passes and unable to keep up with the pace towards the end. Get him out of the team.

Walters, out of position, kept coming inside to the centre and looked very uncomfortable on the right. His substitution was inevitable, but putting Cox on, barely played this season and out of position Simon Cox, was a travesty. Trap has the worst substitution sense of any manager I have seen lately. Nothing changed when they came on, when things needed to change.

Up front, was disgusted with Long. I used to think he was the great prospect for Ireland, but that opinion has been slowly eroded away to this low point. Wasteful, slow on the ball, and smiling away with ten minutes to go like Ireland were a few goals up. That chance lateish on, when Keane was waiting to be picked out with a simple cross goal pass, was shocking. Long ballsed it up unforgivably. Cox, Walters, Sammon, Doyle, whoever. Get them in that position over him.

Keane, well, I’ve criticised him a lot over the last few years, but was impressed tonight. He fought hard for his goal, made himself a threat and just never seemed to stop urging the team on, which is what you want from a captain. Nicking the ball off the keeper, spinning after he hit the ground and then getting up to smash it home, which was brilliant.

I said I had mixed feelings. I thought that, in the first half, we looked as potent and threatening as we ever have done under Trap, far more than we did in any game in Poland. I was confident we could get something. Numerous players were having great games.

And then the second half, with the turgid long balls, the pathetic substitutions, and the whimper of a finish. So sad to see. Maybe Sweden were just too good for us tonight, but I refuse to believe that this is the best that we can expect Ireland to play with the players that are available to us.

Asking whether Trap is to blame is the wrong question I think. Asking if someone else could do a better job – could beat Austria at home, get four or even two points off Sweden, could be at least competitive with Germany – is a more pertinent question. I think someone could. To see him claim that Ireland have done “a great job” is baffling to me.

I’m sure people will defend him still, and point out the increasingly narrow number of scenarios where Ireland snatch a play-off spot, but this campaign has just been one long game of “When will he be sacked?” to me, sometimes anyway. I suspect he will be allowed to see out this campaign. After that, we start again.

Also, can we retire George Hamilton already? The guy was writing Ireland off with 25 minutes to go, with enough hyperbole to fill the stadium.

[boovidge]

Zlatan really showed Robbie Keane who's boss. Zlatan is a great striker, but he's also a great team player.

Strange analysis. No one claims that Keane has the same finesse and technical ability as Ibrahimovic; they're totally different types of striker. Keane got a good goal tonight and would have had two if Long had played a simple pass to him.

[Stuttgart88]

Long was utterly awful tonight. Whelan a complete passenger. Tactic of long hoof ball was all we showed. Players ran away from our defenders instead of showing for it. Brady and Hoolahan left on the bench. Abject rubbish in a nutshell. Manager has to take the rap. 3 full campaigns without a decent home performance, maybe Italy at Croker excepted but even then we were second best most of the time.

[Stuttgart88]

I don't agree with Never Felt Better at all. I've seen Eastern European minnows play much better than Sweden. I honestly don't think I have ever seen an international match so lacking even one midfielder on either team capable of doing the midfield basics right. Larsson impressed me in the second half, but I think they just twigged after 30 minutes or so that we had nothing but long balls to offer.

[pineapple stu]

Amazing how quickly the game turned after we went 1-0 up. We'd played some lovely stuff up till then, kept possession around their penalty box well in particular, carved out a couple of chances, got the goal - and then Long picked up that injury, and it all went downhill very quickly. For most of the second half, we were rudderless and toothless, relying on long balls into the box.

What on earth happened?

Why were we playing with ten men for so long (including when the equaliser went in)? Was it just a case that the ball didn't go out of play so there wasn't a break for Long to come back on?

After Long went off for treatment, we hardly had a single shot on goal. We still have no midfield worth talking about. Long had some great touches - including the assist for the goal - and yet twice he had a great chance to put in a low cross across the box and he didn't manage it. When Keane retires, we'll have the same problems but with half the goals.

Is it head-to-head that decides teams level on points? I think that means if Sweden beat Kazakhstan on Tuesday and we don't win in Germany, we're out regardless of other results.

Are Armenia still the best team Trap has beaten in a competitive match (taking the Paris game as a draw?)

We'll get worse before we get better, I think.

[pineapple stu]

Also, can we retire George Hamilton already? The guy was writing Ireland off with 25 minutes to go, with enough hyperbole to fill the stadium.
I didn't hear the commentary, but I don't see a problem with that if it's what he said. It's no different to what you've said in your post. "Turgid", "pathetic", "long balls" - very easy to write us off watching that.

[brine3]

Strange analysis. No one claims that Keane has the same finesse and technical ability as Ibrahimovic; they're totally different types of striker. Keane got a good goal tonight and would have had two if Long had played a simple pass to him.

Keane got his goal as usual but contributed very little else to the match. Zlatan didn't score but worked his hole off in midfield.

Football is team sport and Zlatan finished up on the winning side.

The difference I am talking about isn't finesse and technical ability - it's Zlatan's winning mentality.

[brine3]

Much as a I hate to see Ireland lose, I see this as a new beginning. Trap should have gone after the Euros and leaving him on after losing a match 6-1 at home was inexcusable..

Yep, he cost too much to sack. But as me and many others said at the time, missing out on the World Cup will also cost the FAI money. As will all the half empty matches at Lansdowne Road. How many people will show up for the Faroes match now? How many people have been showing up for Trap's friendlies? Even the match at home to Austria was half-empty.

[tricky_colour]

Trap could have arranged the deckchairs better than that.

But we also need some new deckchairs, shiny light aluminium ones, not those big old heavy wooden ones that are impossible to put together.

[Closed Account 2]

Long was utterly awful tonight. Whelan a complete passenger.

That's being generous, passenger implies movement.

I thought Sweden were very ordinary and our lack of invention was shocking. I'll be amazed if Sweden make it through the playoffs, and it wouldn't shock me if Austria nick in ahead of them. Our race is run until this time next year, time for a new system, some new players and after Tuesday a new manager.

[geysir]

Keane got his goal as usual but contributed very little else to the match. Zlatan didn't score but worked his hole off in midfield.

Football is team sport and Zlatan finished up on the winning side.

The difference I am talking about isn't finesse and technical ability - it's Zlatan's winning mentality.
What is the point of comparing Robbie to Zlatan?
Are you on a rant to put down our best striker because he isn't Zlatan? or trying to say that because Robbie isn't Zlatan we lost the game?
We know what Robbie is about and we have 'loved' that for the last 13 years or so.
The reason we lost is not because Robbie is not Zlatan or vice versa.

[tricky_colour]

I though after Long got a knock he was ineffective I thought he could have helped out more when we were defending.

[NeverFeltBetter]

I didn't hear the commentary, but I don't see a problem with that if it's what he said. It's no different to what you've said in your post. "Turgid", "pathetic", "long balls" - very easy to write us off watching that.

It was more "Ireland are definitely not going to Brazil now" with a half hour still to play, which I dislike from any commentary team. If he wants to analyze Dunphy-style, he can go into the studio.

[mark12345]

Amazing how quickly the game turned after we went 1-0 up. We'd played some lovely stuff up till then, kept possession around their penalty box well in particular, carved out a couple of chances, got the goal - and then Long picked up that injury, and it all went downhill very quickly. For most of the second half, we were rudderless and toothless, relying on long balls into the box.

What on earth happened?

Why were we playing with ten men for so long (including when the equaliser went in)? Was it just a case that the ball didn't go out of play so there wasn't a break for Long to come back on?

After Long went off for treatment, we hardly had a single shot on goal. We still have no midfield worth talking about. Long had some great touches - including the assist for the goal - and yet twice he had a great chance to put in a low cross across the box and he didn't manage it. When Keane retires, we'll have the same problems but with half the goals.

Is it head-to-head that decides teams level on points? I think that means if Sweden beat Kazakhstan on Tuesday and we don't win in Germany, we're out regardless of other results.

Are Armenia still the best team Trap has beaten in a competitive match (taking the Paris game as a draw?)

We'll get worse before we get better, I think.

Time to seriously think about a new manager. I've said it earlier that it wasn't his fault the team can't put goals away and can't defend when they need to, but one thing I always judge a manger by (especially of smaller nations like ours) is his ability to recognize his best players and play them. It was a malaise Scotland had back in the 70's and 80's - they had world class forwards and failed to pick many of them on a regular basis. It's totally unacceptable for a manager of a smaller country not to get his personnel choices right. Which leads to Mr Whelan. Trap was told by anyone with a pulse that Whelan did not have what it took to do the job. But Trap couldn't care less about the words of advice he got from the supporters about Wheland. He relied on his "better judgement" and cast us all as fools. Well who's looking like the fools tonight - he and his right hand man Mr Whelan.

I really fell bad for two of Ireland's most creative weapons - Hoolahan and Brady - that they didn't get a look in tonight. But that just sums up Trap. If you have any creativity you might as well stay home like Andy Reid.

[geysir]

I though after Long got a knock he was ineffective I thought he could have helped out more when we were defending.
I don't know how this hoof ball game should be played in order to figure out how or where our striker should be defending.
Under 'normal ' circumstances i'd expect our strikers to close down high up the pitch and then retreat to close down in midfield.
Long was not the problem in our team, our main problem was bi-passing cm and hoofing the ball up front as our default tactic.

[Stuttgart88]

I though after Long got a knock he was ineffective I thought he could have helped out more when we were defending.

Longs first involvement that I can recall was to give away a totally moronic free kick in their half when they were under pressure. That was the high point of his game. Decent player but utter garbage tonight. Really really not at the races at all. He had a 3 on 2 situation in the first half and did nothing with it and didn't see an obvious square ball the Keane in the second half. On tonight's evidence Hull had a lucky escape.

[Stuttgart88]

I don't know how this hoof ball game should be played in order to figure out how or where our striker should be defending.
Under 'normal ' circumstances i'd expect our strikers to close down high up the pitch and then retreat to close down in midfield.
Long was not the problem in our team, our main problem was bi-passing cm and hoofing the ball up front as our default tactic.
Agree totally but I think Long deserves to be singled out for paying below his capability. Whelan is always that bad.

[wonder88]

If Long was off the pitch when Sweden scored it reflects badly on the Irish management. I fail to understand the 2 subs that where made, McClean had a great game, ok his setpieces were poor but the tackles and the way he ran at the Swedish defence more that made up for it.

[brine3]

What is the point of comparing Robbie to Zlatan?
Are you on a rant to put down our best striker because he isn't Zlatan? or trying to say that because Robbie isn't Zlatan we lost the game?
We know what Robbie is about and we have 'loved' that for the last 13 years or so.
The reason we lost is not because Robbie is not Zlatan or vice versa.

Clearly you are not reading what I am saying.

I am delighted that Robbie scores goals. That's his positive contribution to the cause. Unfortunately his inability to be a team player is his negative contribution. The team has to carry Robbie. He's a passenger in many ways. If he doesn't score, he contributes nothing. The manager has to weigh up whether his positives outweigh his negatives. Many managers (how many clubs has he gone through?) have come to the conclusion that he is not.

I love football because it's a team game.

As far as I'm concerned the next manager should pick eleven players who are interested in playing as a unit and passing the ball. Being tactically astute, playing possession football and being patient and intelligent.

The best player this team has had in the past 13 years, after Roy Keane, is Damien Duff, make no mistake. We miss him like no other.

[brine3]

Time to seriously think about a new manager. I've said it earlier that it wasn't his fault the team can't put goals away and can't defend when they need to

Of course it's his fault. There has been a massive black hole in our midfield for five years now. Every man and his dog knows we need to play three in the centre of the park. We got away playing two in the centre of the park when we had Keane and Kinsella, which was one of the best partnerships in international football at the time. But now we need three in the park, holding on to the ball and playing patient football. A triange of Gibson-McCarthy-Hoolahan with Hoolahan at the front of the triangle.

You can't play football without the football. It's that simple.

[dong]

Clearly you are not reading what I am saying.

I am delighted that Robbie scores goals. That's his positive contribution to the cause. Unfortunately his inability to be a team player is his negative contribution. The team has to carry Robbie. He's a passenger in many ways. If he doesn't score, he contributes nothing. The manager has to weigh up whether his positives outweigh his negatives. Many managers (how many clubs has he gone through?) have come to the conclusion that he is not.

I love football because it's a team game.

As far as I'm concerned the next manager should pick eleven players who are interested in playing as a unit and passing the ball. Being tactically astute, playing possession football and being patient and intelligent.

The best player this team has had in the past 13 years is Damien Duff, make no mistake. We miss him like no other.

Im no big Robbie Keane fan and have only a passing interest in the international side but football teams need goals to win games (yes its a cliche) and nobody has delivered like Keane for the Irish team over the past decade.

I'd like to say we will see his likes again but chances are we won't, in my lifetime anyways. You say we miss Duff, but even if we had him, who would have scored last night in all honesty?

I see Wales lost to Macedonia as well. Hmmm.

[Strongbow10]

Time to seriously think about a new manager. I've said it earlier that it wasn't his fault the team can't put goals away and can't defend when they need to, but one thing I always judge a manger by (especially of smaller nations like ours) is his ability to recognize his best players and play them. It was a malaise Scotland had back in the 70's and 80's - they had world class forwards and failed to pick many of them on a regular basis. It's totally unacceptable for a manager of a smaller country not to get his personnel choices right. Which leads to Mr Whelan. Trap was told by anyone with a pulse that Whelan did not have what it took to do the job. But Trap couldn't care less about the words of advice he got from the supporters about Wheland. He relied on his "better judgement" and cast us all as fools. Well who's looking like the fools tonight - he and his right hand man Mr Whelan.

I really fell bad for two of Ireland's most creative weapons - Hoolahan and Brady - that they didn't get a look in tonight. But that just sums up Trap. If you have any creativity you might as well stay home like Andy Reid.

I genuinely struggle to see what Glenn Whelan brings to the Irish first XI.

The guy is unable to run at speed, he is unable to tackle and his passing is poor. I simply just don't get it.

You see i'd be able to stomach a negative Irish team if they were effective in their strategy. If there was a dog of war in the middle of the park who won tackles and just passed it 5 yards to someone who could actually play.

We simply don't have any of that. Trap has to go, but don't for one second believe that he instructs his players to lump it 9 times out of 10. Its a lack of balls, and a lack of personality by 99% of our players. They need encouragement to play sure, but they also need courage and bottle to not be afraid of losing possession.

This management set up lacks imagination obviously, but some of our players (players folks have been crying out for to be mainstays of the first XI- Wilson, McCarthy, McClean, Long etc...) are the most one dimensional footballers you will ever see.

Robbie Keane for a guy of 32-33 years of age still has not developed any game intelligence to drop deep into midfield when we don't have the ball. Unless he scores, we are carrying a passenger. They guy has not challenged for a header in 15 years in the game if you watch closely, his trademark run in behind a defender for a ball that will never arrive is customary.

Some people point at the goals Keane scores as a reason for claiming him to indispensible, i'd completely disagree with anything of the sort. The guy has got the team set up around him, the focus is him in attack.

Van Nistelrooy was a goal machine at United years back, did very little else mind. They were actually a better side when they had shut of RVN as other guys stepped into the breach and had to take responsibility.

Now i'm not for one minute claiming Wes Hoolohan to be the second coming, it will in time turn out to be another Andy Reid situation. But can anyone tell me what Glenn Whelan does that Wes cannot? Sure Hoolohan features further up the park for Norwich. But anyone watching Whelan knows the guy is defensively inadequate despite being well versed in keeping his shape? You only need to watch his last 30 odd games to see the problems teams cause us when they drop a man in between our midfield and defence. One pinpoint pass to such a player and Whelan is gone, out of the game. Too slow to track a runner and a poor poor tackler to boot. So i'll ask again, what is such a poor defensive shield doing provide cover in front of our defence for the last 5 or 6 years? Neither capable of playing box to box with creativity or mobility nor able to adequately provide defensive protection?

These are the questions the guys on RTE need to start asking aswell, not once have they aimed any criticism over selection of some of these first XI mainstays. Its frankly outrageous.

Paul McShane, Darren O'Dea, Stephen Ward, Paul Green, Glenn Whelan, Andy Keogh, Connor Sammon. Personally, I think its criminal that some of these guys get in the squad let alone get any game time. Its actually shameful.

[brine3]

This management set up lacks imagination obviously, but some of our players (players folks have been crying out for to be mainstays of the first XI- Wilson, McCarthy, McClean, Long etc...) are the most one dimensional footballers you will ever see.

I wouldn't say that about Wilson or McCarthy. Wilson is a decent defender who is fairly comfortable on the ball. I watched many Wigan games last season and McCarthy reminds me of Mark Kinsella. Intelligent positioning, simple passes, handy interceptions. And he's only 22, don't forget that. Of course, you put him a Trap team and he won't shine. Who has he got to help him out in midfield? Only Glenn Whelan. McClean doesn't have the intelligence, Walters is a striker playing on the wing and Keane couldn't be bothered.

[Bungle]

Coleman, Wilson and McCarthy were awful tonight. They looked scared of the ball and looked so different to the players that play in the Premier League week in week out. All will be great for us in the coming years though.

Criminal not playing Wessi and Brady, but hey Trap was ever so predictable. Our play was straight out of the Poznam/Gdansk play book. A decent senior league team would work our hoofball tactics out in no time, let alone a good international team.

[geysir]

Clearly you are not reading what I am saying.

I am delighted that Robbie scores goals. That's his positive contribution to the cause. Unfortunately his inability to be a team player is his negative contribution. The team has to carry Robbie. He's a passenger in many ways. If he doesn't score, he contributes nothing. The manager has to weigh up whether his positives outweigh his negatives. Many managers (how many clubs has he gone through?) have come to the conclusion that he is not.

I love football because it's a team game.

As far as I'm concerned the next manager should pick eleven players who are interested in playing as a unit and passing the ball. Being tactically astute, playing possession football and being patient and intelligent.

The best player this team has had in the past 13 years, after Roy Keane, is Damien Duff, make no mistake. We miss him like no other.
I read you exactly.

[Crosby87]

I keep drinking vodka and listening to Beth Ortons
Ooh child on youtube. Gay, I know. But its apt.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0tYkk_B-Cg