Republic of Ireland V Sweden - Friday, 6th September 2013 - World Cup 2014 Qualifier

[Stuttgart88]

At least Cox isn't being played out wide. Probably our best back 5 and front two. Happy enough with McClean and Walters with Brady and Pilkington as bench options. McCarthy is a no brainier and Whelan is always going to start under Trap, though we'd probably all prefer Hoolahan.

At least the bench has decent options. Clark can cover CB and LB. Brady. Pilkington and Hoolahan could all bring something accretive later. Cox is a competent but unexciting replacement up top, as is Sammon. Walters can be moved upfront too. McShane and O'Dea cause anxiety here but are usually solid enough. I'm sure Paul Green is high up in Traps thinking. Fair enough, I can see what he brings and I think most here now agree he's better than the more hysterical observers think.

I've forgotten, is Meyler in the squad?

7 out of 10 selection, maybe 8 at a push.

[Stuttgart88]

SF, Wouldnt McCarthy have been the anchor though?

[the doc]

Probably our best back 5

I beg to differ!

That said, I'm 100% behind the boys

Relax we will win this game, so enjoy the game and the craic late into the night.

COYBIG!

In Trap we trust.

[Stuttgart88]

I beg to differid be quite happy to see SSL in there. I should have said "best available".

Btw, I was out drinking with a mutual friend of ours last week.

[geysir]

Brady's still flunking the psyche test? Maybe Trap plays that one with a rigged deck?
last question being --- what's the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow?

[Stuttgart88]

African or European?

I like the bench options, and this includes Brady. The problem is that Trap rarely uses the bench well, or appropriately for the situation.

[Charlie Darwin]

Brady off the bench to replace McClean makes more sense than vice versa, but that's not necessarily an argument for picking the latter. One thing McClean will give us is 100% work rate and solid defence but I'd still go with Brady myself.

[Stuttgart88]

Didn't someone point out here that if McClean is confident he'll go outside but inside if he's not feeling confident? It'll be interesting to see how he starts.

I think a high tempo is important and I'm not sure Whelan is capable of dictating a high tempo in the middle. If nothing else McClean can at least contribute to a direct high tempo approach. But Brady is the more talented of the two and has the best delivery.

[Charlie Darwin]

Hopefully now that Whelan's spent a few months playing with Stoke's new style he'll be a bit more acclimatised to a high-tempo passing game and will be more comfortable showing for the ball. As for McClean, he's a wicked crosser when he's in the mood but, like Sunderland last year, I don't think we'll be able to get enough bodies in the box to make the best of it. I've been disappointed with Walters unwillingness to get in at the back post the way he does for Stoke. Even that hated Andy Keogh brings that to the table.

[geysir]

Now now, there's a lot of love for Andy but not an option in a qualifier.

Walters is going to shed a few kilos tomorrow.

[Charlie Darwin]

Haha, I didn't mean he was an option, I just meant that for all his lack of pace and inability as a winger he has never failed to arrive at the back post when a cross comes in. Even if the net result has been him missing a chance that would have been easier to score, a la the Uruguay friendly. I'd like to see more of that from Walters or McGeady or whoever we play on the wing.

[geysir]

True enough, Andy was there in the right place for that mishít pass from Wes in Sweden.

[Charlie Darwin]

Exactly. I don't think he'll ever be a Premier League-quality striker but he has the natural instincts of a striker even when he's on the wing. Robbie was the same when Rafa shoved him out wide for Liverpool. Walters is a better footballer but I think when he's on the wing he's so worried about doing his defensive job that he doesn't make those runs even though I'm sure Trap would like him to take the odd gamble.

[Stuttgart88]

Yep, I think that's a great point. Walters is in his element attacking the back post (remember Estonia away?) but not from his wide right role.

Remind me though: he was attacking the back post at Wembley in the second half. Was he playing upfront then, with Keane having gone off? Cox cleared a goalbound effort from Walters off the line! (from wide right? :) )

I need reminding cos my little fella had lost interest by then and was intent on beating me at rock, paper, scissors.

[ArdeeBhoy]

http://www.wsc.co.uk/forum-index/36-wsc-daily-discussion/833140-republic-of-ireland-face-crucial-world-cup-qualifiers

Bye & Ciao Trap.
You can GTF with the pension mind.

[Stuttgart88]

http://www.wsc.co.uk/forum-index/36-wsc-daily-discussion/833140-republic-of-ireland-face-crucial-world-cup-qualifiers

Bye & Ciao Trap.
You can GTF with the pension mind.I must read more Brian Glanville.

What struck me about the posts on WSC is much vitriol there is about what the players earn (by 1 poster!).

I was putting forward the argument to a friend recently that we're kind of in a third phase of the modern-ish era.

Phase 1 was when the players used to love the international break and give it everything. Phase 2 was when all of a sudden footballers were minted, our players were largely at top half clubs (Shay, Dunne, Finnan, Keane, Duff...) and the likes of Stephen Carr resented being made to watch DVDs by Brian Kerr and Stephen Ireland needed pink tyres on his Range Rover. Retirement in your 20s or early 30s was common.

I think we're beyond that now though. Phase 3 is when our players are rich but not hugely successful at club level and playing for Ireland is a bigger thing again. By and large these guys are very committed. Forde's "cat that got the cream" grin is infectious. They may be limited in talent by elite international standards, but a they're decent and actually likeable bunch. I think the broader public maybe hasn't appreciated this shift from phase 2 to phase 3 yet. The lazy overpaid footballers tag persists.

Discuss.

[geysir]

http://www.wsc.co.uk/forum-index/36-wsc-daily-discussion/833140-republic-of-ireland-face-crucial-world-cup-qualifiers

Bye & Ciao Trap.
You can GTF with the pension mind.
I got as far as "There is no true passion in this Irish side",
probably the most banal line anyone can offer about the state of the Irish team and the football they play.
What's the point of that link?
'yeah man, that team have no passion, no true passion'

edit, I see AB probably just posted the wrong link, and wanted to refer to the article , not the discussion.

the article link is
http://www.wsc.co.uk/wsc-daily/1166-september-2013/10202-republic-of-ireland-face-crucial-world-cup-qualifiers

[Charlie Darwin]

I must read more Brian Glanville.

What struck me about the posts on WSC is much vitriol there is about what the players earn (by 1 poster!).

I was putting forward the argument to a friend recently that we're kind of in a third phase of the modern-ish era.

Phase 1 was when the players used to love the international break and give it everything. Phase 2 was when all of a sudden footballers were minted, our players were largely at top half clubs (Shay, Dunne, Finnan, Keane, Duff...) and the likes of Stephen Carr resented being made to watch DVDs by Brian Kerr and Stephen Ireland needed pink tyres on his Range Rover. Retirement in your 20s or early 30s was common.

I think we're beyond that now though. Phase 3 is when our players are rich but not hugely successful at club level and playing for Ireland is a bigger thing again. By and large these guys are very committed. Forde's "cat that got the cream" grin is infectious. They may be limited in talent by elite international standards, but a they're decent and actually likeable bunch. I think the broader public maybe hasn't appreciated this shift from phase 2 to phase 3 yet. The lazy overpaid footballers tag persists.

Discuss.
That's a very nice breakdown, Stutts. I think it's a little harsh on the top players during the second era as I don't think they did much wrong but certainly they found it harder to adjust to the idea they were playing in a lesser side than they were used to. You see the likes of Berbatov having the same problem in recent years. To be fair to Zlatan, he's always made a difference for Sweden in spite of his own sense of self-worth.

[Grafter]

Ok lets assume we are still in the mix to qualify after Sweden tomorrow, what way do we want Germany to beat Austria? A narrow victory or an annihilation? Just wondering on an Austrian psychological/morale level with an eye to Tuesday match against us?

[Charlie Darwin]

Ok lets assume we are still in the mix to qualify after Sweden tomorrow, what way do we want Germany to beat Austria? A narrow victory or an annihilation? Just wondering on an Austrian psychological/morale level with an eye to Tuesday match against us?
Is there really a way to predict that? I'd imagine a narrow but eminently comfortable win for the Germans would be best, but you never know what a team will take inspiration from. If they're pegging themselves against the Germans, that could be worse than an annihilation.

[ArdeeBhoy]

I don't think I've ever cared about an Irish team less.
There are lots of things I respect about Trap, even Opus Dei FFS, but how he sets up his team to 'win' (especially v.better teams) is total b*llox and the reason why he must/will go.
A decade in the wilderness beckons, probably.

[Charlie Darwin]

We had a decade in the wilderness before Trap came along. I am no fan of the way he sets our team up and I think we could do better but the hyperbole needs to end at some point. We're better than we were under Kerr and that will stand to us. I shudder to think what Paul Jewell would have done to this team.

[ArdeeBhoy]

No worse than GT at home. Probably.

[Stuttgart88]

Ok lets assume we are still in the mix to qualify after Sweden tomorrow, what way do we want Germany to beat Austria? A narrow victory or an annihilation? Just wondering on an Austrian psychological/morale level with an eye to Tuesday match against us?An annihilation with Alaba sent off.

[Charlie Darwin]

No worse than GT at home. Probably.
I don't buy the argument that people are put off by Trap's football. It's an excuse. The crowds were tailing off during Kerr's era and even when crowds were good and McCarthy was playing good football the noise died down when we weren't getting the results. I remember the home game v Switzerland after WC2002 and the atmosphere (even before we conceded) was dire on the back of one loss in Russia, where almost every team loses. Irish football fans are generally only interested in success, unless they're on holiday in which case they'll sing the Fields as we are hammered 4-0.

[Stuttgart88]

I got as far as "There is no true passion in this Irish side",
probably the most banal line anyone can offer about the state of the Irish team and the football they play.
What's the point of that link?
'yeah man, that team have no passion, no true passion'

edit, I see AB probably just posted the wrong link, and wanted to refer to the article , not the discussion.

the article link is
http://www.wsc.co.uk/wsc-daily/1166-september-2013/10202-republic-of-ireland-face-crucial-world-cup-qualifiersAnytime I hear any punter or pundit bemoan a lack of passion I automatically dismiss their opinion as worthless. It's just a cliché. It's the inappropriateness of the word "passion" that bugs me. It also shows that the punter / pundit hasn't got the vocabulary or more specifically vision to define or add nuance to the actual issue. I hate the term "holding midfielder" as I think there are many different discrete types of defensive or deep-lying midfielders and I think it's a lazy and unperceptive term (notwithstanding a very credible definition of the term offered here a while back by Charlie D) but my biggest ire is reserved for people whose only comment on a team's performance is "they lacked passion". We didn't get a sniff of the ball against Spain. I'm sure many thought we lacked passion. We lacked Spain's ability.

[Charlie Darwin]

I think that's it. Talent and professionalism will always trump passion. Does anyone think Sebastian Schweinsteiger is the most patriotic player in the world? Does he want it more than Glenn Whelan? It's impossible to know, but we do know his mixture of ability and effort trumps whatever Glenn can bring, as was borne out by the game in Dublin. On the other hand, we've seen Berbatov completely ineffective against Ireland. He's obviously more talented than Caleb Folan, but who had a bigger impact on the games?

[Stuttgart88]

Irish football fans are generally only interested in success, unless they're on holiday in which case they'll sing the Fields as we are hammered 4-0.I'd say Irish sports fans, not just Irish football fans.

I did a sports marketing course a few years ago. Among the more interesting things I read about was research into the typology of sports fans (temporary fans, local fans, carefree casuals, committed casuals, and up to dysfunctional zealots) but probably THE most pertinent thing was the identified factors determining attachment to a team, including what they call BIRGing (basking in reflected glory - when you feel part of something successful by association). Underdogging is another identified factor but not as significant (that would include most of us :))

I debated this with my rugby mates lately. Correct me if I'm wrong, but since 1988 we have only failed to come second in a qualifying group 3 times (or was it more?). Under Kerr we came 4th but in the tightest of groups. Under Stan I still think we came 3rd - and with 17 points? I then researched our 6N performance and disregarding the horrors of the 90s our "golden generation's" 6N performance was pretty poor. OK, some second places were on PD behind France but only 1 Slam (versus Wales' 3) and I think only 1 Championship. I also calculated a 2 year moving average (say we won the 6N one year and came 6th the next, the 2 year average would be 3.5) because a footy campaign is over 2 years H & A, and the footy team did no worse than the rugby team during the last dozen years. Yet, the rugby team are perceived as winners - I'd say because of the provincial success and because we had a nice few years beating England, which is nice for the Mount Anville girls to gloat about down in Kiely's. BIRGing in other words.

This year we came 5th in the 6N, behind Italy. Did David Kelly savage them in The Indo?

(Yes, I effing well do have a bee in my bonnet about this!)

[Charlie Darwin]

The Six Nations is a bit more competitive than the average European qualifying group but I think the point stands up fairly well. The success of the provincial game in Ireland will always prop up interest in rugby here, whereas if Irish players aren't playing in the Champions League people will just shift allegiance to their clubs. There are many Irish fans of Liverpool et al who are more interested in whoever their adopted club signs than the success of their national side, or indeed the game on their doorstep. Which is their prerogative, of course, but a problem that rugby and GAA are able to neatly sidestep.

[wonder88]

McClean was good in the away game v Sweden. It is going to be difficult but I am hopeful of a win, 4 points out of these two games is a must. I think this squad are a decent group of good pros who do give their all for Ireland and I have great time for them, and I try to get to the friendly games when possible. I am glade the manager has gone for two strikers against Sweden as I believe there could be a few goals for us in the game. It is another question if we can keep it tight at the back.

[Fixer82]

Pretty good team. Biggest questions are over Whelan but he's always going to start.
Back four look solid on paper.
I still don't think Walters is a winger but there ya go.

COME ON IRELAND!!!

[gastric]

I'd say Irish sports fans, not just Irish football fans.

I did a sports marketing course a few years ago. Among the more interesting things I read about was research into the typology of sports fans (temporary fans, local fans, carefree casuals, committed casuals, and up to dysfunctional zealots) but probably THE most pertinent thing was the identified factors determining attachment to a team, including what they call BIRGing (basking in reflected glory - when you feel part of something successful by association). Underdogging is another identified factor but not as significant (that would include most of us :))

I debated this with my rugby mates lately. Correct me if I'm wrong, but since 1988 we have only failed to come second in a qualifying group 3 times (or was it more?). Under Kerr we came 4th but in the tightest of groups. Under Stan I still think we came 3rd - and with 17 points? I then researched our 6N performance and disregarding the horrors of the 90s our "golden generation's" 6N performance was pretty poor. OK, some second places were on PD behind France but only 1 Slam (versus Wales' 3) and I think only 1 Championship. I also calculated a 2 year moving average (say we won the 6N one year and came 6th the next, the 2 year average would be 3.5) because a footy campaign is over 2 years H & A, and the footy team did no worse than the rugby team during the last dozen years. Yet, the rugby team are perceived as winners - I'd say because of the provincial success and because we had a nice few years beating England, which is nice for the Mount Anville girls to gloat about down in Kiely's. BIRGing in other words.

This year we came 5th in the 6N, behind Italy. Did David Kelly savage them in The Indo?

(Yes, I effing well do have a bee in my bonnet about this!)

Geez, sorry I posted it now! When I look at the team the one player I feel who is sorely missed is Gibson. I am not trying to open up a new debate particularly before a massive game, but if he and McCarthy gel in midfield at Everton, I think it will highlight what we are missing.

Danny, you asked how I will watch the game, tonight I will find a stream and luckily Wednesday's game is on Setanta. I was just thinking then how lucky we Irish sport lovers abroad are to have Setanta, this weekend we get the GAA and some of the Rabo games, if only they would buy the rights to our home football games it would be perfect!

[Stuttgart88]

The Six Nations is a bit more competitive than the average European qualifying group but I think the point stands up fairly well. I'd say they're comparable. Between RWCs England and France often rebuild. Wales and particularly Scotland are very variable and Scotland have been outright week, and Italy, while competitive, should always be beaten. OK, there are no San Marinos, but there are no Germanys or Spains either - unbeatables in other words, and for a large part of the period in question we were the top seed equivalent (or close to it) in many pundits' minds.

[Kingdom]

Have the ticket threads gone?

[Straightstory]

GAA was always cool, but now its cool for the Rugby crowd to play GAA too!! 'GAA always cool', eh?
Horrible, brutish games (especially Gaelic football) with no guile, subtlety or intelligence. All bluster and brute force. A nasty organization with it's roots steeped in bigotry and sectarianism. (And the way the players' socks droop around their ankles looks particularly horrible).

[NeverFeltBetter]

I'm actually feeling OK about tonights game, which I would not have expected a few months ago. The team is nearly as good as it can be, and there are some decent options on the bench if Trap has the necessity (and the desire) to use them. Sweden aren't all that, and we've shown that we can contain their star man, and maybe even outplay them a bit if the team gets a chance. Trap has experimented a little in friendlies, and I do genuinely hope that we go for the win tonight.

I still just can't see the win though, simply because of Trap's record against sides of this level and at home. I think the win will have to come in Austria. Score draw.

[peadar1987]

'GAA always cool', eh?
Horrible, brutish games (especially Gaelic football) with no guile, subtlety or intelligence. All bluster and brute force. A nasty organization with it's roots steeped in bigotry and sectarianism. (And the way the players' socks droop around their ankles looks particularly horrible).

Wow, don't pull your punches mate, say what you really feel!

I don't particularly like the soccer-field-ploughing element of the GAA, but as far as sports go, I don't mind football or hurling, I'd watch them if they were on, but wouldn't sit at home in a darkened flat streaming Wicklow vs. Sweden on a Friday night.

[OwlsFan]

I don't buy the argument that people are put off by Trap's football. It's an excuse. The crowds were tailing off during Kerr's era and even when crowds were good and McCarthy was playing good football the noise died down when we weren't getting the results. I remember the home game v Switzerland after WC2002 and the atmosphere (even before we conceded) was dire on the back of one loss in Russia, where almost every team loses. Irish football fans are generally only interested in success, unless they're on holiday in which case they'll sing the Fields as we are hammered 4-0.

There are about 15/18k solid Irish fans who will support the team even if Billy Bingham is in charge. That's about the number who turned up for Charlton's first game against Wales and who turn up for "meaningless" friendlies now. Nothing has changed over the past 25 years. There are another 10k who are also devoted to the cause but can't always be relied on to turn up. The rest are the big time or event junkies. C'est la guerre. Doesn't bother me

I don't and never have got this apathy toward the team because of the manager. Your team is your team no matter what. Some of my friends hate Trap with a passion but still turn up and travel away to support Ireland.

As ever on the morning of a match it is the first thing that comes in to my head (after "when is the wife bringing up the breakfast"). Someone said to me recently that we haven't beaten major opposition at home since that famous game against Holland in 2001. A frightening statistic if true. Off to town soon to see the first Swedes strutting around the place and hoping they'll be heading back to Stockholm ""a small town in Norway" with their tails between their legs. I am to catch up with some of them later as I have a friend, who is a Swede and who lives here, and his mates are coming over. They call him a Quisling because he supports Ireland. I won't turn up (no pun intended) for the Swedes if we lose. I feel the tension already as I type this. I can't believe that our journey could be over if we lose this one. No, it won't happen. It will be a famous day. The knives are sharpened for Trap but somehow or other he'll pull the head out of the guillotine just before it comes hurtling down. He might still be stabbed but the wounds won't be fatal. It will be off to Vienna with the usual unreasoned hope and a draw in a game we should have won.

Time to put on the jersey and scarf and meet my friends downtown. My momma always told me there would be days like this...

[Bungle]

The Six Nations is a bit more competitive than the average European qualifying group but I think the point stands up fairly well. The success of the provincial game in Ireland will always prop up interest in rugby here, whereas if Irish players aren't playing in the Champions League people will just shift allegiance to their clubs. There are many Irish fans of Liverpool et al who are more interested in whoever their adopted club signs than the success of their national side, or indeed the game on their doorstep. Which is their prerogative, of course, but a problem that rugby and GAA are able to neatly sidestep.

My sons support Liverpool and Everton from our time living there (we lived all over England but while they loved football they never felt a connection to any clubs like they did from when we lived in Liverpool). I can relate to that myself because of all the cities I lived in, no one came close to the Scousers for likeability and friendliness. To this day, I cheer for both clubs. You cannot imagine what our house was like over the last few weeks of that transfer window, but I must admit that I was enjoying the drama myself on sky sports on Monday. It doesn't come close to the excitement I'll get tonight or on Tuesday, but a good night's drama all the same.

[Crosby87]

I wonder if Irish who were born in Ireland and moved abroad in their 20s are more into the team. Absence makes the heart grow fonder? B/C the bars will be packed today with Irish leaving work early in many cases to watch. Irish ex pats in here anyway are def into it with passion, though i do know one lad who only watches Rugby and openly roots against the soccer team which i don't get.

[tetsujin1979]

unconfirmed reports that the game tonight is sold out

[Yard of Pace]

Jaysus. 4 Swedes staggered past the office here on Harcourt Road about 45 minutes ago. Drunk as lords. They apprehended some poor office girl who was probably on her way to get a coffee in Starbucks. She looked terrified, though I could see they meant no malice to anyone. She managed to get on her way fairly sharpish. The lads staggered on, singing (roaring). Should be a cracking atmosphere tonight. I don't like Trap, I don't enjoy the games much, but I don't miss one because Ireland is Ireland.....CAN NOT WAIT to get out of work and hit the boozer and get down to the ground and give it plenty.

Ireland!
Ireland!
Show them what you've got!
Ireland!
Ireland!
We can beat this lot!

[BonnieShels]

unconfirmed reports that the game tonight is sold out

Lunchtime yesterday the FAI announced that there were only about 500 tickets left.

[Gather round]

There are lots of things I respect about Trap, even Opus Dei FFS...A decade in the wilderness beckons, probably

Knew ye'd be back in the bosom of the one true faith eventually AB. Will think of ye as John the Baptist from now on.


There are about 15/18k solid Irish fans who will support the team even if Billy Bingham is in charge

Good choice. He did qualify for three World Cups after all.

[BonnieShels]

We're gonna do it tonight!

I feel it in my waters.

Bear in mind though my waters are lit with Lemsip and Berocca.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Knew ye'd be back in the bosom of the one true faith eventually AB. Will think of ye as John the Baptist from now on.
WTF are you on about...
:eek:

[Supreme feet]

Decided to kill one of those tetchy, interminable pre-game hours by writing a preview for the blog.

http://anditscomethroughhere.blogspot.kr/2013/09/ireland-vs-sweden-preview.html

[geysir]

Since I found out that it doesn't have an effect on the team's performance whether I have a few beers or not during the game, I'll spend my pre-match minutes going to the off-licence and buy a few beers. But everybody else please observe your pre-match rituals with obsessive detail, we don't want to get reckless and dump superstition entirely, in one go. You just never know.

[Fergie's Son]

Starting to get warmed up for this. Surprising amount of interest in going to the pub to watch the match here in Chicago.

[wonder88]

Wish I was at the game tonight, tv will have to do instead. Hope and pray for a win, maybe 3-1 to us. Great to hear it is a sell-out, hope they all get behind this fine bunch of Irish players.