Dublin Decider [Archive] - Page 4

TonyD

23/08/2013, 7:50 PM

Maybe if you concentrated on the LOI it would grow instead of making snidey remarks about others who choose not to! Should we make snidey remarks towards Irish players who head across the water!

I do. They're all dead to me once they go. ;)

ArdeeBhoy

24/08/2013, 12:08 AM

And who did Celtic base their kit on?
Not a current LOI team...
;)

DannyInvincible

24/08/2013, 8:31 AM

Do Celtic's hoops have a specific origin or inspiration?

ArdeeBhoy

24/08/2013, 9:24 AM

Think they were 'stolen' from Hibernian, who'd based their own kit on Queens Park...

Originality was clearly an issue in Victorian times!

Mad Moose

24/08/2013, 9:55 AM

From the ground.

Incorrect on the last point.

God love ya Rafa but your reply is the reply of a defeated, lost and broken man. I recommend Berocca or a break from football maybe.

Mad Moose

24/08/2013, 9:57 AM

I do. They're all dead to me once they go. ;)

And can we put some embargo on Irish lads signing their own death warrant and heading to Wolverhampton Wanderers!!!!

DannyInvincible

24/08/2013, 10:31 AM

Think they were 'stolen' from Hibernian, who'd based their own kit on Queens Park...

Originality was clearly an issue in Victorian times!

According to this, it was Scotland and not Hibs who adopted Queen's Park's colours: http://www.theguardian.com/football/2005/nov/23/theknowledge.sport

Celtic's famous shirts were inspired by Scotland's first Irish club, Hibs, who wore the green and white hoops (and the Irish Harp) from their inception in 1875. But Queen's Park enjoy the best bragging rights, says Richard Johnstone - their colours were adopted by the Scottish national team. "Queen's Park instigated the first ever known international fixture when they played England in Glasgow on St Andrew's day in 1872," says the club's website. "The Scotland team comprised entirely of Queen's Park players, who wore their club jerseys - dark blue in colour, the same dark blue as worn today by the national team."

Queen's Park then wore the the dark blue still worn by Scotland today. So, from where did Hibs' orginal hoops emanate?

KK77

24/08/2013, 2:29 PM

God love ya Rafa but your reply is the reply of a defeated, lost and broken man. I recommend Berocca or a break from football maybe.

No that's someone who goes to LOI games!!!!!! Not sure i can recommend anything for that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Charlie Darwin

24/08/2013, 2:33 PM

That post clearly broke the board. And who did Belfast Celtic base their kit on...

Most Shams I've ever met think their kit is based on their bigger cousin's!
Bigger cousin? There is no real relationship between Rovers and Celtic beyond the odd friendly.

Belfast Celtic's shirt was based on the Glasgow Celtic shirt. Rovers originally played in green and white vertical stripes and decided to make them horizontal in homage to their Belfast brethren. Where Belfast Celtic got the inspiration from is their business.

Mad Moose

24/08/2013, 6:45 PM

No that's someone who goes to LOI games!!!!!! Not sure i can recommend anything for that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You don't need to recommend anything for something I love doing. Thanks though.

Nah Nah Nah Nah

25/08/2013, 1:51 AM

No that's someone who goes to LOI games!!!!!! Not sure i can recommend anything for that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I recommend you take your finger off the exclamation button

ArdeeBhoy

25/08/2013, 11:05 PM

Bigger cousin? There is no real relationship between Rovers and Celtic beyond the odd friendly.

Belfast Celtic's shirt was based on the Glasgow Celtic shirt. Rovers originally played in green and white vertical stripes and decided to make them horizontal in homage to their Belfast brethren. Where Belfast Celtic got the inspiration from is their business.

Hmm, you might just need to re-educate some Shams fans then...
:rolleyes:
They certainly believe otherwise. Though a little less introspection helps!

And BC, certainly didn't get their inspiration from another club on their island...

Charlie Darwin

25/08/2013, 11:22 PM

I don't really care what certain Shamrock Rovers fans think. All I can do is state the truth, which is that Rovers decided to change the directions of their stripes to show solidarity with Belfast Celtic.

Glasgow Celtic decided to adopt green and white hoops in 1903, in imitation of another Glasgow club. Whether Belfast Celtic decided to follow suit or if they had green and white hoops beforehand, I don't know, but I do know that Shamrock Rovers weren't looking at the Glasgow club when they made their decision.

ArdeeBhoy

26/08/2013, 12:29 AM

Hmm, seems a tad arrogant.

Plus Celtic stole their hoops from Hibs as Hibees will tell you and BC from Celtic...go figure.

Charlie Darwin

26/08/2013, 12:42 AM

How is it arrogant? Shamrock Rovers will always have closer links with Belfast than they will with Glasgow, and Glasgow will always have closer links with Belfast than they will Dubllin, and Belfast will always have closer links with Glasgow than they will with Dublin. It's just the way things are.

ArdeeBhoy

26/08/2013, 12:53 AM

Er, Ok. The arrogance is that plenty of Rovers fans over the years see it differently.

So clearly they're all wrong about wanting to have an affinity and sharing an identity with Celtic.

Charlie Darwin

26/08/2013, 12:57 AM

Why is that arrogant?

I have no problem with Rovers fans wanting an affinity with Celtic. I'm saying it is not reciprocated or historically accurate.

ArdeeBhoy

26/08/2013, 1:05 AM

It is because the majority in my experience see it differently and is definitely historically accurate in the last 25 years plus they don't care whether it's 'reciprocated', as they know it's pretty unlikely given their relative status.

Sean South

26/08/2013, 8:51 AM

Bohs have stronger connections with Celtic then Shams these days. Celtic fans from Glasgow regularly come over to Bohs games ;)

ArdeeBhoy

26/08/2013, 9:25 AM

Yeah that's the word on the street, though a few Bohs I know moaned about Celtic as they were seen as 'too pally' with the Shams.

marinobohs

26/08/2013, 11:58 AM

Yeah that's the word on the street, though a few Bohs I know moaned about Celtic as they were seen as 'too pally' with the Shams.Word on what street ? never heard of any connections between Bohs and celtic ( Bohs, like most Irish fans tend towards an affinity with Celtic). get a lot of travelling support in Dalymount this season especially since we started selling match tickets in temple Bar. Some from Glasgow but more from Germany Scandinavia etc (judging by match day experience not scientific knowledge). To be honest we will welcome any fans :party:

DannyInvincible

26/08/2013, 12:02 PM

Yes, yes, but all of this still doesn't get to the bottom of the origin of Hibs' hoops!

Sean South

26/08/2013, 12:37 PM

never heard of any connections between Bohs and celtic
It's mainly your casuals who have a links to the CSC

ArdeeBhoy

26/08/2013, 9:47 PM

Yes, yes, but all of this still doesn't get to the bottom of the origin of Hibs' hoops!
They copied Queen's Park...

DannyInvincible

26/08/2013, 10:34 PM

They copied Queen's Park...

Queen's Park never wore green and white hoops. They originally wore navy jerseys, which were later adopted by the Scottish national team, as Queen's Park players made up Scotland's entire first official international line-up in a game against England in 1872.

Charlie Darwin

26/08/2013, 10:46 PM

The Celtic wiki suggests that St Anthony's in Glasgow were the inspiration: http://www.thecelticwiki.com/page/Other+clubs+with++the+hoops?t=anon

ArdeeBhoy

26/08/2013, 11:01 PM

Except Danny, they were the first Scottish club to wear hoops. And possibly in the world.
http://www.historicalkits.co.uk/Scottish_Football_League/Queens_Park/Queens_Park.htm

Chas, it's a fair point, but loads of Celts & Hibees over the years have told me Celtic got it from them, as per below.
The other lot are chancers I reckon.
http://www.historicalkits.co.uk/Scottish_Football_League/Hibernian/hibernian.htm

Charlie Darwin

26/08/2013, 11:14 PM

Chas, it's a fair point, but loads of Celts & Hibees over the years have told me Celtic got it from them, as per below.
The other lot are chancers I reckon.
http://www.historicalkits.co.uk/Scottish_Football_League/Hibernian/hibernian.htm
How reliable is the Celtic wiki, do you know? I'll admit I'm fairy ignorant on Celtic history (I'd support them ahead of anyone but Rovers but I wouldn't consider myself a fan) and I'm sure you know a lot more Celtic fans than I do, but those I do know are very clued in on their history and I don't think they'd let info like the St Anthony's link remain on their own wiki unless it was pretty solid.

From the link you posted, Hibs definitely wore green and white hoops, but it was for three years and they reverted to green shirts 9 years before Celtic were founded, and 24 years before they themselves adopted the hoops. If they were taking influence from anyone, I'd say the likelihood is they took after a club that was wearing hoops in 1903.

ArdeeBhoy

26/08/2013, 11:34 PM

Maybe, but the anecdotes work for me just as well. There's actually not that much The 'Tic and Hibees agree on.
This appears to be one of the few things on which they do, but am happy to stand corrected!

Charlie Darwin

26/08/2013, 11:59 PM

Ah, but maybe it's one of those situations where the Celtic and Hibs fans are happy to just agree because it suits both of them.

I know it might seem on here like I am hostile to Celtic but it's only from the point of view that I don't like seeing Irish people supporting a team from overseas and overlooking their own league. I have no problem with Celtic fans who support their local clubs, of whom I know many. I know being from Ardee you probably have no particular affinity for Dundalk or Drogheda and a pan-Irish team might make more sense to you, but it's just frustrating when the domestic league suffers because a team from across the water is so popular.

Like I said, if Celtic are playing I'll cheer them on and hope they do well. I have no malice towards them, they're just not my club.

ArdeeBhoy

27/08/2013, 12:23 AM

Heh, I can totally understand why Celtic and other big clubs p*ss off LOI fans, though sometimes their self-righteous attitudes don't help.
Any big club has its' fair share of eejit fans and Celtic are no different, albeit they're more 'political' than most.

But if Rovers or any other LOI club had 50k+ regular fans, the chances are they too would have attracted a few eejits too...

That said, have a soft spot for most LOI clubs, it's just the fans on places like this who can be a tad tedious at times, though most are fine in the flesh!

Charlie Darwin

27/08/2013, 12:36 AM

My problem isn't with eejit fans, it's with people who support Celtic or an English club when they haven't produced a top player in decades. I mean Nottingham Forest and Wolves don't have any Irish links but they've produced the two best Irish players in the past 25 years. I don't begrudge anyone supporting any foreign team - it's the lack of joined-up thinking. Celtic are absolutely crying out for an Irish team to link up with, but there's nobody they can link up with because Irish people don't support Irish football. Celtic signed McCourt and McGinn from Derry and they've been sniffing around plenty of players since, but there are no formal links because Derry don't have enough fans to produce the quality of coaching they need. McClean was an abberation - he succeeded because he did so much work away from the club that he made himself succeed. Ditto for Rovers, Bohs, Dundalk or whoever. As long as Irish people are only interested in elite football (or, in the case of Celtic or Leeds or whoever, second-tier football) we will never produce the best players.

galwayhoop

27/08/2013, 7:11 AM

McClean was an abberation - he succeeded because he did so much work away from the club that he made himself succeed.

???

Can you explain this bit please??

ArdeeBhoy

27/08/2013, 10:00 AM

Hear the passion Chas, don't follow the logic. For me football seems to follow a more irrational cyclical pattern and in the case of a small country like Ireland with other major competing sports, it feels a lot more random that we produce decent players or not.

nigel-harps1954

27/08/2013, 10:47 AM

I think clubs here would be smart not to link up with a club like Celtic.
For all the money or such involved, you also run the risk of alienating or annoying a proportion of support with such a link.

ArdeeBhoy

27/08/2013, 12:30 PM

Yeah, a proportion of a thousand people...wow.

There are pros and cons, but Shams or Harps/Doire would be probably be their best option.

And before you ask me for an explanation, ask a few active Irish Celtic fans...

Charlie Darwin

27/08/2013, 12:46 PM

???

Can you explain this bit please??
He didn't have great coaching but he did extra work off the field that most players wouldn't and reaped the rewards.

Hear the passion Chas, don't follow the logic. For me football seems to follow a more irrational cyclical pattern and in the case of a small country like Ireland with other major competing sports, it feels a lot more random that we produce decent players or not.
You don't follow the logic that better coaching produces better players? There's nothing random about it. Ireland is full of youngsters who haven't fulfilled their potential because they don't settle in England or don't get the right coaching at home. Countries like Croatia produce world class players constantly, and it's not by random chance.

nigel-harps1954

27/08/2013, 2:02 PM